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HoD: Solution or Problem

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#31 Kolapz

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 03:56 PM

WvW is currently a 168 hour format.

I don't understand how people think they will win/expect to win/think they deserve the win in the VERY TOP TIER OF IT if they can only field players in it for 84 hours at best.

#32 tbox

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:41 PM

View PostVyssra, on 26 September 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

I wasn't a forum goer in dark ages, shadow bane, and warhammer days but did people complain about their time being the end all and all activity should cease outside of it?  Not sure region lock was in those games even so there were those dedicated to put in the extra hours to see their side win.  So even without oceanic,s we'd have people coming back to complain about the "no lifers and school kiddies".

Sahdowbane had windows of opportunity and a bane system in which defenders set the time. And people complained when defenders set the time at 4am. The trick was to bane them on a Thursday or Friday so they had to set it on a weekend and have everyone out alarm clock raid them.

Edited by tbox, 26 September 2012 - 04:41 PM.


#33 CharliePrince

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:42 PM

View PostQuietnine, on 26 September 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:



are you serious? Denravi gets stomped on the weekends by SBI. It's embarassing. The only reason HoD is #1 is because we have so many Euro's covering our backs during the daytime hours, that we win by default during the work days. that is not greatness, and to imagine that other servers are striving to be us is completely ridiculous. Denravi would be better off as a EU server going up against goliaths like Desolation. Or, as vihar suggested, eliminating the NA/EU system and just putting all the servers in the same pile.

while the organization on this server is great, its become very hard to find smaller skirmishes because of the zerg mentality large guilds force (im looking at multiple servers, here, PRX/RMA/Ruin/TL). im kind of surprised that DAoC players havent fled to low pops in search of 5v5/10v10. that is probably where the long term enjoyment will be.

umm.. Denravi is winning the game right now. You only look at a minute, a quarter, a half.. the entire game is being played and you're in the locker room taking a shower before the 1st qtr even ends?!

look.. you can use whatever excuse you want as to the beating and dominance Denravi is Forcefully Enforcing and Demonstrating to you but the bottom line is this..

when you lose, know why you're losing

do not make excuses

ps: "Zerg of Denravi" is the #1 server worldwide.. not NA.. not EU.. WorldWide. They're the Best.

View PostKolapz, on 26 September 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

WvW is currently a 168 hour format.

I don't understand how people think they will win/expect to win/think they deserve the win in the VERY TOP TIER OF IT if they can only field players in it for 84 hours at best.


#34 tbox

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:45 PM

View PostVihar, on 26 September 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

HoD is the solution.

   They should never have designated servers as EU or NA...that is the problem.

   Also, far too many whiners and quitters in today's MMO players.

  They have no heart and no mental toughness. Just a bunch of mama's boys.

  They either quit when they are losing, or try to jump on the coattails of someone else's success so they can pretend they are good, too.

  You PVP for the joy of slaughter, not because of a scoreboard.

  Suck it up.

Hey lay off the mother's boys. A lot of people don't complain and a lot of people don't transfer and a lot of people don't care if they are not ranked 1-4.  These people don't post on forums  complaining they are enjoying the game and playing.

HoD is Anet's problem. They are an out-liner to the system that almost works but it doesn't. A good competition would have more turnover in the number 1 spot.  Maybe the system is working and just needs more time. After all HoD was down this last weekend something not seen before.  I wouldn't mind if they took the scores/rankings and ranked them again based on like 3 time zones. Overall rank would decide the matchup but we could at least see who at NA prime time is number 1 rank etc.

Edited by tbox, 26 September 2012 - 04:50 PM.


#35 pharmx

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:47 PM

Would separating the servers based on WvW population help? This would alleviate situations where you have low WvW coverage/high overall population and vice versa.

#36 CharliePrince

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:53 PM

View Postpharmx, on 26 September 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Would separating the servers based on WvW population help? This would alleviate situations where you have low WvW coverage/high overall population and vice versa.

you will have winners. you will have losers.

you will have dominance, REGARDLESS OF TIERS..

look at all the matchups going on, I don't think there's anything "close" except Denravi's comeback-in-the-making

wuvwuv was never meant to be balanced, just gotta deal with it while AN figures out what tweaks/twinks/etc to make..

#37 tbox

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:53 PM

View PostCharliePrince, on 26 September 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

umm.. Denravi is winning the game right now. You only look at a minute, a quarter, a half.. the entire game is being played and you're in the locker room taking a shower before the 1st qtr even ends?!

look.. you can use whatever excuse you want as to the beating and dominance Denravi is Forcefully Enforcing and Demonstrating to you but the bottom line is this..

when you lose, know why you're losing

do not make excuses

ps: "Zerg of Denravi" is the #1 server worldwide.. not NA.. not EU.. WorldWide. They're the Best.

