135 replies to this topic

[takarazuka]

Piteous, on 11 October 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

I think it works pretty good. I love your post btw I have learned a lot reading them.

Thanks!!  I try to be helpful and open-minded when it comes to others' ideas.  I feel like we are all learning different things about the necro all the time and finding new tricks and tools that have great combos we didn't think of!

[takarazuka]

So I messed around a bit last night after talking to others here about the scepter as an alternative to the dagger.  While it is not ideal for power builds, it does the job well enough since the attack power we have is so high and the wells make up for the loss in damage.  I think it's a decent trade-off for those wanting to do a power build, but not have to be in melee range.

[Piteous]

takarazuka, on 12 October 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

So I messed around a bit last night after talking to others here about the scepter as an alternative to the dagger.  While it is not ideal for power builds, it does the job well enough since the attack power we have is so high and the wells make up for the loss in damage.  I think it's a decent trade-off for those wanting to do a power build, but not have to be in melee range.

Actually, today I played around with the dagger again I love the damage it has.

[Donkulous]

Dagger is best, people that don't like melee - I don't get it. Necro's can shred stuff so fast with so little risk that it doesn't even seem fair. I mean compared to warriors I blow through mobs - I can hordes of mobs and never have to worry about getting killed thanks to DS and Plague.

I max power and precision, and just well it up. And while I'm talking about wells - I've used the bone minions - and while there is nice synergy with dagger / aoe blinds blast finisher - I love well of darkness - it's so OP. You can pretty much kill most mobs before they can hit you.

I take multiple vets  solo with this set up and don't sweat it.

[takarazuka]

Donkulous, on 13 October 2012 - 01:00 AM, said:

Dagger is best, people that don't like melee - I don't get it. Necro's can shred stuff so fast with so little risk that it doesn't even seem fair. I mean compared to warriors I blow through mobs - I can hordes of mobs and never have to worry about getting killed thanks to DS and Plague.

I max power and precision, and just well it up. And while I'm talking about wells - I've used the bone minions - and while there is nice synergy with dagger / aoe blinds blast finisher - I love well of darkness - it's so OP. You can pretty much kill most mobs before they can hit you.

I take multiple vets  solo with this set up and don't sweat it.

I got out of the habit of using it once Blood is Power was changed and had Might stacks added to it.  I suppose I could change out Well of Corruption for Darkness, but the extra damage is nice as well.  I need one more utility slot and it would be perfect ugh!!

[chronicler]

Sadly gwdb drops me plane 0-0-0-0-0 build with no options selected. Could you be so kind as duplicating your build at http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ or some other site?

[takarazuka]

chronicler, on 13 October 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

Sadly gwdb drops me plane 0-0-0-0-0 build with no options selected. Could you be so kind as duplicating your build at http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ or some other site?

Sure try this.... these build editor links can be a real pain sometimes heh. http://gw2skills.net...g7xhesruOHp44lB

[Draegan]

Why not use Scepter/Dagger instead of Staff?  How often are you using staff in this build?

[takarazuka]

Draegan, on 15 October 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Why not use Scepter/Dagger instead of Staff?  How often are you using staff in this build?

Explain the use of scepter/dagger in this build.  Staff is used for marks and quick tagging in events, blast finisher for wells, and ranged attacks when melee isn't feasible.  Scepter/dagger is mostly for conditions and has a very weak direct attack and not a lot of utility when used with a power build.  I had suggested using a scepter instead of dagger MH if you really wanted to go a power build, but not use dagger bc you're not comfortable with melee combat.... but it's far from ideal.

[Alhuin]

I've been following this guide for awhile now, but recently I've come across a few questions that I'd like to ask, so I decided to register.

First off, I want to say that this guide is absolutely amazing.  I've always enjoyed using the dagger, despite it's melee range, but I could never find another Powermancer guide to support it (everything was sPvP oriented, and I'm not good at making gear and trait choices on my own).  I love Conditionmancer, don't get me wrong, but I was bored with it; I wanted to take the road less traveled.

