529 replies to this topic

[Minion]

Meh, I've met a few people pugging dungeons. If you pug AC and CoF or any other dungeon often enough, you will find good players. Sometimes these good players don't have anyone meaningful to play with. Add them to your friends list and call on them next time you want to do a dungeon. Now you have one less pug to look for and you just started made someone happy.

It's nice to give something back every now and then. Obviously, map exploration is harder to team with people because you all want something different, so there really is no way to pug it. It's rarely necessary anyway.

[Sheepski]

I had an interesting experience yesterday, which gave me some hope to the socialness of people in game.

A guildy and I were running jumping puzzles, when we went to Dark Reverie (the one after Morgan's Spiral) where ofc if you fall on that one tricky jump you die, and would have to run through the first JP to get back.

There were about 5/6 random people there too, and we had a lot of fun laughing at our failures over the course of around half an hour or something, everyone ressing each other, laughing at silly fails, congrats when someone made it etc. When someone had completed they stuck around to res for a while.

In the end I went and ran my mesmer there to portal my guildy and a few others past the tough spot and was welcomed.

I thought the whole thing was very good fun and a positive to the social side of the game. It's just a shame more of these things don't occur.

[Gilles VI]

I, on 05 January 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

it's funny how GW1 was significantly more sociable and alive than GW2, which is supposed to be an MMORPG.

Wut?
Only chat I ever saw in GW1 capitals were guild announcings and people wanting to sell/buy stuff..

Social my ass, I could do speedclears for an afternoon straight without saying anything besides MT/T1/T2 LFG.
Hell even PvP was reduced to "Rx+ LFG, y profession"..

[Briar]

Deermoose, on 04 January 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

While the game itself doesn't do the best job I've seen of assisting (or... forcing) social connections, to a large extent, the game itself is not to be blamed. People today are just wary of each other and even beyond that, we're gamers. A lot of gamers aren't great with social skills.

Put it this way: A few nights ago, the gf and I were coming home from her parents. It was past midnight, and we saw a car broken down on the side of the road with his emergency lights on. We passed him at first, but then I felt a pang of guilt and turned around to at least see if there was anything to be done. The entire way back to this guy, the gf was saying "If we get killed, it's your fault," which just struck a chord. Then, when I got out of the car, the guy was genuinely shocked that anyone at all had stopped to help. I get the whole "stranger danger" thing, but when did humanity as a whole become so awful towards each other? Obviously, stopping to res someone isn't nearly this situation, but the fact remains... People today just aren't what they used to be, socially or otherwise.

That's a symptom of the 7? billion people currently on earth. Don't believe me? go to any small town out in the middle of nowhere and you can chat up the locals you meet on the side of the road while out for your walk. Now go to big city and attempt the same thing.

Too many people means why bother i will never see them again anyway its exhausting to be social with everyone. Soon its the norm and you forget how to be social.

I think this extends to MMO's; everything is so goal oriented talking to people slows you down and soon you forget to talk to people at all.

[God Pain]

Gilles VI, on 05 January 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

Wut?
Only chat I ever saw in GW1 capitals were guild announcings and people wanting to sell/buy stuff..

Social my ass, I could do speedclears for an afternoon straight without saying anything besides MT/T1/T2 LFG.
Hell even PvP was reduced to "Rx+ LFG, y profession"..

Shing Jea Island.. ^^ where everyone was welcomed

[Sheepski]

God Pain, on 05 January 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

Shing Jea Island.. ^^ where everyone was welcomed

I think we should keep that kind of "social" far away from Gw2

[Rhododendron]

Gilles VI, on 05 January 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

Wut?
Only chat I ever saw in GW1 capitals were guild announcings and people wanting to sell/buy stuff..

Social my ass, I could do speedclears for an afternoon straight without saying anything besides MT/T1/T2 LFG.
Hell even PvP was reduced to "Rx+ LFG, y profession"..

