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Social Failure?


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#481 Bloggi

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:05 PM

View Postchristiansoldier, on 22 January 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

I would rather just play the game and make some progress.  I wonder if the people that like to chat either have completed most of what they want to do in the game or just don't enjoy the game play and are simply looking for social interaction.

Perhaps this goes for the folk who stand in prominent spots in LA waving their legendaries or dancing around with it. They've reached the supposed end point and are looking for something more to do in-game. Personally I think the social interaction is every bit a part of this game as other things like aesthetics. However I do agree with you on the point that some of us are juggling many things at once. When we play, we try to get some progress in game and to enjoy what it offers, and it offers a fair bit, so we can only put so much time into social interaction.

#482 Arquenya

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 12:22 AM

View Postchristiansoldier, on 22 January 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

I wonder if the people that like to chat either have completed most of what they want to do in the game or just don't enjoy the game play and are simply looking for social interaction.
Good question.

Why play a MMO if you basically want to do things on your own? I think what many people want from a MMO game is interaction, be it teamwork or conversations, organizing things, do things that have added value. Even if they're not RL friends, they're still people that you get to know, more or less, especially guildies that you do dozens of runs and other acitivities with. And i think it's natural if you want to know a little more about them and see if you share more than just doing in-game activities.

If I look at my guild's chat it's often about movies they have seen, concerts they have been or music they listen to. Or the game in general, what they're cooking, such things. It's nice, or at least I like it. There's often good humour involved, personally I think it has great added value. Without other people I don't think I'd play these games at all.

But no, I don't just play just for the social aspects. I also want to have goals to accomplish. Which are not neccessarily all the themepark themes the designers have put into the game - but if I don't see any appealing challenges anymore I'll simply quit playing. Which btw may be quite soon.

Edited by Arquenya, 23 January 2013 - 12:28 AM.


#483 Heart Collector

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:46 PM

View PostArquenya, on 23 January 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

Why play a MMO if you basically want to do things on your own?

Why go out for a beer if you want to sit at the bar on your own?

Some people just want to play alongside others without feeling forced to interact with them.

#484 christiansoldier

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 03:58 PM

View PostArquenya, on 23 January 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

Why play a MMO if you basically want to do things on your own?

I think there is a huge difference between playing a MMO with others and social chatter which is what the OP was posting about.  As I mentioned in my original post, I have no problems with talking about the game, answering questions, discussing strategy etc... Being able to play with others and cooperate in the open world or to team up to play dungeons is what draws me to games like Guildwars 2.  I just have no interest in chatting about how their day was, or talking about their break ups with the bf/gf or how they hate their parents. I get plenty of that social interaction in real life.  You don't go into a movie theater or restaurant and yell out "I had a really bad day and I hate my job", why would you go into LA and post it in a public chat channel for hundreds of people to see.  Use a guild channel or whisper the people you want to talk to. Don't get me wrong.  I am not a anti-social person.  I think some players forget that the bulk of the game players do not hang around the game all day.  We have limited time to play and would prefer to explore the map, do some hearts or dungeons rather than social chatter.

#485 Astral Projections

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 11:31 AM

It's also hard to be out in the world playing and map chatting at the same time. You have to stop what you are doing to type, otherwise you keep moving and aggro mobs. And if you are actually fighting, then you can't really chat at all. Generally if I am going to join in on some random conversation then it's going to be somewhere like LA. If I am going to talk in chat, it's with my guild mates and party members. I expect this is true for most people. They are talking, but to friends. Not over map chat.

Edited by Astral Projections, 24 January 2013 - 11:32 AM.


#486 raspberry jam

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:26 PM

View PostHeart Collector, on 23 January 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

Why go out for a beer if you want to sit at the bar on your own?

Some people just want to play alongside others without feeling forced to interact with them.
What is that supposed to mean? There are actually people who sit at the bar on their own because they want to?

I always figured that those people were lonely sad people that did it because they wanted to be in a bar but didn't have anyone there to talk to.

