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[Build] The Invincible Berserker - it's back.


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#1 Red_Falcon

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:31 PM

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You might remember this build's name from the BWE killer build. It's back and updated.
A Warrior’s role is to be a mobile fighter capable to adapt to every situation, not die and deal gigantic amounts of DPS: this build achieves exactly this.

This build offers:
  • Great Damage
  • Great Survivability
  • Great Control
  • Great Mobility
  • Very good Condition Removal
  • Ability to use 6 weapons at their full efficiency
If you dislike those “tank” builds that deal no damage and yet won’t survive longer than this build and deal sub-par damage, then you’ve opened the right thread.
As a rule of thumb there is no weapon setup that alone is capable of dealing with every single situation in the best way.
In order for your Warrior to be at 100% efficiency, you’ll sometimes have to swap from your Main set to another 2 sets when specific situations occurs: the Control set and the Mobility set.


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Armor:
- Pow/Prec/Tou on armor and weapon (usually named Knight’s) or Berserker.
- Divinity runes or Ruby Jewels/Orbs (12% crit dmg)

Jewels:
- Pow/Prec/CritDmg from jewels (36% crit damage).

Sigils:
- Either Superior Accuracy or Strength, personal preference; it's also useful to stack 250 power by using Sigil of Bloodlust

Food:
- Orrian Truffle steak + Superior sharpening stone

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http://gw2skills.net...SVwuUhzA;TEAjCA


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This set is your main set to use for most situations, where you’re not required to apply strong control and meleeing is viable: it deals fearsome DPS and very good mobility/defense.
Usage:
Stack vulnerability and build 25 might with your GS, using HB+WA, then switch to Axe for DPS and further vuln spam with Cyclone.
Time your Endure Pain well right, keep FGJ up, and use SoS only when really needed (the passive endurance regen boost is great), use dodges properly and make correct use of Whirlwind Attack’s evade and Shield Block.

Don’t forget to thow your cripples on dangerous melee mobs.


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This set is needed when you face situations with a lot of trash mobs and you need to control them to prevent a wipe.
It’s not necessary to use if you have a Guardian who knows how to use Wards, but if you don’t then it’s your job to control mobs.

Usage:
Swap defence traits for Hammer & Mace traits.
Swap FGJ and SoS for Signet of Fury and Berserker Stance in order to build adrenaline fast and spam your profession skills for stun; alternatively, a mix of this and Stomp/Kick/Bull's Charge/Bolas for further control.
You’ll be swapping between Hammer and Maces as soon as all your skills are on CD; spread weakness, stuns and knockdowns.



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This set is used for those fights where you face frequent spikes and AoEs which prevent you and your team from effectively standing in melee for long.

Usage:
Swap the Tactics trait for Longbow range, and possibly the Arms traits for Deep Cuts and Blademaster.
Swap utilities for Signet of Fury, Berserker Stance, Frenzy; this is in order to spam Combustive shot, combo finish with Explosive shot into AoE might, apply Frenzy for autoattack’s combo finisher projectile burning when fire field is up.

If you are chased by a boss or heavy-hitters simply drop a lvl 3 combustive on the ground and circle it so you're dealing AoE DPS and condition while kiting.
It’s a good idea to periodically swap to your secondary set to spread Vigor, Swiftness on allies and Weakness on enemies; don’t be afraid to swap just to use Leap either, it can save your life or simply allow you to get back into the fight faster.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 02 February 2013 - 04:57 AM.


#2 Washi

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:43 PM

So you have no vitality and the only condition removal is the signet with ridiculous cooldown? Invincible build in a world without conditions...

#3 Naekuh

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:47 PM

Well i didnt want to kill your post... but...

Your build to me i would only use for WvWvW, however i wouldnt use the same traits you have, but instead use more heavily into the passive defense traits which trigger on condition.

The 20/30/0/20/0  GS/Rifle build is by far the BEST for the warrior for general PvE / Farming... hands down, nothing will beat that build in DPS unless we bring back the old Axe Burst skills to its full glory.  (miss my old eviscorate)

Edited by Naekuh, 01 October 2012 - 08:48 PM.


#4 Red_Falcon

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 10:46 PM

View PostWashi, on 01 October 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

So you have no vitality and the only condition removal is the signet with ridiculous cooldown? Invincible build in a world without conditions...

