Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help
* * * * * 2 votes

Greatsword/Staff DPS + Utility Mesmer


  • Please log in to reply
45 replies to this topic

#1 axjv

axjv

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 26 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:40 PM

Okay, so earlier I was skeptical of the usefulness of the Greatsword, so I have tried making a build revolving entirely around the strengths of this weapon:

Good damage at range.
Multi-hit autoattack.
Mirror Blade bounce.
Good rate of clone production.
Clones spawn near target.

Turns out I was wrong, Greatsword is amazing on the Mesmer.

Build themes:

Support through Boons on yourself + allies (with increased duration)
Control through Conditions on enemies (with increased duration)
High damage output from both yourself and phantasms
High survivability through mobility and snares.
High rate of clone production, augmenting survivability and damage potential.

Playstyle:

Use your shatters situationally, create clones whenever you can, stay as far away from the enemy as possible. Kiting is key. When the enemy closes on you, either use Illusionary Wave, or swap to Staff and Chaos Storm/Phase Retreat. Play aggressively, but smart.

Build Link:
http://www.guildhead...kiI707kiQ707kiI

Weapons:
Greatsword/Staff

Traits:

20 Domination:
Minors:
- Illusion of Vulnerability - Nice to have, not great but synergizes with Illusionary Wave (GS5).
- Dazzling - Another 'meh' trait. I spec 20 into Domination mainly for the majors, the Power boost, and the Condition Duration.

Majors:
- Crippling Dissipation - One of the strongest traits a Mesmer can get. Amazing defensive trait. Synergizes with Deceptive Evasion, Greatsword clones (the clones spawn near the enemy, allowing you to get more benefit from the clone death), Greatsword Training (more clones) and the 20% Condition duration increase from Domination. Greatsword also has a respectable rate of clone production.
- Greatsword Training - Improves rate of clone production, more knockbacks, more damage. Synergizes with Crippling Dissipation, Debilitating Dissipation (more clones = more explosions), and to some extent Illusion of Vulnerability.


20 Dueling
Minors:
- Critical Infusion - Very useful, more dodge rolls is amazing. Multiple hits on Greatsword autoattack along with Mirror Blade means you will almost always have vigor. Synergizes with Spatial Surge, Mirror Blade.
- Sharper Images - Great for a high-precision Greatsword build. Clone attacks will have 3 chances to proc. Synergizes with Spatial Surge.

Majors:
- Phantasmal Fury - Another great trait for Power/Precision builds. Synergizes with Sharper Images.
- Deceptive Evasion - One of my favorite traits in the game. Synergizes with Critical Infusion, Debilitating Dissipation, Crippling Dissipation.


10 Chaos
Minors:
- Metaphysical Rejuvenation - Very useful, is basically around +1300 HP in every battle if you regenerate the full 10 seconds. Synergizes with the 10% increased Boon duration from Chaos.

Majors:
- Debilitating Dissipation - Awesome offensive and defensive trait. Gives Weakness, 3 stacks of Bleed, or Vulnerability on clone death. Synergizes with Deceptive Evasion, the Greatsword clone skills, Greatsword Training (more clones) and the 20% increased Condition duration from Domination.


20 Illusions
Minors:
- Illusionists Celerity - Amazing trait that nearly every Mesmer should pick up. Fits with the main themes of the build. Synergizes with Crippling Dissipation and Debilitating Dissipation.
- Illusionary Retribution - Nice trait to have, when you decide to use your shatters. Not amazing, but you get it on the way to Illusionary Elasticity.

Majors:
- Compounding Power - You will almost always have 3 clones up, the damage increase is great. Synergizes with Deceptive Evasion, the ability of the Greatsword to generate many clones, and Greatsword Training (even more clones).
- Illusionary Elasticity - Absolutely amazing trait, especially when you are using both the Greatsword and the Staff. A must have. Synergizes with Mirror Blade and Winds of Chaos.


Utilities/Elite:

Mainly I will use Decoy, Blink, and Null Field. Decoy is great for breaking aggro or just making an extra clone. Blink gives you mobility, which helps a lot in tougher battles. Null Field is one of the strongest Condition removers in the game, AND it strips Boons.

Situationally I will put in Signet of Illusions, Mirror Images, Feedback, Portal, Veil, or Illusion of Life.

As for Elites, I will mainly use Time Warp, occasionally swapping it out for Mass Invisibility for certain dungeon puzzles.