#487 astromarmot

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:05 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 24 January 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

What is that supposed to mean? There are actually people who sit at the bar on their own because they want to?

I always figured that those people were lonely sad people that did it because they wanted to be in a bar but didn't have anyone there to talk to.

A bartender can be a temporary companion in a pinch...or maybe the game you want to watch isn't available through your home telly, or possibly, you just want to get out of the hotel room(I used to travel 7-8 months out of the year) or away from your house for a bit, but don't want the commitment of arranging a meetup....

#488 shiggidyshwa

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:36 PM

If you design a game that can be soloed until level 80, it stands to reason that the social factor will be reduced. It's one of the ways Guild Wars differs from Guild Wars 2. In the original, many of the instanced quests required you to be part of a cohesive team. NPCs just didn't cut it.

This isn't an explicit barrier to socializing in this game, but it is an implicit one. There are many different factors to influence how you play the game. For example, if you come from a background of heavy socializing in other games, you may seek the same kind of experience in this one. If you're completely new to MMOSs and experience the solo-friendly gameplay here, it may take you longer to join a group, if at all.

I don't think it's possible to deny the effect that the game's implicit barriers (depending on perspective) have on its players in-game behaviour.

#489 raspberry jam

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:58 PM

View Postastromarmot, on 24 January 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

A bartender can be a temporary companion in a pinch...or maybe the game you want to watch isn't available through your home telly, or possibly, you just want to get out of the hotel room(I used to travel 7-8 months out of the year) or away from your house for a bit, but don't want the commitment of arranging a meetup....
The wanting to get out of the hotel room thing I can understand, and hotel bars are a bit special anyway in more ways than one...

Anyway I didn't mean to offend, i just meant that well I guess, usually when I see someone sitting alone at the bar I imagine that they would always prefer to have someone to chat with. Or watch that game with...

#490 astromarmot

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 04:06 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 24 January 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

The wanting to get out of the hotel room thing I can understand, and hotel bars are a bit special anyway in more ways than one...

Anyway I didn't mean to offend, i just meant that well I guess, usually when I see someone sitting alone at the bar I imagine that they would always prefer to have someone to chat with. Or watch that game with...

Sometimes...sometimes the establishment with the bar just has a really awesome cheeseburger(or whatever)...and personally, I've always found it to be a bit less awkward to sit at the bar than dining alone at a table or booth...now, a person sitting alone at the bar at a Hooters or similar spot does rank fairly high up there in the sad/lonely/creepy list in my opinion...

Oh, and no offense taken here, I'm pretty much unoffendable...

Edited by astromarmot, 24 January 2013 - 04:13 PM.


#491 Ferrum Blacktide

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:11 PM

I've only been in two guilds and both of them are active and friendly. Generally people tend to like me though. Every time I entered Lion's Arch on Gate of Madness I was greeted by people I didn't know and questioned when I was gone for 2 weeks. Maybe it's that I'm a commander and people actually appreciate the fact that I'm constantly in WvW, but nonetheless I never feel lonely. Now that I'm on Kaineng with Team Legacy I can honestly say that I've never had more fun consistently every night in GW2. I'm sorry that the OP hasn't found a good guild but he should keep trying. A lot of times the smaller guilds are the much more active and friendly ones.

#492 Gilles VI

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:37 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 24 January 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

The wanting to get out of the hotel room thing I can understand, and hotel bars are a bit special anyway in more ways than one...

Anyway I didn't mean to offend, i just meant that well I guess, usually when I see someone sitting alone at the bar I imagine that they would always prefer to have someone to chat with. Or watch that game with...

Haha, you're partially right!

As a student which doesn't go to class often I find myself often alone at a bar, reading a paper or a book or w/e, and it would be fun, it's nice to do things alone, but still be in the company of others, although I can't deny it's fun when you find some company.

#493 I'm Squirrel

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:42 PM

So I played PoE for about 8 hours last night. And even though the world is separated into instances (similar to GW1) they have a global chat feature, and you're always talking to people 24/7 throughout the whole game. And they are always having different conversations about the game, questions, etc. You just ask a question or say something funny and instantly someone reacts.

