135 replies to this topic

[takarazuka]

This guide is currently being updated and revamped - please excuse any randomness you may see while I am working on it over the next couple of days.

FYI:  The title of this thread is Dagger/Focus, but I have adjusted the build to be a dagger/warhorn setup instead.  Warhorn has proven to be a much better off-hand choice with the control and higher damage output.  Focus can still be used as this is what the build was originally built around, but I will be focusing on warhorn primarily.

Updates:
3/19/2013 - Added ascended items
3/11/2013 - Updated gear spreadsheet to reflect new setup.
3/9/2013 - Added BuildCraft link
3/7/2013 - Updated gear section, added in rotation/priorities, moved weapon/trait overview
3/6/2013 - Minor tweaks and clarification changes
3/5/2013 - Overall revamp of the guide and added in updated armor spreadsheet (still not final)


THE BUILD

30/20/0/20/0

BuildCraft Numbers

The build is built around Spite and Blood Magic.  It is a hybrid between a glass cannon build and a vampiric... utilizing strong traits from both to allow for some survivability while also having high damage.  It does require some skill to play since you are in melee range and need to learn to actively dodge attacks and use your /warhorn to its full effect.

Pros:

• Fast, high damage attacks along with wells make for short duration fights
  
• Several healing abilities help with HP regen while in combat
  
• No concern over bleed caps and other condition-based classes minimizing your damage
  
• Durability and survivability
  
• High crit chance, crit damage, and power

Cons:

• Melee range combat is not favorable to cloth-wearers
  
• Wells on cooldown cause your overall damage to decrease and fights will take longer

Here is an overview of abilities and traits with this build and what they do for you:

Trait Lines and Choices

Spoiler

30 Spite:

• The core of any power build.  I don't think I know of any pure powermancer build that does not go a full 30 points in to this tree.  You have a large variety of trait choices and 300 power is a large chunk of damage boost for your attacks.
  
• Adept level - Spiteful Spirit is the only real trait that is useful for us here (unless you are playing with a focus then look at Spiteful Talisman).
  
• Master level - Reaper's Might should be picked up.  This gives utility to your Life Blast while in Death Shroud and lets you maintain Might stacks.
  
• Grandmaster level - Close to Death.  No question.  It is a very strong trait and will make you hit harder and see normal and even veteran mobs start to melt.

20 Curses:

• We are mostly here for the 200 precision we gain.
  
• Adept level - There isn't much here, but you could pick up Hemophilia or Terror.  Terror will obviously not be useful on bosses or champions, but Hemophilia will lengthen the few bleeds you have.
  
• Master level - Focused Rituals, Master of Corruption, or Banshee's Wail.  We get some nice utility from this level.  You have several choices depending on what you need done.  If you need to go ranged for a fight, pick up Focused Rituals so you can still throw down wells.  Banshee's Wail is useful most of the time to make your warhorn more effective.  Master of Corruption reduces the cooldown on abilities like Blood is Power.

20 Blood Magic:

• You gain 200 vitality and 200 healing from this tree.  We also gain the all important minor trait Vampiric. This is a core of this build and lets you gain life with every hit and damaging ability you use.
  
• Adept level - Bloodthirst is key here.  It makes your life siphons from any ability and your passive abilities 50% more effective.  This means bigger healing ticks and easier time staying alive.
  
• Master level - Ritual Mastery is another key trait.  This reduces the cooldown on all wells by 20%.  Wells are essential to the build and you need them up as often as possible.

Weapons - Dagger/Warhorn Primary

Spoiler

Dagger: This fast attacking weapon does some amazing damage and has very useful abilities for being in melee range.  I went with this for leveling, especially, due to Life Siphon.

• Necrotic Slash - your auto attack and does a fair amount of damage.  You gain some life force from it on the second and third hits.  You will be doing a fair amount of auto attacking in the build when wells and Locust Swarm is on cool down.
  
• Life Siphon - Don't be afraid to use this as often as you need to.  The heal isn't spectacular, but paired with smart play and some dodging you won't need to heal much anyways.  It does a decent amount of damage as it ticks.  Best used with the next ability so you can heal uninterrupted.
  
• Dark Pact - your lockdown.  Great for ranged mobs that like to run away or for melee mobs that you need to get away from to heal up.  Paired with Life Siphon, it is a great way to control a fight and heal up without getting hit.

Warhorn: Amazing control and some AOE potential.  A good necromancer has this weapon at the ready and can stop big incoming attacks and move around much faster to avoid others.