Equipment:

Note: You don't have to use this exact gear, but the focus should be on stacking Power/Precision/Critical Damage, and possibly a bit of Toughness/Vitality for some survivability.

Armor
Full Knight's Armor, slotted with Beryl Orbs. Increases Power, Precision, and Critical Damage, while also making you slightly beefier.

Jewelry
Full Berserker's Jewelry.

Weapons
Berserker's Greatsword slotted with Superior Rune of Ice. Alternatively, a Superior Rune of Fire or Superior Rune of Strength can provide you with a bit of extra damage.

Berserker's Staff slotted with Superior Rune of Perception.

Y u no stack Condition Damage with so many Condition traits?!
The main Conditions I want to take advantage of are Weakness, Vulnerability, and Cripple. Malice does nothing for these, as they only get better with increased duration (which I have).

Questions, comments, concerns?

Edited by axjv, 04 October 2012 - 10:04 PM.


#2 Trickstick

Trickstick

    Pale Tree Seedling

  • New Members
  • 10 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 03:38 AM

Looks good. I have been wanting to try out a power based build, after getting annoyed at the 25 condition limit and the "object" enemies that can't take condition damage. Glass cannon seems viable for mesmer, and it fits to make the character as fragile as the illusions.

I am considering making a few changes for my own use though, mainly in rune/sigil selection. A set of superior centaur runes would add a swiftness ability for ease of navigation, which I think would help out as I am used to the focus and its speed buff. As for sigils, I am not a huge fan of the stat stacking ones. I was thinking the greatsword could use a sigil of ice, for the target control it would give.

Looking forward to having a play around with this.

#3 dragonphlu

dragonphlu

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 274 posts
  • Location:Florida
  • Profession:Mesmer
  • Server:Tarnished Coast

Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:00 AM

Looks pretty good! Your playstyle is similar to mine, except I use more of a hybrid power/precision/condition build (with similar trait setup). Since you also have Sharper Images, bleeding is also another condition you have that works with Malice (since you got 20 points into Illusions).

I keep having a tough decision on whether 10 points in Chaos or Inspiration or just have 10 Domination points. Your reasons for Chaos is good. I agree that the reasons you go 20 Domination points are the major traits/extra power+condition duration since the minor ones seem somewhat okay (unless you bring more interrupts like Signet of Domination).

Have you tried Vigorous Revelation (major Inspiration)? It does grant you vigor in addition to allies and the vigor apply to you is instant and regardless of distance (just tested this on practice dummies in Lion's Arch). I know Critical Infusion grants vigor when crit, but nothing wrong with having a somewhat "perma" vigor, right? I also figured that since with Null Field, maybe Glamour Mastery or Persisting Images would also work. I'm not suggesting to go Inspiration instead of Chaos, but I'm just wondering if it's better in Chaos or Inspiration. Also, I wonder if Illusionary Membrane would also be useful since it synergizes with Metaphysical Rejuvenation.

#4 axjv

axjv

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 26 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 01:25 PM

View PostTrickstick, on 02 October 2012 - 03:38 AM, said:

Looks good. I have been wanting to try out a power based build, after getting annoyed at the 25 condition limit and the "object" enemies that can't take condition damage. Glass cannon seems viable for mesmer, and it fits to make the character as fragile as the illusions.

I am considering making a few changes for my own use though, mainly in rune/sigil selection. A set of superior centaur runes would add a swiftness ability for ease of navigation, which I think would help out as I am used to the focus and its speed buff. As for sigils, I am not a huge fan of the stat stacking ones. I was thinking the greatsword could use a sigil of ice, for the target control it would give.

Looking forward to having a play around with this.

The huge cost of many of the runes on the Trading Post has led me to prefer using the orbs in my armor. I do miss the speed buff from the Focus, though. Swapping around the Sigils for more utility is actually a really good idea, I'll definitely look into that.

View Postdragonphlu, on 02 October 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

Looks pretty good! Your playstyle is similar to mine, except I use more of a hybrid power/precision/condition build (with similar trait setup). Since you also have Sharper Images, bleeding is also another condition you have that works with Malice (since you got 20 points into Illusions).

I keep having a tough decision on whether 10 points in Chaos or Inspiration or just have 10 Domination points. Your reasons for Chaos is good. I agree that the reasons you go 20 Domination points are the major traits/extra power+condition duration since the minor ones seem somewhat okay (unless you bring more interrupts like Signet of Domination).

