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HoD: Solution or Problem

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#61 applebeefstew

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:47 AM

View PostQuietnine, on 27 September 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

how bout i point to where i made specific mention of the JQ weekend and pat you on the head gently for almost reading my entire post.

i hope we do prove a point this weekend. im hoping pandas and pokemon will take some of the crud out of our queues.

And you realize this weekend is no different cuz ET had their rivalry with HoD?

The only way to judge which server is better than which is to have a 1v1 which isn't possible in wvw.

#62 Nirvii

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:03 AM

To be honest, the battle which we fought on weekend with HoD and SBI was epic. Full force WvWvW never become this fun.However on weekday it's just sad. No one doing anything, All map were wiped by HoD, nobody want to move out to kill things because they dont want to spend effords fighting a gun with a stick. So called Night raid (or lack of EU/Oceanic support) is the problem.

I really have no idea why Anet allow WvWvW to be 24/7. There is a reason of why there is something called a peak time. If any server get the idea, and abuse the natural by bringing EU/Oceanic alliance to the server just to cover this hole while the others didnt organize that, it would become a huge blow. (like what happened now) Yes you can blame others for not having that organized/standard like you but it's just wrong. The problem is even worse with 2nd tier or 3rd tier.

To those winning faction, stop pretend to be elitist jerk and ignore all these fact. I'm sure if you're average person, you surely dont have much fun with 50vs5 people zerg run on nightshift of weekdays. There gotta be changes to address the night shift better.

#63 ColdBloodedKillah

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:07 AM

View PostNirvii, on 27 September 2012 - 05:03 AM, said:

To be honest, the battle which we fought on weekend with HoD and SBI was epic. Full force WvWvW never become this fun.However on weekday it's just sad. No one doing anything, All map were wiped by HoD, nobody want to move out to kill things because they dont want to spend effords fighting a gun with a stick. So called Night raid (or lack of EU/Oceanic support) is the problem.

I really have no idea why Anet allow WvWvW to be 24/7. There is a reason of why there is something called a peak time. If any server get the idea, and abuse the natural by bringing EU/Oceanic alliance to the server just to cover this hole while the others didnt organize that, it would become a huge blow. (like what happened now) Yes you can blame others for not having that organized/standard like you but it's just wrong. The problem is even worse with 2nd tier or 3rd tier.

To those winning faction, stop pretend to be elitist jerk and ignore all these fact. I'm sure if you're average person, you surely dont have much fun with 50vs5 people zerg run on nightshift of weekdays. There gotta be changes to address the night shift better.

No, it's not wrong. The people that wanted to win, organized to win. You didn't organize to win, so you don't deserve to.

Also, Anet allowed W3 to be 24/7 because it's a GLOBAL game. Anyone can play. Someones peak time is your off time. OH NO, YOU AREN'T THE ONLY TIMEZONE IN THE WORLD.

Edited by ColdBloodedKillah, 27 September 2012 - 05:08 AM.


#64 CharliePrince

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:10 AM

View Postkashak, on 27 September 2012 - 04:32 AM, said:

Strange when your server is trouncing teir 2 its skill but when your getting trounced its all due to coverage and those funny skin coloured bads in other countries.

this

100 times this

truth be told I take this entire thread personal because besides Sea of Sorrows, NO OTHER SERVER EXPERIENCES WHAT JANTHIR GOES THRU

you guys talk about how it's so unfair that Denravi has Oceanic coverage

flip the switch

do you guys think it's fair to play and crush Janthir during its dead zone which ironically includes our NA primetime?!

I don't think you realize how ridiculous ET's whining is right now

edit: and for the record: JQ, SBI, ET, Dragonbrand, Blackgate, Crystal Desert, Maguuma (yes Maguuma FFS) ALL destroys Janthir during NA hours.. it was not until this week, and this week alone that we were able to hand our International players a lead after reset

Edited by CharliePrince, 27 September 2012 - 05:11 AM.


#65 crowea

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:12 AM

View PostNirvii, on 27 September 2012 - 05:03 AM, said:

To be honest, the battle which we fought on weekend with HoD and SBI was epic. Full force WvWvW never become this fun.However on weekday it's just sad. No one doing anything, All map were wiped by HoD, nobody want to move out to kill things because they dont want to spend effords fighting a gun with a stick. So called Night raid (or lack of EU/Oceanic support) is the problem.

