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[Build] The Invincible Berserker - it's back.


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#241 MrCats

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:16 PM

No, i didn't think you were. This is text after all so it's hard to tell anyway.

#242 arrggos

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:15 PM

one question. isnt it better to put 10 points to power instead of vitality, in order to activate the ''Bererker's Power'', as you are building allot of adrenaline? In this way , i think, you can increase your damage alot! I know inspiring banners is also important, but which is the best? thnx for reading!

#243 Nikephoros

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:50 PM

I've enjoyed reading this thread of late.  It's two people arguing about which bad build is worse.  Break out the pop corn.

#244 Red_Falcon

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:25 PM

I updated the link the the build since I've been requested it in-game.
Still a great build, extremely versatile in allowing 6 traited weapons, maxed defense and great DPS.

I wish the Warrior wasn't so castrated in PvP so I would play it again...

#245 Stigma

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:52 PM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 03 October 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

If they wanted us to be heal/buffbots and nothing else, the main site would show this:

Posted Image

Better stick to official forum when I post stuff like this, seems like Guru warriors are all mace/shield Guardian wannabes that deal no damage and stack 20 condition removals lol.

This is hilarious. Sonic Boon wars will wanna roast you for this LOL. You seem like a funny dude, but then you went ahead and insult all shout warriors and members of this forum >.> ...nonetheless, the war against shout warriors was funny to read

Edited by Stigma, 31 January 2013 - 09:14 PM.


#246 Red_Falcon

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:09 PM

View PostStigma, on 31 January 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

This is hilarious. Sonic Boon wars will wanna roast you for this LOL. You seem like a funny dude, but then you went ahead and insult all shout warriors and members of this forum >.> ...nonetheless, the war against shout warriors was funny to read

"Sonic boon wars"... now you rip off a build that's been around for months before and you take credit for it?
If GW1 vets heard of this... At least I made mine myself
.
Honestly I have no problems with shout Warriors throwing shit here, they're just embarassing themselves and showing everyone their status of baddies.
Wasting 3 utilities for a 6k heal is a terribly noob idea equal to GW1 Wammo; all mobs in endgame hits for that amount, so you waste 3 utilties for the equivalent of one Aegis.
Double endure pain gives you 8 seconds of 0 damage taken.

If one believes blocking the equivalent of one hit is better than blocking 8 seconds of hit, he can't really be talked into sense.
Let fractal teams call him an idiot several times then he will learn by mistake.

#247 Nikephoros

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:03 AM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 31 January 2013 - 10:09 PM, said:


Wasting 3 utilities for a 6k heal is a terribly noob idea equal to GW1 Wammo; all mobs in endgame hits for that amount, so you waste 3 utilties for the equivalent of one Aegis.

While you're right about shout heals being bad, it doesn't make your trash build good.  I would be careful throwing the word noob around, were I in your shoes.

#248 Red_Falcon

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:59 AM

View PostNikephoros, on 01 February 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

While you're right about shout heals being bad, it doesn't make your trash build good.  I would be careful throwing the word noob around, were I in your shoes.

25k HB and 8s immortality are trash? They are the only good tools poor Warriors get in this game.
It is also a widely used build by the best pvpers out there but sure it must be trash.
I'm not sure what else you could come up with when talking about a simplified and very limited class such as the Warrior; EP/DP are the only disengages/spike-nullifiers.

But feel free to show us this epic build of yours that makes everything looks like crap then, mr all hat and no cattle.
Your posts sounds a lot like a classic foreveralone "hey I exist! I bash the good guide!" sadness that makes me smile so pitifully.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 01 February 2013 - 04:00 AM.


#249 Stigma

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:44 AM

So much passion in this thread. I love it! Much better than everyone faking respect for each other in the other ever so popular PvE warrior  thread...

On the other hand, Red Falcon's build appears a lot better if I look at it through the eyes of WvW/Semi PvP rather than PvE. In that case, yes he is right that it is a solid PvP build. The only thing I would never do is throw 10 points into Tactics for Longbow range for PvE. But hey if you just like running a longbow warrior and that's how you like it. More power to you.

I don't understand why ppl go around calling other builds trash. This Invincible Berserker build isn't much different than many other warriors use. Just like how Sonic Boon isn't much different than any other shout heal build. So everyone is using trash builds?