Have you tried Vigorous Revelation (major Inspiration)? It does grant you vigor in addition to allies and the vigor apply to you is instant and regardless of distance (just tested this on practice dummies in Lion's Arch). I know Critical Infusion grants vigor when crit, but nothing wrong with having a somewhat "perma" vigor, right? I also figured that since with Null Field, maybe Glamour Mastery or Persisting Images would also work. I'm not suggesting to go Inspiration instead of Chaos, but I'm just wondering if it's better in Chaos or Inspiration. Also, I wonder if Illusionary Membrane would also be useful since it synergizes with Metaphysical Rejuvenation.

I'm a huge fan of Vigorous Revelation, but I tend to pick it up only when I have Illusionary Persona as well. This guarantees a 4s vigor whenever you need one.I used to use it with my Staff + Sword/Focus build, but since the GS hits multiple times, it is a lot easier to keep up vigor using only Critical Infusion.

The main problem I ran into was that I didn't have enough trait points for all of the things I wanted to put in. There are lots of other viable options, but this setup suited me best. The only places I would be comfortable reallocating trait points are the last 10 points in Domination or the 10 points in Chaos.

#5 dragonphlu

dragonphlu

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 274 posts
  • Location:Florida
  • Profession:Mesmer
  • Server:Tarnished Coast

Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:22 PM

View Postaxjv, on 02 October 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

I'm a huge fan of Vigorous Revelation, but I tend to pick it up only when I have Illusionary Persona as well. This guarantees a 4s vigor whenever you need one.I used to use it with my Staff + Sword/Focus build, but since the GS hits multiple times, it is a lot easier to keep up vigor using only Critical Infusion.

The main problem I ran into was that I didn't have enough trait points for all of the things I wanted to put in. There are lots of other viable options, but this setup suited me best. The only places I would be comfortable reallocating trait points are the last 10 points in Domination or the 10 points in Chaos.

I just realize that you're the one who posted that Evasive Mesmer thread! I should have looked more closely at your name. >.<

What's funny is that I was staff/gs and then I recently try staff/sword+focus for a bit. My issue with the latter is that I tend to not shatter often and sometimes mobs kill my illusions too quickly, thus why I went staff/gs. I gave your sword/focus build (with some variants) a try and it is fun, but my problem is not shattering often and I'm more of a mid-range fighter than long or melee ranges. Even though I may not get the most damage from Spatial Surge, at mid-range, I can also get might from Mirror Blade while still dealing okay Spatial Surge damage. I may end up going back to staff/gs as my main weapon sets since I'm use to them.

Anyways, I do see your point about why not picking Vigorous Revelation for this setup and I do agree. When I use staff/gs, I had plenty of crits (~33%) to gain vigor. I actually was thinking of maybe a 10/20/20/0/20 setup with Chaotic Dampening or Master of Manipulation in addition to Debilitating Dissipation.

Edited by dragonphlu, 02 October 2012 - 02:25 PM.


#6 RyuujinZERO

RyuujinZERO

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 290 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:05 PM

Interesting, I hadn't really weighed up the value of  the clone-death skills compared to using clones purely as shatter fodder, I'll experiment with this a bit.

The only thing that stands out as possibly being improvable is Illusory Elasticity and it's precursor minor in the illusion tree. How valuable is that one extra bounce in the grand scheme? - because the minor before it causes confusion on shatter, but as you say yourself this isn't a build focused on shattering, so much as sacrificial clones to create control conditions. In which case that minor will see very little use so you're paying 10 points for elasticity; is it worth that much?

Personally, and this is just me mind you, i prefer to take Glamour Mastery in inspiration when running with a party. In dungeons especially the amount of stuff that feedback reflects is staggering (For example those hellish golems during the Kudu fight in SE when they fire volleys of burning/poison darts), so having them available more frequently is a huge boon. Alternatively, 5 more points in duelling would add confusion to your on-death soup when a clone is killed

#7 axjv

axjv

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 26 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:06 PM

View PostRyuujinZERO, on 02 October 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

Interesting, I hadn't really weighed up the value of  the clone-death skills compared to using clones purely as shatter fodder, I'll experiment with this a bit.

