78 replies to this topic

[Korra]

My build, just in case you wonder.

http://www.gw2build....<br /> <br /> I change the traits depending on the situations, but this is pretty much an all terrain build.

[blindude]

Korra, on 30 September 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Thief is far superior by all means, don't even bother.

Korra first of all i feel bad that you rerolled main and drop ele..You seemed to love him so much in betas
Anyway im just looking  at your build and then what i posted and i cant find any reason why its faster in out of combat movement.
I stand strong on my statement that in transportation from point a to point b an ele can go  as fast as a thief.
Shadowstep has 1200 range while lightning flash has 900 but has 36 sec cooldown so it totally blows shadowstep.
Rtl is 1200 range in 12 sec and its not the only thing there.
Fiery greatsword has 2 900 range skills in 5 sec and 15 sec respectively cooldowns.Also every 60 sec you get additional 1 leap and burning retreat from the conjure.
Also rtl if you dissable autotargetting (which you should) doesnt get stuck at any mob at all even if you pass through it
I personally believe that if the points a and b are closer thief wins.If they are further away then the ele wins.
We could really calculate all this but its a bit pointless..Thoughi cant see any other class reaching those levels of mobility.

edit:to avoid misunderstanding im not counting any teleport aibility that requires a target for any class.Those apart from getting you into combat also rely well..on the existance of mobs around

Edited by blindude, 30 September 2012 - 02:21 PM.

[NuclearDonut]

Korra, on 30 September 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

Im not sure if you're trolling me or you really have no clue what you are talking about.

About stop targeting and rtl, it's very situational.

>Dodges go backwards

Are you serious?  You can roll forward.

About constant vigor, Phoenix + cantrips is the only way you get vigor, and you require shooting disruption to make the cantrips give vigor, and they are not affected by boon duration.

being able to spam 4 IA requires only Infiltrators signet, the trait tha gives 3 ini more (which any good thief should have in pve) and the trait that makes you recover 2 ini every 10 secs.

You are still excelent at fighting. I don't see what you mean about that you need a build  speced only for mobility. My build ispretty much flawless and i can spam 4 IA.

Really, stop trying to deny the facts, Thief is faster and more movile by all means.

1) How the hell is RTL situational? It's saved my ass from getting zerged in WvWvW so many times. Oh look a million HB warriors about to faceroll me, RTL right into the keep portal thingy that transports you to the other side. It isn't situational at all.

2) I wasn't sure what dodges you were talking about, I thought you meant Withdraw and Roll for Initiative, which automatically evade backwards. And in that case, any class that can get perma vigor has more than 2 dodges at pretty much all times.

3) Your forgetting the trait that gives 33% chance to gain vigor on crits, with one auto attack of the scepter air 1 skill, I can stack 20+ seconds of vigor. So in that regard, YOU have no idea what your talking about.

4) You need to take up 2 (most people use Roll For Initiative as well, so 3) of your utility skills to be as mobile as you can be, not even mentioning traits. Ele can keep up with some traits (that still benefit in combat) and weapon skills, then pick whatever utility they like, they aren't shoehorned into anything.

5) Lastly, in the long run, 35% speed increase > 25% speed increase. You don't notice it right away, but whenever I play with my buddies that aren't Ele's in WvWvW I have to stop for them to catch up every few minutes. Really though, this is a theorycrafting battle, I don't know what experience you've had but I love my Ele and my Thief, and I've done races. Ele is still the most mobile. If we're talking hard to catch however, then Thief owns everyone in that. I won't deny that.

[Korra]

NuclearDonut, on 30 September 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

1) How the hell is RTL situational? It's saved my ass from getting zerged in WvWvW so many times. Oh look a million HB warriors about to faceroll me, RTL right into the keep portal thingy that transports you to the other side. It isn't situational at all.

2) I wasn't sure what dodges you were talking about, I thought you meant Withdraw and Roll for Initiative, which automatically evade backwards. And in that case, any class that can get perma vigor has more than 2 dodges at pretty much all times.