Vitality on a Warrior is mathematically the worst choice.
Warriors get the largest diminishing returns on VIT, read up on the VIT/TOU threads.
With my extreme Toughness I never died in any dungeon fight, the damage reduction is just great and makes me survive much more than any Warrior with 32k health and getting hit for 50% more than I do.
And there is no point to stack a tonload of condition removal in PvE, one is enough; in situations where it isn't, replacing surge with Mending does the job.
Please learn the mechanics of GW2 before posting.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 01 October 2012 - 10:49 PM.


#5 vipperstrike

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 03:06 AM

hmm what about dual axe's isn't that better than axe/shield if you are wanting dps you would lose the block of course but gain an even more powerful attack

#6 Fizzgig

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 03:57 AM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 01 October 2012 - 10:46 PM, said:

Vitality on a Warrior is mathematically the worst choice.
Warriors get the largest diminishing returns on VIT, read up on the VIT/TOU threads.
With my extreme Toughness I never died in any dungeon fight, the damage reduction is just great and makes me survive much more than any Warrior with 32k health and getting hit for 50% more than I do.
And there is no point to stack a tonload of condition removal in PvE, one is enough; in situations where it isn't, replacing surge with Mending does the job.
Please learn the mechanics of GW2 before posting.


There are many dungeon encounters where you will get back to back conditions on you. Also toughness will not protect you from condition damage. So having a good buffer of vit can be helpful.

Also insulting people by saying they know nothing about game mechanics because they offer advice/constructive criticism on your build reflects poorly on you.

Then again what the hell do I know my build guide only has close to 15k views.

#7 Red_Falcon

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:55 AM

View PostFizzgig, on 02 October 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

There are many dungeon encounters where you will get back to back conditions on you. Also toughness will not protect you from condition damage. So having a good buffer of vit can be helpful.
Also insulting people by saying they know nothing about game mechanics because they offer advice/constructive criticism on your build reflects poorly on you.

No one in this game carries more than 1-2 condition removals in any setup unless they are going support.
For those rare cases with constant condition application we have light fields/guards/eles to insta-remove them, focusing an entire build around something that happens in maybe 1% of the game is definitely not something you should be suggesting wildly around here.

SoS and Mending together can easily take care of conditions in the remaining 99% of the game.

View PostFizzgig, on 02 October 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

Then again what the hell do I know my build guide only has close to 15k views.

Curious because I'm a guidemaker since 2008 and I make a lot of revenue from views, my guides have more than 250k views, my Warrior guide on this forum got 30k or so.
But I don't necessarily need to shove this in face of every person that disagrees with me, would go a long way in showing lack of a real argument.

Views are hardly an indicator of quality content btw, just look at what are the most viewed videos on youtube or the most searched things on google and you'll realize people digs more trash than anything.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 02 October 2012 - 04:57 AM.


#8 Fizzgig

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:58 AM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 02 October 2012 - 04:55 AM, said:

No one in this game carries more than 1-2 condition removals in any setup unless they are going support.
For those rare cases with constant condition application we have light fields/guards/eles to insta-remove them, focusing an entire build around something that happens in maybe 1% of the game is definitely not something you should be suggesting wildly around here.

SoS and Mending together can easily take care of conditions in the remaining 99% of the game.



Curious because I'm a guidemaker since 2008 and I make a lot of revenue from views, my guides have more than 250k views, my Warrior guide on this forum got 30k or so.
But I don't necessarily need to shove this in face of every person that disagrees with me, would go a long way in showing lack of a real argument.

Views are hardly an indicator of quality content, just look at what are the most viewed videos on youtube or the most searched things on google and you'll realize people digs more trash than anything.

Too bad from 2008 to now you have not developed any people skills at all.

Nerd rage ftw huh?

Anyway good luck have fun in Guild Wars 2 it's a great game.

#9 MyOne

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:01 AM

sorry bro, but u will not last with that build on twilight explorer runs.

no utility, no group buff .

you have skilled shieldmastery but as for you main weapon set aka. gs - axe /shield, when using gs your wasting that points on defense.
Signet of stamina, lol. Way to ego, no team play, why u take signet of stamina , when shake it off removes conditions for the whole group, again this build is bad.

