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[Guide] Wellomancer Build

necro pve dagger power guide

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#31 snethss

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:56 PM

im intrigued by the warhorn comments.   I find it a decent option for skirmish builds.

Could someone explain any traits that synergize with the warhorn?  Im just not seeing any.  I see some mention here of Locust Swarm bonuses, but don't quite follow.   You get swiftness and then a locust swarm that follows you and cripples foes.  That's all it does afaik.

#32 takarazuka

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:22 PM

View Postsnethss, on 09 October 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

im intrigued by the warhorn comments.   I find it a decent option for skirmish builds.

Could someone explain any traits that synergize with the warhorn?  Im just not seeing any.  I see some mention here of Locust Swarm bonuses, but don't quite follow.   You get swiftness and then a locust swarm that follows you and cripples foes.  That's all it does afaik.

Locust Swarm also does damage every second that it is up.  It's not very clear in the tooltip that the cripple and damage both last for 10s, but they do and for every tick of damage it procs Vampiric as well.  There is also a Tier 2 curses trait that decreases the cooldown of warhorn skills by 15%.

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#33 prince vingador

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:51 PM

ok..i dont understand why u dont roll a warrior insted...u dont use minions and u dont like the conditions,u prefer power and want to fight so close to mobs, and i think u not using the necros real power.why u use well of corruptions again? Would be better well of darkness imo.any way gl.

#34 takarazuka

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:57 PM

View Postprince vingador, on 09 October 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

ok..i dont understand why u dont roll a warrior insted...u dont use minions and u dont like the conditions,u prefer power and want to fight so close to mobs, and i think u not using the necros real power.why u use well of corruptions again? Would be better well of darkness imo.any way gl.

Well of Darkness is totally usable, but it's a defensive well with no damage output and I am playing more glass cannon-style with Well of Corruption and Suffering for pure damage.  If I wanted to, I could easily change it out for pulsing blinds and it would still work but I lose damage.  It also sounds like you are trying to shoehorn necros in the "condition is the only viable spec" corner which is what builds like this and others are trying to debunk.  I am out there in the world doing events and fighting.... I see conditionmancers and minionmancers and I see how long it can take them to bring down targets while I am mowing through them with no problem.  I have another 80 necro in full carrion/rampager exotics and he kills FAR slower than my powermancer.  So, unless you have some concrete numbers, videos, or some other evidence that I am not using necros real power, please refrain from making assumptions.

Minions are mostly more of a pain than they are worth at the moment for necros.  Some people do use them and like them, but I have tried and really disliked them.  I only use Bone Minions for their explosion... their life expectancy is very low with me heh.

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#35 Phenn

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:28 PM

Question on sigils and runes. Which did you find most helpful at early and late levels? Did you run 3x2's or a full set of one kind? I'm assuming sigils are user-preference since there a quite a few viable choices, but I'm curious nonetheless.

#36 takarazuka

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:46 PM

View PostPhenn, on 09 October 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

Question on sigils and runes. Which did you find most helpful at early and late levels? Did you run 3x2's or a full set of one kind? I'm assuming sigils are user-preference since there a quite a few viable choices, but I'm curious nonetheless.

Leveling up I really didn't focus too much on the perfect rune setups, but I generally tried to keep ones with vitality and power on them OR the divinity runes if I saw them.  Once I hit 80 and started gathering my final gear is when I had to really decide on runes.... and it's still a sore spot for me heh.  I have decided to focus on precision/crit damage runes since that gives you the bigger hits more often.  Right now my auto attack chain #3 is critting for ~3500 and I want to increase that.

At the moment I am actually using 6/6 Superior Rune of the Dolyak to boost my survivability since most of my gear is Berserker with no vitality or toughness.  However, I am changing my gear setup soon and getting 3 pieces of karma gear from Orr with power/toughness/vitality and will replace the Dolyak runes with 5 Superior Rune of the Ranger and 1 Superior Rune of the Air.  Kind of makes me mad since I spent 7g on the Dolyak runes too heh... oh well!!  

For sigils... it is really your choice as you said.  My dagger actually has a Superior Blood sigil for HP leeching, but I may trade it out for the fire blast AOE soon since my crit is getting a lot higher.  I considered the stacking ones like power or precision and, while another 250 power or precision is nice, they won't always be viable if you die a lot or are only attacking a single event boss and cannot get the stacks up.