That being said, upon playing with it some more, I'm curious about a few of your choices and/or explanations.  You mention that you are using three pieces of Orr Karma gear, and three pieces of Berserkers.  Why?  I assume it's mostly personal preference, but from what I understand, 72 toughness, and 72 additional Vitality doesn't make a big difference when you're taking on several mobs like you mention that you can do.  I realize your guild states that you can build full Berserkers, or full Karma (for defense), but as the author, whom most people are going to follow, you are using a combination, and I'm confused as to why.

Moving on to runes/sigils.  In the build you linked, you only have a mainhand sigil.  What do you use on your offhand?  Stacking power?  Moving the sigil of blood over to that?  I haven't read up on offhand sigils much, but if you have one that triggers from crits on your offhand, do they still trigger?  That's just a general question, yes, but it helps me to decide what I want to run on mine.  Runes of the Ranger and 1 Air.... Is the increase in Precision from these runes worth more than the increase in Power from, say, Scholar runes?  Or even Divinity runes?  Granted, Divinity are really expensive, and I don't want to buy them, but I've been running Scholar, and I find that doing more damage all the time is worth more than an additional 8% or so crit chance.

Speaking of damage, I have one last set of questions here.  You mention at the bottom of your guide that you are testing Soul Reaping instead of Precision.  I support this decision.  200 Precision comes out to be 10% crit chance, give or take a few numbers too small to make a difference, and the loss of condition damage doesn't hurt anything, since you rarely have any.  Plus, you pick up the few things you mentioned would be good to have.  To take it even further though, I ask:  Why not move 5 points from Blood Magic to Soul Reaping to pick up the 25 point minor trait?  We are always going to have more than 50% life force, since we only pop in to use LT, then we pop out.  Not to mention we gain it so fast because of our daggers.  5% more damage doesn't seem like much, but at the rate we dps, it seems like a better investment than 20% reduced cooldowns on wells.  I guess losing 500 health and 50 healing might be an issue, but I'll need a better explanation to argue the fact.

I believe that's all I have for now, and I apologize for the length of this post, but I do hope you can shed some light on these issues.  I have yet to complete my Powermancer set (I still need a dagger with Berserker stats, and shoulders; I bought the Karma gloves and boots, which is what sparked my questioning), but I'm already seeing crits of close to 4k on LT and Siphon!  Thanks again for your guide.  I look forward to any updates that come along.

[takarazuka]

Alhuin, on 15 October 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

snip.....

Hey, thanks for questions and comments!!  I am on vacation right now and will definitely answer everything as soon as I have some time to sit down and type it all up.  This guide is constantly evolving and I have some other changes to be made soon.  I'll be back in a week and able to really sit down and dig in with all this....

[Draegan]

I'm about to hit 30 on my Necro and I've used a condition build so far.  I haven't messed with a power build since BWE1 or 2 so I'm now curious and if I can manage to not be lazy tonight, I'm gonna make a switch.

In any case, for those leveling that switched from condition to power, what are your experiences?  Playing a conditionmancer now, using mushroom food and full green gear that has a combo of precision and condition damage, earth sigils and bleed duration increases; I'm killing stuff pretty damn fast as it is, and in AOE.

Scepter 2, dagger 5  (and then either a well or DS you can really wipe out a group of NPCs with or without BiP up.  My question is, how much faster are you killing mobs with a power build in the 30s?  At this level you don't have the -20% CD on wells, you don't have much Blood Magic, is Locust Swarm really doing great AOE when you alternate it's CD with your other wells?

Just looking for a general observation at the lower half of the level spectrum.

Edit:
Then again, the build in the OP is identical to a condition build in the early levels, there is just a priority difference in the order you spend trait points.  And the Majors are different.

Edited by Draegan, 18 October 2012 - 08:15 PM.

[takarazuka]

Alhuin, on 15 October 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

That being said, upon playing with it some more, I'm curious about a few of your choices and/or explanations.  You mention that you are using three pieces of Orr Karma gear, and three pieces of Berserkers.  Why?  I assume it's mostly personal preference, but from what I understand, 72 toughness, and 72 additional Vitality doesn't make a big difference when you're taking on several mobs like you mention that you can do.  I realize your guild states that you can build full Berserkers, or full Karma (for defense), but as the author, whom most people are going to follow, you are using a combination, and I'm confused as to why.