• Wail of Doom - Simple... a 2 second daze with a 30s cooldown.  Don't use this ability randomly... watch for charge-up abilities like knockdowns and or heavy hitters and interrupt them!!  It can be a life saver many times over.
  
• Locust Swarm - a hidden gem almost.  Gain swiftness, gain life force, cripple enemies, AND does ticking damage each second for 10s.  This is amazing in AOE situations and lets you run around in quick circles auto attacking and dodging attacks while hitting everything... regardless of what you are focused on attacking.

Utility Wells

Spoiler

• Well of Suffering - one of the first wells you should put down at any time.  The vulnerability stacking is going to make you hit harder and do a lot more damage - 2% per stack and stacks 2 at a time for 5s.
  
• Well of Corruption - pretty straight forward.  It does a decent amount of damage and converts boons on the enemy in to conditions.  In PVE you mostly are using this for damage since few mobs use boons, but in PVP it is amazing!
  
• Well of Darkness - if you want to play a bit more defensively, this is your friend.  Pulsing blinds keep you from taking damage and let you attack without worrying about getting stunned or knocked down.

Other Utilities

Spoiler

• Consume Conditions - the only heal you should be using... no arguments.  Cleanses conditions and heals... use it or die.
  
• Blood is Power - The meat of our build here.  Stacks might up to 10 stacks for 12s and puts a bleed on the target.  We aren't condition you say?  The build has 30 points in Spite (30% condition duration) and 20 in Curses (20% condition damage) so we do get benefits from conditions.  This is a very powerful ability that is useful beyond measure.
  
• Spectral Armor - a possible utility that can be used if you know that you are going to need more damage mitigation.  Not useful in every situation so plan ahead.  If you need to use this, drop Well of Corruption and grab this.
  
• Bone Minions - arguably a decent ability to use.  Their Putrid Explosion does a fairly good chunk of damage and they are only on a 20s cooldown.  Again, use in place of Well of Corruption if you want to add some variety to your gameplay.
  
• Signet of Spite - Increases power by 90 at level 80.  A nice signet to use on boss fights where other utilities will not have any effect and be useless.
  
• Signet of the Locust - 25% increased run speed... get where you need to go faster.  Don't forget to switch over to something else before combat though!!

Death Shroud

Spoiler

Use of death shroud is a lesson that all necromancers need to learn early on.  It is both our second health pool to work with as well as a very powerful tool for offense when all of your wells are down and you are ready for really pulling out the numbers.

• Life Blast - A slow nuke auto attack that hits harder the more life force you currently have.  Juggle use of this ability with the next ability to maintain maximum damage while you are in Death Shroud.  I have this traited to add Might on hit.
  
• Life Transfer - an AOE attack that siphons damage on surrounding targets and replenishes your Life Force.  Ideally, use this at around 40-50% LF depending on the number of mobs around you to put you back near full.  This saves your normal health bar and lets you do more damage with Life Blast.

There are several possibilities for variations in the build and it still being viable.  As I test them and find if they work well enough, I will post them at the bottom of the guide.


STATS AND GEAR

Here is a spreadsheet of the gear that is best applicable to this build.  It focuses on survivability with Soldier/Knight armor and damage with Berserker weapons and trinkets.  Even with the defensive oriented gear, you still pack a punch with a 57% critical chance, 64% critical damage rating, 2250 power, and a 5% static damage increase.  A 13.45% damage reduction modifier from armor and over 21,000 (more if you have WvW buffs) make you a pretty potent foe to deal with!



**Note that I put toughness and defense rating (armor rating) together in one column.  This is your total armor that dictates your damage reduction.  The sharpening stone calculation ONLY comes from toughness though so - 916 base toughness + 285 toughness from gear = 1,201 * 5% = 60 and 1,188 vitality * 3% = 36 for a total of 96 power from the stone.

Ascended Gear
For ascended gear, I went with Berserker-distribution of stats on the items.  This maintains the numbers from our exotic gear with a slight boost from the stats from ascended.  Remember that ascended items are not socketed with jewels, but have two sets of stats on them (like a permanent jewel on the second part) and then can have an infusion added.  If you plan on running fractals a lot, you're going to need to start upgrading your ascended items using the method found on Dulfy's awesome guide HERE.

Upgrading items does not change the base stats, but adds agony resistance.  You also have defensive, offensive, and (on amulets) utility slots.  The choice of which slot-type to pick is up to you since the infusions do not add much of the type of stat to make a difference.  You are mostly going for anything that adds agony resistance here.