"Know why you're losing" the dude said why he thinks they are losing. Anet provided the que data. The has factual evidence. I am not saying HoD is unskilled but amount of people covering all hours in WvW compared to all other servers is overshadowing a discussion on skill.

#38 MikeB21

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 05:26 PM

View PostVihar, on 26 September 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

HoD is the solution.

   They should never have designated servers as EU or NA...that is the problem.

   Also, far too many whiners and quitters in today's MMO players.

  They have no heart and no mental toughness. Just a bunch of mama's boys.

  They either quit when they are losing, or try to jump on the coattails of someone else's success so they can pretend they are good, too.

  You PVP for the joy of slaughter, not because of a scoreboard.

  Suck it up.

Wow... so much this it is oozing out of my screen.

#39 DarkWalker

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 05:35 PM

IMHO, you can have players locked into servers/factions, or you can have balance (by either moving players around as needed or by having them move by offering benefits for playing for the underdog), but you can't have both.

sPvP is fairly balanced because players aren't locked. The players can be shifted between blue and red as needed.

WvW is fairly imbalanced because it not only attempts to lock players to their servers - preventing potential player flows that could re-balance the game - but it also has a rewards structure that incentives players to just roll in the most successful servers. If it wasn't for the constant server reshuffling the results would already, most likely, be truly catastrophic - but the re-shuffling doesn't work for both the top and the bottom servers.

View Postpharmx, on 26 September 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Would separating the servers based on WvW population help? This would alleviate situations where you have low WvW coverage/high overall population and vice versa.

The server rankings already does this to some extent, but based on performance instead of population. So, no, it wouldn't make the situation any better than right now.

#40 Egwyne

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 05:54 PM

View PostQuietnine, on 26 September 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

are you serious? Denravi gets stomped on the weekends by SBI. It's embarassing.


You used the plural there - one weekend we got stomped, and stomped badly, whether it will happen again this weekend we do not know - one thing though - we sure as hell won't let it happy as easily.


View PostDarkWalker, on 26 September 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

IMHO, you can have players locked into servers/factions, or you can have balance (by either moving players around as needed or by having them move by offering benefits for playing for the underdog), but you can't have both.


I understand what you are saying but disagree - because of free transfers players were not locked, they had the equivelant of red team in sPvP winning, so all all other sPvP teams and colours joining them. If the W3 servers were locked from day one the W3 community would be more spread out, instead over the last 4 weeks they have pretty much ended up on just 3-4 servers.... it was a bad decision by AN.

#41 Quietnine

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 07:29 PM

View PostCharliePrince, on 26 September 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

umm.. Denravi is winning the game right now. You only look at a minute, a quarter, a half.. the entire game is being played and you're in the locker room taking a shower before the 1st qtr even ends?!

when you lose, know why you're losing

do not make excuses

ps: "Zerg of Denravi" is the #1 server worldwide.. not NA.. not EU.. WorldWide. They're the Best.

Excuses? Im on Denravi, im not making excuses. We got stomped last weekend. the ONLY reason we didn't get stomped the weekend before is because of SBI's rivalry with JQ.

When it comes to HoD vs SBI, HoD loses hands down unless its during the workday and our Euro's are fighting an empty field, sweeping up undefended keeps. That doesn't make us good. It makes us a European server in the NA bracket. saying we are number 1 world wide when we have only ever fought servers that don't actually field players during Euro hours is like saying you are the number one fighter in the world when you've only competed in one league.

Edited by Quietnine, 26 September 2012 - 07:55 PM.


#42 Pwnedd

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 07:45 PM

View PostQuietnine, on 26 September 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:



Excuses? Im on Denravi, im not making excuses. We got stomped last weekend. the ONLY reason we didn't get stomped the weekend before is because was SBI's rivalry with JQ.

When it comes to HoD vs SBI, HoD loses hands down unless its during the workday and our Euro's are fighting an empty field, sweeping up undefended keeps. That doesn't make us good. It makes us a European server in the NA bracket. saying we are number 1 world wide when we have only ever fought servers that don't actually field players during Euro hours is like saying you are the number one fighter in the world when you've only competed in one league.


lol SBI tailcoater impersonating as a fed up HoD player.

#43 Quietnine

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 07:53 PM

View PostPwnedd, on 26 September 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

lol SBI tailcoater impersonating as a fed up HoD player.

you got me. we have nothing to be fed up about, but this guy is acting like we are the pinnacle of what every server should be. if we can't be honest about our short comings and modest in our victories we're just a bunch of asshats.

#44 AugustusGraves

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 08:19 PM

View PostQuietnine, on 26 September 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

you got me. we have nothing to be fed up about, but this guy is acting like we are the pinnacle of what every server should be. if we can't be honest about our short comings and modest in our victories we're just a bunch of asshats.