#250 Ehragus

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:59 AM

View PostStigma, on 01 February 2013 - 04:44 AM, said:

...The only thing I would never do is throw 10 points into Tactics for Longbow range for PvE. But hey if you just like running a longbow warrior and that's how you like it. More power to you.



I do that. I prefer longbow for the AoE and combo field. In my eyes the longbow is superior to the rifle.

#251 Nikephoros

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:43 AM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 01 February 2013 - 03:59 AM, said:

25k HB and 8s immortality are trash? They are the only good tools poor Warriors get in this game.
It is also a widely used build by the best pvpers out there but sure it must be trash.
I'm not sure what else you could come up with when talking about a simplified and very limited class such as the Warrior; EP/DP are the only disengages/spike-nullifiers.

But feel free to show us this epic build of yours that makes everything looks like crap then, mr all hat and no cattle.
Your posts sounds a lot like a classic foreveralone "hey I exist! I bash the good guide!" sadness that makes me smile so pitifully.

I thought we were in the PvE section, and you're talking about PvP as a defense of your scrub build.  Which is it?  I can't really comment on how it is in PvP (though I suspect it's bad there, too) but I can tell you pretty solidly that it's awful for PvE content where build matters, like dungeons or fractals.

#252 Red_Falcon

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:18 PM

View PostNikephoros, on 01 February 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

I thought we were in the PvE section, and you're talking about PvP as a defense of your scrub build.  Which is it?  I can't really comment on how it is in PvP (though I suspect it's bad there, too) but I can tell you pretty solidly that it's awful for PvE content where build matters, like dungeons or fractals.

Blah blah blah.
Still waiting for your better build and explanation of why the best defensive tools Warriors get (EP, DP) would be trash in your eyes.
Again it sounds a loooot like you're attention whoring here.
Go ahead and post your 20/20 glass cannon stating how good it is because I bet it's something like that you'd be pulling off, if not a cheesy shout build.

@Stigma
The 10 tactics has 3 reasons:
1. Banner trait. In some encounters banner is better than signet (sigh, to think Warrior is the only class to blow an ELITE to get basic buffs makes me cry), for instance against the fire elemental in the end of volcano where people will die and need an insta rez (and it's best to not do classic rez due to strong AoE) or many other situations.
2. Leg specialist. Warrior accesses a lot of AoE cripples which means a lot of AoE immob with this. It can literally save a team when you lockdown a whole pull of 10 mobs twice with GS throw + hammer crippling wave, and also to lockdown Elemental / Mining suit.
3. Bow 1200 range can be very useful for fights such as dredge fractal (where AoE is king), hitting pots and AoE mobs in ascalon, etc.
I actually found bow to be the most entertaining and useful of the Warrior weps, with its ability to permaburn and big AoE dmg.

The core of the build is that you get access to all the good Warrior traits for all situations without ever needing to respec.
You can trait your GS, Rifle, Bow, Banner, Axe, Sword, Hammer, Shield, Mace and Longbow.
10 weapons at full efficiency in a single build.
Versatility is the key to keep Warrior in the best shape and be always giving 100% in all encounters.


View PostStigma, on 01 February 2013 - 04:44 AM, said:

I don't understand why ppl go around calling other builds trash. This Invincible Berserker build isn't much different than many other warriors use. Just like how Sonic Boon isn't much different than any other shout heal build. So everyone is using trash builds?

Exactly.
It's not like we have 300 traits to pick from really, Warrior either goes anti-spike (EP/DP), healing (shout heal) or glass cannon (12% adr 10% gs dmg etc).
Anet said Warriors were the most "complete" class yet out of all my army of lvl 80s it's the most underdeveloped class.
My build is focused to make up for these flaws by getting all weapons at once, dps and 8s of immortality all in one go.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 01 February 2013 - 01:30 PM.


#253 Thaddeuz

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:39 PM

I'm a experienced Guardian, and just began to experiment with my level 80 Warrior. Your build feel comfortable to me, since i use the same low hp, high toughness combo to survive difficult fight, while still having more dps than a lot of people playing with me. Since i have no problem with my 15k hp Guardian to stay alive i didn't really want to put 30pts for 3k hp more and shout heal.

