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HoD: Solution or Problem

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#121 Goodhugh

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:21 PM

View PostLaylyn, on 28 September 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

We did and it's been working.   http://www.guildwars...or-a-challenge/

Lower ranked tiers haven't been drying up they've been growing and getting stronger:  http://www.guildwars...g-vs-yb-vs-gom/


/salute

Well then!  I guess I stand corrected.  Looks like a healthy match you have there.

#122 Laylyn

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:27 PM

View PostGoodhugh, on 28 September 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

Well then!  I guess I stand corrected.  Looks like a healthy match you have there.


From what I noticed, a lot of positives seem to be coming out of the lower brackets.  As the game population evens, I think people will be pretty surprised.

Also many people should keep in mind the game isn't fully global yet.  As countries like China enter the picture, things will equalize more.  After all if the Chinese player base joins in WOW like numbers, they'll outnumber EU and North American players combined.

The game is growing and looking up as the player base that wants to be here stays.   It's easy to go gloom and doom, but it's actually better than most people expect.

My 2 cents.   Your mileage may vary.


/salute

#123 DarkWalker

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:28 PM

View PostLaylyn, on 28 September 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

GW2 hasn't officially opened in China.   If Chinese pvpers come to the game in the same numbers they did in WOW, the will outnumber the total amount of North American and European players combined.

I respectfully submit that we may be said minority.   That singular change alone would alter the balance of some current servers and make others necessary.

World vs World is a global pvp game.   It just hasn't gone fully global yet.


/salute

Actually, given how the Chinese government treats MMOs, chances are good that, when / if GW2 launches on China, Chinese players will only be able to connect to exclusive Chinese servers. China doesn't want it's population freely mingling (and exchanging ideas) with the outside world.

#124 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 12:35 AM

Yes HoD is the solution.  Let's all transfer there, good or bad, all of us.

/sarcasm.

Seriously are people even thinking in this thread?

-if you want to win at the expense of fun and lenient queue times, go HoD and button mash.
-If you want to have fun and lose, stay in a low populated server.  
-If you want competitive large scale combat, find another game or wait.

WvW has a great foundation.  And I do think it should stay 24/7.  But there are some serious changes needing to take place.  Every server, every single one, had queue times that fell over time in the official queue times posted by arenanet.  This is cause people are tired of the bullshit, and they're not playing anymore.

And quit it with the lrn2play attitude.  You'd think after decades of MMOs people would finally be able to grow up and discuss a topic involving rulesets without this crap, but it actually seems to get worse every year. WvWvW is hardly in the best state it can be, it's better to think about how it can improve, whatever those solutions might be.

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 29 September 2012 - 12:51 AM.

Fun while it lasted.  I guess.

#125 Quekie

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 05:09 AM

View Postananda, on 28 September 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

First of all, I'm not really against the current situation, but that's because I don't particularly care about winning. Good fights are still happening, so I'm happy. But I do think that the current situation is not good for the long term health of the game, so since I do want to continue having fun for a long time, let me play the devil's advocate and complete this analogy.
...

Restaurant B's demand is clearly ridiculous and is rejected. The obvious solution, graciously pointed out by Restaurant A, is for the other 2 to also hire competent night staff. However, the pool of people willing to work night shift within reasonable distance of the restaurants have been more or less exhausted. Most of them have already worked for Restaurant A, and since they are treated and paid well there, see no reason to change job.


This is not entirely true. There are plenty of night shift staff in Restaurant D, E, F which only open at night. They are requesting for morning shift staff. The problem I see right now is that when they move from Restaurant to Restaurants they don't get to keep their savings. Hence, I do hope ANet allows guild move. Albeit not free, I believe guild would not mind it, but at least have a feature implemented first.

View PostGoodhugh, on 28 September 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

I think Restaurants B & C may end up losing too much money to Restaurant A and have to close their doors.  