Lion's Arch, Ascalon, Jade Quarry, random arenas but you know, nothing fancy, trolls, pvp freaks, help me, lololol my guild is full of chicks and the like

[Gilles VI]

Rhododendron, on 05 January 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Lion's Arch, Ascalon, Jade Quarry, random arenas but you know, nothing fancy, trolls, pvp freaks, help me, lololol my guild is full of chicks and the like

RA was just full of trollers, if you wanted to see Dhuum kill someone just go there for 30 mins and you'd see it.

[Daesu]

Gilles VI, on 05 January 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

Wut?
Only chat I ever saw in GW1 capitals were guild announcings and people wanting to sell/buy stuff..

That is because you didn't try hard enough in GW1.  I got to know many good players in GW1 through pugging.  We had fun helping one another out after that and I got to know even more friends through friends.  Unfortunately, they all left the game for WoW or other MMOs before GW2 was out.

At least in GW1, people party up for the daily Zaishen quests now and you still have a chance to know people through that.

Minion, on 05 January 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

It's nice to give something back every now and then. Obviously, map exploration is harder to team with people because you all want something different, so there really is no way to pug it. It's rarely necessary anyway.

It depends on what you like to do.  I do map exploration 99% of my time in the game.  Not the most profitable way to play, but it is something that I enjoy doing.  I followed 3 other characters around cursed shores yesterday and got invited into another guild.  Even cursed shores was quite deserted then.  

I am hoping that a LFG tool would help with finding people with the same goals and likes across other servers but I heard that ArenaNet is not even working on any of these at the moment.

Edited by Daesu, 05 January 2013 - 05:44 PM.

[Gilles VI]

Daesu, on 05 January 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

That is because you didn't try hard enough in GW1.  I got to know many good players in GW1 through pugging.  We had fun helping one another out after that and I got to know even more friends through friends.  Unfortunately, they all left the game for WoW or other MMOs before GW2 was out.

At least in GW1, people party up for the daily Zaishen quests now and you still have a chance to know people through that.

I played over 3000h in GW1, half of that in PvP, so yea I played my time with people.
And yet I say you GW1 wasn't a very social game, ofcourse guilds and friends make things better, but when knowing nobody?

Lol at zaishen quests, these were brought in the game to give people something to do, and still, in my experience people just grouped up, made sure they had 2 monks, a SoS rit and did what they were supposed to.
"No r7+ vanguard when it was in charr homelands? Oh tobad you'll die to easy, find a noob group"

[Daesu]

Gilles VI, on 05 January 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

I played over 3000h in GW1, half of that in PvP, so yea I played my time with people.
And yet I say you GW1 wasn't a very social game, ofcourse guilds and friends make things better, but when knowing nobody?

Lol at zaishen quests, these were brought in the game to give people something to do, and still, in my experience people just grouped up, made sure they had 2 monks, a SoS rit and did what they were supposed to.
"No r7+ vanguard when it was in charr homelands? Oh tobad you'll die to easy, find a noob group"

I have been grouping up for the daily zaishen quests for years across all my 20+ characters and I have not seen anyone discriminating based on title rank there, at least not in the past 2 years or so.  Besides, you don't need r7+ vanguard, you already got max vanguard attribute at r5!

With pugs, there are bad and good guys, it is a mix.  But if you can pug daily across the different zaishen quests, your chance of finding good people goes up.  It is easier to socialize with different people in pve than in pvp.  Pvp tends to be more intense and people are not as chatty if they need to type out messages.

Edited by Daesu, 05 January 2013 - 05:57 PM.

[Gilles VI]

Daesu, on 05 January 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

I have been grouping up for the daily zaishen quests for years across all my 20+ characters and I have not seen anyone discriminating based on title rank there.  Besides, you don't need r7+ vanguard, you already got max vanguard attribute at r5!

With pugs, there are bad and good guys, it is a mix.  But if you can pug daily across the different zaishen quests, your chance of finding good people goes up.  It easier to socialize with different people in pve than in pvp.