I really have no idea why Anet allow WvWvW to be 24/7. There is a reason of why there is something called a peak time. If any server get the idea, and abuse the natural by bringing EU/Oceanic alliance to the server just to cover this hole while the others didnt organize that, it would become a huge blow. (like what happened now) Yes you can blame others for not having that organized/standard like you but it's just wrong. The problem is even worse with 2nd tier or 3rd tier.

To those winning faction, stop pretend to be elitist jerk and ignore all these fact. I'm sure if you're average person, you surely dont have much fun with 50vs5 people zerg run on nightshift of weekdays. There gotta be changes to address the night shift better.
AA has australian/asian guilds on ET with some numbers (e.g. FOO and Res). My guess is they are not doing Wvw every night?

#66 Houdii

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:14 AM

Considering the saying goes "don't be part of the problem, be part of the solution" I definitely say HoD must be the problem. And all other servers are solutions, so yes, transfer there please :)

#67 Dridden

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:14 AM

Make the games last for 8 hours, so 3 resets a day. I think that would make it a lot more fun, and a bit more fair.

#68 CharliePrince

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:17 AM

View PostDridden, on 27 September 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

Make the games last for 8 hours, so 3 resets a day. I think that would make it a lot more fun, and a bit more fair.

fair to who?

./facepalm


#69 Dridden

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:21 AM

There would be more chances for wins/losses. There would be prime time games, and those would be a lot more challenging for us because everyone would have full coverage. Just a passing idea.

#70 phobos

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:22 AM

You're delusional.  No amount of "fairness adjustments" will make a poor server winners.

#71 Moka

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:24 AM

I reckon people need to change their perceptive on HoD.  Knowing they HoD have all the advantage is one thing, doing something to handle their advantage is another. 2 v 1 seems to be a valid strategy over Weekend executed by ET & SBI.

Just treat HoD as Zhaitan of WvW or something. 2 enemy server working to nail HoD down,  and you have all the advantages in the world.

Edited by Moka, 27 September 2012 - 05:25 AM.


#72 Kikimasu

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:37 AM

Close incoming transfers to HoD.

According to peak/off hours, results and current population, Anet reduce/merge the amount of servers, so we have potentially 12 servers with people 24/7 "and that's that".

#73 Ernesto

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 06:20 AM

View PostVeles, on 27 September 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

Players should win versus players, not versus empty "Keeps". 24/7 coverage and good organization and planning is just an excuse for being bad: "Hey gais, we are getting stomped when it matters (US prime time), but hey our EU allies will PVKeeps for us, making us bestest server evah!!!"

Winning like this is worthless, win only matters if it was hard, exciting and took some effort. This guy Quietnine is the only one who gets it, it seems.

There is massive competition during all timeslots. The difference is that sometimes, the losing side gives up and logs out after being beaten a few times, while others rise up and go again.

Last week we had fierce opposition on Sat-Tue and on Wednesday they gave up after we beat them on our map. There was still fighting on the other maps though.

This week, there was fierce combat Sat-Sun and modest opposition during Monday and after that, no opposition at all.


As I've said before: When we see a map that is totally overrun of enemies, we all scream "LET US IN LET US FIGHT LET US IN", while it seems that some others react to the same with "We are losing anyway so I am not gonna bother".

When we log in, most servers are High or FULL. It is not a problem with population. Although I have to admit, I haven't looked at server pop this week, but I did last week during the HoD/JQ/SBI match - Which was fantastic I would like to add.

#74 Melon is omg

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 07:22 AM

I didn't read this thread...much but i know what problems we have.

In other games, there is only 1 winner and 1 loser. Therefore 1/2 the people involved QQ.

The problem with WvWvW is that there is 2 losers and only 1 winner. That's a problem. Cause now you have 2/3 people QQing.

Anyway, real winners are the players that enjoy the game for what it is.

#75 badmartialarts

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 08:40 AM

The problem here is attitude.  When I am out in WvW, I wreck faces. (Or I get my face wrecked...but I prefer not to think about running into 40 man groups solo, yelling on vent "don't follow, don't follow!")  We got a guild group on, we wrecked Henge of Denravi everywhere they didn't build siege (even when they stopped midfield and BUILT siege, jeez....in the middle of a plain).  And we killed Stormbluff people too.  Why did CaLM leave Jade Quarry anyway, you guys were fun to run with in Beta, but ah well, you die easily enough to the caress of my axe.

