744 replies to this topic

[Gilles VI]

Darthdevil, on 23 November 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

Just btw , does anybody know why we dont get a completition reward in fractals ? I mean ep , silver and karma . Thats a big thing i am missing , it feels somehow so unfinished to complete 3 fractals without recieving something .

Because the drops are so much better than in any other dungeon.
I made ~12gold by doing just a couple of levels.
My guild leader farmed 70 ectos over 2 days.

That isn't possible in other dungeons and makes up for it.

[Ritualist]

Gilles VI, on 24 November 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

Because some people understand that a MMO with no gold sinks will have a huuuuge inflation.
It's basic economics really..

And would you find a MMO casual when lots of weapons cost millions of gold?
In the MMO you suggest people that join later will have a huge distance to gap simply because they joined later.

GW1 offered gear from vendors. Those guys had unlimited quantity of items at a set price - a VERY affordable set price. That meant each and every player had easy access to the needed items.
On top of that, we ALL went into GW2 knowing that it's a game where vanity is SUPPOSED to be ground for. Which means that inflation causing vanity to become more expensive really doesn't matter. Not everyone is supposed to have them.

And last but not least, folks are accepting the need to have gold sinks. What's being questioned here is the necessity of gold sinks that negatively impact some VERY desired elements of an online game.

Edited by Protoss, 24 November 2012 - 04:34 PM.

[Gilles VI]

Protoss, on 24 November 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

GW1 offered gear from vendors. Those guys had unlimited quantity of items at a set price - a VERY affordable set price. That meant each and every player had easy access to the needed items.
On top of that, we ALL went into GW2 knowing that it's a game where vanity is SUPPOSED to be ground for. Which means that inflation causing vanity to become more expensive really doesn't matter. Not everyone is supposed to have them.

And last but not least, folks are accepting the need to have gold sinks. What's being questioned here is the necessity of a gold sinks that negatively impact some VERY desired elements of an online game.

Armor & weapons were the only items you needed in GW1.
Whereas in GW2 there are much more items people trade, so inflation would affect those aswell, and not only gear.

And if you remember GW1 correctly, and not the perfect/best MMO ever as some people here think they've played, you would know what a big inflation there was on the vanity items as you call them.
In my opinion in GW2 it's alot easier to distinguish yourself from others by choosing your armor and w/e.
While in GW1 the 15k armor sets were kinda expensive for most, obby/vabbi being out of reach for most people, and any cool looking weapon costing tons of ectos.

[Gremlin]

There is good grind and bad grind in games and gw2 contains both.

Good grind are the things that while not part of completing the basic game can be used to improve a character slightly mainly by appearance, GW2 has this.

Bad grind is where  you have to do boring repetitive tasks to finish the basic game GW2 does not have this

What GW2 does have a lot of grind to equip a character decently, I am not talking exotics here I am just talking abut Weapons Armour and Storage.

I would have thought that by lvl 80 I could afford to buy basic lvl 80 gear and probably Max out my storage.
Sadly 20 slot bags are way to expensive so am going to have to craft my way there.

[jacksj1]

As far as WvW is concerned the present state of the game is that it is dieing. I'm sure ANet know this from their metrics.

They are on the case in terms of implementing progress/rewards, but I suspect they will be too late rolling it out. Rift knew exactly what it needed to do from launch on, but they were constantly behind the curve releasing stuff before they lost too many players. GW2 looks like being the same.

[Raveous]

Yes, the game is still fun, and I'm still loving it.

can't wait to see what content Anet pumps out next.

[Ritualist]

Gilles VI, on 24 November 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

Armor & weapons were the only items you needed in GW1.
Whereas in GW2 there are much more items people trade, so inflation would affect those aswell, and not only gear.

And if you remember GW1 correctly, and not the perfect/best MMO ever as some people here think they've played, you would know what a big inflation there was on the vanity items as you call them.
In my opinion in GW2 it's alot easier to distinguish yourself from others by choosing your armor and w/e.
While in GW1 the 15k armor sets were kinda expensive for most, obby/vabbi being out of reach for most people, and any cool looking weapon costing tons of ectos.

The most expensive items were super expensive because A.Net made them drop in absolutely non-existent numbers - which means that regardless of inflation, those items would have been insanely expensive.
As for vanity gear being expensive - that's EXACTLY what we signed up for. Yes, I would have preferred if they were less expensive, but ultimately - if I have to choose between people choosing to not travel around and playing with their friends because they can't justify the waypoint fee OR people not getting pretty outfits, while being able to get max-stats gear that looks plain - I am ALL for expensive high-end stuff.

