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So I've hit lvl 80 and I have some ideas for Minion Master Necro. Need input...

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#1 theoxygenthief

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 08:45 AM

Some initial thoughts:
-The higher your toughness is relative to your vitality, the more effective your vampiric/life leeching and healing skills and abilities become. (healing 100 hp per tick on 10k hp is a bigger percentage than 100hp on 20k hp). Thus I'm thinking armours & runes that boost toughness, precision, conditional damage & power (in that order). Please can anyone confirm whether healing and leeching is Lvl based or % of HP based?

-I want to prove that a MM build can work AWESOMELY in WvW and PvE. I have no interest in playing Necro in PvP atm. I want minimal or no respeccing when switching from PvE to WvW. So far my MM is PWNing in PvE. I am soloing comfortably in Malchor's Leap and I can solo some of the group events comfortably in Straits of Devastation (but don't even talk to me about the avatars of Lyssa skillpoint -.-), only using gear I've picked up in battle and from the occasional karma merchant with absolutely no optimization so far and unused upgrade slots all over the show. I've only played 2 nights of WvW so far and my kill counter is showing 200+ kills. I was running at a nice profit in WvW even buying quite a few blueprints along the way. 1vs1 I wasn't doing great, and I don't believe 1vs1 is the point of WvW. I was running around with a ranger and warrior from my guild and as a 3 man team we were comfortably routing groups of up to 10 enemy players (yes, they were probably still cwap at WvW, we're on one of the lowest ranked servers). I feel the combination of a wall of bodies and condition & heal spams help small and big groups a LOT in WvW.

-Minion AI is currently SHYYYTTEEE. My flesh golem spends large portions of combat counting it's toes, yet despite that I'm still faring well. Arenanet is sure to fix that AI in a future build so MM will only become more powerful, it's a great investment in the future :-P

-I am getting MORE than enough healing through my skillchain w/o using my heal skill, and thus I'm using the minion skill in my heal slot. That sly monkey is actually VERY resilient and quite handy i found.

-Most people, including myself, know F-ALL about great builds for all the classes for now. All talk of "X-class is TOTALLY overpowered/underpowered!" should be ignored for at least another month.

-Okay I'm tired of typing now, will add in more thoughts as I go along. Hoping to hear some great constructive input

PS. PLEASE don't start the "no, MM is stupid, go wells or DD or whatever instead" thing. Like I said I love MM and I'm out to prove it's awesome, I just want constructive input not dissuasion.

Thanks!

#2 BeyondThyGrave

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:03 AM

I've wanted to do a MM build because what better is a necromancer known for than having summoned creatures around them. Only thing is, whenever I do see a MM necro( which is rare) the minions will stare at an opponent for atleast half the fight. One use i've heard of is the exploding summons, but having just those with high cool downs seems a bit useless. If they fix the ai I could see a MM build being OP and entertaining. I have yet to see it in wvw so I would be curious to see that outcome. Otherwise good luck to you, would like to get a build going for it.

#3 xlsangrelx

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:39 AM

MM will works awesomely in wvw and pve the day that they will fix the horrible AI.
I think that there's nothig to say about a MM build... you have just to spent on the same traits as awlays (+30% atk, +50% hp, leech per attack, etc.) and go on... no special tips for this build... not until the minion control is so "random" like now.

Anyway, I think that the hp siphoning is lvl based, not hp % based... don't expect to leech 100 hp at 28000 hp and 50 at 14000 hp (but I'm not totally sure about that...).

#4 Ravenear

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 02:57 PM

I have MM build on necro when i play solo PvE. I have 100% wold completion and with my MM build i have not found any dificulity doing it. Yeah i hate minion AI their are sometimes noobs dont fight when they should juts watching like im fighting. As for healing i prefer something else Consume conditions is more usful for me expecialy when i want run some parts with no fighting - minions take agro.