Honestly, thanks for the dissent.  I'd probably be in your shoes as well if I was HoD.  We play this stuff looking for a good fight, and honestly during the NA peak hours the fight has been good, and fun.  But at the same time, seeing the absolute and sweeping destruction that happens while we're asleep or stuck at work is tremendously demoralizing.  It's going to change the way we play, and probably not for the better.

I've hinted at it in a few posts, but honestly... the most immediate results would be seen if some of HoD's off-hour WvW guilds would transfer over to these 'underdog' tiers.  Especially if ArenaNet never actually comes up with a new system or metric.  Because as bad as all this back-and-forth may get on the forums...  it's only going to get worse when the majority of lower tiered servers start saying things like:  

"JQ/SBI/ET are the current kings."  
"Wait..  I thought HoD was?"  
"Oh, I mean technically, but they've got a bunch of Chinese guilds capping everything when everyone's asleep.  So most people don't count them."  
"Man, that's pretty weak.  Yeah, screw those guys."

And that will be HoD's legacy.

#45 Jimmeh1993

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 08:29 PM

View PostAugustusGraves, on 26 September 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

Honestly, thanks for the dissent.  I'd probably be in your shoes as well if I was HoD.  We play this stuff looking for a good fight, and honestly during the NA peak hours the fight has been good, and fun.  But at the same time, seeing the absolute and sweeping destruction that happens while we're asleep or stuck at work is tremendously demoralizing.  It's going to change the way we play, and probably not for the better.

I've hinted at it in a few posts, but honestly... the most immediate results would be seen if some of HoD's off-hour WvW guilds would transfer over to these 'underdog' tiers.  Especially if ArenaNet never actually comes up with a new system or metric.  Because as bad as all this back-and-forth may get on the forums...  it's only going to get worse when the majority of lower tiered servers start saying things like:  

"JQ/SBI/ET are the current kings."  
"Wait..  I thought HoD was?"  
"Oh, I mean technically, but they've got a bunch of Chinese guilds capping everything when everyone's asleep.  So most people don't count them."  
"Man, that's pretty weak.  Yeah, screw those guys."

And that will be HoD's legacy.

Anyone who doesn't regard HoD as one of the top is a piece of work. You guys may not be the best in terms of skill, and may be lucky that you have a better timezone coverage than the other servers, but you're undefeated for a reason. Anyone who thinks differently is kidding themselves.

#46 Domynic

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:10 PM

HoD is the solution.


The problem is the butthurt - That even if everyone is given every opportunity and advantage to move onto another server entirely to match HoD's coverage, they wouldn't do it because right now, if someone came in here not knowing any better you'd think SBI and JQ murdered each other's families and ET stole everyone's peanut butter.

#47 Corvindi

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:15 PM

So much envy in this thread.  All four of us (HOD, SBI, ET, and JQ) have far and away more coverage than most other servers.  Any of us accusing any other server of nightshift shenanigans is a hypocrite.

#48 Mithrull

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:24 PM

View PostQuietnine, on 26 September 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

are you serious? Denravi gets stomped on the weekends by SBI. It's embarassing. The only reason HoD is #1 is because we have so many Euro's covering our backs during the daytime hours, that we win by default during the work days.

Here's a score from Sunday before last. Please point to said stompage.

Posted Image

You know I'm sure the TA guys are hearing all of this "HoD can't win without their off-peak players" nonsense. Short-term memories around here don't know how often they've gotten the better of everyone else at peak time, weekends and every other time. All it takes is a few days to wipe out a month of all-around dominance?

I wouldn't want to be SBI this weekend. I think some people will have point to prove.

#49 Zebes

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:29 PM

Everyone doing what Henge did would be a problem, or better put, it would introduce new problems.

#50 Sheinfam

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:33 PM

Please stop acting like HoD's NA primetime coverage is just riding on the coattails of their off-peak coverage. In a 1v1, they would stomp the other server 24/7 - including during NA hours. It's only in the 1v2 (or 1v (1v1), as was the case this weekend) where the sheer numbers are too much for them to maintain a steady lead.

#51 Quietnine

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:04 AM

View PostMithrull, on 26 September 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

Here's a score from Sunday before last. Please point to said stompage.

how bout i point to where i made specific mention of the JQ weekend and pat you on the head gently for almost reading my entire post.

i hope we do prove a point this weekend. im hoping pandas and pokemon will take some of the crud out of our queues.

#52 Mithrull

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:39 AM

View PostQuietnine, on 27 September 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

how bout i point to where i made specific mention of the JQ weekend and pat you on the head gently for almost reading my entire post.