I have been toying around with the gear setup to try and get a decent balance.  Using the split method, here are my current stats (these are the + stats and on top of the base amount we get at 80):
1234 power
788 precision
237 Toughness
322 Vitaltiy
Going full Zerker for example would give a little more power and a lot more precision, but no defensive abilities.

Alhuin, on 15 October 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

Moving on to runes/sigils.  In the build you linked, you only have a mainhand sigil.  What do you use on your offhand?  Stacking power?  Moving the sigil of blood over to that?  I haven't read up on offhand sigils much, but if you have one that triggers from crits on your offhand, do they still trigger?  That's just a general question, yes, but it helps me to decide what I want to run on mine.  Runes of the Ranger and 1 Air.... Is the increase in Precision from these runes worth more than the increase in Power from, say, Scholar runes?  Or even Divinity runes?  Granted, Divinity are really expensive, and I don't want to buy them, but I've been running Scholar, and I find that doing more damage all the time is worth more than an additional 8% or so crit chance.

Those sigils/runes shouldn't be in the build... I will fix that.  Off hand sigils that have an "on crit" ability only work if you use an ability in the off hand.  It's better to put the on crit sigils in main hand since you are auto attacking more.  Off hands are up to you... I have a flat 5% crit chance sigil in mine, but you could do the on crit ones too.  For runes.... I am still deciding which would be better... power or precision.  I have built this thing around a high crit so I am more apt to use it, but power is a standard increase on everything.  So either way it would be okay, but there is no right or wrong way for it.

[Graytalon]

Great posts!  I have gone back through this several times over the passed couple of days and keep finding nuggets of info.  I have to say I have been swapping around between scepter/dagger and dagger/horn and I am really finding the melee ranged fun.  
I have a question though.  I know you have posted that it’s possible to run this in WvW, but has anyone actually done it?  I ask because the prevailing wisdom is ranged/condition/epidemic type builds, but I am really liking a melee caster mindset.  Anyone that has running “successfully” sing out.  Inquiring minds want to know!

GT


ps.  Anyone have a video showing the build in action?  I just hit 40+ last night and wanted to see others using it.

Edited by Graytalon, 31 October 2012 - 05:23 PM.

[DstroyaX]

OMG I just switched over from a Condition/minon hybrid build to this one. After a few minutes of learning the new rotation, I can't believe how quickly I mow down mobs, and I'm not even geared properly yet!

It feels like the mobs rush in at me screaming, "Kill the squishy necroma...OMG why am I dying so fast!!!!!1!!!!" lol. I just feel bad ass running this build.

Thanks for the guide, it has been extremely informative!

[Plum]

Hey, I seem to have issues when it comes to taking on several mobs at a time with this build. Any tips on fighting a lot of mobs at once?


I also can't seem to get the hang of stacking might.

Edited by Plum, 09 November 2012 - 06:51 PM.

[Wallach]

takarazuka, on 28 October 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

Off hand sigils that have an "on crit" ability only work if you use an ability in the off hand.  It's better to put the on crit sigils in main hand since you are auto attacking more.

Just as a heads-up, this part isn't true. Sigils apply to any attacks you make while that weapon is equipped regardless of whether you're using a MH or OH ability. They aren't specific to the weapon you apply them to.

[Edbert]

I just started using this build yesterday, so far so good. It has breathed new life into my necro which was getting boring (to me) and being left in the garage while I drove more entertaining rides.

takarazuka, on 05 October 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

On Flesh Golem - he works great for solo play where you have no need for a 240s cooldown elite like Lich Form or Plague.  No he isn't the most intelligent and he runs off a lot, but he does some decent damage and the knockdown is very handy.

Did they nerf the FG some recently, or take away one of his two brain cells? Just seems he's gotten even worse, maybe I'm just paying more attention.
The one thing (ONLY thing) I like the FG for is to hide behind and use as a bullet sponge. Other than his ability to absorb damage (and keep it off my cloth-armored squishyness) he's totally useless and sometimes worse than that he can actually be a liability when you are trying to work your way through mobs to get to a POI or SP.

[Edbert]

These two posts next to each other are interesting, quite the dichotomy...

DstroyaX, on 02 November 2012 - 05:26 AM, said:

After a few minutes of learning the new rotation, I can't believe how quickly I mow down mobs, and I'm not even geared properly yet!