Since when does warrior bring more than 3 weapons in a dungeon run? This build only has a fancy name, but in real time gaming will fail. No Vita, only toughness, have fun eating conditions.

And no, I didnt say you should STACK vita,  but good warirors know what im talking about. This build is egoistic and not worth taking in a dungeon twilight explorer 15 min max runs.



Control Set: Hammer <-> Mace/Mace
This set is needed when you face situations with a lot of trash mobs and you need to control them to prevent a wipe.


- Fear me , Shake it Off, Warhorn plus trait does this, way better.
- Shouts with soldier rune does this. way  better. and heal shout trait.

Since when do a Warrior need Endure Pain in Explorers? Dodge, heal, dodge is more than enough in ALL explorer routes. Unless you love standing still. Circle strafe, ty.

Dont make playing Warriors sound more complicated than it is.

Edited by MyOne, 02 October 2012 - 08:08 AM.


#10 Red_Falcon

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 12:17 PM

I've ran every dungeon with that, no issues.
If you don't like the build fine, but in fact it works wonders. Keep using your bad Wammo style builds :)
Better stick to official forum when I post stuff like this, seems like Guru warriors are all mace/shield Guardian wannabes that deal no damage and stack 20 condition removals lol.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 02 October 2012 - 12:18 PM.


#11 Washi

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 01:36 PM

Why do you even post builds on a forum if you can't take criticism? This build is far from perfect and you expect us to praise you for "enlightning" us.

#12 Zerikin Loukbel

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:13 PM

Interesting build. I think you would do better dropping the points in tactics and discipline though.Grab furious from arms and berserker's power from strength. You get 10% more damage on bleeding targets (should be pretty much all the time in a group). More damage based on adrenaline level and huge amounts of adrenaline with furious to keep berserker and adrenal health going.

#13 Wonsavage

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:41 PM

A full shout warrior, even without going a healing shouts build, offers FAR more to a group than this build, without sacrificing any DPS.  And TBH, going a healing shouts build with soldier runes hasn't hurt my DPS much at all.  The funny thing about this build is that it's just as selfish as a pure DPS build, but ends up being even worse.  At least DPS builds offer "pure DPS" to the group, but your DPS contribution would be no more than a healing should build.  And you offer virtually no utility to the group at all; really everything here is just to protect yourself.  I'm sure you'd survive every time to revive your dead teammates after the fight and call them scrubs and whatnot, but I'd much rather take a "supportive" warrior over whatever the * this is any day.

Edited by Wonsavage, 02 October 2012 - 02:42 PM.


#14 KrayZ33

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 03:20 PM

I believe a 10/20/0/30/10 build with soldier runes offers around the same amount of defense, damage AND adds really good group support (knight armor, berserker jewelry+weapon)
even if you choose not to use soldier runes but divinity ones, you end up with even more damage.and better support.

and why Signet of Stamina over Shake it Off! ? stunbreak+condition removal+group support vs condition removal (I won't consider the endurance regeneration a plus because so far the only boss I encountered where I ran out of endurance is the third one in Arah and only because his auto-attack deals 8k damage and has an really awkward movement pattern)


Quote

SoS and Mending together can easily take care of conditions in the remaining 99% of the game.

I don't think so....also using a heal skill for condition removal is a total waste imho.
no matter how awesome someone is, there is always the time where you'll end up getting hit by something.. and if my healskill is on cooldown because I had to remove poison+bleed (because by any means, I can't count on random players to remove my conditions all the time) then thats a huge letdown

sure, i know you'll use it as a last resort but even then, its to late.

Edited by KrayZ33, 02 October 2012 - 03:34 PM.


#15 Lilitu

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 03:43 PM

It is my belief that crit and crit damage offer the least bang for buck in terms of stats, and that it is very much an all or nothing thing because both of those stats bounce off each other nicely. Power offers the best return but you can only get so much of it. While in pvp you can get away with speccing crit burst because you have the chance of not being targeted,or being able to burn your attacker before he burns you.. Dungeons are a little different as you cannot afford the survivability hit that comes with making the most out of crits. Because of that i find power, vitality, toughness, and sometimes condition damage on long fights as the best pve stats. I think you're doing well to grab toughness but I'm undecided if the best route to this is the trait line.