Gear Specifics

Spoiler

Sigils
Our first sigil we should get is Superior Sigil of Force.  This is a flat 5% increase to our damage.  The reason we are not looking at on-kill stacking sigils is due to the fact that you ARE going to go down in dungeons and lose your stacks.  When this happens during a boss fight, that sigil is now useless and you gain no benefit from it.  The Force sigil is static and you always gain benefit.  If the mechanics of on-kill stacking buffs changes in the future and you only lose them on being killed (not downed) then it may be beneficial to pick one up.

Our second sigil is dependent on your playstyle and desire:

• Superior Sigil of Strength - 30% chance to proc Might on critical hit
  
• Superior Sigil of Blood - 30% chance to steal life on critical hit
  
• Superior Sigil of Earth - 60% chance to cause Bleed 5s on critical hit
  
• Superior Sigil of Frailty - 30% chance to apply Vulnerability on critical hit

Runes
Superior Rune of the Eagle and Superior Rune of the Ranger are the preferred runes for the setup.  Either one works, but you only need 5 of them.  The 6th slot bonus is useless to necromancers.  Instead, slot a Ruby Orb.  It gives 20 power, 14 precision and 2% critical damage.  This nets you 20 power, 165 precision, and 10% critical damage.

An alternative to doing 5 expensive runes is to use all Ruby Orbs.  If you put these in all of your armor you will gain 120 power, 84 precision, and 12% critical damage.


Back Piece
The back piece I recommend starting off with is the quest reward from the third to last mission in your personal story.  Depending on which path you take it will be Blast from the Past, Ships of the Line, or The Steel Tide.  Go for the Berserkers Spineguard of the Berserker.  It is a Masterwork quality back item, but with the exotic ruby jewel.

Obviously you will want to work on the ascended back item, but I will cover ascended items in another section.


Nourishment
You have a couple of choices here as well:

• Bowl of Butternut Squash Curry Soup - requires a fair number of mats, but gives 100 precision and 10% critical damage
  
• Bowl of Butternut Squash Soup - somewhat less expensive to make and you still get 80 precision and 8% critical damage
  
• Plate of Truffle Steak- 100 power and 70 precision.  Hardest part is getting the slabs of red meat, but they are extremely cheap on the TP.
  
• Peach Tart - one I use a lot while grinding or doing easier dungeons/fractals.  Gives 26% magic find and 60 power and extremely easy to make.
  
• Hardened Sharpening Stone - gives utility buff and fairly simple to make

Ascended Items
COMING SOON!!

HOW DOES IT WORK?

This build is all about direct damage, critical hits, and power-based attacks.  No waiting to stack a certain number of bleeds or poisons... no praying your minions get the idea that they something should do.  You are in control and can dish out all the damage as fast or slow as you want.

Your utility setup is flexible depending on the situation.  There are two abilities that are somewhat core to the build - Well of Suffering and Blood is Power.  Your third slot is where you can get creative and gives you some versatility in fights.

Basic Rotation and Priorities

• Your first goal is to drop wells.  You need to start ticking damage and having Well of Suffering apply vulnerability to your target.  Toss down Well of Corruption about halfway through WoS to stagger them some and have a longer duration of wells ticking on the target.
  
• Once your wells are down, prioritize your abilities based on the situation.  Are you fighting a veteran or boss?  Throw on Blood is Power to gain Might.  In a nice aoe situation?  Pop Death Shroud and Life Transfer to melt their health bars down.  You have a nice array of abilities to use in various situations so just take in to account how long the fight will last and what you are fighting and go from there.
  
• Use warhorn to interrupt abilities like knockdowns which are highly aggravating.... I am looking at you Risen Farmers in Orr.
  
• Ranged mobs tend to try and run away to put distance between you.... use your lockdown ability on the dagger to root them and rush in for the kill.
  
• Don't be afraid to use Life Siphon on your dagger.  It actually does a LOT of damage and you can gain some decent health back from it (though not nearly as much as your actual heal).

ALTERNATE BUILDS:
Defensive Build moving points in Curses to Death Magic.  This alternate build focuses more on survivability using retaliation and protection buffs from wells.  Your damage will be slightly lower with losing precision, but makes you a bit tougher to kill.

http://intothemists....R1;3JF04JF045Bt


ADDITIONAL POWER/CONDITION AOE BUILD WITH NOTES BY KELEVRA_86
http://www.guildwars...90#entry2122881

Edited by takarazuka, 19 March 2013 - 02:29 PM.