3) Your forgetting the trait that gives 33% chance to gain vigor on crits, with one auto attack of the scepter air 1 skill, I can stack 20+ seconds of vigor. So in that regard, YOU have no idea what your talking about.

4) You need to take up 2 (most people use Roll For Initiative as well, so 3) of your utility skills to be as mobile as you can be, not even mentioning traits. Ele can keep up with some traits (that still benefit in combat) and weapon skills, then pick whatever utility they like, they aren't shoehorned into anything.

5) Lastly, in the long run, 35% speed increase > 25% speed increase. You don't notice it right away, but whenever I play with my buddies that aren't Ele's in WvWvW I have to stop for them to catch up every few minutes. Really though, this is a theorycrafting battle, I don't know what experience you've had but I love my Ele and my Thief, and I've done races. Ele is still the most mobile. If we're talking hard to catch however, then Thief owns everyone in that. I won't deny that.

I¡m not forgetting the vigor on crit, but why the hell would you engage combat when we are talking about speed traveling?

About the utility, Sigent of shadows rocks for pve kiting and catching up, Shadowstepis a stun breaker which is usefull against bosses, although most of the times i sawp it for caltrops on farming events, and shadow rfuge is a must.

[blindude]

Korra, on 30 September 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

I¡m not forgetting the vigor on crit, but why the hell would you engage combat when we are talking about speed traveling?

About the utility, Sigent of shadows rocks for pve kiting and catching up, Shadowstepis a stun breaker which is usefull against bosses, although most of the times i sawp it for caltrops on farming events, and shadow rfuge is a must.

soo..wanna make a race??i just tested it with a fellow thief friend and after his initial IA spam he literally ate my dust

[Korra]

blindude, on 30 September 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

soo..wanna make a race??i just tested it with a fellow thief friend and after his initial IA spam he literally ate my dust

whenever you want

[Crosier]

Ride the Lightning. Not even a class, just that ability, really. Turn autotargeting off and go everywhere faster than everyone else.

[NuclearDonut]

Korra, on 30 September 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

I¡m not forgetting the vigor on crit, but why the hell would you engage combat when we are talking about speed traveling?

About the utility, Sigent of shadows rocks for pve kiting and catching up, Shadowstepis a stun breaker which is usefull against bosses, although most of the times i sawp it for caltrops on farming events, and shadow rfuge is a must.

In combat, signet of shadows is all but useless, because of the huge decrease in movement speed, not even swiftness can make a huge difference. And where did you get shadowstep and shadow refuge from? I meant for the other 2 utilities to be Infiltrator's Signet and Roll for Initiative. Whatever, for some reason your still clinging to your ideas. I've pretty much presented all my points, I won't force you to change your mind. I just want the OP to know what he's getting into.

Crosier, on 30 September 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Ride the Lightning. Not even a class, just that ability, really. Turn autotargeting off and go everywhere faster than everyone else.

This

blindude, on 30 September 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

soo..wanna make a race??i just tested it with a fellow thief friend and after his initial IA spam he literally ate my dust

And especially this.

[Viroid]

NuclearDonut, on 30 September 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

5) Lastly, in the long run, 35% speed increase > 25% speed increase.

It´s 33% btw...
Second is, Thief has perma swiftness with more than one build. So you dont have to chose whether playing a build for fighting or for running. You have both at one time, plus an extra weapon sets while you are sticked to the dagger as offhand.

Adding the IA will kick every others classes butts...

RTL with 15s cd...1200 every 15seconds. Yawn.
Against 2 IA in 13seconds with range of 900 each makes 1800 in less time then RTL.

€: And to sum it up, you can use steal on a rabbit or rat, (or with Hidden Thief on every enemy), to close a gap of 900-1200.

Edited by Viroid, 30 September 2012 - 09:21 PM.