If you swapped the points in arms and disc for max strength and took empowered in tactics you'd gain upwards of 30% dps at the loss of roughly 10% crit at 200% crit damage..  (so call that 10% overall). The difference gets even bigger if you decide to take zerkers rage 12% dmg buff while max adren. I wouldn't be surprised if this route plus pwr/vit/tough gear yielded similar dps and better survivability.

#16 MyOne

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:09 PM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 02 October 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

I've ran every dungeon with that, no issues.
If you don't like the build fine, but in fact it works wonders. Keep using your bad Wammo style builds :)
Better stick to official forum when I post stuff like this, seems like Guru warriors are all mace/shield Guardian wannabes that deal no damage and stack 20 condition removals lol.

dont get jelly that i can insta remove 2 conditions from my whole group and another 1 from myself every 16 seconds.

#17 Red_Falcon

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:11 PM

View PostMyOne, on 02 October 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

dont get jelly that i can insta remove 2 conditions from my whole group and another 1 from myself every 16 seconds.

Guardian/Ele can do the same 5 times better.
Warriors can DPS 5 times better than other classes.

The scheme is pretty clear here, but one can do whatever he wants.
It won't make claiming the Warrior is a condition removal bot any less ridiculous, tho.

#18 Newsinz

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:17 PM

Honestly, this thread kind of shows that there are many elitest folks playing this game.  OP Posted a build and the first post was a passive aggresive "you have no idea what you're talking about" post.

Then the second Post was "I dont want to kill your post but..." Personally this guy/girl lost any validity in the first sentence.  Even if the second part of his/her post was giving feedback and giving a personal opinion.  The first part was again Passive Aggresive.

Then Fizzgig jumps in and gives some constructive feedback, but then talks about how he/she was rude about not taking constructive critisim.  Really?  Where was any of the first 2 posts after the OP's orginal post constructive?  Instead they came in acting like he/she was and idiot?  OP defended with the same sort of mentality he/she was shown.  While he/she could have ignored it and moved on.  When you attack someones idea in this case a build of course there is going to be some poking and proding.

MyOne Started off with "Sorry Bro"  Again in this context it was (or at least from the context I was reading) a "Dont act like you know everything because I know more then you do." type of comment.

This entire thread was fail from the moment he/she hit "Post"

To the OP: thanks for sharing the build.  If it works for you great, Im sure someone will ignore all other crap and give it a try and they will either like it.  Or they wont.  Hopefully they are mature enough to come on the forums and give you real constructive feedback.

Edited by Newsinz, 02 October 2012 - 10:20 PM.


#19 Narmo23

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:47 AM

View PostMyOne, on 02 October 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

sorry bro, but u will not last with that build on twilight explorer runs.

no utility, no group buff .

you have skilled shieldmastery but as for you main weapon set aka. gs - axe /shield, when using gs your wasting that points on defense.
Signet of stamina, lol. Way to ego, no team play, why u take signet of stamina , when shake it off removes conditions for the whole group, again this build is bad.

Since when does warrior bring more than 3 weapons in a dungeon run? This build only has a fancy name, but in real time gaming will fail. No Vita, only toughness, have fun eating conditions.

And no, I didnt say you should STACK vita,  but good warirors know what im talking about. This build is egoistic and not worth taking in a dungeon twilight explorer 15 min max runs.



Control Set: Hammer <-> Mace/Mace
This set is needed when you face situations with a lot of trash mobs and you need to control them to prevent a wipe.


- Fear me , Shake it Off, Warhorn plus trait does this, way better.
- Shouts with soldier rune does this. way  better. and heal shout trait.

Since when do a Warrior need Endure Pain in Explorers? Dodge, heal, dodge is more than enough in ALL explorer routes. Unless you love standing still. Circle strafe, ty.

Dont make playing Warriors sound more complicated than it is.

Judging from this post, I figure that you know quite a bit about this class.

Mind giving some information regarding stat choices on armor/weapon/jewelry? I'm currently sitting on my first set of Exotics (armor/weapon/jewellery), and working towards my 2nd set, but I have no idea what to grab. Thanks!



P.S. This isn't an offending post or anything -- just want some information on that stuff since I haven't been able to find someone or a thread that actually talks about BiS items.