Honestly, what do you expect to happen in a video game?  Are these people on the losing servers going to buckle down and go recruit, recruit, recruit from the pool of happy EU guilds over on their EU servers?  No, because it's too much work to put into something that's supposed to be an enjoyable thing to do to unwind at the end of a long day at school/work.

You've every right to your opinion, just don't be surprised when the pool of WvW participants dries up if Anet stays with the status quo for much longer.

Many have not given up. Just like the current world, you still see other shops besides 7/11 that do sell the same business. If B & C gives up, the others will move to D,E, which will fill the population anyway. There are servers out there with large oceanic crew waiting for their US counterparts. The lower tiers are experiencing the same issue, but with "Oceanic Prime Time", where OCEANICS/ASIAN get night capped.

Restaurant B&D, and Restaurant C&E has the option to merge (or move over) to have enough staff to make a 24/7 restaurant. It just depends on who's willing to make the sacrifice (for now since the "Government" doesn't allow you take along your savings)

#126 Quekie

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 05:19 AM

View PostLaylyn, on 28 September 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

We did and it's been working.   http://www.guildwars...or-a-challenge/

Lower ranked tiers haven't been drying up they've been growing and getting stronger:  http://www.guildwars...g-vs-yb-vs-gom/


/salute

You sir, I have full respect.
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#127 Seimore

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 05:24 AM

Laylyn is indeed one of the most respectable posters on this forum.

#128 Pwnedd

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 02:27 PM

View PostAngelballer, on 28 September 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

Simple solution IMO is to allow guild transfers to not lose their perks they've earned and reduce the number of players that can be present in WvW in off-peak hours. It is silly to expect a NA server to have the same population in WvW in off-peak times as they do in peak times in order to be competitive. This forces Oceanic and European players to distribute themselves more evenly amongst NA servers if they want to play in WvW. If they just want to play PVE, no big deal. That is the simplest way to evenly distribute the populations. Right now playing with the outmanned buff means you are relegated to picking off stragglers and capping supply camps.

Another thing I'd like to see done is change the perks of the orbs so that they contribute to points instead with a bonus for holding all 3 but have them have a downside like losing 5% health and damage for each orb you hold. This promotes a server getting all 3 but makes it easier for the other two servers to get them back as well as claiming other territory. It would add another layer to the game. 15 points an orb plus another 15 point bonus for holding all three is a decent scoring boost.


Seriously, for the hundredth time, this game does not and will not revolve around NA players, their peak time or their sleeping time. Get it into all your thick skulls.

#129 Laylyn

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 02:43 PM

View PostQuekie, on 29 September 2012 - 05:19 AM, said:

You sir, I have full respect.
Posted Image

Thanks, you two are too kind.   =)


/salute

#130 Zagztw

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 02:59 PM

View PostPwnedd, on 29 September 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:



Seriously, for the hundredth time, this game does not and will not revolve around NA players, their peak time or their sleeping time. Get it into all your thick skulls.

Correct.

Wich is unfortunate because 80% of Australia and the Far East are on HOD.

Keep fighting those NPCs.

#131 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 12:28 AM

View PostPwnedd, on 29 September 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

Seriously, for the hundredth time, this game does not and will not revolve around NA players, their peak time or their sleeping time. Get it into all your thick skulls.

3 things:

1) Many of the people complaining are European.  They actually get it worse since the people on european servers are generally  more spread out.

2) AFAIK NA servers fight NA servers.  Thinking you shouldn't at the very least change something just for those servers is not thinking the whole thing through.  But really, as I've said, the problem is universal.

3) don't be rude.

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 30 September 2012 - 12:28 AM.

Fun while it lasted.  I guess.

#132 Seimore

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 01:42 AM

View PostZagztw, on 29 September 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:


Wich is unfortunate because 80% of Australia and the Far East are on HOD.


Repeating the same false percentages doesn't make them true. Internet statistics yeahhhhhh!