The only thing that stands out as possibly being improvable is Illusory Elasticity and it's precursor minor in the illusion tree. How valuable is that one extra bounce in the grand scheme? - because the minor before it causes confusion on shatter, but as you say yourself this isn't a build focused on shattering, so much as sacrificial clones to create control conditions. In which case that minor will see very little use so you're paying 10 points for elasticity; is it worth that much?

Personally, and this is just me mind you, i prefer to take Glamour Mastery in inspiration when running with a party. In dungeons especially the amount of stuff that feedback reflects is staggering (For example those hellish golems during the Kudu fight in SE when they fire volleys of burning/poison darts), so having them available more frequently is a huge boon. Alternatively, 5 more points in duelling would add confusion to your on-death soup when a clone is killed

I have never used the Glamour Mastery trait, though I see where it would be very beneficial in dungeon play. I picked up Illusionary Elasticity because the way the traits are set up perfectly synergizes with the effect. I am wielding both the Staff and the Greatsword, the only 2 weapons available to the Mesmer with bouncing skills. Winds of Chaos has no cooldown, and Mirror Blade's is reduced by 36% from both Illusionist's Celerity and Greatsword Training. Illusionary Elasticity is already very powerful, but with cooldown reductions and increased Condition/Boon Duration, it gets even better. Every possible trait that could make Elasticity stronger than it already is is picked up. Granted, the minor trait before Elasticity is lackluster, but the Inspiration minor doesn't even work (to my knowledge) as of right now.

As for Confusing Combatants, I find Confusion to be relatively useless (compared to other damaging conditions) in PvE, and with little to no Condition Damage, I am hesitant to pick it up.

If I were to pick up Glamour Mastery, I would feel most comfortable moving points from either Chaos or Domination. Another possible option for dungeons with fewer ranged mobs would be Mender's Purity. I'm a bit OCD when it comes to trait spreads, as I am used to the typical 3 attribute spread prevalent in GW1 builds. Ideally I would build a 30/20/20 or 30/30/10 trait split, but the way the Mesmer traits are set up doesn't really allow for that. This might make no sense, but specializing in only a few trees seems stronger to me than spreading out over all of them.

In any case, I will be trying out all of your suggestions and making changes as I playtest the build some more. Your feedback is appreciated.

Edited by axjv, 02 October 2012 - 06:23 PM.


#8 jktstance

jktstance

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 40 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:22 PM

View Postaxjv, on 02 October 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

I am wielding both the Staff and the Greatsword, the only 2 weapons available to the Mesmer with bouncing skills.

Off-hand pistol's 5 skill, Magic Bullet, is also a bouncing attack, with some very nice conditions.  First target is stunned, second is dazed, third is blinded, and with Illusionary Elasticity, a fourth target is confused.

#9 Rufgar_Bru

Rufgar_Bru

    Pale Tree Seedling

  • New Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:40 PM

This is the same sort of play style im using to level up my Mesmer. I really love the way GS+Staff work together. I was a bit worried about all the comments on how "weak" Mesmers are in PVE pre 40. I've played all the classes to 25+ and my Mesmer was the quickest one for me to get 25 so far and its my first non Norn character as I wanted to try something new race wise.

I was already sort of going a similar route to how your layout ends up in the Original post. If you were to level playing this style and going towards this type of build, how would you prioritize your traits as you go?

Mostly I've been going to Power/Precision route on gear and thats worked well. As I look at your final build the only thing Id wish for would be the Staff trait in Chaos, but its really hard to find a spot to loose 10 from for that. It seems like it may not be that great a trade off.

Typically if im doing a big boss fight, I'd toss a Mirror blade and Berserker, then swap to staff and do the Storm/retreat/warlock combo, then just slowly pump out 2 more warlocks (and keep 3 warlocks up) as they tend to be the best DPS in those big scale fights with all the conditions that stack up. Is that the best use of DPS if im not really in danger of being attacked?

#10 Aizea

Aizea

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 230 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:25 PM

I notice you do not take Chaotic Dampening. I assume this is so you can grab Elasticity or is there another reason?

#11 Pip

Pip

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 346 posts
  • Guild Tag:[GROG]
  • Server:Yak’s Bend

Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:51 PM

I've played Greatsword / Sword+Pistol for a long time, but when I started gearing up for dungeons decided to go for a Staff (Primary) / Greatsword (Secondary) build.