I think this could help GW2 a LOT. You would think there would be spam 24/7, but it was hardly like that in PoE. Another thing that could help GW2 immensly is if the capital cities player caps went up by a huge amount, say 200~, AND all capital cities in all servers were connected to each other. This would significantly increase the amount of players within abandoned cities like DR, The Grove, Rata Sum; pretty much everywhere except LA.


View Postshiggidyshwa, on 24 January 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

If you design a game that can be soloed until level 80, it stands to reason that the social factor will be reduced. It's one of the ways Guild Wars differs from Guild Wars 2. In the original, many of the instanced quests required you to be part of a cohesive team. NPCs just didn't cut it.

This isn't an explicit barrier to socializing in this game, but it is an implicit one. There are many different factors to influence how you play the game. For example, if you come from a background of heavy socializing in other games, you may seek the same kind of experience in this one. If you're completely new to MMOSs and experience the solo-friendly gameplay here, it may take you longer to join a group, if at all.

I don't think it's possible to deny the effect that the game's implicit barriers (depending on perspective) have on its players in-game behaviour.

I have to disagree to a certain point, after playing PoE. The main problem in GW2 is that we don't feel like a community, even within guilds. ArenaNet has to find a way to expand community features, whereas that be global chat, eliminating individual zones and merging other servers(multiple servers could be connected into one, buddy servers, I would call them; 3 servers paired up) and increasing player cap, or even bringing back the old alliance feature, 10 guilds merged into 1.

Back in my days of F2P MMORPG's and WoW, most people spent their time as a solo player. What kept us connected though, was a global / server chat. Along with having non-instanced gameplay.

My point is, it's not the PvE part of the game that suffers(partying, questing, etc), it's the overall community that suffers socially. We need to be connected as a community at all times. When you log-in, you're basically, on your own forever. Guilds are too small (active players 10-40 avg) to feel connected as a whole.

PoE accomplishes social success, by simply having a global chat feature.

#494 Asha2012

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:50 PM

Okay so the original post was made like 4 months ago so things may have changed.

Fast forward to today.  

I am in my 2nd guild and LOVING IT.  It is a guild formed from my friends list.

A few months ago, mostly through the use of "say" chat, I found a group of about 5 pve players who seemed to log in every night at the same time I did.

After a while it only made sense for all of us to form a guild.  We are only about 10 members strong but I can say that no less than five of us are on EVERY night for the past two months.

As for social chat, the 10 of us probably produce enough guild chat for 20 players.  That gold text fills my screen all night long.  We are all having so much fun.

Just this week we added three new members with open arms.  The trick I've discovered to meeting people in game is no trick at all:

I just say hi.

Seriously.  That is virtually how I have "recruited" everyone I play with.  I just say "Hi, thanks for the help.  I like your armor..." and conversation ensues from there.  It might help that I am usually willing to do just about anything with anybody if it means playing.  I will put aside my own agenda for days to follow another's PS or do dungeon runs or whatever.  I love talking with other mesmers too.

As for pve feeling like single player?  Actually, for me, it has become a challenge to find any alone time to craft and explore on my own.  Not really a complaint.  Given the option of too much socializing to not enough, I'll take the former.  I think in the game, as in life, you have to overcome a lot of selfishness.  It is SO easy to get lost in focusing on your own character, the game mechanics are somewhat selfish by design.  the only other MMO I have ever played was GW1 and, as a mesmer in that game, I learned to take on a support role.  I love helping others, I love working as a team.  I love that GW2 has multi-player skill combos (which makes it funny I have not done any pvp yet).

Unlike GW1 where if you were in the middle of a vanquish or mission or speed clear, you could not just stop, go help someone and then pick up where you left off, DE's can be walked away from (you still get some credit so long as you participated - very nice) and RH's can be finished at any time.

The only thing that has to be completed without interruption is a dungeon but even those are not so involved that you spend hours and hours trying to reach the end (at least dungeons like CM and AC).