But i'm not totally sure about the use all weapons built. On my guardian i have about half the weapons on my inventory true, but your use of weapons show good strategic but poor in-fight adaptability. For example, i like having the greatsword and a range weapons because in high level fractal you need to swap between the two several time during the same fight.

But still, thanks for showing your build, it gave me some idea for mine.

#254 Ninja Battle Lion

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:36 PM

View PostStigma, on 01 February 2013 - 04:44 AM, said:

I don't understand why ppl go around calling other builds trash. This Invincible Berserker build isn't much different than many other warriors use. Just like how Sonic Boon isn't much different than any other shout heal build. So everyone is using trash builds?

It's a bit off topic, but one could be of the opinion that all shout heal builds are trash. Which means that indeed an awful lot of people are using trash builds.

As for EP, it's pretty meh on that CD. Rather have a Shield or something, if it fits into the build.

#255 Nikephoros

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:23 PM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 01 February 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

Blah blah blah.
Still waiting for your better build and explanation of why the best defensive tools Warriors get (EP, DP) would be trash in your eyes.
Again it sounds a loooot like you're attention whoring here.
Go ahead and post your 20/20 glass cannon stating how good it is because I bet it's something like that you'd be pulling off, if not a cheesy shout build.

I don't claim to be the inventor of any sort of special or original build.  I run dungeons and fractals with good players in organized groups, using a DPS build.  But you're right, I run a glass cannon build because I'm a good enough player to know how to dodge and I run with good enough groups to know what we're doing in each encounter.  

Secondly, if you want a specific critique, here goes:  your build sucks for dungeons or fractals because you have awful DPS, and stacking armor is irrelevant if you can dodge properly.  So you trade away the one thing warriors can do better than others, namely DPS and add irrelevant Toughness.  Now, I anticipate you'll tell me that this build is for pugging or open-world.  As far as pugs go, if you go in with the mindset that you need to be balanced to make up for their shortcomings you're just contributing to the group's failure.  As far as open world goes, here is a build that is perfectly capable of beating 99% of open world encounters: 0/0/0/0/0.  Main hand sword, no off hand.  Which is to say, open world pve can be done without dodging and is so easy that build is irrelevant.

So in summary, you build sucks for organized groups in instances, isn't especially useful in random pugs either.  So with that out of the way, I want you to go back to arguing with the sonic boom clown about whose laughable build is better or worse than the other, because I enjoy reading that greatly.

#256 crosswound81

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:06 AM

not everyone masters dodges from day one and if you say you did your full of yourself this build is pretty good to train up until your more confident in sacrificing defense for more dps. i don't see what he is doing wrong by offering a build by trying to help out other people. if people don't like the build stop coming back to read it.

#257 Red_Falcon

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 04:51 AM

View PostThaddeuz, on 01 February 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

I'm a experienced Guardian, and just began to experiment with my level 80 Warrior. Your build feel comfortable to me, since i use the same low hp, high toughness combo to survive difficult fight, while still having more dps than a lot of people playing with me. Since i have no problem with my 15k hp Guardian to stay alive i didn't really want to put 30pts for 3k hp more and shout heal.

But i'm not totally sure about the use all weapons built. On my guardian i have about half the weapons on my inventory true, but your use of weapons show good strategic but poor in-fight adaptability. For example, i like having the greatsword and a range weapons because in high level fractal you need to swap between the two several time during the same fight.

But still, thanks for showing your build, it gave me some idea for mine.

Well Warrior is different than Guardian in that its strength relies much on versatility rather than some special features all other classes rely on.

Sure you can get away with a single weapon swap, but that will lead to problems in some places.
Not having a LB greatly reduces ranged DPS in those cases you need to DPS many mobs but melee is too risky.
Not having Hammer means you lack strong AoE control.
Etc etc.

Mostly depends on what you want from the class, if you're fine in pidgeon-holing yourself into a couple roles or have the best setup for every situation (I get it that not everyone is this obsessive on self performance tho).

I have 80 Guardian too btw, I still prefer it over Warrior tho. You'll see why...

View PostNikephoros, on 01 February 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

I don't claim to be the inventor of any sort of special or original build.

That's very coherent and mature of you to bash others' builds when you have no good build yourself to show.