[Erebus]

This seems like an interesting build, thanks for posting it. I am currently debating between a power build, which would probably be this one because I hate the axe builds, and a condition/well build.

The only thing I'm worried about is, comparing this to a condition build, this would have you in melee range a lot more. This seems dangerous in many situations. Also, would this be viable in WvW? How does the damage compare to a condition build?

Edited by Erebus, 28 September 2012 - 10:54 PM.

[nzac]

Focus is a terible weapon for multiple enemies, especially normal mobs.

Vulnerability stacking is only worth it if you manage to kill 1 or more hits quicker. Stacking 9 on a group event boss so everyone does more damage is where focus 4 is very good.
When you are versing mobs it just does not work the bouncing splits so only end up with 3 stacks of 3. The benifit of 3 percent extra damage will more often than not be lost in the overkill from final attack or bleed tick.

5 is slow to cast and single target and is again ok vs a tough single targets but just weak vs mobs again. It is not a good gap closer either.
You already have access to far better gap closer: Dark Path followed by Dark Pact if needed.
The necro has plenty of other psudo gap closers avalible or you can swich weapons for that group of mobs.

[takarazuka]

I am going to update the post a bit after playing with warhorn in offhand all night.  I have found it to be MUCH better and really understand why people lean towards that rather than focus.

[zmetek]

Hi, I cant open your build. May oyu please use another calculator for your traits? Thaks.

[deitiesforce]

I can't seem to open the build website. Is it possible incan view it somewhere else?

[takarazuka]

The post has been updated with a new build and information..... I have since tested, and loved, Warhorns over Focus.  You have a lot more control over fights and Locust Swarm has proved to be a very potent tool.

[Copenhagen23]

Can you link your build with a different build calculator? That website hasn't worked for me all week.

[takarazuka]

Try that - it was still linking back to GW2 Skills for some reason instead of the GW2DB.

[Phenn]

Question concerning newbies using the build:

How viable is this before you can unlock some of the key traits? Would you recommend using a different build for early leveling before specing into this one?

If not, how would you go about traiting during early leveling? (We're talking lvls 10-30 here.)

At the moment I've been leveling with a standard conditions build--but I like the idea of a power build. Early on, swapping out equipment isn't expensive, but I'd like to get an idea of when to "commit" to a particular build.

Edited by Phenn, 02 October 2012 - 03:22 PM.

[takarazuka]

I used this build from level 1 all the way through 80.  The mobs in the early zones (1-25 or so) are easy to kill even without a robust trait line set up.  Here are some tips for early levels:

• Prior to level 40 and the Tier 2 line, put points in the trees in this order Spite -> Blood Magic -> Curses. Afterwards, focus on Blood Magic to 20 points and then finish out the Spite tree all the way to 30.  Grabbing Vampiric is a must as soon as possible for the constant health leeching.
  
• Grab Well of Suffering and Bone Minions as your early utility skills.  The Putrid Explosion from the minion does very nice damage and will last a long time while you level up and get the other skills.
  
• Use warhorn effectively and will save your life a LOT!  Gathering up mobs and dazing them gives you time to put up Locust Swarm so you get ticks of health with Vampiric and plenty of damage going around.

[oldweasel]

takarazuka, on 02 October 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

I used this build from level 1 all the way through 80.  The mobs in the early zones (1-25 or so) are easy to kill even without a robust trait line set up.  Here are some tips for early levels:

• Prior to level 40 and the Tier 2 line, put points in the trees in this order Spite -> Blood Magic -> Curses. Afterwards, focus on Blood Magic to 20 points and then finish out the Spite tree all the way to 30.  Grabbing Vampiric is a must as soon as possible for the constant health leeching.
  
• Grab Well of Suffering and Bone Minions as your early utility skills.  The Putrid Explosion from the minion does very nice damage and will last a long time while you level up and get the other skills.
  
• Use warhorn effectively and will save your life a LOT!  Gathering up mobs and dazing them gives you time to put up Locust Swarm so you get ticks of health with Vampiric and plenty of damage going around.

In another thread you mentioned swapping out bone minions with BiP, are you recommending that switch for your build above?

[takarazuka]

oldweasel, on 02 October 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

In another thread you mentioned swapping out bone minions with BiP, are you recommending that switch for your build above?

Remains to be seen... someone presented some math to show that over 1 minute BM damage is MUCH higher but based it on base level bleed damage with no condition damage included.  I am not a theorycrafter, but I am venturing a guess that total damage from the 350 additional power on your attacks and wells coupled with the bleed from BiP is going to be higher.