So, if someone needs help or is just lonely, I'm usually fine with dropping what I'm doing and accomodating them (don't read that as me "rage quitting" my team in a dungeon though :D ).

The bottom line is:  This game has sold millions of copies which means there are millions of different experiences with the game.  I do not doubt that people feel alone and left in the cold.  I have been alone on maps plenty of times.  I am just fortunate to have found a friendly, active group, small as it is.

I <3 GW2 and am looking forward to Monday's update. :D

#495 Asha2012

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:59 PM

View PostDerekUrban, on 01 October 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

Hell, I've found new guild members from something as simple as being helped with a vista and *gasp* talking to the person.

Yes! Yes! Me too!  I think we are all so open and willing to be friendly in this game all you have to do is say hi.  And for the love of Lyssa, make sure you use "say" chat too.  Those little pop up bubbles do wonders for getting another players attention.

Map chat feels more like spam.  Seeing that little chat bubble over a players head helps bring the game to life.  "Oh YOU said that! Hi!".

#496 shiggidyshwa

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:42 PM

View PostI, on 24 January 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

I have to disagree to a certain point, after playing PoE. The main problem in GW2 is that we don't feel like a community, even within guilds. ArenaNet has to find a way to expand community features, whereas that be global chat, eliminating individual zones and merging other servers(multiple servers could be connected into one, buddy servers, I would call them; 3 servers paired up) and increasing player cap, or even bringing back the old alliance feature, 10 guilds merged into 1.

Back in my days of F2P MMORPG's and WoW, most people spent their time as a solo player. What kept us connected though, was a global / server chat. Along with having non-instanced gameplay.

My point is, it's not the PvE part of the game that suffers(partying, questing, etc), it's the overall community that suffers socially. We need to be connected as a community at all times. When you log-in, you're basically, on your own forever. Guilds are too small (active players 10-40 avg) to feel connected as a whole.

PoE accomplishes social success, by simply having a global chat feature.

Well you're basically proving my point. A solo experience lends itself more readily to anti-social behaviour.

I have no experience with PoE. In general terms, map/global chat is an extension or a player tool. Thus it will reflect the general mood and activity of the player base. Your solution to the problem at hand is to increase the number of people who experience the content, even if the content remains unchanged.

This is, I believe, a fundamentally flawed way of viewing the problem. By maintaining the majority of early game as solo-able, it doesn't matter how many people you inject into the servers. Players will still run around completing the quests for themselves, and if other players show up to help, it's most likely because they are questing for themselves as well. Because the quests and dynamic events are so fragmented and completely optional, there really is no reason to group up with someone and throw your lot in with them. It's much more convenient to run around to the quests you want and hope that there are players there with the same idea.

This changes when you join a guild that emphasizes group play. You can get unending replayability from that.

There is a reason that the end-level areas like explorable dungeons and Orr are zerged with so many players. It's because that's the end. Rare drops, including weapons and crafting materials, can only be found there. What's the point in going back to a starter zone where you will cut through enemies like butter, get drops that are no longer worth your time, and take part in events that only have aesthetic differences with the end-game ones?

And yet, map chat activity in Orr is about the same as any other zone. Calls to defeat this or that boss or help with this or that event are no different from even a starter zone. It even gets worse when the group fails the event. Then the blame game begins.

In GW1, you partied up for every instanced area. The game forced you to group, even if you did no talking. More often than not though, this led to unique experiences with strangers that could sometimes lead to more shared experiences. This also meant sometimes waiting for ages for a group in less-frequented instances. It was a trade-off.

To be perfectly honest, most of the open-world content is solo-friendly and lacks meaning. As a player, I have no connection to the open-world lore. In WvW though, I fight for my server. I'm part of a team and I want that team to do well, and so I throw myself in with the zerg sometimes. In any case, the most dynamic and memorable moments I've had in this game have all been in WvW or running dungeons with guildmates. I wish it weren't the case. I wish I could go into an open-world zone and find epic events with real consequences that forced me to group up with dozens of players.