[NuclearDonut]

Viroid, on 30 September 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

It´s 33% btw...
Second is, Thief has perma swiftness with more than one build. So you dont have to chose whether playing a build for fighting or for running. You have both at one time, plus an extra weapon sets while you are sticked to the dagger as offhand.

Adding the IA will kick every others classes butts...

RTL with 15s cd...1200 every 15seconds. Yawn.
Against 2 IA in 13seconds with range of 900 each makes 1800 in less time then RTL.

€: And to sum it up, you can use steal on a rabbit or rat, (or with Hidden Thief on every enemy), to close a gap of 900-1200.

I'm not going through this again, if you wanna see why your wrong go look through my last few posts, it's 35% btw.....

[Viroid]

NuclearDonut, on 30 September 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

I'm not going through this again, if you wanna see why your wrong go look through my last few posts, it's 35% btw.....

Like a little child when it discovers he´s wrong xD

Swiftness

And like i said, Ele is way to slow with the long RTL cd....

Oh, and you mean your 5 points, where you show that you dont know much about GW2 and the Thief profession? Sorry man, you are totally wrong.
And no, i dont need RFI or any other utilities...neither do i need any traits that i wouldnt use in battle. Most of the "run" traits are minor traits, so you dont even have to use any major trait.
I just can say it again, learn to play your thief!

blindude, on 30 September 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

edit:to avoid misunderstanding im not counting any teleport aibility that requires a target for any class.Those apart from getting you into combat also rely well..on the existance of mobs around

No, with "hidden thief" they wont bring you in combat...

Edited by Viroid, 01 October 2012 - 05:41 AM.

[NuclearDonut]

Viroid, on 01 October 2012 - 05:28 AM, said:

Like a little child when it discovers he´s wrong xD

Swiftness

And like i said, Ele is way to slow with the long RTL cd....

Oh, and you mean your 5 points, where you show that you dont know much about GW2 and the Thief profession? Sorry man, you are totally wrong.
And no, i dont need RFI or any other utilities...neither do i need any traits that i wouldnt use in battle. Most of the "run" traits are minor traits, so you dont even have to use any major trait.
I just can say it again, learn to play your thief!




No, with "hidden thief" they wont bring you in combat...

-facepalm-
You obviously didn't read my previous posts, I'm not even talking about swiftness! You read ONE of my MANY posts on this topic. Gaaah!
-facepalm-

[Doctor Overlord]

I wanted to necro this thread to ask if anything has changed with the various patches.   I'm really only interested in non-combat travel for map completion, not combat-based movement increases.  

I have never played a Thief but I am very interested in trying one to be my map completion character.   I figure stealth must be useful when you've only interested in vistas and not fighting the mobs to get to them.  (Plus they have rocking gear).  

However I already have a 25th level ele alt and I'm pondering sticking with them.  (I don't want to go for map completion with my main for various reasons I've found such as norn and jumping puzzles lol)  

Based on that criteria, one thing that has not been brought up is what *level* movement speed can be increased and which professions can have the earliest increased movement speed.  

Some of the thief utility skills mentioned in this thread (Like Shadowstep and Signet of Shadows) are Tier 3.    My 25th level ele gets the same +25% passive as Signet of Shadows with Signet of Air at only Tier 2.     Rangers can match that with Signet of the Hunt but Necros have one at only Tier 1 (although based on this thread that early necro advantage is lost at higher levels to eles and theives).

I guess this isn't a big deal since most of the map completion is done when a character has hit the level cap but it did have a different perspective.

It sounds like the discussion is between eles and theives so are there options for lower level thieves to get the movement increases?

blindude, on 30 September 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

soo..wanna make a race??i just tested it with a fellow thief friend and after his initial IA spam he literally ate my dust

Korra, on 30 September 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

whenever you want

Did this race ever happen?

Now with questing working I would really like to see this!  Heck, you folks could post a Youtube vid (or take bets )

If you need a server to host it, you can come over to Sanctum of Rall.   Or if you want an impartial judge I'd be happy to volunteer.