Plum, on 09 November 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

Hey, I seem to have issues when it comes to taking on several mobs at a time with this build. Any tips on fighting a lot of mobs at once?

Those wells can literally melt a large group of enemies. Best advice in a 1 vs many situation is to stop kiting. Hard to get used to in a light armored toon but sit still and let them come, then pop all your utilities and you can take down multiple veterans alone. You may have to 'relocate' once if there are vets, but for normal mobs nothing can stand up to all at once plus your main skills, the locusts will prevent them from escaping the wells too.

For a little while i played with Well of Darkness in there, the AOE blind really helps the survivability if you're gonna tank a crowd. I think there are times when I like it better than BiP, but not in the general term or for just running around. I swapped it out when fighting for an SP though with good results.

[Loperdos]

Started up my necro again just recently and was looking at using this build (was hoping to use it earlier before the patch, but had heard that a lot of the life siphon skills were bugged), and so far its working out pretty well.

Was just curious if anyone had any updates on the build since the Lost Shores patch came out (I haven't gotten a chance to play and my necro is low level, so a lot of the changes didn't really effect my character yet)?

[teflondon75]

Well I just got my necro to 80 yesterday. Finished the last 10 levels bringing artificer and tailoring to 400, crafting almost feels like cheating lol...soo much exp!  As part of my finishing tailoring I made a full knight's rare set for now and took him for a spin around  Malchor's leap n Cursed shore. It felt a bit like running out of gas once the wells were on CD. If wells were up and DS you can kill Very quickly, if not it takes an extraordinary amount of time to kill even singles. I still love it This was just a little more noticeable now that I'm fighting high 70's - 80 mobs. Once you guys/gals are well/DS on cooldown are you just plinking away with dagger #1? Worked great in the 10-50's but seems to take ages now lol.  Anyhow, loved playing up till now and maybe the slight edge of exotics I'll craft tomorrow will push that over just a bit

[DstroyaX]

teflondon75, on 17 November 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:

Once you guys/gals are well/DS on cooldown are you just plinking away with dagger #1?

I go in, wait a second for the crowd to swarm. then pop BiP-> both wells-> DS, #4, leave DS-> Locust-> life siphon-> spam #1 until life siphon recharges -> dagger 3-> life siphon again -> spam 1 if need be

I don't seem to have too much trouble taking much down in Orr,  and life siphon is a godsend as it recharges relatively quickly compared to the rest of the skills.  
I'm decked out in full lvl 80 yellow berserker's gear with emerald orbs in the slots and ruby jewelry with rubies in slots. I'm a little light on toughness but with effective dodging I'm doing alright.

Oh and I've noticed, but haven't seen it mentioned. When you use dagger 3 to immobilize a foe, you can stand just outside melee range of the enemy and still hit them with the dagger while taking no damage!

Edited by DstroyaX, 19 November 2012 - 04:50 AM.

[Phenn]

So I picked up my lvl 76 Powermancer again after about a month running different classes. I don't know why I ever left, to be honest. It's a flippin' lawnmower with mobs. And the inherent survivability coupled with the ability to get up ridiculously easily from downed makes this great fun. I feel like taunting the screen, "Na-na  you can't kill me..."

Anyway, I figured I'd jump back in here to offer a tip I discovered today running Fractals with my Mesmer buddy. As Takarazuka has said, the build is a little less support-oriented than conditions for dungeons, but I was having fun nonetheless. The traits can be swapped in favor of targeted wells and group heals to combine with the staff, but I found that was more helpful against single bosses. When up against mobs, I had to switch back to dagger, and stuck with it. Too much fun.

But to get to the tip--I discovered that Well of Power (converts conditions to boons) procs Vampiric when it hits allies. I found that if I was really hurting for health, I could drop the well on my buddy and his clones and get some serious juice back. It ticks per person per second. Granted, I was using it more as a condition-management skill, but the health regen was very welcome, too.

Additionally, I run off-hand dagger in my second weapon slot for the extra CD's. (Someone above asked what to do when wells are on CD.) Enfeebling Blood is great while bashing with Dagger 1 to mitigate damage, and Deathly Swarm adds survivability through blinds and condition removal (especially when heal is on CD). In fact, I tend to stay on D/D in between CD's on Locust Swarm, simply because the you can use Deathly Swarm twice before Locusts are up again. (Granted, it's not exact, but in the heat of battle it works.)