#133 HengeTroll

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 02:02 AM

Everyone knows Zag puts out as many fake statistics as his body does extra chromosomes. It's ok little fella, one day you'll get over the internet ownage. Until then keep on truckin big guy.

Edited by HengeTroll, 30 September 2012 - 02:02 AM.


#134 Garrand

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 08:53 AM

Shut off free transfers. Problem solves itself.

HoD isn't the problem. Whiny players that are afraid of losing because they think losing is the worst thing in the world to happen are the problem. Losing is nature's way of telling you that whatever you are doing isn't working, so you need to find a better approach.

I wish there was a way to verify your server somehow so they could force you to do that to post in this section of the forum, all the anonymous QQ threads are ridiculous.

Edited by Garrand, 30 September 2012 - 08:55 AM.


#135 Akarashi

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 12:33 PM

Wait, there are STILL free transfers?!

#136 Impmon

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 12:54 PM

View PostGarrand, on 30 September 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

Shut off free transfers. Problem solves itself.

HoD isn't the problem. Whiny players that are afraid of losing because they think losing is the worst thing in the world to happen are the problem. Losing is nature's way of telling you that whatever you are doing isn't working, so you need to find a better approach.

I wish there was a way to verify your server somehow so they could force you to do that to post in this section of the forum, all the anonymous QQ threads are ridiculous.

On sarrow's furnace they argue and complain about losing in WVW yet everyone just runs out solo asking where the zerg is and run up to keeps with defenders and siege trying to melee doors.  

As it stands now you can either;

1)  Take the strenuous time to teach people how to play and organize.

2)  Click "world selection" & transfer to another server which is more competent.  Takes less then 5 min.

What do you think everyone does ?

#137 Terike

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 02:04 PM

View PostRabidusIncendia, on 29 September 2012 - 12:35 AM, said:

Yes HoD is the solution.  Let's all transfer there, good or bad, all of us.

/sarcasm.

Seriously are people even thinking in this thread?

-if you want to win at the expense of fun and lenient queue times, go HoD and button mash.
-If you want to have fun and lose, stay in a low populated server.  
-If you want competitive large scale combat, find another game or wait.

WvW has a great foundation.  And I do think it should stay 24/7.  But there are some serious changes needing to take place.  Every server, every single one, had queue times that fell over time in the official queue times posted by arenanet.  This is cause people are tired of the bullshit, and they're not playing anymore.

And quit it with the lrn2play attitude.  You'd think after decades of MMOs people would finally be able to grow up and discuss a topic involving rulesets without this crap, but it actually seems to get worse every year. WvWvW is hardly in the best state it can be, it's better to think about how it can improve, whatever those solutions might be.

Why hate on HoD? You don't even play on our server, you have no idea what we do or do not do, unless you count the beatings your server received during the 24hr matches.

If you want a civil conversation - you have to contribute. This post is not contributing in any reasonable fashion. Instead it is just rash generalizations, which is not conductive to a real discussion regarding the problems with W3.

#138 Lambchopz

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 02:12 PM

View PostLaylyn, on 28 September 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

From what I noticed, a lot of positives seem to be coming out of the lower brackets.  As the game population evens, I think people will be pretty surprised.

Also many people should keep in mind the game isn't fully global yet.  As countries like China enter the picture, things will equalize more.  After all if the Chinese player base joins in WOW like numbers, they'll outnumber EU and North American players combined.

The game is growing and looking up as the player base that wants to be here stays.   It's easy to go gloom and doom, but it's actually better than most people expect.

My 2 cents.   Your mileage may vary.


/salute

Aside from the bit about the Chinese coming to save the day, I agree with your optimistic outlook here. The lower tier servers are learning. Guilds are getting better and starting to work together, PUGs are dealing with communication better, matches are closer, etc.

That doesn't necessarily mean that, say, FA or BG are going to be competing with HoD anytime soon, but the mid-tier (3, 4) is definitely on a steady incline. I wouldn't be surprised if in 2 to 3 months, the top 2 tiers are relatively even, with the 3rd tier posing somewhat of a threat every now and then when one of them moves up.