Did it help our server win?  Heck no, we lost horribly.  We can't be on all night and day wrecking face.  Some of our work schedules are so heinous that we are lucky to get on twice a week. But in those moments of carnage, I know joy, and I thank every HoD, SBI, Dragonbrand, and Crystal Desert player who has died to my arrows, or who has killed me horribly.

That's what I want out of WvW and I get it.

Now, some people look at these 'scores' and they feel bad, because they are really high for one side, or the other.  I kind of feel bad that we are kicking Dragonbrand and Crystal Desert's teeth in.  I'm sure if HoD is in our matchup next week, they will get us back for you in spades. But I'm still gonna get to kill people.  And I'm still gonna try to get our guys pointed at supply routes, cutting off those valuable supplies that makes HoD able to win with their siege golem armies.  :)

#76 Jayce93

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:26 AM

View PostAugustusGraves, on 26 September 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:


"JQ/SBI/ET are the current kings."  
"Wait..  I thought HoD was?"  
"Oh, I mean technically, but they've got a bunch of Chinese guilds capping everything when everyone's asleep.  So most people don't count them."  
"Man, that's pretty weak.  Yeah, screw those guys."

And that will be HoD's legacy.

From the 'NA Players playtime only' point of view. That might be the case. From the Oceanic point of view, using the same egoism and mindset as the guy quoted above.

"HoD players are the best."  
"Wait..  What about the other servers in the same tier"  
"Oh, technically yeah, but all they do is put up weak fights while we are sleeping. When we wake up, we practically run them over as fast as a lawn mower."  
"Man, that's pretty weak.  Yeah, screw those guys."

No offense intended. Im merely using the same method to explain another point of view. SBI and ET has great players i cant deny that. But what's annoying is that everyone is saying we win by numbers, we have no skill, we cheat.

I think there isnt a need to put down fellow players even if they have something else that puts them at an advantage.

#77 Kikimasu

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:49 AM

Is not that hard


HoD    Peak hours people?   yes    Off hours people? yes
Others Peak hours people?   yes    Off hours people? no
Others Peak hours people?   no   Off hours people? yes


plus most of the people/guilds at HoD are WvW oriented, so..

Edited by Kikimasu, 27 September 2012 - 09:54 AM.


#78 Maderas_

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:51 AM

View PostJayce93, on 27 September 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

From the 'NA Players playtime only' point of view. That might be the case. From the Oceanic point of view, using the same egoism and mindset as the guy quoted above.

"HoD players are the best."  
"Wait..  What about the other servers in the same tier"  
"Oh, technically yeah, but all they do is put up weak fights while we are sleeping. When we wake up, we practically run them over as fast as a lawn mower."  
"Man, that's pretty weak.  Yeah, screw those guys."

No offense intended. Im merely using the same method to explain another point of view. SBI and ET has great players i cant deny that. But what's annoying is that everyone is saying we win by numbers, we have no skill, we cheat.

I think there isnt a need to put down fellow players even if they have something else that puts them at an advantage.

You can't possibly  believe that doing well when the queues are full on all sides is equivalent to doing well when your opponents have the Undermanned buff.

I've said it several times already: personally, I don't really give a shit about winning since it's pointless outside of ego anyway and I've known WvW 'competition' would be tainted by this sort of thing from the start. It's HoD getting offended that they aren't being treated like special snowflakes for winning every week while trying to underplay the elephant in the room that's annoying.

As far as the OP goes, I don't know what can be done to remedy it at this point. Arenanet dropped the ball by dividing servers by region if 24/7 coverage was meant to be the sole determining factor as to who wins WvW. But the current situation is not in any way healthy for the longevity of WvW as a whole. Anybody who thinks otherwise is either vastly overestimating the average player's willingness to continue doing something that isn't fun, or they're willfully ignorant.

It was still fun last week when we were losing, and there was at least token resistance from the (much smaller) SBI zergs trying to fight back throughout the night. Now that the resistance has all but evaporated? Yeah, wasn't so fun. First time I've logged out of WvW and felt like I wasn't missing anything. And it's only going to get worse as more and more people quit participating. The posters you see saying that some of the borderlands have less than 20 SBI online aren't exaggerating.

Edited by Maderas_, 27 September 2012 - 10:04 AM.


#79 EPIC Mara

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:06 AM

View PostVihar, on 26 September 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

HoD is the solution.