I may sit down and try to work on that later...

[Goldian]

Hey there, new to the game just did some pvp with some classes to get the hang out of the game.
Starting tomorrow My gf and I will start playing together, she will be ranger.

One of the classes I consider to play with her is the Necromancer. Ive been keeping an eye on different topics of different classes for a few days now. I dont like any condition builds from what ive read so If i go necromancer I will probably take a minion build or this build.

Tho I read that since the recent patch BLOOD IS POWER is now kind of mandatory in a power build for necros, may I know why you dont have it ( i see you updated your post the first of october)

Sorry if I missed it somewhere, still new to all this, my highest char is lvl 2.

Tips are more then welcome aswell!

As for the rest, kudos to the guide, itll be the one Ill most likely follow if I decide to be a necro

[takarazuka]

We've been having a little debate on whether Blood is Power is actually beneficial in it's numbers compared to Putrid Explosion (the secondary ability from Bone Minions) - http://www.guildwars...ith-the-design/

Short version - over a one minute period you do 9,552 damage with the Explosion compared to 6,260 damage from Blood is Power's bleed.  However, my argument is the cumulative effect of the 10 stacks of might for 350 power total increases all of your abilities and is an overall boost in damage beyond the Explosion damage.

[Goldian]

Alright, thanks for your response. Also saw in a post made before mine that he mentioned the skill already, I failed to realise that BIP = Blood Is Power.

Would you thus suggest me to roll a Human Necro , following this build while my gf will be playing a Ranger?

[takarazuka]

If you're looking to play something other than condition then yes.... minion builds are not very attractive at the moment due to the extremely poor AI.  Just one thing on this build... I have been so focused on PVE that I have yet to go in to WvW with it (I do not do sPVP at all) to see how it does.  I cannot say whether it will be any good in a WvW situation.... I do plan on testing it soon though and playing around with it more.

This build and trying to create a viable all-around playstyle with it has become a goal for me... hopefully it continues to do well for anyone who tries it out!

[Goldian]

takarazuka, on 03 October 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

If you're looking to play something other than condition then yes.... minion builds are not very attractive at the moment due to the extremely poor AI.  Just one thing on this build... I have been so focused on PVE that I have yet to go in to WvW with it (I do not do sPVP at all) to see how it does.  I cannot say whether it will be any good in a WvW situation.... I do plan on testing it soon though and playing around with it more.

This build and trying to create a viable all-around playstyle with it has become a goal for me... hopefully it continues to do well for anyone who tries it out!

Well I will most likely do your Power build. Is it really bad if someday I would take a condition build for the necro to duo with her ranger?
As for SPvP I will have other classes for that, im mainly looking for a class to level up with her 1-80 wich is also viable in WvWvW later (Wich by then i can figure out builds for it)

Thanks for your help!

So now its a close call between a Power necro + Ranger or a Thief (D+D/SB) + Ranger. No looking for a "OP" Duo, but something fun that also synergise well together.

If I do roll necro, you will probably hear more from me!

[Xenomortis]

If your power is truly 1216 (as indicated by the build calculator), BiP (= 10 stacks of might) increases your damage output by 29%.

Spoiler

Damage = (Weapon Damage × Power × Skill damage) / target armour
D = W × P × S / A
P = 1216
Power bonus from Might (M) = 0.375 × level + 5
Level = 80 => M = 35

P* = P + 10M = 1216 + 350
D* = W × P* × S / A = (1216 + 350) × W × S / A
D* = D + 350 × S × W / A
D* = D + 350/1216 × D
D* = (1216+350) × D / 1216

350 / 1216 ~= 0.29
So D* = 1.29 × D

i.e. D* (damage after might) is 29% more than D

Compare that increase to the relative increase (which I've not calculated) you get from bone minions (which strikes me as very unreliable). You need to adjust for uptimes too.

I would look at replacing Well of Corruption as well; it's not great in PvE. I'm not sure what to replace it with though; Signet of Spite's bonus is probably not worth the tradeoff since 90 power after BiP is going to be meagre.

I'm not sure 20 in Curses is really worth it; yeah the precision bonus is nice, but Toughness is very desirable for a Necro. The increase to Boon duration also adds seconds onto BiP's might.

Edit:
Definitely Lich Form over Flesh Golem; that shit's laughable.

Edited by Xenomortis, 03 October 2012 - 05:28 PM.