Im using this build http://gw2skills.net...2krJZTjF2L8WYuA becouse i wanted mix 2 things which i like on necro minions and conditions. All armor(7/6 rune of undead), weapons, jewelery are condition - power - vitality. 25k hp realy healps when im doing dungeons. But in dungeons minions most of time are not good they die to fast with small ocasions where they are use as distraction.

But most important is to play the way which you feel most pleasure there are no bad builds - only player skill sometimes need to be improved with time :P

#5 takarazuka

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 02:58 PM

View Postxlsangrelx, on 28 September 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

Anyway, I think that the hp siphoning is lvl based, not hp % based... don't expect to leech 100 hp at 28000 hp and 50 at 14000 hp (but I'm not totally sure about that...).

Correct - Life Siphon and any HP leeching is level based.  It's a pittance amount really.... though in a discussion with several other people about it, they reasoned that our life siphons are so low because we have one of the highest base health ratings in the game.  Since we have more health to play with our relative healing is lower.  Imagine a vampire necro with 26k HP that had the healing that guardians or full venom thieves do.... I honestly think that we would be unstoppable.

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#6 OChunx

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 02:53 AM

I'm not really sure what this thread is about other than just expressing our current thoughts on the minion master as takarazuka essentially answered the only question posed in the OP.

I really have mixed feelings about the MM. On the one hand, you are probably the most durable build in the game. With 6 other bodies, you with the highest base vitality in the game, a second health bar in the form of death shroud, and being ranged so you can easily kite, the only deaths you will ever have will likely be from falling. Really, the ONLY thing different about a necro that goes conditionmancer or well spec is that conditionmancers have epidemic. The recharge of wells is simply too long and its duration too short for wells to make any meaningful impact in a build outside from long dungeon fights (if a monster is taking over a minute to kill, you are playing wrong). Honestly, you could completely pull off being a full conditionmancer and a full minion master as long as you have 30 in curses and 20 in death magic.

Using a staff as a power or conditionmancer is hardly better than using a staff with 6 more minions as well. I won't say that traiting in curses is trivial in influencing your staff damage output, but even with the addition of (completely guessing here) 25% more damage as a curses traited conditionmancer, it is only taking a few less seconds to kill things than as a minion master (when the minions don't attack). And when all your minions do attack, you outdamage conditionmancers by a ton.

Even now, I'd say that minion master is the single best build in terms of damage and survivablity that a necromancer can run. But as soon as I hit level 80, I switched my necro over to conditionmancer as well. In the end, the downfall of being a minion master is it's speed. Minions slow you down so much by pulling monsters to attack you, it becomes a struggle simply to walk a few yards without having to engage in another battle. And if you go like "screw it, you're on your own minions", you are forced to enter into your next engagement with severely damaged minions or dead minions, forcing you in either case to have to wait for the recharge before any big battle (unless you don't care about fighting at full strength of minions, which is a psychological barrier I feel many people can't overcome).

So in the end, despite the fact that you can outdamage a conditionmancer and the fact that you never die, you end up taking 50% longer to do the same thing as other necros or other classes because the AI just significantly slows you down, and this isn't even counting the fact that they never attack. I with minions would just regen out of battle and actually attack when you attack, not when they get attacked. That would fix all the problems with minions.

#7 Skein

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:59 AM

My feelings on MM being viable are the same as others have expressed in this thread.  Durable, great damage when the AI is working and fun to play.  I leveled as MM and played for a couple weeks at level 80 in Orr and Frostgorge before switching to conditionmancer due to the AI issues.

The issue isn't that MM isn't viable, it's just unreliable when your minions need to do their job.

When the AI does get fixed, count on me switching back to MM.

#8 GrrBabble

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 05:00 PM

Does anyone know why Necromancers were not given a (ranger) pet bar? I understand they are "temporary" and not companions so to speak but it might have eliminated the AI issues.

I want to like Minions and enjoy using them, sometimes. Watching them stand still or run off to smash an environment object while aggroing a camp, just makes me want put them back in the dirt.

I also find Minions are often wasted in crowded dynamic events. Aside from death nova.

Another question, does +healing affect siphon effects? (could just log into mists and play around but can't right now.)





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