For years? xD
I hope you realise zaishen quests are a very recent addition to GW1, same with the title change, which was only a few months before GW2 release..

And there was no use to socialise in GW1 PvE tbh..
My heroes were better in 95% of any situation.

Remember this quest (http://wiki.guildwar...tion_(Hard_mode))?
Tried it 2 months with players, keep failing, even with  consets, perma sins, anything!
2 tries with my slightly modified hero team and boom, done.
If that isn't anti-social design I don't know what is.

[Daesu]

Gilles VI, on 05 January 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

For years? xD
I hope you realise zaishen quests are a very recent addition to GW1, same with the title change, which was only a few months before GW2 release..

And there was no use to socialise in GW1 PvE tbh..
My heroes were better in 95% of any situation.

Remember this quest (http://wiki.guildwar...tion_(Hard_mode))?
Tried it 2 months with players, keep failing, even with  consets, perma sins, anything!
2 tries with my slightly modified hero team and boom, done.
If that isn't anti-social design I don't know what is.

No, the Zaishen quests have been around for a while.  The title change was more recent but still I have not seen any title discrimination before that for the past 2 years.

The problem is most players don't setup their skill bars in a way that is synergistic with the other members of their team.  You have the luxury to do that with heroes.  But if you can setup an organized team with synergistic skill bars (e.g. speed clear teams), the human team would far overpower a heroes team with their uber pve skills and cons.

Edited by Daesu, 05 January 2013 - 06:09 PM.

[Gilles VI]

Daesu, on 05 January 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

No, the Zaishen quests have been around for a while.  The title change was more recent but still I have not seen any title discrimination before that for the past 2 years.

The problem is most players don't setup their skill bars in a way that is synergistic with the other members of their team.  You have the luxury to do that with heroes.  But if you can setup an organized team with synergistic skill bars (e.g. speed clear teams), the human team would far overpower a heroes team with their uber pve skills and cons.

I was (still am) in a very decent guild, when I asked for help we didn't went in like PUG's, also it was HM version, the people who got to WoC in HM that far aren't noobs, you needed to be a very good player to get past the shing yea quests in HM.
Heroes are just to good at healing, cleaning, supporting and interrupting.
I got most 1/2sec spells on my mesmer in RA when I was extremely focussing on 1 enemy, but heroes were thousand times more better at it.

For me the introduction of heroes meant the end of social play in GW1.
I never needed to ask for help anymore, you could just solo everything.
There is something wrong when I even succeeded in doing UW & FoW with my 7 heroes, the hardest areas in the game...

Edited by Gilles VI, 05 January 2013 - 06:17 PM.

[Daesu]

Gilles VI, on 05 January 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

I was (still am) in a very decent guild, when I asked for help we didn't went in like PUG's, also it was HM version, the people who got to WoC in HM that far aren't noobs, you needed to be a very good player to get past the shing yea quests in HM.
Heroes are just to good at healing, cleaning, supporting and interrupting.
I got most 1/2sec spells on my mesmer in RA when I was extremely focussing on 1 enemy, but heroes were thousand times more better at it.

For me the introduction of heroes meant the end of social play in GW1.
I never needed to ask for help anymore, you could just solo everything.
There is something wrong when I even succeeded in doing UW & FoW with my 7 heroes, the hardest areas in the game...

Just because you are in a guild group doesn't mean you can't use some good team synergy build.  You are comparing a heroes team with only 3 pve skills vs a human team with 24 pve skills + cons.  If you fail with the latter, it is usually just poor team synergy.

Heroes are needed for GW1 because there just wasn't enough players in a 7 years old game.  If there is no heroes, then there would be nobody else playing the game and more people would quit.  Heroes saved and extended the life of GW1 for the past 7+ years.

If you want to socialize you still have the option to pug for the daily zaishen quests.  You don't have that option in open world GW2 or even find a group to help you with a personal story, you also don't have heroes, you are basically stuck until you find help.