[gingexg]

After doing some testing in the mists and reading a few posts.  I really like the idea behind this build, but I have to agree with xenomortis.  On paper anyway, it seems if your going to put points in curses you may as well do the hybrid spec.  Personally I am not a fan, I find that focusing on both stretches you to thing and makes survival very difficult.  

this is purly theory craft and designed for PVE but I was thinking

http://www.gw2db.com...|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|

Gear woudl focus on power/precision and vit/toughness.  Couldnt think of a third skill, I picked epidemic because chances are unless you are truly solo, conditions will be on the enemy, might as well spread em.  Plus you can time it with your heal so you get healed for more.

[takarazuka]

Xenomortis, on 03 October 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

If your power is truly 1216 (as indicated by the build calculator), BiP (= 10 stacks of might) increases your damage output by 29%.

Spoiler

Damage = (Weapon Damage × Power × Skill damage) / target armour
D = W × P × S / A
P = 1216
Power bonus from Might (M) = 0.375 × level + 5
Level = 80 => M = 35

P* = P + 10M = 1216 + 350
D* = W × P* × S / A = (1216 + 350) × W × S / A
D* = D + 350 × S × W / A
D* = D + 350/1216 × D
D* = (1216+350) × D / 1216

350 / 1216 ~= 0.29
So D* = 1.29 × D

i.e. D* (damage after might) is 29% more than D

Compare that increase to the relative increase (which I've not calculated) you get from bone minions (which strikes me as very unreliable). You need to adjust for uptimes too.

I would look at replacing Well of Corruption as well; it's not great in PvE. I'm not sure what to replace it with though; Signet of Spite's bonus is probably not worth the tradeoff since 90 power after BiP is going to be meagre.

I'm not sure 20 in Curses is really worth it; yeah the precision bonus is nice, but Toughness is very desirable for a Necro. The increase to Boon duration also adds seconds onto BiP's might.

Edit:
Definitely Lich Form over Flesh Golem; that shit's laughable.

Never go off the build calculator's stats.... it shows stat numbers without gear.  If you equip the Berserker's amulet in the equipment tab, it gives you the proper stats.  Power is at 2014 (though your actual mileage may vary depending on actual gear) with it on - I will post my actual stats tonight when I get home from work.

The primary reason for curses is to grab Banshee's Wail for your warhorn.  Locust Swarm is a very strong ability and the more you have it up the better.  You also get a small damage increase from Barbed Precision, though it isn't amazing.  Aside from toughness in Death Magic, what else is there that outweighs that?  You could get the protection ability from wells and retaliation... defensive abilities. Yes, it could be an alternate to this build if you wanted to go more defensive - it is totally doable.  In that case here is an alternate "defense" build:

http://www.gw2db.com...|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|

So now you have a choice between survivability or pure offense.  Personally, I have not had the need for an extra 200 toughness and the defensive traits, but others may find they could use it.  Play around with both and see what works best for you in that case.

In regards to WoC... why replace it if you don't even know yourself what to replace it with?  Assuming you switch out Bone Minion for BiP, Bone Minion doesn't produce the same damage in the cooldown time of -20% recharged Wells.  There are no other high damage skills so just keep what works.

On Flesh Golem - he works great for solo play where you have no need for a 240s cooldown elite like Lich Form or Plague.  No he isn't the most intelligent and he runs off a lot, but he does some decent damage and the knockdown is very handy.  In group events and bosses... definitely Lich Form no doubt about that.

gingexg, on 05 October 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

After doing some testing in the mists and reading a few posts.  I really like the idea behind this build, but I have to agree with xenomortis.  On paper anyway, it seems if your going to put points in curses you may as well do the hybrid spec.  Personally I am not a fan, I find that focusing on both stretches you to thing and makes survival very difficult.  

this is purly theory craft and designed for PVE but I was thinking

http://www.gw2db.com...|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|

Gear woudl focus on power/precision and vit/toughness.  Couldnt think of a third skill, I picked epidemic because chances are unless you are truly solo, conditions will be on the enemy, might as well spread em.  Plus you can time it with your heal so you get healed for more.

A hybrid spec won't work at all as you said... it's too spread out.  In my spec you only gain 200 condition damage from Curses so it's not enough to warrant calling it "hybrid".  The gear you mentioned is exactly the same as I did for the power build so what's the difference?  The only change from the build I am using at the moment (includes BiP) is you added in Epidemic which is a possibility with BiP.  I may try it out tonight... could be interesting.

Edited by takarazuka, 05 October 2012 - 02:51 PM.