I'm glad I came back to the Powermancer--still tons of fun. Can't wait to get to Orr and see how he does.

[teflondon75]

DstroyaX, on 19 November 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

I go in, wait a second for the crowd to swarm. then pop BiP-> both wells-> DS, #4, leave DS-> Locust-> life siphon-> spam #1 until life siphon recharges -> dagger 3-> life siphon again -> spam 1 if need be

I don't seem to have too much trouble taking much down in Orr,  and life siphon is a godsend as it recharges relatively quickly compared to the rest of the skills.  
I'm decked out in full lvl 80 yellow berserker's gear with emerald orbs in the slots and ruby jewelry with rubies in slots. I'm a little light on toughness but with effective dodging I'm doing alright.

Oh and I've noticed, but haven't seen it mentioned. When you use dagger 3 to immobilize a foe, you can stand just outside melee range of the enemy and still hit them with the dagger while taking no damage!

You know I've actually not used BiP once lol. I always like the run speed so have it swapped out for spectral walk. Just by looking at the skill I'm sure that would add quite some juice. Really I was doing it all a disservice, comparing it to my 80 fully exotic'ed guardian =/ I never should have done that I admit. My necro just seemed to be front loaded and run out of juice while my much more defense/support spec'ed guardian seemed to kill at least as easily and never be in trouble no matter how many mobs In stead of just running to the next Orichalcum node I should just relax, throw in BiP, get my exotics finished and then make any sort of comparison

[takarazuka]

Thanks for the feedback and comments.... Unfortunately I am not playing GW2 currently and haven't been playing since prior to Halloween.  I quit for a few days and had no urge to go back and play.  This guide MAY be out of date by now with all the recent changes, but I don't know... haven't really looked in to it much.

I may come back and play at some point, but my attention is focused on real life right now and not so much on gaming.  It was great to discuss and debate necros with everyone on these forums, and I may see you all around sometime!

[Fazzi00]

looking at the alternate defensive build..does vampiric stack with spiteful vigor?



as in, heal every time you attack from vampiric, and gain retaliation every time you heal meaning 100% uptime retaliation?

[takarazuka]

Fazzi00, on 02 December 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

looking at the alternate defensive build..does vampiric stack with spiteful vigor?



as in, heal every time you attack from vampiric, and gain retaliation every time you heal meaning 100% uptime retaliation?

No, I am pretty sure it was only when you use your healing ability.  I think it was bugged though as I rarely had retaliation up.  It may have been fixed in a patch?  Not sure since I am not playing anymore.

[Cerbeius]

Leveling a Necromancer right now and this guide fits perfectly with my playing style. Thanks a lot for all your hard work, takarazuka ^^

[Looniie]

Personally i use dagger/dagger + staff with CoE crit set .. does anyone have similar build they can post? Having troubles finding out the best way to boost my vitality/toughness   without sacrificing too much power/crit

[kalendraf]

Until I found this guide, I had tried out a few different necro builds, but I didn't really find any that fit my preferred style of play.  This one looked promising, and I've been using it to easily go from about level 20 to 47 so far.  With the lifesteal skills, I quickly noticed that it played a bit a like the early GW1 meleemancer (Necro/Warrior) which was a really fun class to play until ANet began nerfing all the lifesteal skills into oblivion.  The diversity of the skills actually makes this GW2 powermancer even more fun to play and a bit more robust in most situations.

One thing I'm not using much is the Death Shroud.  I know it's powerful and that I should switch into it more often, but I'm often finding that I don't need it.  Between the normal skills and sensible play, it's easy to dispatch most foes, even larger groups of enemies, without switching into Death Shroud at all.

Unlike some other builds I've tried, this one also seems much less dependent on equipment.  In fact, I reached level 47 while still using level 30 gear, and never really noticed a problem.  I was still killing stuff pretty fast and aside from some falling fatalities and a couple of regrettable spots where I got pinned down alone facing champions, I never died.

Thanks for the build.  It's been a blast so far, and I'm looking forward to using it all the way to 80.