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Support guardian build for small-skirmish-WvW

guardian wvw support

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#1 Lypi

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:45 PM

Since I've always liked to be a healer/support I tried to come up with something along those lines.

What I mean with "small-skirmish-WvW": we roam around with a party of 5 trying to pick fights with other small groups of enemies.
What in reality most of the time happens: we end up against an overwhelming force, we kite until some of them over-extend and then we fight against 10+ uncoordinated ppl.
Anyway I'm requesting suggestions for the "VS another small coordinated group" scenario.

Build: http://gw2skills.net...2xujbH5OrNGbsDB
Stats: 1kish healing power, 1,6k toughness, 1,5k vitality

Sadly can't infer too much about what other classes in the party bring, since we're still switching setup constantly.

Things I'd expecially like to have feedback on:

- Most synergic change would be to bring 2 shouts, Superior Aria and Pure of Voice, but I'd like to keep Battle Presence since I have quite high healing power.

- Purging Flames: I don't quite like it, but since the only thing that I've fully traited are consecration and I'd like to have something that removes conditions that's quite a forced choice and in the end at least it applies some pression.

- valor line: no Superior Aria since I have a single shout, Two-Handed Mastery even with a single 2h weapon, Writ of Exaltation to make symbols almost-usable, no room for other symbol-enhancing traits (Writ of Persistence/the Merciful seem quite lackluster)
- virtues line: sticking with Consecrated Ground even if bringing only Sanctuary

- weapons: staff has high-uptime speed and heals, shield brings protection and disruption, mace brings sustain, but I was thinking about scepter with the ranged immobilize.

- switching from Runes of Earth (protection) to Runes of Dwayna (regen) not counting the loss in statistics, since I can shuffle gear to make up for it: Dwayna seem more synergic with the high healing power, but Earth brings protecion wich I can only get reliably from shield.

Thanks in advance for feedback and feel free to ask about explanation on any particular choice.

#2 Xothguk

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:35 PM

Hey, we can not see your build because the site that you uploaded is down for a few days. Can you share it in another skill builder ?

#3 Amins

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:19 AM

I use a 0/0/20/20/30 build w/ 2 Runes of Monk, 2 Runes of Water & 2 Runes of Earth (sometimes swap water for earth for the 4th set bonus).

I run w/ Wall of Reflection, Save Yourself (condition removal) and Stand your Ground (a whooping 8.5s on a short cooldown... btw, consecrated/hallowed ground goes for 16s but has a really long cooldown)

I'm actually running Vigil (pwr/tough/vit) gear w/ Sapphire Excotics & weapons.  My +healing is just under 1k.

Also note, equip Energy Sigils in both weapons and then Chill on Septer.  With my dodge healing 900, i can easily get 2700 health in a matter of 3-4sections for nearby's with swaping weapons.

I typically will sub out Save yourself w/ Santuary, or if running GS SYG w/ Retreat (32s of speed is insane!).

I like Septer/Shield + Staff/GS, however, the block from mace i'm seeing crit for over 2k.lol


To address a point specifically, at least 20pts in Virtues will get you Increased passive healing and, more importantly, 3 condition removals upon use for nearby enemies.

running GS+Whirlling = condition removal/retal.

Save yourself = all conditions removed from nearby's.

Also, educate your group on what your staff symbol does. Let them know to use thier combo's to remove thier own condition/retailiation.

Cheers,

Amins

Edited by Amins, 04 October 2012 - 02:21 AM.


#4 Lypi

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:22 PM

I've tried a couple of other builders, but none is working for me atm, I'll hard-type it.

- Staff of Water and Mace of Water/Shield of Leeching
- Shelter/SyG/WoR/Sanctuary/ToC
- Runes of Earth

- Purity
- Writ of Exhaltation/Two-Handed Mastery/Battle Presence
- Consecrated Ground/Master of Consecration/Absolute Resolution

I still have some of my doubts:

Mace for sustain or scepter or even drop staff for hammer or even something/focus
Shuffle Valor traits due to different weapons.
Sigil of Energy instead of Water/Leeching.

Edited by Lypi, 04 October 2012 - 09:33 PM.


#5 Luxiom

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:20 AM

I feel I could add here :)

I main a Guardian and my time is spent running a WvW support spec. I run with a bigger team then you usually but think this still holds:
http://www.guildhead...vRm9MxGGVRqMsMk
(remember the shield traits are consolidated now)

That is _almost_ the build I'm running and do run it from time to time. Wall of reflection is crucial in the way we play with a lot of last stands and area denial holding our ground. So we are several Guardians rotating our Line of Warding and Wall of Reflection.

I don't think you need this so you can go for Shouts instead.

The big choice is between 30 in valor or 30 in honor. It is more or less Altruistic Healing vs. Pure of Voice.

AH will make you die last every time. Staff 4 Empower has a real (if any) high AoE cap and if you have say 6 allies around you will heal yourself for 69*3*4*7=5796 just from the might stacking. That is 1932 per effected target from AH. And then it has a 2500 heal on top of that with 1000 healing power :P

PoV is great if conditions is a problem for your team. Don't think it needs any more explanation then that.

Battle Presence is ok as your allies still get the passive even if you active Resolve.

With a high amount of healing the increased elite length really shines. Your team will stand as long as this is up and it will be for most fights when it is needed and it last long enough to break them (you'll get less lootbags tough).