[takarazuka]

I have been (not working) today and thinking about gear choices for this build and alternatives people might be looking for.  While the Berserker/Ruby (jewelcrafting) set is ideal, it is somewhat of a glass cannon setup.  You have a ton of power/precision but totally lack any toughness/vitality that people seem to be looking for as well.  My current gear setup is a mix of Knight (power/precision/tough) and Berserker (power/precision/crit dmg) with a mix of similar stats on the accessories.

I am looking at all of the Orr temple gear you buy with karma - the 42k pieces.  At first I was kind of "eh" with but I printed out a spreadsheet of stats and started thinking about it.  If you picked up all of the Power/Toughness/Vitality armor and then used Ruby accessories (power/precision/crit dmg), I think it would be a nice trade-off and make a very viable, tanky set for you.  The temple pieces I am looking at are (there are no pants with those stats on them):

• Armageddon - chest, gloves, feet
  
• Arcon - shoulders
  
• Mortal - helm, chest, feet
  
• Whispering - helm, feet

I ran a quick spreadsheet to look at the raw numbers between the two sets of gear (mine that I am using and the temple set).  This does not include weapons since I am only looking at armor.  In the end the total numbers were:

SET 1 (current):
Power - 547
Precision - 404
Toughness - 176
Vitality - 64

SET 2 (proposed):
Power - 680
Precision - 304
Toughness - 176
Vitality - 176

SET 3 (Berserker stats only)
Power - 680
Precision - 480
Toughness - 0
Vitality - 0                                                                                                                                  

In all, I gain more power than I lose in precision and gain more vitality.  Toughness stays the same.  This assumes masterwork level accessories with the same brilliant jewel as the actual accessory (the brilliant ruby jewel adds 18 power and 12 precision to the item), and using exotic Berserker's pants to complement.

Edited by takarazuka, 05 October 2012 - 08:43 PM.

[Phenn]

I just switched to this power build and am loving it. I played levels 1-20 using the standard conditions build and, though I had great survivability, it took forever to take anything down. 1v1 situations were even worse.

Sooooo I decided to try the power build and was blown away. I couldn't get over how quickly wells take down enemies. Literal night-and-day with kill speed.

I'll be sticking with the power build for now. I'll admit I was skeptical, but even at low-levels it's pretty powerful.

[takarazuka]

Glad you enjoy it!!  I am constantly refining it and making improvements and testing things based on discussions across the forums.  Right now I am looking at dropping the 20 points in Curses and putting them in to Soul Reaping (even though i said in another thread Soul Reaping was kind of eh, I will admit to my own misjudgments).  Picking up the 25% HP locust swarm, 50% spectral armor, and 15% redux on DS abilities (more life transfer!!) seems pretty nice.  Going to have to look and decide if losing 200 precision is worth it, though gaining 20 crit damage % is REALLY nice.

EDIT: updated the guide a bit and reorganized it some.

Edited by takarazuka, 08 October 2012 - 07:40 PM.

[Phenn]

takarazuka, on 08 October 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

Right now I am looking at dropping the 20 points in Curses and putting them in to Soul Reaping (even though i said in another thread Soul Reaping was kind of eh, I will admit to my own misjudgments).  Picking up the 25% HP locust swarm, 50% spectral armor, and 15% redux on DS abilities (more life transfer!!) seems pretty nice.  Going to have to look and decide if losing 200 precision is worth it, though gaining 20 crit damage % is REALLY nice.

This I am wondering. I really struggled with the value of the Curses line to this build apart from the precision. Let me know what you end up deciding--'cause I do rely on crits for procs on sigils, etc. But if it's not worth it, there are definitely lines that seem to synergize with the build better.

[takarazuka]

If you drop the 20 points in Curses, thereby losing 200 precision, you lose 9.45% crit rating.  Depending on your current crit rate this is either not too major or it's gonna hurt.  I am trying to keep 45%+ on my crit rate right now and not go below that.... crits are a big part of your overall damage as a powermancer.  

I think, in the end, it's up to you and your playstyle with the build.  Going in to Soul Reaping would be a nice benefit for DS and going in to Death Magic is great for defensive abilities from wells.  Keeping points in Curses is purely offensive.... lower cooldown on warhorn, Barbed Precision, higher crit chance.

[masmer]

takarazuka, on 08 October 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

If you drop the 20 points in Curses, thereby losing 200 precision, you lose 9.45% crit rating.  Depending on your current crit rate this is either not too major or it's gonna hurt.  I am trying to keep 45%+ on my crit rate right now and not go below that.... crits are a big part of your overall damage as a powermancer.  