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#37 prince vingador

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 04:18 PM

View Posttakarazuka, on 09 October 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:



Well of Darkness is totally usable, but it's a defensive well with no damage output and I am playing more glass cannon-style with Well of Corruption and Suffering for pure damage.  If I wanted to, I could easily change it out for pulsing blinds and it would still work but I lose damage.  It also sounds like you are trying to shoehorn necros in the "condition is the only viable spec" corner which is what builds like this and others are trying to debunk.  I am out there in the world doing events and fighting.... I see conditionmancers and minionmancers and I see how long it can take them to bring down targets while I am mowing through them with no problem.  I have another 80 necro in full carrion/rampager exotics and he kills FAR slower than my powermancer.  So, unless you have some concrete numbers, videos, or some other evidence that I am not using necros real power, please refrain from making assumptions.

Minions are mostly more of a pain than they are worth at the moment for necros.  Some people do use them and like them, but I have tried and really disliked them.  I only use Bone Minions for their explosion... their life expectancy is very low with me heh.
if u want damage why u use the staff and not axe? U losing damge there since your dot are low.i only gave u my opinion since 1 vs 1 a dot vs a dd necro would win most of the time,so dont think a dot necro cant kill fast,its actually the oposite.

#38 takarazuka

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 04:30 PM

View Postprince vingador, on 09 October 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

if u want damage why u use the staff and not axe? U losing damge there since your dot are low.i only gave u my opinion since 1 vs 1 a dot vs a dd necro would win most of the time,so dont think a dot necro cant kill fast,its actually the oposite.

I am not entirely sure you have even looked over my entire build.  This is not a DD necro build and the staff is only a secondary weapon used for AOE situations where wells aren't sufficient.  Even condition builds use staff in large events for marks and support, so I am not sure what you mean.  Axe is universally understood to be pretty worthless outside a few situations like some dungeon builds and MAYBE PVP.  

So far you have given no reason why this build isn't effective, however you have shown that you are throwing out baseless and random comments.  You also have avoided answering my questions about why you think certain abilities are useless and go for others instead.  Also, a condition vs a DD necro toss up?  Okay?  What does that have to do with anything here?  This is not a PVP forum nor the place to discuss who would win in a 1v1 with two specs that have no relevance to this vampiric build.

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#39 Antemortem

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 04:37 PM

View Postprince vingador, on 09 October 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

ok..i dont understand why u dont roll a warrior insted...u dont use minions and u dont like the conditions,u prefer power and want to fight so close to mobs, and i think u not using the necros real power.why u use well of corruptions again? Would be better well of darkness imo.any way gl.

I think most of us would use minions more if they weren't complete junk.  I only use them when I'm soloing, otherwise, I don't use them at all.  The AI isn't very good, and most of them die too fast.  Well of Corruption provides damage, Well of Darkness does not.  It's situational.  Would you rather have the 5 seconds of blind, or the damage?  I usually use the Well of Corruption, because my Plague gives me 20 seconds of blind.

View Postprince vingador, on 09 October 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

if u want damage why u use the staff and not axe? U losing damge there since your dot are low.i only gave u my opinion since 1 vs 1 a dot vs a dd necro would win most of the time,so dont think a dot necro cant kill fast,its actually the oposite.

Staff is pretty much essential for all Necro builds.  It adds so much utility, why not use it?

#40 prince vingador

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:13 PM

i have the impression the op wants to kill things fast,and i was just trying to tell him that dot kills faster.go to the mists stack power and kill a golem,then try the same with condition damage.end of story

#41 takarazuka

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:37 PM

View Postprince vingador, on 09 October 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

i have the impression the op wants to kill things fast,and i was just trying to tell him that dot kills faster.go to the mists stack power and kill a golem,then try the same with condition damage.end of story

That is your point-of-view and, unless you have actually tried it and have screenshots or timers to back it up, is baseless.  Sounds like you feel necros have no use outside being condition-based, but it's being shown more and more than a properly played powermancer is just as strong if not stronger.  This thread is not here for people to start trolling and arguing about which spec is better than others... if you want to complain please visit the official forums and join them there in that.

This thread is for the discussion of vampiric power builds and improvements on them and I would appreciate if you would respect that.

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#42 prince vingador

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:30 PM

this would be my last post to u ,because u asking advise on your build,i see u care about raw damage and kiling things fast.its a fact that u kill a golem much faster with condition damage,second u take a bad well to pve'great in pvp' just for the damage'like u told me' u take staff and u say its to help the damage..well if it was to kite i would understand,but then dagger would be a bad choice so i advise u to take the axe...i pointed u very strong flaws in your overal build.take my advise or dont take it,i just tried to help a felow necro.