The initial launch rush, where most people were just goofing around and having fun is over. People who plan to stick around are bearing down and getting better.

#139 Laylyn

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 02:16 PM

View PostLambchopz, on 30 September 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Aside from the bit about the Chinese coming to save the day, I agree with your optimistic outlook here. The lower tier servers are learning. Guilds are getting better and starting to work together, PUGs are dealing with communication better, matches are closer, etc.

That doesn't necessarily mean that, say, FA or BG are going to be competing with HoD anytime soon, but the mid-tier (3, 4) is definitely on a steady incline. I wouldn't be surprised if in 2 to 3 months, the top 2 tiers are relatively even, with the 3rd tier posing somewhat of a threat every now and then when one of them moves up.

The initial launch rush, where most people were just goofing around and having fun is over. People who plan to stick around are bearing down and getting better.


I agree.  If FA or any other server on the NA or EU bracket are looking to attract more people to fill their dead time zone, Blackgate actually made a thread for that:   http://www.guildwars...p-tier-bracket/

If the community wants to get behind it, you might see a lot of real time zone improvement.  That's even for the NA and EU brackets.


/salute

#140 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 02:18 PM

View PostTerike, on 30 September 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

Why hate on HoD? You don't even play on our server, you have no idea what we do or do not do, unless you count the beatings your server received during the 24hr matches.

If you want a civil conversation - you have to contribute. This post is not contributing in any reasonable fashion. Instead it is just rash generalizations, which is not conductive to a real discussion regarding the problems with W3.

I'm not dissing HoD.  I'm sure it's full of skilled players.  I am saying, if you are unskilled what do you do?  join HoD.  You see the problem?  You should know it since you're on that server.

View PostImpmon, on 30 September 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

On sarrow's furnace they argue and complain about losing in WVW yet everyone just runs out solo asking where the zerg is and run up to keeps with defenders and siege trying to melee doors.  

As it stands now you can either;

1)  Take the strenuous time to teach people how to play and organize.

2)  Click "world selection" & transfer to another server which is more competent.  Takes less then 5 min.

What do you think everyone does ?

Exactly.  1 is good for the game, 2 is good for yourself.  Unfortunately, if Arenanet's stance is doing nothing about the WvW problem, I'm just going to transfer and say screw the game.

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 30 September 2012 - 02:40 PM.

Fun while it lasted.  I guess.

#141 Scooby Pro

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 05:36 PM

View PostAugustusGraves, on 26 September 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

What's important is just identifying the situation and waiting for it to balance out.  The current discussions are pointless, as you've got a large number of arrogant minorities and whiners who are coming to these forums to either boast, find answers to an unrecoverable situation, or simply troll a situation that everyone saw coming.  None of these people represent the armies/forces involved in any of this competition.  And a lot of people are silently on the sidelines reading all this, shrugging, and walking away.

So, on to identifying the situation:
  • Currently, you have one highly organized-to-win server.  They are demanding other's to meet their preparation, but have likely already absorbed the general demographic of players interested in this level of organization.
  • The current servers competing with the top server are less organized, and likely consist of individuals not interested in organizing.  And while there is boasting/whining on the forums, the majority of those involved are keeping it 'in the game'.
  • Due to the differences in mentality between the top server and their immediate (current) competition, you have the top server demanding a server with the same amount of organization/coverage.  While the competition is viewed as quitting because they never came to the battle intending to commit and dedicate that much organization to it.  And beyond the small numbers on the forums... most of the taunts never reach those who are happily finding something else to do.
What this means is that there's going to be several months of growing pains as, theoretically, one of the servers begin to organize and meet HoD's challenge.  Or, no one ever will, and servers that 'casually' rank up to HoD's bracket are going to spend the next few months saying:  Faaaak - when WvW resets and they see their victory has been 'rewarded' with a chance to fight against the only server that attracted high volume 24/7 coverage.