I wanted to do a bit more of a condition based spec, so I'm focusing on Precision and Condition damage.  However I should still walk away with a fair amount of Power.  Basically, I'm mix and matching Rabid (Karma Vendor version), Carrion, and Rampager pieces.  I felt this really gave me a good mix of the three, while still giving me some Vit and Toughness to round it out.

I worry a bit, since everyone lately seems to be poo-pooing Staff main, but I like the balance between damage and support.  We already have some deep support people in our typical group, so I'm not going full bore support.  But from what I can tell, the condition damage from clone crits coupled with Warlock spam should return some pretty solid dps, while still giving some Boons to the group too.  Especially when you throw in Chaos Storm.

In general I feel a lot of people don't think Staff and GS have any synergy, due to one being percieved as a power weapon and the other Condition, but they surprisingly mix well.

I think your trait loudout looks great for a GS primary.  I think getting the 20% reduction for BOTH weapons is overkill, you generally are going to lean heavier on one weapon, so I like getting Elasticity over the Staff cd reducer.  That 20% recharge isn't helping you much when that weapon isn't your active one!

#12 RyuujinZERO

RyuujinZERO

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 290 posts

Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:29 AM

I've been using this (Well, a very closely related variant) this evening and I'm quite impressed :o

Didn't find myself using the staff much but that's mostly down to the fact I've never really got on with it and need to develop some strategies for staff, whereas greatsword's been my weapon of choice since forever and have a great deal of finesse with it by this stage.

But being able to spread and virtually maintain debilitating conditions to large groups is awesome.

Edited by RyuujinZERO, 03 October 2012 - 12:29 AM.


#13 axjv

axjv

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 26 posts

Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:02 PM

View PostPip, on 02 October 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

I've played Greatsword / Sword+Pistol for a long time, but when I started gearing up for dungeons decided to go for a Staff (Primary) / Greatsword (Secondary) build.

I wanted to do a bit more of a condition based spec, so I'm focusing on Precision and Condition damage.  However I should still walk away with a fair amount of Power.  Basically, I'm mix and matching Rabid (Karma Vendor version), Carrion, and Rampager pieces.  I felt this really gave me a good mix of the three, while still giving me some Vit and Toughness to round it out.

I worry a bit, since everyone lately seems to be poo-pooing Staff main, but I like the balance between damage and support.  We already have some deep support people in our typical group, so I'm not going full bore support.  But from what I can tell, the condition damage from clone crits coupled with Warlock spam should return some pretty solid dps, while still giving some Boons to the group too.  Especially when you throw in Chaos Storm.

In general I feel a lot of people don't think Staff and GS have any synergy, due to one being percieved as a power weapon and the other Condition, but they surprisingly mix well.

I think your trait loudout looks great for a GS primary.  I think getting the 20% reduction for BOTH weapons is overkill, you generally are going to lean heavier on one weapon, so I like getting Elasticity over the Staff cd reducer.  That 20% recharge isn't helping you much when that weapon isn't your active one!

I only traited for GS reduction :P

Anyway, Staff + GS is a nice combination because one set is defensive while the other offensive. This allows you to adapt to nearly any situation fluidly, and also keeps you at range. The Staff is a medium-range weapon that can easily create distance between you and the enemy while granting various forms of damage mitigation, while the GS is a long-range weapon that can capitalize off of the distance between you and your foes. In addition, both benefit from Elasticity, and the Staff's Warlock benefits off of the Greatsword's ability to apply Vulnerability, Cripple, and Bleed.

View PostRyuujinZERO, on 03 October 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

I've been using this (Well, a very closely related variant) this evening and I'm quite impressed :o

Didn't find myself using the staff much but that's mostly down to the fact I've never really got on with it and need to develop some strategies for staff, whereas greatsword's been my weapon of choice since forever and have a great deal of finesse with it by this stage.

But being able to spread and virtually maintain debilitating conditions to large groups is awesome.

Using the Staff is pretty simple, I mainly use it defensively but I used it as my main weapon for most of the leveling process. You use Phase Retreat whenever you can, usually to get away from enemies. Drop as many Warlocks as you can. Chaos Storm is more of a defensive tool than an offensive one; drop it on yourself + your clones for some nice buffs, and if you can catch some mobs in it as well that's a bonus. The main combo with the Staff is dropping Chaos Storm, waiting until the duration is almost up, and then popping Phase Retreat. This gives you a very long period of damage mitigation, and you can follow up with Chaos Armor for even more uptime on damage reduction.