   They should never have designated servers as EU or NA...that is the problem.

   Also, far too many whiners and quitters in today's MMO players.

  They have no heart and no mental toughness. Just a bunch of mama's boys.

  They either quit when they are losing, or try to jump on the coattails of someone else's success so they can pretend they are good, too.

  You PVP for the joy of slaughter, not because of a scoreboard.

  Suck it up.


Posted Image

Nuff' said.

#80 Veles

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:20 AM

People got trolled I tell ya.

#81 Lord_Demosthene

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:50 AM

WvW is cruel, WvW is war. 24/7 coverage is part of the system and most important element of strategy, when it comes to consistency of results. It's the way that it is by design, and no amount of shameless whining will ever change that.

#82 AugustusGraves

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:27 PM

View Postphobos, on 27 September 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

You're delusional.  No amount of "fairness adjustments" will make a poor server winners.

If that was the case - then why worry and why fight it? ;)

#83 sagasaint

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:28 PM

View PostChamcham, on 26 September 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

Holy snykees someone actually gets it. I had this conversation over dinner with a friend of mine who leads one of the top wow raiding guilds. We came to the exact same conclusion, in a game like GW2 you PvP because you want to PvP not for a tangible reward or for shinies.

Just as in WoW you pve for a sense of reward and entitlement, in the top tier raiding scene.

Good on you sir, good on you.
in WoW you pve for a factual, tangible progression

not only your gear does get MUCH better, which enhances your character significantly, also its a gate that opens more content that you couldnt previously do without the right tier of gear.

all that is missing in GW2's WvW. There is no meaningful progression, neither in stats nor in accessible content. the only thing that could be argued is about bragging rights derived from cosmetic looks, and there, YMMV and find any other armor much better looking.


DAOC solved this with realm ranks. why we dont have such thing still amazes me. we already have sPvP for those who want a fair and square environment, there would be absolutly nothing wrong with some vertical progression to aim at when doing WvW....

Edited by sagasaint, 27 September 2012 - 12:31 PM.


#84 dreamtheater

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:45 PM

Ok, with the high population now on HoD, it's getting harder and harder for TA to field its forces. So what happens when population of HoD goes down in population and TA can start fielding its entire force? Only once has HoD been down by a significant amount is points, and that was this weekend. We have faced SBI and ET what 4 times now, so what changed? Night Capping, we have had that since day one, at times SBI has been able to keep up with us and provided solid competition during that time. High population, that’s just stupid, population meaning nothing when you can field only so many people in WvWvW, hell a low pop server and fill a WvWvW match. Everyone knew coming into this game WvWvW was about war at all times of the day. With TA knowing that this is war and war is 24 hours a day, they recruited guilds to cover the NA night time. Man up, get your own Alliance going, and make a difference for your own server, doing whatever that may be, instead of coming to forums, blaming ANET and raising hell.  Some people these days are such babies, still on their mom’s teets with no backbone at all. ANET should have stopped transfers after the first week of launch, this I do blame ANET for. All servers have the same opportunities as HoD period.

#85 Maderas_

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:54 PM

View Postkashak, on 27 September 2012 - 04:32 AM, said:

Strange when your server is trouncing teir 2 its skill but when your getting trounced its all due to coverage and those funny skin coloured bads in other countries.

Because being annoyed that all your points get PvDoored by Oceanic guilds while you sleep automatically means you're a racist who hates people from the Oceanic timezone, right? See this implied in the HoD thread a lot too with all the "WELL IF U DIDNT TREAT OCEANIC PPL LIKE TRASH MAYBE THEY ROLL ON UR SERVER LOL!"

Please stop perpetuating this retarded shit and trying to turn it into a racism thing; the countries/ethnicities involved make no difference aside from the fact that they're from a timezone which most other servers lack significant coverage for.

Being upset over Oceanic presence being the primary factor in determining WvW score does not mean one dislikes Oceanic players.

Edited by Maderas_, 27 September 2012 - 01:02 PM.


#86 Sheinfam

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:08 PM

View PostMaderas_, on 27 September 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

Because being annoyed that all your points get PvDoored by Oceanic guilds while you sleep automatically means you're a racist who hates people from the Oceanic timezone, right? See this implied in the HoD thread a lot too with all the "WELL IF U DIDNT TREAT OCEANIC PPL LIKE TRASH MAYBE THEY ROLL ON UR SERVER LOL!"