View PostNikephoros, on 01 February 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

your build sucks for dungeons or fractals because you have awful DPS

That's simply false.
The build has little less DPS than a full glass cannon and gets tenfold the survivability of it.
DPS is still very high and HB hits for 25k dmg.

If you can do much better DPS go ahead and prove it, like you proved that you have "pro" builds earlier.

View PostNikephoros, on 01 February 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

stacking armor is irrelevant if you can dodge properly.

I never mentioned stacking armor of any sort, nor it is fundamental with this build.
I actually suggest normal berserker gear+ruby orbs as gear.
The build uses EP/DP to mitigate damage not armor itself.

Third fail in one post, I think we got a final deal here. *points the door*

Edited by Red_Falcon, 02 February 2013 - 04:52 AM.


#258 Red_Falcon

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:02 AM

View Postcrosswound81, on 02 February 2013 - 01:06 AM, said:

not everyone masters dodges from day one and if you say you did your full of yourself this build is pretty good to train up until your more confident in sacrificing defense for more dps. i don't see what he is doing wrong by offering a build by trying to help out other people. if people don't like the build stop coming back to read it.

Sometimes you simply cannot avoid damage.
Either endurance runs out and especially for a meleer it's not enough, or a sudden spike comes out of nowhere and you either die (total glass cannon) or survive (this build), sometimes a boss or mobs place 5 AoEs in a shape that no matter in what direction you dodge, you will land on a mega-damage spike.


People who claim dodge is the solution to everything and you can go around with super low health/armor are the same people that die every pull in high Fractals and force you to go back to LA and get someone with a proper build.

This build is not for people who want to be carried around.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 02 February 2013 - 05:04 AM.


#259 Nikephoros

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:20 PM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 02 February 2013 - 04:51 AM, said:

That's very coherent and mature of you to bash others' builds when you have no good build yourself to show.

I don't need to invent a unique snowflake with a cute name to tell you that your build sucks.  



Quote

That's simply false.
The build has little less DPS than a full glass cannon and gets tenfold the survivability of it.
DPS is still very high and HB hits for 25k dmg.

I can easily imagine the scenarios where that happens... 25 stacks of might and 25 stacks of vulnerability on a light armor boss or some trash mob.  Posting random numbers means nothing.  The fact is your DPS is sub-optimal.  Why would a group want a DPS character who isn't efficient at DPSing?

Quote

If you can do much better DPS go ahead and prove it, like you proved that you have "pro" builds earlier.

There are plenty of videos with me playing warrior doing dungeon speed runs available.  To whit, there are no videos of you doing anything useful with this trash pile.  Where is your proof?

Quote

I never mentioned stacking armor of any sort, nor it is fundamental with this build.
I actually suggest normal berserker gear+ruby orbs as gear.
The build uses EP/DP to mitigate damage not armor itself.

You suggest Knights armor with ruby trinkets in the original post, and you have 300 trait points absolutely wasted in defense.  I consider that a concession to armor at the expense of DPS.  

Second, EP/DP is beyond worthless for PVE.  Please describe the scenarios where this is needed.  Do you facetank subject alpha's aoe?  Do you opt not to dodge the boss at the end of SE1?  Do you just take every agony attack?  To me, EP/DP is a crutch that newer players (or older bad players) use before they know the bosses' tells and learn to dodge properly.  If you still can't ride a bike without training wheels, that doesn't mean training wheels a good choice.

Lastly, you say this build is not for people who want to be carried but that is essentially what you're doing.  In an organized group people bring warriors for DPS, if you're sacrificing DPS for personal survivability you're no different than some clown wearing magic find gear.  You're giving away stats from the group for no gain for the group.

In summary, this build is almost indescribably bad, and I feel compelled to fight the misinformation so that newer players don't mistake you for someone who actually has a clue and waste 3 silver having to retrait out of this mess.

#260 Red_Falcon

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:42 PM

View PostNikephoros, on 02 February 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

I don't need to invent a unique snowflake with a cute name to tell you that your build sucks.  

I can easily imagine the scenarios where that happens... 25 stacks of might and 25 stacks of vulnerability on a light armor boss or some trash mob.  Posting random numbers means nothing.  The fact is your DPS is sub-optimal.  Why would a group want a DPS character who isn't efficient at DPSing?