This basically boils down to: do we want to have people starve so that our HDTVs are cheaper, or do we give everyone access to food and in return raise the costs of our HDTVs?

[Gilles VI]

Protoss, on 24 November 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

The most expensive items were super expensive because A.Net made them drop in absolutely non-existent numbers - which means that regardless of inflation, those items would have been insanely expensive.
As for vanity gear being expensive - that's EXACTLY what we signed up for. Yes, I would have preferred if they were less expensive, but ultimately - if I have to choose between people choosing to not travel around and playing with their friends because they can't justify the waypoint fee OR people not getting pretty outfits, while being able to get max-stats gear that looks plain - I am ALL for expensive high-end stuff.

This basically boils down to: do we want to have people starve so that our HDTVs are cheaper, or do we give everyone access to food and in return raise the costs of our HDTVs?

I find the "WP costs are so high I can't play with friends ridiculous" in the first place, 1 WP from 1 side to other side at lvl80 costs 4s50c or so, that money is retrieved by doing 3 DE's or like ~4-8 normal drops.
Why are you even going to that WP if you don't even get one of those to pay back for the usage of the WP??

Your conclusion fits pretty well, except that Anet doesn't starve people, there is plenty of money to make just by playing relaxed, but people forget that..

[Ritualist]

Gilles VI, on 24 November 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

Why are you even going to that WP if you don't even get one of those to pay back for the usage of the WP??

And that is EXACTLY why most of the game is completely dead.

[Gilles VI]

Protoss, on 24 November 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

And that is EXACTLY why most of the game is completely dead.

No zones are dead because there is nothing to do for people that outlevelled them.

My question again, why would you use a WP if there is nothing to do there that would make you the money back?
That also includes helping a friend, doing any DE/heart, gathering any resource,...
Becayse any of those will give you the WP money back within minutes.

[Gremlin]

I can easily get WP money back but in this game every penny counts, so its important not to use WPs too often.

Right now I am still exploring the maps when I have a full pack and there is nothing I want to salvage I need to get to a merchant or a crafting station to access my bank.
Its Boring and needlessly time consuming to run everywhere and using WPs is the obvious thing to do but not when they cost money.
I would like to simply reach a point in my exploring WP back to Lions arch sell and store gear buy new salvage kits WP back to where I started from and continue.
That is much more fun.

I would also add that there are many events happening on maps I am on and using a WP is the way for everyone to get there quickly and join in all to often I run there and arrive to late or find group events where I am the only player around.

Give players a reason to repopulate all the map areas instead of turning just a couple into farming centers.
Its important to keep players interested, you might just do that if loot was better across the whole game and travel was free.
That way when I see a call for help doing something I might respond.

Edited by Gremlin, 24 November 2012 - 01:17 PM.

[Ritualist]

Gilles VI, on 24 November 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

No zones are dead because there is nothing to do for people that outlevelled them.

My question again, why would you use a WP if there is nothing to do there that would make you the money back?
That also includes helping a friend, doing any DE/heart, gathering any resource,...
Becayse any of those will give you the WP money back within minutes.

Since the game charges you for everything, folks start to see everything through how much it costs. Everything you do comes with a cost, and with most of us having limited time to play - you might as well be wasting time on things that pay out the highest.
I earned my FoW sets by making new characters and simply playing through the game. In GW2, with the costs of living being so high that you'll mostly be just breaking even, that kind of playstyle simply doesn't make sense. Of course, this kind of game will also be less fun - but the good thing is that playing it is completely optional.

Edited by Protoss, 24 November 2012 - 01:53 PM.

[Gilles VI]

Protoss, on 24 November 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

Since the game charges you for everything, folks start to see everything through how much it costs. Everything you do comes with a cost, and with most of us having limited time to play - you might as well be wasting time on things that pay out the highest.
I earned my FoW sets by making new characters and simply playing through the game. In GW2, with the costs of living being so high that you'll mostly be just breaking even, that kind of playstyle simply doesn't make sense. Of course, this kind of game will also be less fun - but the good thing is that playing it is completely optional.

Charges you if you die? Easy start playng better.
Charges you if you use a WP? Easy just play 5 minutes every time you use a WP and you'll break even.

[Ritualist]

Gilles VI, on 24 November 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

Charges you if you die? Easy start playng better.
Charges you if you use a WP? Easy just play 5 minutes every time you use a WP and you'll break even.