Edited by Daesu, 05 January 2013 - 07:21 PM.

[Gilles VI]

Daesu, on 05 January 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

Just because you are in a guild group doesn't mean you can't use some good team synergy build.

Heroes are needed for GW1 because there just wasn't enough players in a 7 years old game.  If there is no heroes, then there would be nobody else playing the game and more people would quit.  Heroes saved and extended the life of GW1 for the past 7+ years.

If you want to socialize you still have the option to pug in the zaishen quests.

You read it wrong, if even a very skilled & organised team of humans fails, but it succeeds with heroes (with pretty much same set-up), there is something wrong.

And heroes were added almost 1,5 year after launch, finding people wasn't a problem back then.

[Daesu]

Gilles VI, on 05 January 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

You read it wrong, if even a very skilled & organised team of humans fails, but it succeeds with heroes (with pretty much same set-up), there is something wrong.

And heroes were added almost 1,5 year after launch, finding people wasn't a problem back then.

Like I said, if you fail with a human team with 24 PvE skills + cons vs only 3 PvE skills heroes team then your human team doesn't work together as well as you think they do.  Some people can work well alone but not when in a team.  The fact that speed clear teams exist and only consists of humans already proved that an organized human team is more overpowered than a heroes team.  If heroes are indeed more powerful as you say, then everyone would be speed clearing UW with them instead of joining a SC team, wouldn't they?

Coming back to GW2.  If you want to socialize you still have the option to pug for the daily zaishen quests.  You don't have that option in open world GW2 or even find a group to help you with a personal story, you also don't have heroes, you are basically stuck until you find help.

Edited by Daesu, 05 January 2013 - 08:01 PM.

[Blixcoe]

Me on the other hand, I have a guild way back in GW1 so I'm doing fine with my guild. But still? This game bored we weeks, even months ago. The social aspect is as you say, a failure. And the end-game is not worth it. Play fotm a million times to upgrade your gear a TINY bit. It's not even worth it.

I miss the holy trinity, I miss proper gear progression, it's what made me feel like my character had grown within the game. GW2 does not make me feel any way I should when playing a MMORPG, sadly

The game does however look beautiful and has awesome music.

Edited by Blixcoe, 05 January 2013 - 07:53 PM.

[Craywulf]

Daesu, on 05 January 2013 - 04:29 AM, said:

Here's a clue, you can't ask for help when there is no one replying to you in map chat in open world because everyone else is either doing fractals, or in some other servers, or have their map chat turned off.  Nobody is demanding anybody anything or even has that ability to demand anything from anybody in the game anyway.  However, having a LFG tool + guesting can help players find other players, on other servers, who have the same/similar goal.

You strike me as a fanboy who justifies every single thing that ArenaNet does or does not do.  Praising ArenaNet for not giving us needed features like a LFG tool, is ridiculous.  An LFG tool would have helped players find other players with the same goals on other servers.  And what is your reason?  Your claim that an LFG tool would make us all meaner people is laughable.

I think you should change your attitude.  This is not a perfect game and ArenaNet is not always right.  If you are really as nice a person as you claim to be, you should learn to help others who have problems finding people to help them in the open world, rather than put on your judgmental hat and justify every single thing that ANet does or doesn't do.

So you think having map chat means everyone should hear (see what you're typing) you? If you're home alone do you scream in hopes someone hears you? Go to a different location, it's been suggested countless times that the major cities are where folks are willing to chat it up.

I can see how someone with a such narrow perspective see's me as a "fanboy". Let me set you straight...I'm not "praising" that LFG tool isn't in the game, I'm just not keen on it because unlike you I understand why such a tool isn't part of the initial game. Lastly there are quite a few things I don't like about GW2, such as the existence of numerical leveling. I've made countless post about it, but I don't bitch and moan and call the game broken or dumb because of it. I've also posted my thoughts about jumping mechanic as I believe it should cost endurance. I've also expressed my complaints about the character creation, as I think there should be more flexibility, especially with the Norn and humans hairstyles. I'm sure you think my complaints are trivial compared to yours, but in reality  you have a solution to your so-called LFG problem, but refuse to admit that it's sufficient. So it's not all rosey with me and ArenaNet. They can do a lot better, but the difference between you and me is I merely have hope that they do, while you simply feel entitled.