There are plenty of videos with me playing warrior doing dungeon speed runs available.  To whit, there are no videos of you doing anything useful with this trash pile.  Where is your proof?

Still waiting for YOUR proof that this build would have sub-par DPS. If you claim something, you have the burden of proof.
I played both a 20/20 and this, the difference is abysmal in terms of DPS, but in terms of survivability there is an abyss in between.

Let alone the fact limiting the Warrior to DPS is a noob move. A Warrior doing only DPS and nothing else is a wasted party slot.

View PostNikephoros, on 02 February 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

You suggest Knights armor with ruby trinkets in the original post, and you have 300 trait points absolutely wasted in defense.  I consider that a concession to armor at the expense of DPS.  

Lie. I actually suggested either Knight or Berserk upon personal preference of the user.
I don't have my head up my ass like you to go tell people exactly what to wear, some prefer more defense and some prefer zerk.

View PostNikephoros, on 02 February 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

Second, EP/DP is beyond worthless for PVE.  

And this is final proof you're a complete noob to the Warrior class.

So, are you done embarassing yourself and showing everyone you have no clue or you want to dig yourself down even deeper?
I suggest making a new thread named "Nikephoros self-embarassment megathread" or maybe something like "Guys I can't even understand such a basic class as the Warrior", so you have more space to ridiculize yourself.

#261 Nikephoros

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:08 PM

Well... one of us is embarrassing himself.  That is for sure.

#262 Thaddeuz

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:40 PM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 02 February 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Lie. I actually suggested either Knight or Berserk upon personal preference of the user.
I don't have my head up my ass like you to go tell people exactly what to wear, some prefer more defense and some prefer zerk.

He did suggest knight or Berserk. But this change really modify the build. It can be a really good thing to do.

View PostNikephoros, on 01 February 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

'' your build sucks for dungeons or fractals because you have awful DPS, and stacking armor is irrelevant if you can dodge properly. ''

''So in summary, you build sucks for organized groups in instances, isn't especially useful in random pugs either.  ''

That is just not true. I'm 68 in fractal and i prefer have 1 hybrid like Red Faction's build while everybody else go full damage. More hybrid and you lack dps, less Hybrid and the Fractal become more difficult. If you can't understand the help an Hybrid can bring, you lack experience. BTW I don't say that any group must have a hybrid, i'm just saying that i prefer when my group have one.

#263 Red_Falcon

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:37 PM

View PostThaddeuz, on 04 February 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

He did suggest knight or Berserk. But this change really modify the build. It can be a really good thing to do.



That is just not true. I'm 68 in fractal and i prefer have 1 hybrid like Red Faction's build while everybody else go full damage. More hybrid and you lack dps, less Hybrid and the Fractal become more difficult. If you can't understand the help an Hybrid can bring, you lack experience. BTW I don't say that any group must have a hybrid, i'm just saying that i prefer when my group have one.

Not to mention that this build can be turned in a DPS monster without losing any survivability.
I haven't mentioned it in the build yet but I actually do this:

Basically, pick Empowered trait.
You get +2% bonus damage for each boon you have; in dungeons you usually get 6 to 8 dungeons constantly which means 12% to 18% bonus damage.
That's probably how I'm getting the same dmg as a full zerker while being a monster tank.

But generally yes, in dungeons high DPS+survivability > full glass cannon.
Because a dead Warrior deals zero DPS. ;)

#264 Strife025

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:51 AM

View PostThaddeuz, on 04 February 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

He did suggest knight or Berserk. But this change really modify the build. It can be a really good thing to do.



That is just not true. I'm 68 in fractal and i prefer have 1 hybrid like Red Faction's build while everybody else go full damage. More hybrid and you lack dps, less Hybrid and the Fractal become more difficult. If you can't understand the help an Hybrid can bring, you lack experience. BTW I don't say that any group must have a hybrid, i'm just saying that i prefer when my group have one.

I agree with you having an "anchor", but guardian does it better so usually a knights/zerker hybrid guardian with AH is used as what you call the "Hybrid". So in regular dungeons, you run 1 guard/3 war/1 mesmer for example which allows you to have the anchor with your guardian hitting around 3k armor with a combination of knights/berserker gear which holds agro from full berserker warriors and mesmer, while having superior survivability. In fractals, many times we take 2 guardians, just because I'm sure you know as well how easy certain fractals get with 100% uptime for reflection.