#43 Drekor

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:03 PM

View Postprince vingador, on 09 October 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

if u want damage why u use the staff and not axe? U losing damge there since your dot are low.i only gave u my opinion since 1 vs 1 a dot vs a dd necro would win most of the time,so dont think a dot necro cant kill fast,its actually the oposite.
Axe damage is *ing awful.

Tests have already been run that using Axe #2 on cooldown then filling with auto with full zerker gear will bring you up to par with scepter auto attack(with full zerker gear). It's atrocious. The staff does comparable damage, at double the range and offers incredibly utility as well.

#44 sabboy

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:15 PM

What secondary weapon set would work well with this build since im in my 25's and using a staff seems like all i use it for is the 5 for fear

#45 takarazuka

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:58 PM

View Postsabboy, on 09 October 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

What secondary weapon set would work well with this build since im in my 25's and using a staff seems like all i use it for is the 5 for fear

You don't need a secondary weapon set other than staff as no others work.  Scepter/dagger is for conditions, axe is useless overall and relegated to a few dungeon builds for support only, and dagger/dagger doesn't provide much synergy with vampiric.  Your staff is very useful in these regards:
  • Used in large events with packs of mobs - #2 and #3 help you tag a lot of mobs faster and it more efficiency than running around trying to place wells.  It's also very handy in fights where being in melee is riskier than it is worth all the time.  You can jump in and do some melee damage and them jump back out and attack at range when necessary.  Learning when to use staff and weapon swapping becomes second nature and utilizing staff skills increases your effectiveness in any spec.
  • #4 is a blast finisher and can be used to proc area blind on Dark combo wells.  Well of Blood is a Light combo and the blast finisher gives you retaliation.  It is also a condition transferring tool, although atm it is bugged (possibly) and you still retain the conditions, but the target gains those conditions as well.
All necro builds will have staff as your secondary.  It is extremely useful and becomes your best friend in time once you learn the benefits and when to properly use them.

Edited by takarazuka, 09 October 2012 - 08:00 PM.

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#46 Sieghildr

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:02 PM

You would take Spiteful Marks over Reaper's Might? 15 seconds of Might sounds pretty great, but I haven't really tested it.

I was going to recommend traiting into Wells granting Protection instead of Banshee's Wail but it looks like you covered that.

#47 takarazuka

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:05 PM

View PostSieghildr, on 10 October 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

You would take Spiteful Marks over Reaper's Might? 15 seconds of Might sounds pretty great, but I haven't really tested it.

I was going to recommend traiting into Wells granting Protection instead of Banshee's Wail but it looks like you covered that.

Life Blast is fairly pathetic... long cast time and low damage compared to auto attack on dagger.  Almost 4 times the damage in the same amount of time.  You get 10 stacks of Might from Blood is Power which is superior to Reaper's Might by far and does a LOT more damage.

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#48 Sieghildr

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:15 PM

View Posttakarazuka, on 10 October 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Life Blast is fairly pathetic... long cast time and low damage compared to auto attack on dagger.  Almost 4 times the damage in the same amount of time.  You get 10 stacks of Might from Blood is Power which is superior to Reaper's Might by far and does a LOT more damage.

Why not both? Blood is Power's stacks aren't up all the time. Why wouldn't you BiP then DS when that Might runs out, use one Life Blast, then pop back out and start Daggering again with 15 seconds more of Might? With BiP's recast, this leads to around 5 seconds of no might and 25 seconds of Might per BiP cycle.

Edited by Sieghildr, 10 October 2012 - 08:18 PM.


#49 takarazuka

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:23 PM

View PostSieghildr, on 10 October 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

Why not both? Blood is Power's stacks aren't up all the time. Why wouldn't you BiP then DS when that Might runs out, use one Life Blast, then pop back out and start Daggering again with 15 seconds more of Might? With BiP's recast, this leads to around 6-7 seconds (counting time it takes to use a Life Blast) of no might and 25 seconds of Might. Per BiP cycle.

Life Transfer scales with Might so using BiP then going in to DS and Life Transfer is a massive bonus for you.  With Spiteful Spirit you have 3s of retaliation which is how long it takes to cast Life Transfer which does an absurd amount of damage at that point with 10 Might up (my highest was 3900 per tick).  You're getting more benefit to yourself with retaliation so damage you would have taken to your Life Force is instead reflected back and add to that the damage from Life Transfer.