Or, as I said, we don't even need to play GW2.
I mean, clearly the game would be better if people stopped playing instead of the game's vanity items potentially becoming slightly more expensive as the game loses some of the gold sinks that hurt the poor/bad/adventurers/... more.

Edited by Protoss, 24 November 2012 - 02:23 PM.

[Gilles VI]

Protoss, on 24 November 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

Or, as I said, we don't even need to play GW2.
I mean, clearly the game would be better if people stopped playing instead of the game's vanity items potentially becoming slightly more expensive as the game loses some of the gold sinks that hurt the poor/bad/adventurers/... more.

It's your own choice if you don't want to play because of these minor things.
Personally I don't care about them and I am having a good time despite the things that annoy me personally.

[Tiglatpilesar]

Quote

No zones are dead because there is nothing to do for people that outlevelled them.

My question again, why would you use a WP if there is nothing to do there that would make you the money back?
That also includes helping a friend, doing any DE/heart, gathering any resource,...
Becayse any of those will give you the WP money back within minutes.

This is not about making money it's about not loosing it, that's not the same. I may spend an hour in game chatting with the frined and i am still keep my cash but if you add some tariff to in game chat then ingame communication will decrease. Players who play for profit would play for it regardless, players who doesn't think think this way also have to play for cash becasue game funnels them in this direction. Personally i love vistisng different zones even, even low levels because i like the setting and there are tons od DE that i havn't participated in.

And belive me i can give you weekly schedual of my activty ( ~ roughly 1 hour daily and 2 hours weekend that involve actually playing the game: jumping puzzles, DE, gathering resources that due to frequent use of WP nets me in debit ).

Quote

It's your own choice if you don't want to play because of these minor things.
Personally I don't care about them and I am having a good time despite the things that annoy me personally.

Exacly so what are you arguing for anyway then ? Even with removel of WP costs you won't be returning to low levels areas or using them extensivly, you will keep on farming and grinding what ever you like to farm and grind and looks only for what nets you biggest profit.

Edited by Tiglatpilesar, 24 November 2012 - 02:32 PM.

[Ritualist]

Gilles VI, on 24 November 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

It's your own choice if you don't want to play because of these minor things.
Personally I don't care about them and I am having a good time despite the things that annoy me personally.

Of course. The question is - do we think GW2 players are rich enough (in in-game currency) or addicted enough for this concern to not matter?

[Arquenya]

Gremlin, on 24 November 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

I can easily get WP money back but in this game every penny counts, so its important not to use WPs too often.

Its Boring and needlessly time consuming to run everywhere and using WPs is the obvious thing to do but not when they cost money.
I would like to simply reach a point in my exploring WP back to Lions arch sell and store gear buy new salvage kits WP back to where I started from and continue.
That is much more fun.

Very true.

That thy WP costs is not really the point, it's that even transporting to a WP 10 yards away already costs 1s33 - which is waaay too much.
For most players 6-7 silver per usage (for going to a place and back) is still a significant amount.

In other games with payed transport the costs are lower compared to your income.
In GW2 they seriously hamper you in saving for whatever you want to buy. Hence most players try to avoid it as much as possible.
I really wonder if that was the intention behind it, to create an artifical time sink.

Edited by Arquenya, 24 November 2012 - 03:20 PM.

[GW2Ranger]

Sprinks, on 29 October 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

For me, GW2 still has more potential than any other MMO on the market at the moment. Coming from WoW, it was time for a change, and for me personally, GW2 has delivered.

I think the game released with an utterly massive amount of content. It's comforting to know that ANet is committed to releasing what seems to be a major content patch every month or two. That's promising, and something only a few other MMOs can boast. It's also comforting to see how nimble the developers at ANet have the ability to be. When an exploit or game-breaking bug is found, they are able to shift their focus and fix it as soon as possible (the manner in which they fix some of them is controversial, I know - another conversation for another time).

As others have mentioned, it seems as if the problem here is the player. The expectations are too high. It's unreasonable to expect a game (or application) of this magnitude to release without bugs. It's unreasonable to expect a game to come out with infinite content. It doesn't seem as if the people that complain could ever be realistically satisfied. Ideas are suggested and often preceded by the phrase, "It would be easy to..." With hundreds of thousands of people playing and millions of lines of code, nothing that appears easy is easy.

Personally, I'm at 350+ hours, and I cannot tell you the last time I got that much enjoyment out of a game for $60.

I would agree with you on most parts.