View PostRed_Falcon, on 04 February 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

Not to mention that this build can be turned in a DPS monster without losing any survivability.
I haven't mentioned it in the build yet but I actually do this:

Basically, pick Empowered trait.
You get +2% bonus damage for each boon you have; in dungeons you usually get 6 to 8 dungeons constantly which means 12% to 18% bonus damage.
That's probably how I'm getting the same dmg as a full zerker while being a monster tank.

But generally yes, in dungeons high DPS+survivability > full glass cannon.
Because a dead Warrior deals zero DPS. ;)

I'm not going to critique you're overall build since I don't care really, but this is generally false. Now comparatively to pugs or other classes, you may be considered a "DPS" monster, but compared to full dps warriors in organized groups, you fall way short.

Empowered is 1.5% per boon btw, and yes it is very good, but full dps warriors can take it as well because they don't need 30 points in defense which is useless for PvE and is more of a PvP tree.

With the way % damage stacking works combined with a berserker build, you will not even come close to someone who takes 20 in strength and 25 in arms with GS, you are missing out on 32% base damage which is a monster amount. If you're running Axe/Mace you're missing out on 17% or 27% base damage (depending on your build) and fast hands which allows you to constantly build adrenaline and might stacks like crazy. There is no way 30 in defense is going to "turn into a DPS monster", because naturally the cost of less damage is the defense line.

The difference between a full dps warrior and a hybrid like this is basically the difference between easily and quickly speed clearing dungeon and dps events and taking longer for no reason. The other benefit you get from full dps warriors is that with the way cooldowns work, it is superior to quickly burst down silver group mobs during the first cooldown rotation of interrupts/blinds/reflections which is what full dps wars allow you to do.

Defense line in general is lackluster for PvE. In dungeons with the way bosses and mob cooldowns work, something like 25% stance duration or last stand is near useless except for maybe a very small handful of trash mob pulls. That extra 2.5 seconds of stability or 1 second of endure pain/frenzy is nothing because bosses and mobs generally have slow "charge" attacks that you should be dodging anyways, and once they use their knockdown skill for example, they're not going to use it for another 10+ seconds anyways. Those traits are more for PvP where you can't time dodges as well and where players are bursting multiple skills in a short time. With the way AH, shouts, and Aegis works in PvE, guardian is far superior to anything that the warrior can do defensively, which is why you use it as an anchor so warriors can go full dps.

All the minor traits in defense are near useless. WIth Adrenal health you heal the same amount in 3 seconds that you get from one crit with omnom pies. Simply eating a omnom pie with full zerker gear makes the heal you get from wasting 15 trait points marginal and near worthless. The other two aren't worth talking about since you should be in full or near full zerker anyways.

Granted most people who run organized groups already know this, but the best and most ideal warrior is a full dps one. There is no dead warrior if you know how to dodge and are running with a good anchor, which guardian excels at as I mentioned. Myself and every warrior in my guild goes full glass cannon in a 1 guard/3 war/1 mesmer group, and you can see from my dungeon walkthrough videos how easy it makes every dungeon. So that's my input for warrior builds for people who are trying to use something that is for more organized and speed run type groups.

#265 Red_Falcon

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:12 AM

I read your opinion Strife, but I have disagree with most of it.
Most of the encounters that matter (i.e. high-end fractals) can't be simply DPS'd in seconds, and require extreme amount of care for incoming damage, especially for a full melee char.
Of course in easy content a full glass cannon team can speedclear better, but this build wants to be an Invincible Berserker, not just a Berserker.
Also disagree that defense is worthless; it's actually quite the opposite, it's the only strong defensive line we get.
The 300 armor alone equals to roughly 25% damage reduction. This means a 10k boss hit will hit for 7.5k.
And then you add the fact you get Defy Pain which prevents your death completely and can mitigate up to 100k damage.

Plus this build allows you to swap to any of your weapons of choice without retraiting, even inside dungeons.
It would be naive to claim that GS-only is the most efficient way to face every single encounter in the entire game. It's not true.
Pulling out a Hammer sometimes makes the difference between a wipe where team ragequits, and a wealthy chest.