#14 blindmouse

blindmouse

    Pale Tree Seedling

  • New Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:34 PM

Yes finally I managed to create an account to ask some questions.

Hi axjv and thanks for your guides on mesmer. My main is a thief but I'm leveling my mesmer at the moment and would like to focus a lot on dungeons and sometimes WvW like my thief. May I ask, for dungeons do you prefer your evasive mesmer build or this GS/staff utility build? Would this build be viable for WvW too or would you make some significant changes for that?

How do you deal with the slow move speed of GS/Staff compared to the permanent swiftness of the evasive mesmer build? Is that an issue for you? Also, I see that you did not choose glamour mastery, is that alright for dungeons?

#15 entropy3

entropy3

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 85 posts

Posted 03 October 2012 - 08:38 PM

This is why I love the mesmer, so much build diversity! I run with GS/Staff as well, but my build is way more support oriented trait wise. I run 0/20/20/25/5 and pick up:

- glamour based majors
- clone on dodge
- fury for phantasms
- staff CD
- manipulations CD

This way I can swap out manipulations and glamours based on the fight and be more effective with either. Due to my defensive based trait allocation I take more offensive armor, running rampagers for the extra condition dmg, knights weapons stats from dungeon vendors, and power/crit dmg/vit trinkets. My survivability is way higher than other mesmer builds I've tried while still packing a punch!

Edit: I wanted to get Elasticity, but to do so I would have to take 15 out of chaos or inspiration, both of which give nice support, more defensive stats and result in about an equal damage increase.

Edited by entropy3, 03 October 2012 - 08:45 PM.


#16 axjv

axjv

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 26 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:16 AM

View Postblindmouse, on 03 October 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

Yes finally I managed to create an account to ask some questions.

Hi axjv and thanks for your guides on mesmer. My main is a thief but I'm leveling my mesmer at the moment and would like to focus a lot on dungeons and sometimes WvW like my thief. May I ask, for dungeons do you prefer your evasive mesmer build or this GS/staff utility build? Would this build be viable for WvW too or would you make some significant changes for that?

How do you deal with the slow move speed of GS/Staff compared to the permanent swiftness of the evasive mesmer build? Is that an issue for you? Also, I see that you did not choose glamour mastery, is that alright for dungeons?

It all depends on what role you'd like to play in your party. I would go Staff + Sword/Focus if you're looking to play more of a support/utility role with decent damage output. Sitting on your Staff set for the majority of the time naturally means you will be playing more defensively, and Temporal Curtain/Phantasmal Warden are excellent skills that are capable of controlling the battlefield.

On the other hand, if I wanted to be offensive and possibly initiate for the team, I would go Greatsword + Staff. The damage output of the Greatsword is very respectable, and drawing aggro with clones will help keep the heat off of your team. I would always have a Staff on hand, as it is highly useful in many situations, both PvE and PvP.

I generally don't mind losing the Swiftness buff, as I always keep a Sword, a Focus, a Pistol, and a Torch in my inventory. In battle, I don't really need the Swiftness as with Phase Retreat + Blink I am already highly mobile. If I am going to be exploring, I'll equip my Focus, throw up the speed buff, and re-equip my Greatsword. The ability to pull mobs is what I miss most about Temporal Curtain, as it has uses both offensively and defensively. You can also use a well-placed Temporal Curtain in a similar manner to the Thief's Scorpion Wire.

As for WvW, a Focus is one of the most powerful tools you can use against a zerg. If you are defending a keep, I would put on Sword/Focus along with a Greatsword, as the damage you can do from a distance is quite significant. For roaming and capturing points, I prefer Greatsword + Staff. As I said earlier, I always keep several sets of weapons on hand so I can adapt to whatever the situation calls for.

Regarding dungeon play, Glamour Mastery is a very useful trait to have. However, keep in mind that Vengeful Images and Phantasmal Fury currently do not work together due to a bug. Subsequently, if you spec 10 into Inspiration, you must either lose Phantasmal Fury, or accept the fact that your minor Inspiration trait will not have an effect. If this bug were fixed, I'd say it would be a toss-up. The weakness/vulnerability from Debilitating Dissipation can be very useful in all situations, while the 20% reduced cooldowns on Glamour skills is extremely powerful in certain situations (lots of conditions, ranged mobs) but relatively useless in others.

Edited by axjv, 04 October 2012 - 12:16 AM.