The next question is gear. I don't think more then ~900 Healing Power is needed. The max you can get is 1365. The scaling for the go-to heals are (X= Healing Power):
Empower 1500+0,5X
Dodge roll: 169+1X
Orb of Light: 660+0,4X
Virtue of Resolve active: 1625+0,75X
Heal Area (Tome of Courage 1): 1320+0,5X

The difference, on average, if you disregard the dodge roll heal that is only useful with a lot of healing the average difference between ~1300 HP and ~900HP is +16% (22% with the dodge roll in the average). But building for that much HP gimps you in damage and survivability in a big way.

I would say to go for a mix of POW/tough/Vit gear (like full trinkets) and then full HEALING/Vit/Precision armor and HEALING/Tough/Pow weapon and Jewels. I have played around A LOT with Excel and this is the gear that gives the most damage and Effective Health Points (armor with HP) while maintaining a 900+ Healing Power. This is do to how stats interact ans scale together. Mixing it up often gives more overall performance and balance.

Sigils: Rune of energy is boss! Just like you have already figured out. Dodge roll healing is a important Guardian skill when stacking Healing Power. For the scepter a "on crit" rune isn't worth it. Yours crit is to low. Go with straight damage increase like Force or a stacking "on kill" sigil if you don't die a lot.

Runes: A couple of choices. Divinity increased the effectiveness of the hole build in all aspects by a small amount. I don't really like the Healing Power runes, the benefit from the special traits feel week. Rune of the Earth or Forge really gives a lot more survivability. Rune of the Soldier have been reported to also affect allies, have not tried this myself, but if it does it would turn you build into a support monster also removing conditions with AoE. And as the soldier runes give vit/tough it might be possible to drop the Signet of Judgment for a third Utility skill like Wall/SY/Sanctury etc.

Edited by Luxiom, 05 October 2012 - 11:26 AM.


#6 Intercrew

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 01:50 PM

I'm currently 20/5/20/20/5 but thinking of dipping 10 points from zeal to valor for the altrustic healing.

My gear atm is all knight exotic including my greatsword.

I've been thinking of GS and either Staff or sword/shield (switching between certain situations).

So basically I only get 200 healing power from honor and thats that. Unless I decided to get the Cleric's pearl quarterstaff i'll bump my healing to 379 from 179 healing power from the staff.

Will it be a good idea to go for that? Or should I just stick to my current build and get an AC staff or any other kind (basically same stat) of power/vit/tough for just buffing people.

I've been fine with small groups and to be honest I rarely die unless I go nuts and pull a bunch of server players.

EDIT: I decided to go all Knight because I rather sustain and heal up most of my health than have giant health pool without being able to endure while doing dmg and no healing power to regen some of that giant health pool.

Only problem is that I'm weak to condition built but it's easily solvable with condition removable traits or skills

Edited by Intercrew, 05 October 2012 - 01:52 PM.


#7 Lypi

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:32 PM

View PostIntercrew, on 05 October 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

I'm currently 20/5/20/20/5 but thinking of dipping 10 points from zeal to valor for the altrustic healing.

My gear atm is all knight exotic including my greatsword.

I've been thinking of GS and either Staff or sword/shield (switching between certain situations).

So basically I only get 200 healing power from honor and thats that. Unless I decided to get the Cleric's pearl quarterstaff i'll bump my healing to 379 from 179 healing power from the staff.

Will it be a good idea to go for that? Or should I just stick to my current build and get an AC staff or any other kind (basically same stat) of power/vit/tough for just buffing people.

I've been fine with small groups and to be honest I rarely die unless I go nuts and pull a bunch of server players.

EDIT: I decided to go all Knight because I rather sustain and heal up most of my health than have giant health pool without being able to endure while doing dmg and no healing power to regen some of that giant health pool.

Only problem is that I'm weak to condition built but it's easily solvable with condition removable traits or skills

You want chances to apply lot of boons if you get AH, in that regard staff's Empower does wonder if you manage to get it off.

If I've understood your stats, you should have plenty of toughness and might be quite low on vitality for my likings, you can fix that and get some healing power in the process with a Healing/Vitality/Precision staff.

Edited by Lypi, 06 October 2012 - 08:32 PM.


#8 Intercrew

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:31 PM

View PostLypi, on 06 October 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

You want chances to apply lot of boons if you get AH, in that regard staff's Empower does wonder if you manage to get it off.

If I've understood your stats, you should have plenty of toughness and might be quite low on vitality for my likings, you can fix that and get some healing power in the process with a Healing/Vitality/Precision staff.

I just find it odd that warriors have way more toughness, with my calculations my toughness will only be around 2000 mark while my buddies warriors have 2500 toughness, kinda ironic

#9 foofad

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:11 AM

You're going to have to elaborate on that Intercrew. Everyone has the same base toughness, the same chances to acquire it from items, and the same bonus from a toughness trait line. Unless Warriors have a spectacular toughness granting trait (that isn't the shield one, because Guardians have that too - and Turtle doesn't count either, it's situational) that I don't know about (spoilers, they don't) you might want to show your work.

#10 Lypi

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:17 PM

Actually, afaik, warriors have more starting hp, since thye belong to the high-hp classes and guadians belong to the low-hp classes.
That's why I said you might want to trade just a bit of toughness for vitality, even on just your weapon.





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