Not all people like "I hit billions but die in two hits and can only use GS/Axe efficiently" playstyle, we are not a bunch of zombie clones.
Nor it is the most efficient way to play. Many people will actually quit the team if they know everyone is full glass cannon.
Because for all the talk about "dodge is enough for anything! you don't need anything else" I've yet to see any proof; yet, we've all seen proof of the opposite aka people getting melted in two hits and carried over.
And don't tell me they just need to l2p, two dodges simply don't mitigate ten minutes of 10k hits in your face.

In short, my build isn't for gimmick content that you can plow through in full glass setup while watching animes, it's for the serious stuff.
In the forums people claim they farm Fractals 824 naked and single-handedly, but the game shows the very different reality.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 05 February 2013 - 04:15 AM.


#266 Lucav

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 05:29 AM

I think calling the build invincible is a little amusing. It seems to me like guardians have the tanky and support dungeon builds on lockdown, and speccing a warrior to do it is 1) not taking advantage of the strengths of the warrior and 2) not having near the party support of a properly specced guardian. I can see this spec being decent in pvp or wvw, aside from that, no.

#267 Strife025

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:33 AM

Your viewpoint is skewed from running pugs.

I have speed walkthroughs for every single dungeon path in the game using dps warriors, including Lupicus melee solo, as seen on my page:
https://www.youtube.com/strife025

So don't give me bs about gimmick content and non-serious stuff.

I am in a "hardcore" PvE guild, meaning everyone is 30+ fotm, DM, and has at least one guardian/warrior/mesmer which our are requirements to get in. I am telling you, no one who is actually good at PvE runs anything but dps warriors. Defense is a crutch for groups who have no organization or for people who don't know the encounters, there is nothing in the current named dungeons that requires more survivability from a warrior then dps because that's what the guardian anchor and combined utility from the group are for.

If you actually need armor, you are wasting it by using 30 trait points. The traits themselves are still worthless compared to what you can get. Taking more Knights armor and getting the 32% increase in base damage will give you wayyyy more dps for instance then staying berserker and using 30 in defense.

Now I understand you want to play a different build and not be a clone, which is fine. But don't act like it's the same as a dps warrior or that you need defense traits and hammer and a bunch of fluff to actually be successful.

As someone who runs 40+ fractals and in a guild with people that made it to 80 before this patch, dps warriors are viable at all levels. When you get to higher fractal levels the 300 defense means nothing, killing fast and using proper utility skills and positioning is way more valuable then stacking survivability. For instance, LoSing like in Ascalon and Dredge is the simplest things that PuGs don't do and is the easiest way to burst down mobs before they have a chance to hit you. You'd be surprised how fast stuff dies even at fotm 50 when you have the proper classes.

I'm not theory crafting or trying to show some bs calculations, I'm saying, as someone who has run thousands of dungeons and fractals in organized groups, and as someone who makes speed run guides as proof, that is the way it is at "high" levels.

#268 Sword Hammer Axe

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:00 AM

View PostStrife025, on 05 February 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

Your viewpoint is skewed from running pugs.

Hi, don't know in depth what you're discussing, but I'd like to point out that this game is much more about how you play than what you play, meaning that you can run around dead herring and slap enemies in the face with it and still be succesful if you're focused and quick witted. Therefore, if you run around with people you know and are pretty experienced in playing with, you'll most definitely be successful unless the god of lag decides to smite you. But running with a pug gives you players you have no experience with and almost definitely don't have the same strategies that you do in the same instance, so you'd have to make new strategies or Leroy Jenkins the f*** out of it. My point: This is when builds matter. When you're playing with the same people you have a certain amount of security in the form of experience, while the dangers of pugging is where you need a build that can handle certain situations or perhaps even any. At least that's my opinion of it :)

#269 lmaonade

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:58 AM

ah how the first page of this thread brings back memories, when a majority of the warrior players thought shout healers were the end of all ends.

Edit:
to the above argument about fractals and whatnot, I would actually avoid taking warriors at all in higher level fractals, their ranged options suck and I always get stuck with the grawl fractal :(

Edited by lmaonade, 05 February 2013 - 10:00 AM.