#17 blindmouse

blindmouse

    Pale Tree Seedling

  • New Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:16 AM

View Postaxjv, on 04 October 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

It all depends on what role you'd like to play in your party. I would go Staff + Sword/Focus if you're looking to play more of a support/utility role with decent damage output. Sitting on your Staff set for the majority of the time naturally means you will be playing more defensively, and Temporal Curtain/Phantasmal Warden are excellent skills that are capable of controlling the battlefield.

On the other hand, if I wanted to be offensive and possibly initiate for the team, I would go Greatsword + Staff. The damage output of the Greatsword is very respectable, and drawing aggro with clones will help keep the heat off of your team. I would always have a Staff on hand, as it is highly useful in many situations, both PvE and PvP.

I generally don't mind losing the Swiftness buff, as I always keep a Sword, a Focus, a Pistol, and a Torch in my inventory. In battle, I don't really need the Swiftness as with Phase Retreat + Blink I am already highly mobile. If I am going to be exploring, I'll equip my Focus, throw up the speed buff, and re-equip my Greatsword. The ability to pull mobs is what I miss most about Temporal Curtain, as it has uses both offensively and defensively. You can also use a well-placed Temporal Curtain in a similar manner to the Thief's Scorpion Wire.

As for WvW, a Focus is one of the most powerful tools you can use against a zerg. If you are defending a keep, I would put on Sword/Focus along with a Greatsword, as the damage you can do from a distance is quite significant. For roaming and capturing points, I prefer Greatsword + Staff. As I said earlier, I always keep several sets of weapons on hand so I can adapt to whatever the situation calls for.

Regarding dungeon play, Glamour Mastery is a very useful trait to have. However, keep in mind that Vengeful Images and Phantasmal Fury currently do not work together due to a bug. Subsequently, if you spec 10 into Inspiration, you must either lose Phantasmal Fury, or accept the fact that your minor Inspiration trait will not have an effect. If this bug were fixed, I'd say it would be a toss-up. The weakness/vulnerability from Debilitating Dissipation can be very useful in all situations, while the 20% reduced cooldowns on Glamour skills is extremely powerful in certain situations (lots of conditions, ranged mobs) but relatively useless in others.

Thanks for your detailed response. So if I were to use Sword/Focus and Staff, should I trait like your evasive mesmer build or put those 10 points of Domination into Inspiration for the reflect on focus skills for dungeon play? How about WvW?

#18 JLignum

JLignum

    Pale Tree Seedling

  • New Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:31 PM

Great thread, been looking for some advice on it. Also Axvj, you don't mind posting a link to your build, thank you for the description, but I would like to compare some builds and a link would be great. Again, ty all.

#19 Torden

Torden

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • Curse Premium
  • 83 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:49 PM

axjv, this is a great thread. For future readers, could you edit the OP to include Deceptive Evasion as your second Major Dueling trait? Based on the description for your other choices, I'm confident that's what you meant and just edited it out by mistake.

#20 axjv

axjv

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 26 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:54 PM

View Postblindmouse, on 04 October 2012 - 02:16 AM, said:

Thanks for your detailed response. So if I were to use Sword/Focus and Staff, should I trait like your evasive mesmer build or put those 10 points of Domination into Inspiration for the reflect on focus skills for dungeon play? How about WvW?

It depends on what your team needs. Traiting into Domination and taking Mental Torment can give you a nice boost in damage. Swapping Mental Torment out of Crippling Dissipation will have a mix of both offensive power and defensive utility. Putting more points into Inspiration in order to buff up your Warden will help your team survive longer in certain situations.

For WvW, I would definitely try and pick up Warden's Feedback. The amount of damage the Warden can deal is borderline ridiculous when facing an oncoming zerg.

View PostJLignum, on 04 October 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

Great thread, been looking for some advice on it. Also Axvj, you don't mind posting a link to your build, thank you for the description, but I would like to compare some builds and a link would be great. Again, ty all.

Yep, gw2skills.net is apparently down, so I ended up using guildhead.

View PostTorden, on 04 October 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

axjv, this is a great thread. For future readers, could you edit the OP to include Deceptive Evasion as your second Major Dueling trait? Based on the description for your other choices, I'm confident that's what you meant and just edited it out by mistake.

Thanks for the correction. I've been running with Deception Evasion for so long that sometimes I forget I have it. :P

#21 deitiesforce

deitiesforce

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 416 posts
  • Guild Tag:[DA]
  • Server:Stormbluff Isle

Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:23 AM

Do you mean sigil for the weapons?