I'd like to keep the solo-friendly aspect of the open-world, but it desperately needs some more epic zone-wide group events that have real consequences for success or failure. This, in my mind, would force players to enter the zone and complete the event chain, being rewarded handsomely for success.

Edited by shiggidyshwa, 24 January 2013 - 07:45 PM.


#497 Astalnar

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:52 PM

In my oppinion gamers never were some great social beasts. I tend to believe we are solitary by nature. What GW2 showed was the uggly rotten skeleton most of other mmos tried to mask. We never really grouped with anyone out of pure joy. We grouped and socialized with others because it was a matter of conveniance. It was how things got done faster, more efficient and without wasting our time.
With GW2 and it's approach to the grouping, the mask fell off. It is not GW2 community, it is same everywhere, it is only that everywhere else you need assistance of others at some point, so the socialization seems neccessary and essential, while in GW2 appears an extra mile nobody is willing to take since it is not required for most anything. Hell, PvP is just a zerg and dungeons can be cleared with randoms.

#498 shiggidyshwa

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:18 PM

View PostAstalnar, on 24 January 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

In my oppinion gamers never were some great social beasts. I tend to believe we are solitary by nature. What GW2 showed was the uggly rotten skeleton most of other mmos tried to mask. We never really grouped with anyone out of pure joy. We grouped and socialized with others because it was a matter of conveniance. It was how things got done faster, more efficient and without wasting our time.
With GW2 and it's approach to the grouping, the mask fell off. It is not GW2 community, it is same everywhere, it is only that everywhere else you need assistance of others at some point, so the socialization seems neccessary and essential, while in GW2 appears an extra mile nobody is willing to take since it is not required for most anything. Hell, PvP is just a zerg and dungeons can be cleared with randoms.

That's not just wrong on any scientific level, it's also extremely pessimistic. I suggest you stop projecting your own feelings on these forums.

Human beings are by nature social creatures, and arguing that a group of us that are tied together not by economic factors, but by what forms of leisure we pursue, are solitary by nature is just flat-out wrong.

The game necessarily breeds the behaviour of its players. Of course we take into account many other factors (prior gaming experience predominantly), but this would be the most influential.

#499 I'm Squirrel

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:57 PM

View Postshiggidyshwa, on 24 January 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

Well you're basically proving my point. A solo experience lends itself more readily to anti-social behaviour.

That is the complete opposite of what I believe, actually. A solo experience within an MMORPG has the potential to still be an extremely social game. If GW2 was a single player game, it would still have the absolute potential to become a "social hub," and feel like a community.

The social problem in GW2 is not entirely that most people would rather solo the whole PvE aspect of it, rather than group up and do events together. The problem is that we lack proper social communication features such as global chat/server chat.

Take this forum for example, this isn't a game. But, hundreds of people go on here to chat and discuss different topics. If we were able to chat and discuss things with a community of at least a hundred WHILE playing the game, it wouldn't be such a failure. Instead we're grouped up with 5-20 people in one zone, and since we're constantly wping-->wping-->wping, we barely have the time to have conversations or ask for help.  

Here's a great example of a "socially successful" community; note the global chat:



PoE is basically a solo instanced game like GW1 or Diablo, where you can party up with 2-6 players. Many players prefer not to party, so they can farm dungeons themselves. Yet, the game remains much more social than GW2 because of the global chat (in red). You see many players constantly chatting it up and it feels JUST like a community should feel. You never feel alone because of the chat.

Note: This video is recorded during CLOSED beta, meaning there are only probably 50-100 active players at this one time. (not many people bought or received a key) Yet, it still remains socially successful. It is F2P, if anybody is interested. From the devs of D1 and D2.

Edited by I'm Squirrel, 25 January 2013 - 05:44 PM.


#500 Astalnar

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:15 PM

View Postshiggidyshwa, on 24 January 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

That's not just wrong on any scientific level, it's also extremely pessimistic. I suggest you stop projecting your own feelings on these forums.