Reaper's Might only gives 1 stack of Might and it isn't efficient to sit in DS trying to get enough stacks to make it count.  Wasting that extra second or so it takes to give 1 Might versus 3s of Retaliation + 10 Might + Life Transfer and then jumping back to normal form to dagger seems a more potent combo.

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#50 Sieghildr

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:29 PM

View Posttakarazuka, on 10 October 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

Life Transfer scales with Might so using BiP then going in to DS and Life Transfer is a massive bonus for you.  With Spiteful Spirit you have 3s of retaliation which is how long it takes to cast Life Transfer which does an absurd amount of damage at that point with 10 Might up (my highest was 3900 per tick).  You're getting more benefit to yourself with retaliation so damage you would have taken to your Life Force is instead reflected back and add to that the damage from Life Transfer.

Reaper's Might only gives 1 stack of Might and it isn't efficient to sit in DS trying to get enough stacks to make it count.  Wasting that extra second or so it takes to give 1 Might versus 3s of Retaliation + 10 Might + Life Transfer and then jumping back to normal form to dagger seems a more potent combo.

Right, but I was asking whether or not you felt Spiteful Marks gave you more than Reaper's Might would, not Spiteful Spirit. So 1 stack of Might for 15 seconds vs. 10% more damage when you use a staff. I think if it's just one stack of Might per Life Blast, then if you use staff with any regularity perhaps SM would indeed be better.

Edited by Sieghildr, 10 October 2012 - 08:30 PM.


#51 takarazuka

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:33 PM

View PostSieghildr, on 10 October 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

Right, but I was asking whether or not you felt Spiteful Marks gave you more than Reaper's Might would, not Spiteful Spirit. So 1 stack of Might for 15 seconds vs. 10% more damage when you use a staff. I think if it's just one stack of Might per Life Blast, then if you use staff with any regularity perhaps SM would indeed be better.

Ah ok sorry about that!! :)

Yes, since it only gives 1 stack of Might it's not a very useful trait unless you are doing a DS-centric build.  Since staff is used a lot for large-scale events, melee-unfriendly bosses, and big packs of mobs, having 10% more damage on your marks is very useful.  You could also pick up Training of the Master for 30% more damage on your minions if you use Flesh Golem and Bone Minions as supplemental damage.

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#52 Xodus

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:26 AM

takarazuka can you post your conditions build aswell please, i would love to see it:D

#53 Phenn

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:01 AM

View Posttakarazuka, on 10 October 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

Life Transfer scales with Might so using BiP then going in to DS and Life Transfer is a massive bonus for you.  With Spiteful Spirit you have 3s of retaliation which is how long it takes to cast Life Transfer which does an absurd amount of damage at that point with 10 Might up (my highest was 3900 per tick).  You're getting more benefit to yourself with retaliation so damage you would have taken to your Life Force is instead reflected back and add to that the damage from Life Transfer.

I was running around Harathi Hinterlands today and couldn't get over how powerful this exact combo is. Especially on the "Defend the Point" events. When the wave comes runnin' in, tag one of them with BiP, drop the damaging wells, and pop Locust Swarm, then DS and Life Transfer. Most of the time the wave would die before the rest of the defenders would make it to the battle.

I can't get over the durability, flexibility and power of this build. The thing that makes it stand out for me from other DPS classes is the flexibility. You literally have a million different ways to take on a mob. You're not locked in to one attack pattern. Once you can get the Master tier traits for Blood Magic, durability really jumps up there, too. Pulling in HP from everywhere.

#54 takarazuka

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:21 PM

View PostXodus, on 11 October 2012 - 01:26 AM, said:

takarazuka can you post your conditions build aswell please, i would love to see it:D

I haven't been working much on my condition spec since I started playing powermancer, but this is the current build I have on him -

http://www.gw2db.com...|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|
  • Signet of Undeath is only up for passive Life Force generation.  Condition specs have terrible LF granting abilities and this is a good solution for that.  You could also grab targeted wells trait from Curses and put a well in that slot if you wanted to if LF isn't a concern for you.
  • I am really big on Vampiric, so all of my builds go at least 15 or 20 in to Blood Magic for that.  This one I went 20 and grabbed dagger mastery for the cooldown reduction.
  • If you wanted to do a DS-condition build, take the points out of Spite and put them in to Soul Reaping and grab the DS abilities that would be beneficial.
At some point I will be going back and working more on my condition spec.  I have been getting too complacent using powermancer and I need to keep both sides of the coin up.