I gave you an assignment. You're supposed to look at the map and tell my where the stompage is, not tell me why the stompage isn't there. You failed. Run along now little man and don't come back until you can support your assertion. I have about 12 instances of peak time Henge crushing peak time SBI. How many you got?

Lucky for SBI that ET and Henge have a rivalry though, else SBI would never have been fooled into thinking they could win.

#53 Nirvii

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 03:04 AM

I think the problem is that HoD had a coverage on all timezone. (US/EU/Asia)

Now you have two solutions to fill in better competition to HoD and to fix WvWvW
1) 24/7 coverage is what required to be top guold => Wait for hope, that there will be more EU/Asia guilds who wish to lose all their guild upgrades and transfer to SBI/ET/JQ to make more coverage for them => I'm sure this option will not exist if the guild doesnt allow to retain their upgrades while moving server. Nobody want to lose all what they built, it's too late to move now.

2) Change the rule so that the WvWvW dont require 24/7 coverage to be success => There are plenty of alternative ways to change the rule. Like if u choose NA server, there must be timeframe for WvWvW suits for NA server. If u choose EU server, that's gotta be EU timeframe for WvW, Ocenic/Asia, another timeframe. That way is a true region based server. I'm sure it's not intented that you expect a US server to have EU coverage??? Yes u might not able to WvW outside the timeframe, but that will make this a fair fight for everyone to fight in their peak timezone. Hell, dont expect every players to play 24/7 or have organized a alliance to cover all timezone like HoD, that's unrealistic.

I for one in ET, logged in on weekday and see nobody WvWvW because HoD got all the castle and have so many advantages with the stockpiles and all the castle utilities. I dont waste time ask my guild leader to bring pure 20 man out matching the full force 150+ ppl with full upgrades castles with siege weapons on hand... That's just too mission impossible thing. Right now the WvWvW is broken, in their flawed logic. They need to change the rule or else people will get boring on weekdays.

#54 Veles

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 03:21 AM

Players should win versus players, not versus empty "Keeps". 24/7 coverage and good organization and planning is just an excuse for being bad: "Hey gais, we are getting stomped when it matters (US prime time), but hey our EU allies will PVKeeps for us, making us bestest server evah!!!"

Winning like this is worthless, win only matters if it was hard, exciting and took some effort. This guy Quietnine is the only one who gets it, it seems.

#55 Not Titan Alliance

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:11 AM

View PostCharliePrince, on 26 September 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

ps: "Zerg of Denravi" is the #1 server worldwide.. not NA.. not EU.. WorldWide. They're the Best.

AMEN BROTHA. These other servers better cancel Christmas because we're bringing the lightning all day, erry' day.

#56 zj12345

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:14 AM

View PostVeles, on 27 September 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

Players should win versus players, not versus empty "Keeps". 24/7 coverage and good organization and planning is just an excuse for being bad: "Hey gais, we are getting stomped when it matters (US prime time), but hey our EU allies will PVKeeps for us, making us bestest server evah!!!"

Winning like this is worthless, win only matters if it was hard, exciting and took some effort. This guy Quietnine is the only one who gets it, it seems.

So what makes US primetime the only thing that matters? Is it the fact that there are more players around during that time? So basically all a server has to do to cheapen another server's win is to not show up, even if it was during US primetime right. When that happens it shouldn't matter then too. It would be good to let everyone know about this, it is so much easier to log off then fight to overcome a deficit.

#57 crowea

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:23 AM

View PostVeles, on 27 September 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

24/7 coverage and good organization and planning is just an excuse for being bad

Funniest thing I've read all day

#58 Seimore

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:30 AM

View PostVeles, on 27 September 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

when it matters (US prime time)

Why does only one prime time matter?

The main issue here is that ANet still hasn't released a method of server transferring that doesn't destroy a months worth of effort in creating your guild. This really doesn't help with their request for the players to even out the playing field. I know it might not seem like much to someone who isn't involved in WvW but a guild that has 0 upgrades claiming a keep can mean the difference in an overall battle hugely. Plenty of wvw focused guilds exist and are wanting to balance the playing field but have to give up all their work to do it, seems like a kick in the butt for doing the right thing, right?

Maybe that's just me who finds it silly.

#59 kashak

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:32 AM

Strange when your server is trouncing teir 2 its skill but when your getting trounced its all due to coverage and those funny skin coloured bads in other countries.

#60 crowea

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:39 AM

View Postkashak, on 27 September 2012 - 04:32 AM, said:

Strange when your server is trouncing teir 2 its skill but when your getting trounced its all due to coverage and those funny skin coloured bads in other countries.
That's what is weird about this. A good segment of players from ET were gloating, arrogant and obnoxious last week against ioJ and SoS and help to "ruin" the reputation of the server (a pity as there are good players on ET). Then all this waste off space whining after being outplayed by HoD?





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