Edited by Doctor Overlord, 06 February 2013 - 07:22 PM.

[Korra]

Doctor Overlord, on 06 February 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

Never actually happened, recently i started playing my ele alot, and while i notice they are fast with the use of some skills, blowing your cooldowns just for the sake of going fast is not really that great (talking about WvW)

[Doctor Overlord]

Korra, on 06 February 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

Never actually happened, recently i started playing my ele alot, and while i notice they are fast with the use of some skills, blowing your cooldowns just for the sake of going fast is not really that great (talking about WvW)

I can see that but I was actually interested in simply increasing travel speed in PvE zones to make that map completion less onerous.  

As I said, I was originally thinking of a thief would be good simply because of stealth to avoid mobs but then I find this debate over thieves or eles being the in the top spot for sustained travel.  

The way I see it, I win whoever is right   But the gamer in me is curious about which class really is the best as PvE exploration.

Edited by Doctor Overlord, 06 February 2013 - 11:53 PM.

[blindude]

oh hey ..i still think ele can go as fast as thief or faster in out of combat transportation
Perma swiftness is easy so i dont count it.If you want to make the fastest ele you would want rtl with 12 sec cd(traited).
D/d for burniing speed + magnetic grasp which has 12 sec cd and 900 range(use it on rabbits).Lightning flash 900 rannge at 36 sec cd (traited) and the the fiery axe for burning retreat at 900 range and leap at 600 range.Then you can equip staff for a second burning retreat.
At last fiery greatsword is a wonderfull way to skyrocket the mobility of a friend  but for you its actually worth it for only 12 sec until next rtl and the other gap closers are refreshed.
Try it and you would be amazed at how fast you travel.I do think though that is abit unpractical cause requires a weapon switch and equiping a conjure thats semi useless otherwise.But still you dont need to go that far to reach the mobility of the most common thief builds.
On the other hand thief wins hands down in vertical mobility since IA can reach places that flash cant and even if it could it will still have a 36 sec cd..

Edited by blindude, 07 February 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[AKGeo]

Thief: 50% faster run speed while stealthed.

/topic.

[Rumstein]

NuclearDonut, on 02 October 2012 - 02:37 AM, said:

-facepalm-
You obviously didn't read my previous posts, I'm not even talking about swiftness! You read ONE of my MANY posts on this topic. Gaaah!
-facepalm-

Psst, not even reading your other posts, because the max move speed bonuses are:
25% Signet etc
33% Swiftness
50% Stealthed Thief.

Movespeed bonuses DO NOT STACK.

In other news, thief using shortbow to shadowstep, shadowstep itself, stealth for 3 secs of 50% ms, steal to a critter (also gaining swiftness), dodge roll swiftness... An ele CANNOT compete with that (seriously, i play both).

[blindude]

Rumstein, on 10 February 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

Psst, not even reading your other posts, because the max move speed bonuses are:
25% Signet etc
33% Swiftness
50% Stealthed Thief.

Movespeed bonuses DO NOT STACK.

In other news, thief using shortbow to shadowstep, shadowstep itself, stealth for 3 secs of 50% ms, steal to a critter (also gaining swiftness), dodge roll swiftness... An ele CANNOT compete with that (seriously, i play both).

whatever..50%speed for a shot amount of time doesnt mean much when the ele build i described above is all charges.
When the thief has steal at 45 sec cd and ele has magnetic grasp at 12 sec.(The cd is the saving grace)
When a thief has shadowstep at 50 sec cd an ele has lighting flash at 36 (though one is 1200 and other 900 range)
When the thief has IA an ele has rtl at12sec,burning soeed at 15 sec ,burning retreat from staff(out of combat),burning retreat from a conjure and another 600 leap if you want plus the mobility of the gs elite.. \
And really dont mention swiftness again..

Anyway ele not coming close is a bit of an underestimation i think..

Edited by blindude, 11 February 2013 - 09:26 PM.