Edited by Narmo23, 03 October 2012 - 06:48 AM.


#20 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 07:12 AM

View PostNewsinz, on 02 October 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

Honestly, this thread kind of shows that there are many elitest folks playing this game.  OP Posted a build and the first post was a passive aggresive "you have no idea what you're talking about" post.

Then the second Post was "I dont want to kill your post but..." Personally this guy/girl lost any validity in the first sentence.  Even if the second part of his/her post was giving feedback and giving a personal opinion.  The first part was again Passive Aggresive.

Then Fizzgig jumps in and gives some constructive feedback, but then talks about how he/she was rude about not taking constructive critisim.  Really?  Where was any of the first 2 posts after the OP's orginal post constructive?  Instead they came in acting like he/she was and idiot?  OP defended with the same sort of mentality he/she was shown.  While he/she could have ignored it and moved on.  When you attack someones idea in this case a build of course there is going to be some poking and proding.

MyOne Started off with "Sorry Bro"  Again in this context it was (or at least from the context I was reading) a "Dont act like you know everything because I know more then you do." type of comment.

This entire thread was fail from the moment he/she hit "Post"

To the OP: thanks for sharing the build.  If it works for you great, Im sure someone will ignore all other crap and give it a try and they will either like it.  Or they wont.  Hopefully they are mature enough to come on the forums and give you real constructive feedback.

Yeah this is regrettable especially this early in the game.  You simply can't critique any build yet unless you try it at one month into it, unless your one of those guys who only plays FotM (i.e. everything else sucks until people use it).

You might want to put some facts and figures in here, though, Red Falcon.  Just saying "thoughness wioll let you survive more than having vitality" is pretty nebulous to most of us since we don't know the exact mechanisms of the stats.  You could take some data
of damage done to you in a high toughness zero vitality, versus a medium toughness, small vitality build.

And OP, yes the official forums have massively less fanboy rage.  I actually lost hope that WvWvW would receive any help because popular opinion on guru seemed to be that it was fine, yet when actually looking at the official site, those saying it are fine are in the extreme minority, and those against the current way WvWvW handles things are providing lots of detailed logical posts.  Take a break from guru to restore your sanity ;)

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 03 October 2012 - 07:12 AM.

Fun while it lasted.  I guess.

#21 Millimidget

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:53 AM

I'm just starting on putting together a power/precision/toughness set, as I found my precision/toughness/condition damage set only worthwhile in dungeons (toughness+health regen >>> other options).

I'll maintain the same sword+warhorn/rifle setup in WvW, though I may switch to sword+shield/rifle for any additional dungeons I run.

http://www.gw2build....0.10.30.15.0.15

View PostFizzgig, on 02 October 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

Then again what the hell do I know my build guide only has close to 15k views.
Who are you, and why should I care?

Edited by Millimidget, 03 October 2012 - 10:03 AM.


#22 Washi

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:15 AM

View PostNewsinz, on 02 October 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

OP Posted a build and the first post was a passive aggresive "you have no idea what you're talking about" post.

Where was any of the first 2 posts after the OP's orginal post constructive?  Instead they came in acting like he/she was and idiot?
Not constructive? I'm sorry but the OP claims we don't know the mechanics of this game but he ignores the fact that conditions bypass toughness. He has no additional life and he pretty much can't remove conditions (mending, shake it off, soldier runes - anything would help) but claims his build is "invincible".
And yes, he has no idea what he's doing.

#23 narenek

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:07 AM

View PostWashi, on 03 October 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

Not constructive? I'm sorry but the OP claims we don't know the mechanics of this game but he ignores the fact that conditions bypass toughness. He has no additional life and he pretty much can't remove conditions (mending, shake it off, soldier runes - anything would help) but claims his build is "invincible".
And yes, he has no idea what he's doing.

It's true that conditions bypass toughness but he's not ignoring it... infact if you read back into this forum from beta Red_Falcon is one of the most active posters in a debate about vit vs toughness and is well aware of this. The general concensus was that the two were roughly equal when condition damage accounted for about 25% of the overall damage (I could be wrong on this number i'm going by memory). When condition damage is below this threshhold then toughness becomes superior. Now as Red_falcon is saying the majority of damage is direct damage (even though some encounters are condition heavy the average is below this threshhold, plus you can stop some of it dead with condition removal). When you cannot switch builds mid dungeon etc you play for the set that will give you the best reduction in damage over all.