@Phenn - Thanks and glad it is working so well for you!!  I will admit when I first did the build I had serious doubts.  All of the naysayers on the forums made me question if this would be viable or not and it has surpassed my expectations.  Hopefully, as more people learn how to play in specs like this, the whole "condition is the only viable spec" will diminish.  Condition is the easiest spec, but by far not the only viable one!

Edited by takarazuka, 11 October 2012 - 02:23 PM.

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#55 Phenn

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:03 PM

View Posttakarazuka, on 11 October 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Hopefully, as more people learn how to play in specs like this, the whole "condition is the only viable spec" will diminish.  Condition is the easiest spec, but by far not the only viable one!

I was skeptical, too, if only because it seemed a little backwards for a light-armor caster class to jump into the chaos of melee. In a lot of ways (and this has been said before here and other places), the Necromancer doesn't really "fit" in any one particular stereotype. What they do incredibly well is to put up (or out ?) multiple sources of damage.

With conditions that's obvious--primary damage may come from bleeds, but you'll also have auto attacks, poison, etc. doing damage at the same time. The weakness debuff exploits this multiple damage and it compounds quickly.

But with a power build, it's even more...well, powerful. The reason that this build packs a punch (against all appearances) is that the Powermancer puts out a ton of different damage sources. With wells, Locust swarm, minions, Life Transfer, and a powerful auto attack, there is always at least two sources of damage hitting a target at once. This is what I meant about flexibility. With the Powermancer you can pick and choose which of these damage sources you'll put up at any given time--or you can dump them all at once.

When people start thinking of the Necro as designed to put out damage from as many sources as possible, hopefully "Which builds are viable?" should be less of an argument. It's all about maximizing damage output sources.

So far that's my take on it.

Edited by Phenn, 11 October 2012 - 03:09 PM.


#56 takarazuka

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:18 PM

View Postsnethss, on 09 October 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

snip....

Just noticed your name btw... Snethss.  Did you play in Aion in a guild Corruption with Tamachi and Sorrowbane?

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#57 General Typhus

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:51 PM

View Postprince vingador, on 09 October 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

ok..i dont understand why u dont roll a warrior insted...u dont use minions and u dont like the conditions,u prefer power and want to fight so close to mobs, and i think u not using the necros real power.why u use well of corruptions again? Would be better well of darkness imo.any way gl.


Terrible post on so many levels.

Edited by General Typhus, 11 October 2012 - 07:51 PM.


#58 Piteous

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:04 PM

I have the same as you in the traits on the second build but I really didn't like the dagger, it's not the damage, the damage is awesome with dagger. I have went back to my scepter and even though it doesn't have the damage the dagger does with my staff and scepter I can kill most mobs before they get to me. If there not dead when they reach me they soon are when I hit my wells.

I'm no expert believe me I don't know what I'm doing half the time but I'm just not the melee type I like the range I get with scepter. I know this goes against the grain everyone will say OMG scepter with a power build you idiot lol idc. I still get great bleeds.

#59 takarazuka

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:08 PM

View PostPiteous, on 11 October 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

I have the same as you in the traits on the second build but I really didn't like the dagger, it's not the damage, the damage is awesome with dagger. I have went back to my scepter and even though it doesn't have the damage the dagger does with my staff and scepter I can kill most mobs before they get to me. If there not dead when they reach me they soon are when I hit my wells.

I'm no expert believe me I don't know what I'm doing half the time but I'm just not the melee type I like the range I get with scepter. I know this goes against the grain everyone will say OMG scepter with a power build you idiot lol idc. I still get great bleeds.

You could probably pick up targeted wells instead of the warhorn cooldown since you are doing ranged with scepter.  Someone else mentioned that Scepter#3 does really good damage with Power in another thread and it made me wonder if it would be a decent alternative for people wanting to do a ranged well power build.  Not everyone is comfortable in melee range and, if scepter is indeed a decent alternative, could provide another avenue for powermancers.

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#60 Piteous

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:13 PM

I think it works pretty good. I love your post btw I have learned a lot reading them. There is a post in these forums somewhere that compares damage between the weapons but I can't remember what the difference was between dagger and scepter, but it was low.

Edited by Piteous, 11 October 2012 - 08:20 PM.






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