As for my attitude, I'm willing to bet I have more friends on these boards than you because I make my complaints constructive and do not lash out to those with opposing opinions.

[Daesu]

Craywulf, on 05 January 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

So you think having map chat means everyone should hear (see what you're typing) you? If you're home alone do you scream in hopes someone hears you? Go to a different location, it's been suggested countless times that the major cities are where folks are willing to chat it up.

I can see how someone with a such narrow perspective see's me as a "fanboy". Let me set you straight...I'm not "praising" that LFG tool isn't in the game, I'm just not keen on it because unlike you I understand why such a tool isn't part of the initial game. Lastly there are quite a few things I don't like about GW2, such as the existence of numerical leveling. I've made countless post about it, but I don't bitch and moan and call the game broken or dumb because of it. I've also posted my thoughts about jumping mechanic as I believe it should cost endurance. I've also expressed my complaints about the character creation, as I think there should be more flexibility, especially with the Norn and humans hairstyles. I'm sure you think my complaints are trivial compared to yours, but in reality  you have a solution to your so-called LFG problem, but refuse to admit that it's sufficient. So it's not all rosey with me and ArenaNet. They can do a lot better, but the difference between you and me is I merely have hope that they do, while you simply feel entitled.

As for my attitude, I'm willing to bet I have more friends on these boards than you because I make my complaints constructive and do not lash out to those with opposing opinions.

You failed to read.  Are you suggesting that if anyone can't find help in the open world, map back to LA, shout for help, hope that someone would help you, then map back to where you were, and hope that the event is still around?  Is that your great solution to the LFG problem?  If it is, then you are either out of touch with the game or out of touch with your fellow players or both.

I am ok with you having opposing opinions, I am just not ok with someone starting personal attacks whenever they disagree with someone else.  If you want your opinion to be treated seriously then you should also give it serious thought before suggesting.

The problem with map exploring is that everyone likes to do their own things and have different goals.  Having a way to find players who are interested in the same goals as you then and there, across servers, through guesting and an LFG tool would help.  The other problem with this game is that it splits players up across servers, so those players who are on less populated servers can have problems clearing orr temples or completing group events in the open world.  I am interested in reading practical solutions to these problems, not generic hand waving advise like, "just be more sociable, you guys are just not as sociable as I am.  Look at me I am so great..."

Edited by Daesu, 05 January 2013 - 09:07 PM.

[Gilles VI]

Blixcoe, on 05 January 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

I miss the holy trinity, I miss proper gear progression, it's what made me feel like my character had grown within the game. GW2 does not make me feel any way I should when playing a MMORPG, sadly

The game does however look beautiful and has awesome music.

You knew from the very first day they announced GW2 there wouldn't be a trinity or gear progression.. ^^

[Blixcoe]

Gilles VI, on 05 January 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

You knew from the very first day they announced GW2 there wouldn't be a trinity or gear progression.. ^^

Yeah I know, and I thought that I would be just fine with it that way. But I guess not silly me.

[NuclearDonut]

Blixcoe, on 05 January 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

Me on the other hand, I have a guild way back in GW1 so I'm doing fine with my guild. But still? This game bored we weeks, even months ago. The social aspect is as you say, a failure. And the end-game is not worth it. Play fotm a million times to upgrade your gear a TINY bit. It's not even worth it.

I miss the holy trinity, I miss proper gear progression, it's what made me feel like my character had grown within the game. GW2 does not make me feel any way I should when playing a MMORPG, sadly

The game does however look beautiful and has awesome music.