If toughness gives better results for 70% (random plucked number that is above 50%) of bosses in dungeons then it's a better choice than vitality in general. It's better to trait for 70% of bosses than 30% and people here are giving him grief about the 30%. Even with those 30% if as Red says you've other classes with much better at this removal than yourself then it's best to leave it to them with some of your own backup.

People are also lambasting him for not bringing utility when they know absolutely nothing about him or who he runs dungeons with. As he mentions other classes are better at this group buff utility and it's likely he runs with these on a regular basis. Whats the use in Red running a utlity build if it's superfluous in the group. If he does as you say and runs utility with heavy condition removal he would actually be a detriment to his group as half his spec is overwritten by others.. the very thing you accuse him of being by running a damage orientated build.

So without knowing him, his history or how he runs his groups you accuse him all in one post of being selfish, unknowledgable, a detriment to the group etc etc.. and then in the next post accuse him of being aggresive and having no social skills. Huge pot meet kettle .. he's black.

#24 atomicmew

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:28 AM

View PostWashi, on 03 October 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

Not constructive? I'm sorry but the OP claims we don't know the mechanics of this game but he ignores the fact that conditions bypass toughness. He has no additional life and he pretty much can't remove conditions (mending, shake it off, soldier runes - anything would help) but claims his build is "invincible".
And yes, he has no idea what he's doing.
Sorry, but if you think taking vit over toughness is constructive on a warrior, you're the one who has no idea.  You get far more mileage out of toughness, vit has the least value on warrior compared to any other class.

And obviously, if you're going against condition heavy areas you take more condition removal.  It's not as if your skills and traits are glued to your character.  Be a bit more logical, please.

#25 Millimidget

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:42 AM

View PostWashi, on 03 October 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

I'm sorry but the OP claims we don't know the mechanics of this game but he ignores the fact that conditions bypass toughness.
I can't find where he claims that you or anyone else does not know the mechanics of this game, but plain as day are the responses deriding him.

The need for condition removal is very specific to particular dungeon encounters, sPvP/tournaments, and arguably WvW (where it sounds like you're pigeonholing yourself into support). In TA, for example, Shake It Off! is of negligble value because the most threatening conditions are either constantly being reapplied or are applied in conjunction with less threatening conditions, and Shake It Off! will as often remove a snare/immobilize as poison. Rather than slotting even more condition removal, or always preceding Shake It Off! with the warhorn's movespeed buff, I've left it to other classes to remove conditions when they can't just be ignored, as other classes are much better at removing conditions.

Anyway, the only places I can see both condition removal and a health buffer being important are in sPvP/tournaments. You should preface your comments with such disclosure, before you start confusing new players. PvE in particular focuses moreso on sustained healing, which is facilitated by high toughness (I'm healing for as much as 500 per second by myself, let alone what support classes offer in addition). WvW is so heavily dictated by numbers, and warriors are so misplaced in and around anything with walls that I'd just as soon disregard discussing it beyond saying that you might as well play buffbot if you want to run with the zerg, or a tournament build if you plan on mostly roaming WvW zones in tournament-sized groups.

But by no means assert that the OP is wholly incorrect, to the point of being deserving of the vitriol you and the other sPvPers spew.

I don't sPvP or enter tournaments, and my dungeon experience is limited to full clears of AC, TA, SE and HotW, but my experience has been that a toughness+no vitality build works fine, particularly provided you play primarily with a guild. Do I get downed sometimes in a dungeon? Sure, and I'd be just as likely to be downed with a power/toughess/vitality build, assuming I'm even tanking at all because the damage output is so inferior with that build.

EDIT: The biggest problem here may be that putting together a particular set outside of sPvP is time consuming, and so players are unlikely to make the effort to test out another build. Compound this with the fact that sPvP/tournaments are where this build is weakest, and it's easy to dismiss the build out of hand. Personally, I find it fairly easy to tank with my precision/toughness/condition damage build, especially when my group includes a support class offering one or more health regen effects.

Edited by Millimidget, 03 October 2012 - 11:52 AM.