Human beings are by nature social creatures, and arguing that a group of us that are tied together not by economic factors, but by what forms of leisure we pursue, are solitary by nature is just flat-out wrong.

The game necessarily breeds the behaviour of its players. Of course we take into account many other factors (prior gaming experience predominantly), but this would be the most influential.

At first, I was thinking, not worth it. Don't try to bother wit this one. But then, I was just thinking: DO IT.

At what point of my post did you get the feeling that any of what I said was based on some scientific fact and not on my oppinion, as my first sentance in the post so clearly demonstrates.
I suggest you start reading the whole post and don't just skim through whatever your mind comes to catch in that brief few seconds. I suggest you stop caring for what, how and in what tone I post in these forums, it is none of your business.

Human beings are not social creatures by nature. They are social out of need. You don't believe my oppinion. Sure, like I give a flying F what you believe and what you don't. How about Plato? You believe him? Yes? No? Like I care?
In his book The State, Book 1, he outlines the reason why people work one with other. He states that any man could do all the jobs himself and do well on his own. It is the need to do more with himself that makes him seek oher people and why then jobs get distributed and people get specialized in each branch. it is not out of pleasure of other people's company, but because human is a selfish prick who wants more free time and the easiest way to do so is to specialise in one thing and depend on others with the rest.
Same motive comes into play later in Plato's cave. What does make one who escaped the cave come back? He sure did not miss the others. And he sure doesn't miss them once he is back among them in darkness where they ridicule him for his bad night-vision and his "fairy-tales" of light. It was his own solitary nature that made him seek the sun and it was his solitary nature that drove him back, to prove to his peers he is better than them.

Frankly, I don't care how very sad my post makes you. You see in it a glass half empty, I see a glass with water in it.

#501 shiggidyshwa

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:35 AM

View PostAstalnar, on 24 January 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

Human beings are not social creatures by nature. They are social out of need.

No difference. I'd also broaden your horizons outside of Plato's philosophy into more materialist, scientific conceptions of human nature.

#502 shiggidyshwa

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:43 AM

View PostI, on 24 January 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

That is the complete opposite of what I believe, actually. A solo experience within an MMORPG has the potential to still be an extremely social game. If GW2 was a single player game, it would still have the absolute potential to become a "social hub," and feel like a community.

The social problem in GW2 is not entirely that most people would rather solo the whole PvE aspect of it, rather than group up and do events together. The problem is that we lack proper social communication features such as global chat/server chat.

Take this forum for example, this isn't a game. But, hundreds of people go on here to chat and discuss different topics. If we were able to chat and discuss things with a community of at least a hundred WHILE playing the game, it wouldn't be such a failure. Instead we're grouped up with 5-20 people in one zone, and since we're constantly wping-->wping-->wping, we barely have the time to have conversations or ask for help.  

Here's a great example of a "socially successful" community; note the global chat:

PoE is basically a solo instanced game like GW1 or Diablo, where you can party up with 2-6 players. Many players prefer not to party, so they can farm dungeons themselves. Yet, the game remains much more social than GW2 because of the global chat (in red). You see many players constantly chatting it up and it feels JUST like a community should feel. You never feel alone because of the chat.

Note: This video is recorded during CLOSED beta, meaning there are only probably 50-100 active players at this one time. (not many people bought or received a key) Yet, it still remains socially successful.

That's about as active as Lion's Arch on Sorrow's Furnace server.

A real experiment would be to count the number of game chatters and compare it against the total game population for PoE. See if it really stacks up to claims that game-wide chat increases the social factor.

People use this forum because they sought it out, not because it was given to them. This forum's population is a fraction of the total GW2 player base.

#503 godis

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:53 AM

I have stopped using the chat because the new chat windows sucks. it feels to complex compared to the one in GW1.

#504 Heart Collector

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 08:39 AM

View Postraspberry jam, on 24 January 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

What is that supposed to mean? There are actually people who sit at the bar on their own because they want to?