But the only thing I wish they would do is listen to us for once when it comes to rangers.

Just remove that silly slow motion behavior when our rangers get seen by foes and starts to enter slow motion mode holding the bow with 2 hands when running. It truly takes out any sense of fun despite the game's dynamic system and beautiful graphics.

I found myself haven't been logging in for weeks ever since they ignored various avenues of reporting/suggesting the above to them. Cause it just ain't fun seeing your character go slow motion every few seconds despite the fact that nothing is hitting you.

Edited by GW2Ranger, 24 November 2012 - 03:25 PM.

[Gilles VI]

Protoss, on 24 November 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

Of course. The question is - do we think GW2 players are rich enough (in in-game currency) or addicted enough for this concern to not matter?

Rich enough in my opinion. As I said countless times before now, play for 5 mins and you deserved your WP money back.
Hell when I was levelling I used a WP once to get to a zone then clear the whole zone and I was insanely rich (rich compared to the currency availability in those first few days).

And another point now, after the dungeons being updated.
Runs like TA, AC, CM, CoF are still very easy (like ~20min easy runs) and net ~70-90silver + 3/4 of your lvl exp + karma + dungeon tokens. They just made this a ultra casual game (not a bad thing in my opinion).
If I should play 3h on a evening I can make multiple golds guaranteed and that's without the chance of having a rare drop,...

[Ritualist]

Gilles VI, on 24 November 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

Rich enough in my opinion. As I said countless times before now, play for 5 mins and you deserved your WP money back.
Hell when I was levelling I used a WP once to get to a zone then clear the whole zone and I was insanely rich (rich compared to the currency availability in those first few days).

And another point now, after the dungeons being updated.
Runs like TA, AC, CM, CoF are still very easy (like ~20min easy runs) and net ~70-90silver + 3/4 of your lvl exp + karma + dungeon tokens. They just made this a ultra casual game (not a bad thing in my opinion).
If I should play 3h on a evening I can make multiple golds guaranteed and that's without the chance of having a rare drop,...

If I remember correctly, in GW1, as I was buying elite armours left in right, A.Net came out with the information that the average player had around 20k gold in their storage.
I am not so sure that "average" means what we on Guru think it means.

[Reikou]

Introduction of Ascended Gear and Fractals basically killed the PvE side of GW2.

WvW is a joke, called this from the start.  Needs to be less casual and more cut throat.

High level s/tPvP, the main reason I continued to play GW2 w as killed by anet last patch with the "revamping" of the paid tournament system, which was basically a huge middle finger to most, if not all hardcore PvPers.

The GW2 PvP scene is basically dead.  Paid queues don't even pop in US Primetime now, which just goes to show how terrible the situation is.  Anet is going to have to move heaven and earth in the next few weeks if they intend to revitalize it, but they probably won't.

Edited by unraveled, 24 November 2012 - 10:43 PM.
Neither necessary or tolerated. Be polite or don't post.

[Gremlin]

Arquenya, on 24 November 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

Very true.

That thy WP costs is not really the point, it's that even transporting to a WP 10 yards away already costs 1s33 - which is waaay too much.
For most players 6-7 silver per usage (for going to a place and back) is still a significant amount.

In other games with payed transport the costs are lower compared to your income.
In GW2 they seriously hamper you in saving for whatever you want to buy. Hence most players try to avoid it as much as possible.
I really wonder if that was the intention behind it, to create an artifical time sink.

I save a little by only using the WP to get back after selling.

I can go to the mists and have access to a merchant and the forge if I want to, leaving the mists puts me back where I came from.

If I want other services then I walk through the gate to LA.
Then later travel back via WP

[Bloodtau]

Unless A-net pulls something amazing and genre breaking in the next month or so, they better start planning which staff to lay off because they won't be making enough money to pay them all.

[Corvindi]

Still playing.  I've noticed that GW2 has something in common with many annoying free to play grinders in that the game is just more fun at the lower levels.  So I just keep rerolling most of my characters.  My 80 ranger I keep around in case I want to go on a crafting mat foray in higher level zones.

I have close to 3 gold and a ton of mats after doing a bunch of crafting on my new cooking alt (deleted my lvl 400 cook, oops, never liked humans anyway) just from roaming around chopping down trees, smacking rocks, picking berries, and killing things.  It's soothing and peaceful, much like a game of solitaire, and hey, it will never cost me another dime, so whatever.

Edited by Corvindi, 25 November 2012 - 12:25 AM.