#270 Thaddeuz

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:02 PM

View PostStrife025, on 05 February 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

I agree with you having an "anchor", but guardian does it better so usually a knights/zerker hybrid guardian with AH is used as what you call the "Hybrid". So in regular dungeons, you run 1 guard/3 war/1 mesmer for example which allows you to have the anchor with your guardian hitting around 3k armor with a combination of knights/berserker gear which holds agro from full berserker warriors and mesmer, while having superior survivability. In fractals, many times we take 2 guardians, just because I'm sure you know as well how easy certain fractals get with 100% uptime for reflection.

Yup. In my fractal group we have 2 guardian. I'm the ''anchor'' or ''hybrid'', but my friend is a DPS Guardian.

View PostRed_Falcon, on 05 February 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

Most of the encounters that matter (i.e. high-end fractals) can't be simply DPS'd in seconds, and require extreme amount of care for incoming damage, especially for a full melee char.

I understand your point of view. But you either have a really different experience from high fractals (40+) or you just never really played at these level. I'm the ''anchor'' with my guardian (3k armor) and I still get 1 shot down by a lot of attack, that i need to evade. My 3K armor is more to get agro that to really get me more surviability. Ya it help in some situation, but i'm push at the limit always so i can allow the rest of my group to do their job. Even with high surviability stats like toughness, you gonna get smash like a little girls and feel like a glass canon anyway. That is why you keep only one ''anchor''. Ya, with 4 glass canon you won't gonna kill everything in 2 sec, its gonna take time. But if it take 1min, i'm still alive so the rest of the group is still alive. If it take 2min, i'm dead and the rest of the team could follow really quickly. And that is just not counting the DPS bottleneck in fractal. If you don't have enough dps, you WON'T gonna be able to pass the volcanoe fractal. I don't care that only 2 people stay alive after the boss bubble exploded and the grubs are down. After that its a piece of cake to kite the boss while the other one rez with spy kit. You just need to kill this bubble and these grubs in seconds or you won't gonna make it. You can all still be alive, the boss will also be full hp and you never gonna be able to finish it.

View PostRed_Falcon, on 05 February 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

Also disagree that defense is worthless; it's actually quite the opposite, it's the only strong defensive line we get.

I'm not 100% sure, but i think that strife was referring to the trait line of Defense. There is some really good major trait option in this line, but its mainly PvP oriented. If you want the toughness, you better put your point at another place to get more powerful major trait for PvE and then take Knight gear to get the toughness you need.

View Postlmaonade, on 05 February 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

to the above argument about fractals and whatnot, I would actually avoid taking warriors at all in higher level fractals, their ranged options suck and I always get stuck with the grawl fractal :(

I'm not a fan of Warrior, but their help is always welcome in high fractal. If you have 2 guardian in your group, they spawn their Shield and you fight from inside, taking a little amount of damage in the process. And if you have a sylvary or a ranger, you have a entrangle, allowing you to immobilize the boss (the entrangle must be protected by a guardian shield), while the guardian BB part of the grubs inside so everyone dps them in melee. Of course, you need a team and practice this tactic several time before being able to do it properly, but it make the volcanoe fractal so much easier. Also, the physical utility skill of the warrior are really great when you need to CC those grawl before they pitch the human in the lava.


View PostRed_Falcon, on 05 February 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

In short, my build isn't for gimmick content that you can plow through in full glass setup while watching animes, it's for the serious stuff.
In the forums people claim they farm Fractals 824 naked and single-handedly, but the game shows the very different reality.

I think overall, your build is good for dungeon and fractal 1 to 29. You got defense and a good amount of DPS. You are not noob glass canon that die every 2 second, and you are not a tank that nobody need and do a ridiculous amount of DPS. In fact, i will probably use something similar for my own Warrior (not as much point in Defense trait line as you, but still similar). But, i would not want someone with your build in my 40+ fractal group and i would not use my warrior for high level fractal. I explained the reason a little bit higher
1) You gonna feel glass canon anyway
2) You gonna broke the ''anchor'' job or keeping the agro as much as he can
3) You gonna make the normal content, last longer
4) You gonna make your group fail at some DPS choke point.

But fractal 40+ and the rest of GW2 PvE content can't compare. Your build is good in my opinion, but not for 40+ fractal, and you can't say that you got high dps and good defense. You can't have everything man. If you get more defense, you lose some offense. I grant that your build allow you to gain a good amount of defense while losing not that much offensive, but you still lose some.




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