I always figured that those people were lonely sad people that did it because they wanted to be in a bar but didn't have anyone there to talk to.

Back before the crisis when I still had money to spare, I'd enjoy going to a certain cafe after work. I'd grab a newspaper, magazine or book, and relax in my favorite spot with my coffee for an hour or so. I would chit-chat with the waitresses, the barristas and the manager but most of the time I'd simply chill with my beverage, watch a game or read, and watch people go by. It was a nice way to unwind.

I never really liked going to bars alone though. I've done so on holiday on some occasions (and still met some fun loving people and some, ehm, interesting lasses) but I think I'm past that phase.

#505 raspberry jam

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:15 AM

View PostHeart Collector, on 25 January 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

Back before the crisis when I still had money to spare, I'd enjoy going to a certain cafe after work. I'd grab a newspaper, magazine or book, and relax in my favorite spot with my coffee for an hour or so. I would chit-chat with the waitresses, the barristas and the manager but most of the time I'd simply chill with my beverage, watch a game or read, and watch people go by. It was a nice way to unwind.

I never really liked going to bars alone though. I've done so on holiday on some occasions (and still met some fun loving people and some, ehm, interesting lasses) but I think I'm past that phase.
A cafe isn't a bar though, I love sitting around at cafes just looking at people.

#506 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:52 AM

View PostI, on 24 January 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

That is the complete opposite of what I believe, actually. A solo experience within an MMORPG has the potential to still be an extremely social game. If GW2 was a single player game, it would still have the absolute potential to become a "social hub," and feel like a community.

The social problem in GW2 is not entirely that most people would rather solo the whole PvE aspect of it, rather than group up and do events together. The problem is that we lack proper social communication features such as global chat/server chat.

Take this forum for example, this isn't a game. But, hundreds of people go on here to chat and discuss different topics. If we were able to chat and discuss things with a community of at least a hundred WHILE playing the game, it wouldn't be such a failure. Instead we're grouped up with 5-20 people in one zone, and since we're constantly wping-->wping-->wping, we barely have the time to have conversations or ask for help.  

Here's a great example of a "socially successful" community; note the global chat:



PoE is basically a solo instanced game like GW1 or Diablo, where you can party up with 2-6 players. Many players prefer not to party, so they can farm dungeons themselves. Yet, the game remains much more social than GW2 because of the global chat (in red). You see many players constantly chatting it up and it feels JUST like a community should feel. You never feel alone because of the chat.

Note: This video is recorded during CLOSED beta, meaning there are only probably 50-100 active players at this one time. (not many people bought or received a key) Yet, it still remains socially successful.
Totally agree. An mmo so full of personality disorder /sociopath players is not for me anymore, for sure. I'm tired to use ignore on wierdos.

Many thanks, i forgot the official beta was out!   3 more hours and i'm online, finally a real great game and loads of fun, with the company of the entire community. :cool: Pso2 is the same, everyone talking about something, from ingame stuff to general chitchat, just sitting there in the lobby. There are chairs, you can sit on them, or just on the floor.
And a community happily willing to help/group you everywhere.
Add no exploits nor junkbugs online, now :cool:
Pso2+PoE= awesomeness, no more time to waste on this junk. You others, enjoy gw2 haha ^_^

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 27 January 2013 - 08:12 AM.


#507 I'm Squirrel

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:58 PM

View Postshiggidyshwa, on 25 January 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

That's about as active as Lion's Arch on Sorrow's Furnace server.

A real experiment would be to count the number of game chatters and compare it against the total game population for PoE. See if it really stacks up to claims that game-wide chat increases the social factor.

People use this forum because they sought it out, not because it was given to them. This forum's population is a fraction of the total GW2 player base.

Yes, so? What exactly is your point? The whole server is connected. It's Lion's Arch EVERYWHERE you play. Lion's Arch is literally the only social part of GW2. You don't even do anything in there, you're pretty much standing there chatting. Whilst EVERYWHERE else you feel alone(as in, you don't feel part of the GW2 community).