I think, in the end, it's up to you and your playstyle with the build.  Going in to Soul Reaping would be a nice benefit for DS and going in to Death Magic is great for defensive abilities from wells.  Keeping points in Curses is purely offensive.... lower cooldown on warhorn, Barbed Precision, higher crit chance.

Here's a couple things to keep in mind when NOT going 30 into precision as power.

1. obviously you lose around 10% visible crit
2. you lose the trait that gives 5 seconds of fury entering death shroud (I double tap it just for the buff)
3. Tier 3 minor trait gives 2% damage per debuff on target, in dungeons this is on average 8-10% damage.
4. You lose the 25% chance to apply weakness on crit, which is key in addition to the shroud proc and dagger 5 to keeping weakness up on champions. Otherwise you require a shortbow thief to do that.

I feel the points to sacrifice are either 30 into soul reaping if you want perma fury (to compensate for bad groups or for solo play, scales down badly though) or 30 into power for +200 power, +20% damage vs 50% and below, which is better in balanced team setups with team fury. In my eyes 30 in precision is a requirement mostly because of the t2 and t3 minors.

Edited by masmer, 09 October 2012 - 02:33 AM.

[takarazuka]

masmer, on 09 October 2012 - 02:33 AM, said:

Here's a couple things to keep in mind when NOT going 30 into precision as power.

1. obviously you lose around 10% visible crit
2. you lose the trait that gives 5 seconds of fury entering death shroud (I double tap it just for the buff)
3. Tier 3 minor trait gives 2% damage per debuff on target, in dungeons this is on average 8-10% damage.
4. You lose the 25% chance to apply weakness on crit, which is key in addition to the shroud proc and dagger 5 to keeping weakness up on champions. Otherwise you require a shortbow thief to do that.

I feel the points to sacrifice are either 30 into soul reaping if you want perma fury (to compensate for bad groups or for solo play, scales down badly though) or 30 into power for +200 power, +20% damage vs 50% and below, which is better in balanced team setups with team fury. In my eyes 30 in precision is a requirement mostly because of the t2 and t3 minors.

A 30 Spite/30 Precision is an entirely different build than what I have here.  You are no longer doing a vampiric-style build, but a raw damage build.  It is entirely viable and I support it, but it isn't the focus of my build here.

Also you seem to not have not read any of my original post or looked at my build at all.  The build is 30 Spite, 20 Precision, and 20 Blood Magic.  I already have 30 in to Spite with the major traits for the build, so what are you talking about?  Also are you talking about teams in terms of PVP or dungeons?  This build won't do well in sPVP most likely and may also be weak in WvW since you are reliant on being in melee unless you stick to staff.  I have done WvW with it and it isn't too bad, but that's my opinion on it.

So in the end.... 30 in to Precision is fine, but you lose what this build is about.... Vampiric and wells for self-support and damage.  This build is about you and not necessarily about your team and what is perfect for them.

Edited by takarazuka, 09 October 2012 - 02:42 AM.

[masmer]

takarazuka, on 09 October 2012 - 02:37 AM, said:

The build is 30 Spite, 20 Precision, and 20 Blood Magic.  I already have 30 in to Spite with the major traits for the build, so what are you talking about?  Also are you talking about teams in terms of PVP or dungeons?  This build won't do well in sPVP most likely and may also be weak in WvW since you are reliant on being in melee unless you stick to staff.  I have done WvW with it and it isn't too bad, but that's my opinion on it.

So in the end.... 30 in to Precision is fine, but you lose what this build is about.... Vampiric and wells for self-support and damage.  This build is about you and not necessarily about your team and what is perfect for them.

I'm talking entirely dungeons. I'm saying that you don't want to sacrifice curses really and that the points you sacrifice should either come from spite or soul reaping depending on what you're going for.

[takarazuka]

There are a lot of variations on the power build - you can easily create one for dungeons specifically that caters to teamwork and support.  However, this build is more suited for solo and DE content in the world.  I have run dungeons with it and done just fine with no problems, but it may not have be 100% team efficient.  

If you want a pure dungeon power build, then by all means put one up.  I know people have been looking for one that is purely for dungeons and offers a lot of support.  I am not inclined to do so since I haven't ran anything other than THIS particular vampiric build.

I have updated the text of the guide to state the ideal conditions for this build and a note on dungeons just so people are clear and know what to expect.

Edited by takarazuka, 09 October 2012 - 03:55 AM.