#26 Washi

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:24 PM

View Postatomicmew, on 03 October 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

Sorry, but if you think taking vit over toughness is constructive on a warrior, you're the one who has no idea.
I never said it was. All I said that no vit AND almost no condition removal is a bad idea. I mean if you want to only do damage why don't you go full glass cannon?

But this build is advertised as an INVINCIBLE berserker. So I just pointed out that it is not invincible and that any condition pressure will crush it.

In my opinion taking soldier runes with it would make a ton of difference and would not lower damage that much.

Edited by Washi, 03 October 2012 - 12:25 PM.


#27 Red_Falcon

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:40 PM

Thanks rabidus, newsinz, atomic and millim for slapping the elitists back at their place.
All I see from those is "Healing shout Wammo is the only way to play a Warrior" which is obviously the farest thing from reality.

Being that Warrior is the highest damage/DPS class along with Thief in the game, it's safe to leave condition removal / team protection to classes that are much better than us to it (Eles, Guardians) while we focus on what we do best.
When you have enough experience with Exp dungeons you'll realize that killing the boss and adds fast lets you survive much better than letting them live and have everyone focusing on defense.
Big DPS is a great form of team support, especially since it does not overwrite or compete with another support class.

I seriously hope this forum won't turn into a hole of basement dweller who will bash anyone who isn't stickying to their favourite gimmick, especially in the case of tremendously effective builds such as the one posted - which again, I have tested in all Exp dungeons with outstanding success.
Quit trying to force people to play your way and your way alone, especially when your way is a Wammo-style build that relies on condition removal (outclassed by many other classes) and poor amounts of reactive healing (the worst form of team protection).

@Washi
In a high condition application environment even shout builds will be not enough, that's why Guardians and Eles can remove one condition per second to the whole team, let alone the combo fields.
Pidgeon-holing yourself into condition removal when high condition situations are very few isn't certainly a mandatory setup, nor better than mine that allows to not die to direct damage, remove enough conditions and deal 10 times your damage.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 03 October 2012 - 02:49 PM.


#28 Washi

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 03:00 PM

Oh right, additional 12% critical damage makes you deal 10 times more damage. Sound logic. OK I will remember not to criticize any other build, because this forum is only about patting on the back. And you call me elitist, hilarious.

#29 Red_Falcon

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:50 PM

View PostWashi, on 03 October 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

Oh right, additional 12% critical damage makes you deal 10 times more damage. Sound logic.

Nope, having properly traited and geared for damage does.
Let me explain in detail.

In a full shout build you can't get both the hammer/mace traits, the 12% trait and the GS might-building trait.
- If you go full shout and defense you'll have slightly more survivability but your damage will be terrible in comparison: no GS trait for 25 might, no Prec bonus, no 12% dmg bonus.
- If you go full shout and arms/12% you'll have similar damage to this build but lack double endure pain and hammer/mace traits, thus surviving a lot less and having impaired hammer/mace usage.

With this build you can pick both max damage, max defense and still high condition removal if you so want.
It's just how the Warrior trait tree works.

View PostWashi, on 03 October 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

OK I will remember not to criticize any other build, because this forum is only about patting on the back. And you call me elitist, hilarious.

I thoroughly answered your criticism about condition removal, I'll try to be more specific.

The default build covers the large majority of the game with 2 condition removals.
When one meets an ecounter with high condition application he can swap signet with SIO and use Soldier runes, getting almost the same condition removal of a shout build while also maintining double endure pain and max DPS.

The core point of this build is keeping defense & damage to the highest levels, condition removal to good->very good level (depending on rune choice), and the ability to equip 3 fully traited weapons.

The only thing a shout healer gets more is 6k heal every 20s, and needs to sacrifice most of the above in order to do it.
One is free to do so if he wants, but he can't claim his crippled build can do all this one can or that it is better.

If they wanted us to be heal/buffbots and nothing else, the main site would show this:

Posted Image

Edited by Red_Falcon, 03 October 2012 - 04:56 PM.


#30 VoidPK

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:20 PM

View PostWashi, on 03 October 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

Oh right, additional 12% critical damage makes you deal 10 times more damage. Sound logic. OK I will remember not to criticize any other build, because this forum is only about patting on the back. And you call me elitist, hilarious.

I'm pretty sure its about your delivery not your opinion.  Back to reading which is all i do on forum.




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