Quote

A real experiment would be to count the number of game chatters and compare it against the total game population for PoE. See if it really stacks up to claims that game-wide chat increases the social factor.

.... Are you an imbecile? Obviously HUNDREDS of people in PoE aren't going to be chatting all at once, they have some respect for other players have to say.

Try using that experiment in GW2 for every zone, you would get 1/10th of the people playing the game using ingame chat.

Quote

People use this forum because they sought it out, not because it was given to them. This forum's population is a fraction of the total GW2 player base.

Again, what exactly is your point? This forum was a mere example I was using. It would be no different if I used the official forums as an example instead of this one-- or any popular forums 4chan, bodybuilding misc, reddit.

And no, to anyone who thinks so, i'm not bashing GW2. I have no doubt that this game will be very well evolved by the next official expansion, but as of right now, the game feels extremely underdeveloped moreso than it was in the BWE's.

Edited by I'm Squirrel, 25 January 2013 - 06:01 PM.


#508 shiggidyshwa

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:11 PM

View PostI, on 25 January 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

Yes, so? What exactly is your point? The whole server is connected. It's Lion's Arch EVERYWHERE you play. Lion's Arch is literally the only social part of GW2. You don't even do anything in there, you're pretty much standing there chatting. Whilst EVERYWHERE else you feel alone(as in, you don't feel part of the GW2 community).

I suppose if that's your definition of a social game, then Lion's Arch 2 is the on the frontier of MMOs. However, map chat does not a social MMO make. I could have had the same experience playing Inklink on shockwave.com back in the day. In fact I probably had more fun doing that because the chat was half the game itself.

Youtube the game you'll see what I mean.


View PostI, on 25 January 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

.... Are you an imbecile? Obviously HUNDREDS of people in PoE aren't going to be chatting all at once, they have some respect for other players have to say.

Try using that experiment in GW2 for every zone, you would get 1/10th of the people playing the game using ingame chat.

Ok let's forget your assumption then that PoE players just somehow have more respect for their fellow gamer than GW2. Another plausible reason for no chat flooding: a minority of those players aren't chatting. They're playing their solo game. Just like this one.


View PostI, on 25 January 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

Again, what exactly is your point? This forum was a mere example I was using. It would be no different if I used the official forums as an example instead of this one-- or any popular forums 4chan, bodybuilding misc, reddit.

And no, to anyone who thinks so, i'm not bashing GW2. I have no doubt that this game will be very well evolved by the next official expansion, but as of right now, the game feels extremely underdeveloped moreso than it was in the BWE's.

My point is this: These forums were designed with socializing in mind. They are a place for vocal players to congregate and discuss the game they love/hate. In other words, this site was built for a very specific social layer of GW2 players.

Equating this with globe-wide chat doesn't make sense. By enlarging the scope of chat, you don't fundamentally pivot the game towards socializing. You do this by enhancing the social aspect of the game itself. Give players more of a reason to group up and experience the game. Give them a reason to care about the content and the world their avatars inhabit. Then see how socializing explodes and flourishes.

#509 astromarmot

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:59 PM

Actually global chat would help some in that, when the game still had buttloads of peeps on starting zones, it was very easy to chat folks up on mapchat, and often when it came time to move on to other maps one would bid farewell and kinda reinvent the wheel on the next map...some of us are mirthful puc'ers but have little interest in guilds or adding to our friends list....

#510 Winterclaw

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:27 PM

There's a community in GW2?  And here I thought I was just playing with a bunch of AIs that Anet put in the game to fill things up.

I'm not sure what I think about it to be honest.  I made most of my ingame friends in GW doing long quests and missions that took coordination and we talked during it.  The dynamic and persistant nature of this game kills the oppertunity for that.  As for guilds, they are good and bad.  Good because a good one can foster community, bad because a bad one can hurt it and overall they tend to cause people to self segregate and only work within their own little networks.

Another thing is, there arn't any NPC corps like EVE has.  In that game, at least everyone has some form of community at all times.  Unless you choose the same minni corp one of my chars started in.
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