In my opinion, HoD's initial call-to-arms and organization has attracted nearly the entirety of players interested in the level of cohesion and coverage they currently have.  So at some point, after weeks-or-months of completely stomping the competition, either boredom will settle in.  Ideally, if ArenaNet can allow guild progression to transfer across servers, some of these organized groups will spread to two other servers.  But that's highly unlikely.  Boredom and a 'new game' will neutralize this situation long before those who organized this imbalance will save it.

As it stands, there will still be SBI, ET, JQ, etc. casually playing as they always have.  You will not feel a 'push' however.  They'll be killing for fun, like they did when all of this started.  They'll invest in cheap siege weapons, but will no longer invest in upgrades due to their inability to hold a structure after hours.  Players will focus more on skirmish fights and no longer on taking/holding points - unless they get bored, of course.  There are always exceptions.

So is this a problem?  Has this broken WvW?  It all depends on how HoD responds to having no one challenge them.  Will they get bored and find something else to do?  Will a random few hundred players suddenly organize on a server with the goal of taking HoD down?  It's very unrealistic to expect people to change their work/school/life schedules for something like this.  And it's very unlikely we'll have a second and third organization of players looking for 24/7 coverage.  If that happens, HoD has to do nothing but keep doing what they do.

And that's it, really.  Feel free to return to the butt-hurting and wound salting.


I think you are personally missing something, but you were right about being organized, and stepping up to the challenge.

Keep in mind, the game is still new, and within those 4 months or so, lots of people will be wanting to try wvw and will be doing wvw more, so around the clock coverage is going to get better for allot of servers.

I was in world today standing at a broken skill point challenge talking about how I did WVW all day, and was just online to see if a friend was on. The person said to me "I am level 36, am I allowed to join WVW?" and I said, you can join wvw at any level and so on.

Point is, you can see, there are tons of people and tons of guilds that have not stepped foot into wvw yet, and those pugs already inside is going to learn and grow as better players and not just be that noobie guy we knew who placed a ram in the middle of nowhere, but instead will start placing that ram at gates.
We will have newer players that might do bad things like our former noobie pugs did, but as the game goes on.. People will join guilds, start getting far more organized than what they already are.

Take a server such as Stormbluff for example... If you are one of the servers who happen to play them allot, you can obviously see they are getting better every match, and becoming more organized and developing more tactics and all of that. The community website they got is getting bigger, more people are  listening to local chat what the commander says and are following him. More are joining team speak(I assume) to help do better, and  team speak is going to grow bigger as well. I heard JQ can get around 20 people on team speak on a borderland and another 15 or so on teamspeak for a different borderland, and they used to not have anyone on team speak.

So stepping up to the challenge is going to happen, my server is not going to win every match we are in. Heck just last week, Stormbluff would have beat us 2 matches in a row if we still had the  24 hour matches because as soon as they match started, we had nothing on any borderland for 2 days until the week days started, and any match before then, we stomped SBI, but they are getting better at their coverage slowly, but night coverage will improve like i said because tons have not done WVW yet.

As for getting bored of wvw.. Yes maybe it could happen, but wins won't change much if a guild that is great decided to up and leave after 4 months because SO MANY GUILDS BY THEN WOULD HAVE JOINED WVW, and others joining wvw, and so many would have gotten better, so winning might be a little tougher, but by then like I said, allot of people will have got better, team speak bigger, and those random pugs will listen to chat unless they are trolls.
In 4 months, or so, its all going to come down to WHICH SERVER WANTS TO WIN THE MOST, WILL END UP WINNING.

Edited by Scooby Pro, 30 September 2012 - 05:39 PM.