Please stop perpetuating this retarded shit and trying to turn it into a racism thing; the countries/ethnicities involved make no difference aside from the fact that they're from a timezone which most other servers lack significant coverage for.

Being upset over Oceanic presence being the primary factor in determining WvW score does not mean one dislikes Oceanic players.

I dont know what server you're on, so this might not be directed at you specifically.

Stormbluff can be mad about their lack of night presence, they kind of "stumbled" into the top bracket and now find themselves facing off against more "premeditated" servers. However, ET cannot, as the Ascension Alliance has as many if not more oceanics than the Titan Alliance.

ET has the players to fill all 4 maps during the night. Now, if their oceanics arent as good as TA's, or they just decide not to show up, that's on them. But they're there.

#87 Maderas_

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:35 PM

View PostSheinfam, on 27 September 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

I dont know what server you're on, so this might not be directed at you specifically.

Stormbluff can be mad about their lack of night presence, they kind of "stumbled" into the top bracket and now find themselves facing off against more "premeditated" servers. However, ET cannot, as the Ascension Alliance has as many if not more oceanics than the Titan Alliance.

ET has the players to fill all 4 maps during the night. Now, if their oceanics arent as good as TA's, or they just decide not to show up, that's on them. But they're there.

I'm on Stormbluff. Even putting aside ET, there's like, what, 2 other servers besides HoD that even have a slim prayer of being able to wih the oceanic coverage war? Of course there's going to be a lot of people who are less than thrilled with how the mechanics currently work.

#88 Seimore

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:55 PM

View PostMaderas_, on 27 September 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

Of course there's going to be a lot of people who are less than thrilled with how the mechanics currently work.

True, but is it ANet's job to cater to the ignorant? They've been stating for over a year how WvWvW would operate, and that it would be a 24 hour persistent access deal. It isn't ANet's duty to cater to the lives of laziness, but make a game and let the community make of it what they will. This created AA and TA came after that, alliances should be the norm for WvWvW, and they will be given enough time. People got their knickers in a twist so early into the game that they refuse to start working on building relationships with others and just want ANet to nerf the advantages of others.

Though if they fixed server transfers to stop people from coming to Henge that'd sure help. Along with allowing guilds to transfer and keep their guild upgrades. Possibly also have done this a week into the game when Henge hit max population and wasn't the focus of coat tail riders. <_<

It's at critical mass on Henge, it would be too little too late to get rid of the coat tails and the only solution would be for the proper wvwvw established guilds to move, meaning TA and many others. Then they're just into the same situation as ET, complaining that they're really good but only medium pop, they knew this would happen just as much as TA knows. We are smaller than AA alone, and don't have a RUIN guild to follow in our footsteps (as much as Freelancer may wish this wasn't the case.) :P

So what viable option is left? Suck it up, deal with the queues and wait for ANet to really knuckle down and figure out if they want whole guilds to transfer or not. We'll do something about it when it becomes available.

#89 Quietnine

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:58 PM

View PostMaderas_, on 27 September 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

You can't possibly  believe that doing well when the queues are full on all sides is equivalent to doing well when your opponents have the Undermanned buff.


As far as the OP goes, I don't know what can be done to remedy it at this point.

PVE'rs can be brought into the WvW fold through a Darkness Falls system from DAoC. Additionally, this would reduce the number of PvP's on the dominant realm anytime they are winning (cause they would opt to wipe the opposing faction from DF). DF is badly needed to keep WvW an interesting, long lasting endgame.

As far as Henge, the only thing Anet has to do to "kill" us is keep free transfers open for a long time. People haven't stopped flooding in, and it makes it harder and harder to field organized forces. Additionally, it gives our enemies more opportunities to improve their own coverage.

#90 MrZero

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:06 PM

View PostCharliePrince, on 27 September 2012 - 05:10 AM, said:


edit: and for the record: JQ, SBI, ET, Dragonbrand, Blackgate, Crystal Desert, Maguuma (yes Maguuma FFS) ALL destroys Janthir during NA hours.. it was not until this week, and this week alone that we were able to hand our International players a lead after reset


As an SBI player that plays during the late NA hours to the early Oceanic hours I'll throw him some credibility here.

He is 100% right. The times we playes IOJ people would log in and ask, "Where are they?" at least I play late so they would start logging in and have something to do. THese guys over there fight like a bunch of cornered badgers.





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