There are quite literally hundreds of games that you can go play if you miss the trinity. I've been playing since launch, put 500+ hours into it, and I haven't even killed Zhaitan yet. If you want grindy end-game so bad, go play one of the many MMOs that have that type of content. Just don't bring it into GW2.

[Blixcoe]

NuclearDonut, on 05 January 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

There are quite literally hundreds of games that you can go play if you miss the trinity. I've been playing since launch, put 500+ hours into it, and I haven't even killed Zhaitan yet. If you want grindy end-game so bad, go play one of the many MMOs that have that type of content. Just don't bring it into GW2.

you know what's funny? I've never looked at gear progression like grinding. It's a plus-side of doing dungeons, from my perspective. And dungeons + holy trinity goes well together. Gear to me was just a reward along the way.
I can't enjoy dungeons without the holy trinity, sorry

Edited by Blixcoe, 05 January 2013 - 09:13 PM.

[NuclearDonut]

Blixcoe, on 05 January 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

you know what's funny? I've never looked at gear progression like grinding. It's a plus-side of doing dungeons, from my perspective. And dungeons + holy trinity goes well together. Gear to me was just a reward along the way.
I can't enjoy dungeons without the holy trinity, sorry

To each their own, I just pointing out that pretty much every MMO has what you're looking for and what I'm NOT looking for, so don't give ANet any ideas about putting those things in GW2.

[Feathermoore]

The personal attacks need to stop. Discuss the topic at hand by bringing up a point, backing it up with evidence, and refuting other points. Do not insult, belittle, berate, demean, vilify, taunt, goad, or any other obviously unwelcome act.

Stop.

[dynia666]

If you QQ about this don't play dark souls, there is NO any chat there even some1 is in your party

[rentauri]

Blixcoe, on 05 January 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

you know what's funny? I've never looked at gear progression like grinding. It's a plus-side of doing dungeons, from my perspective. And dungeons + holy trinity goes well together. Gear to me was just a reward along the way.
I can't enjoy dungeons without the holy trinity, sorry

Well there is a thread in the Guardian forum about tanking called the Aggro Magnet and I believe that some professions (elementalist) have played successful healers as well. Using the holy trinity can be done in this game (well not everywhere as I doubt tanking high level fractals will work) to a certain extent its just not a requirement in this game as it is in others (thankfully).

[mazut]

All guilds use Voice chat this days, which is bothering me as well.

[Trei]

Deermoose, on 04 January 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

While the game itself doesn't do the best job I've seen of assisting (or... forcing) social connections, to a large extent, the game itself is not to be blamed. People today are just wary of each other and ....

... Obviously, stopping to res someone isn't nearly this situation, but the fact remains... People today just aren't what they used to be, socially or otherwise.

Part of this phenomenon can be attributed more than a decade of player conditioning from previous MMOs on how to behave in the open game world when in the presence of other random players. They are basically "all my competitors! out to grab my farming spot, to killsteal my rare spawn, PK me (for pvp worlds), literally reduce my yield on anything they happen to end up 'sharing' with me".

"Stay. Away. From. Me."

The concept of Sharing did not truly exist in these games because of such mechanics that promote petty competitiveness among players.
Thus, when you try to help some random guy that seem to be in trouble, they often turn around and berate you for it, that if they needed help they would have asked.

Some content were even deliberately designed in a way that makes such "assistance" counterproductive; vanilla WoW hunter players with Rhok'delar would remember how we truly "appreciated" any help we get from random passersby when we were trying to kill the four demons solo. (don't get me wrong, I loved that questline, but it could have done with a lot less grief)

GW2 on the other hand, was built from the ground up to promote sharing, promote playing with random players, welcome helping others and receiving help from others.
Everybody has his own reward tables.
One would not only not feel penalized for helping someone, but likely to get rewarded in the process.

Already in the first days of beta, I felt the change in the atmosphere.
Players are slowly being reconditioned to accept other players' existences positively.

I am not naive enough to expect significant effects within even the first year, let alone five months.

Edited by Trei, 06 January 2013 - 04:07 AM.