#142 EZaphael

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 06:07 PM

View PostHexenn, on 28 September 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

HoD passed SBI during prime time because of an overwhelming lead secured at night, consider that Henge was able to pass the other servers at prime because it was already caught up after a huge discrepancy from the day before. That one day recovery is what sparked all this crying. SBI/ET went to bed with like a 36k/15k lead or something like that, and woke up tied and losing. SBI/ET claim that they had no participation that night, but that's not true. They could field a full force in EB and a very inconsistent one in borderlands. There's a lot of wild claims being thrown around, but at times this has legitimately been a 2v1. To me it looked like SBI was kinda just doing its own thing and ET had a grudge against HoD.

Some servers are stronger than others, but the top ones are strong in different ways. HoD has the best coordination, leadership, and coverage, SBI can field tons of big, old, experienced guilds in large numbers, particularly during prime time and early nighttime. ET has Ruin, who will basically launch human wave attacks against your walls 24 hours a day, they won't win, but they can keep you from winning.

Strange, I was playing on HoD during nighttime in that match up, and I swear that we found fierce resistance pushing us back to our lowlands keep all the time.  Did HoD really get to run amok because NA players went to sleep? At least not from what I SAW.  We were pressed by guilded forces from both ET and SBI, which I am confident are not NA based players.

#143 Kampret

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:28 AM

Why cant Anet do the right thing and merge EU and NA servers together? Then a big portion of this whole problem is addressed.

#144 Quekie

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:11 AM

View PostKampret, on 01 October 2012 - 07:28 AM, said:

Why cant Anet do the right thing and merge EU and NA servers together? Then a big portion of this whole problem is addressed.

Well, then a new breed of complains will emerge~ L.A.G. From WvW to sPvP all will start complaining.

#145 BlizzIsKing

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:21 PM

hod is just too good, no1 else will ever win. it's sad ;(

#146 Scentless

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 12:55 PM

View PostBlizzIsKing, on 01 October 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

hod is just too good, no1 else will ever win. it's sad ;(
HoD will one day fall, And on the same day another will rise.

#147 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:03 PM

View PostBlizzIsKing, on 01 October 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

hod is just too good, no1 else will ever win. it's sad ;(

Well HoD is only good because of all the guilds that started there in the first week.  From what I've seen, these guilds really only care about one thing: winning.  Because of this, it is inevitable that they will form an even bigger alliance, and then mass transit immediately to an empty server, leaving behind their zerg and filling the new one entirely with pvpers, essentially becoming literally unstoppable.  Thus of course HoD will fail, probably becoming the worst server in the game as it will be nothing but bandwagoners, but the pvpers that made it that way will continue winning.

But the thread is about whether this kind of thing is a good thing, and unquestionably it is not imo.

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 02 October 2012 - 04:04 PM.

Fun while it lasted.  I guess.

#148 CharliePrince

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:11 AM

I think that if the game ends tomorrow, everyone will remember the greatness of Denravi, I find it totally funny there's even a thread on the official GW2 forums asking for the Titan of Guild Wars 2 to break up already

https://forum-en.gui...-Titan-Alliance

Greatness, imnho, is a good thing

but yes Denravi, it seems the entire playerbase of GW2 worldwide know of your now near mythic status

#149 larkin54

larkin54

    Asuran Acolyte

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:18 AM

Haha im on HoD i joined on the 25th of august because crystal desert was lagging awfully and simply forgot to transfer back I still have yet to play WvW

#150 Targanwolf

Targanwolf

    Vanguard Scout

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 03:31 PM

For me its disappointing that:

-24/7 WvW population coverage is too important
-its too easy to get  from place to place on a map(because the map is incredibly small) making response to an attack too easy
-counting points every few minutes makes WvW seem like a pvp match(which in this game it is)
-anti zerg(small group tactics have not evolved to a significant extent as an active counter to the zerg(small maps don't make a small group counter easy ). Small maps actually  facilitate the zerg.The group zerg is boring as "heck"
-the game pve was built around casual play(exploration etc) yet WvW motivates leveling to 80 fully  equipped)
-game play for less than a fully equipped 80 is becoming more difficult by the day

Edited by Targanwolf, 03 October 2012 - 03:37 PM.






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