#22 XgreatArtist

XgreatArtist

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1496 posts
  • Location:In Your Bedroom
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:33 AM

The upgrades for the knights armor are jewels? Is it possible to use superior runes too? I think this build lack vitality and i plan to wvw as well. Is it possible to change the jewels to runes that add vitality?

#23 Drakernez

Drakernez

    Pale Tree Seedling

  • New Members
  • 3 posts
  • Server:Henge of Denravi

Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:03 AM

I've been running a power/precision/crit% build with gs/staff myself since i reached 80. Glad to see people are realising the potential for mesmer dps.

OP totally covered the essense of GS/Staff build, but i would like to add on some of my personal thoughts.

My current build: 20/30/0/0/20 (distribution is about the same)
Gear: Full berserker gear, accessories and Superior rune of the Eagle (currently i have 55% crit rate, 237% crit dmg).

Playstyle:
With such a high crit and crit dmg, phantasms does a significant part of dmg (Izerker for melee aoe, Iwarlock for ranged). Shatter only if there's no way your phantasms can squeeze in a 2nd attack.

Generally stick to GS, staff only as opener (staff #2, staff #3, staff #5 combo field, gs #2 projectile finisher, gs #4 whirl finisher) and when melee Izerker is at a disadvantage, switch staff just for the Iwarlock.

Q: How do you survive with +0 toughness, +0 vit?
A: The same way OP does, with pretty much unlimited dodge and utilities (every dodge creates a clone between you and your foe with potential cripple when traited).

Why 30 pts in Dueling?
The only reason is for the +30% crit dmg (applies to us and phantasms).
Confusing Combatants contribute some bonus dmg on clone death/replaced. Major trait I use Desperate Decoy but its pretty insignificant (only activates around 10% instead of the 25% stated, seems to have a hidden ICD).

Feel free to add comments, questions.

Edited by Drakernez, 05 October 2012 - 09:06 AM.


#24 XgreatArtist

XgreatArtist

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1496 posts
  • Location:In Your Bedroom
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:49 AM

View PostDrakernez, on 05 October 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

I've been running a power/precision/crit% build with gs/staff myself since i reached 80. Glad to see people are realising the potential for mesmer dps.

OP totally covered the essense of GS/Staff build, but i would like to add on some of my personal thoughts.

My current build: 20/30/0/0/20 (distribution is about the same)
Gear: Full berserker gear, accessories and Superior rune of the Eagle (currently i have 55% crit rate, 237% crit dmg).

Playstyle:
With such a high crit and crit dmg, phantasms does a significant part of dmg (Izerker for melee aoe, Iwarlock for ranged). Shatter only if there's no way your phantasms can squeeze in a 2nd attack.

Generally stick to GS, staff only as opener (staff #2, staff #3, staff #5 combo field, gs #2 projectile finisher, gs #4 whirl finisher) and when melee Izerker is at a disadvantage, switch staff just for the Iwarlock.

Q: How do you survive with +0 toughness, +0 vit?
A: The same way OP does, with pretty much unlimited dodge and utilities (every dodge creates a clone between you and your foe with potential cripple when traited).

Why 30 pts in Dueling?
The only reason is for the +30% crit dmg (applies to us and phantasms).
Confusing Combatants contribute some bonus dmg on clone death/replaced. Major trait I use Desperate Decoy but its pretty insignificant (only activates around 10% instead of the 25% stated, seems to have a hidden ICD).

Feel free to add comments, questions.

how does this build fare in wvw? I m a wvw fan myself and i spend more time in wvw than PVE. With the lack of vitality, even if you can dodge, isnt it going to kill you fast?

#25 Drakernez

Drakernez

    Pale Tree Seedling

  • New Members
  • 3 posts
  • Server:Henge of Denravi

Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:11 AM

View PostXgreatArtist, on 05 October 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

how does this build fare in wvw? I m a wvw fan myself and i spend more time in wvw than PVE. With the lack of vitality, even if you can dodge, isnt it going to kill you fast?

In 1v1 situation, you have a good chance of halving your opponent's health within 2 skill cast (#4, #2), rendering them in a flight or fight situation with zerker on their back and you infront. Combining that with utilities such as Decoy, Blink, surviving is no issue.

When fighting in a group, staying at max range and utilise your gs #4, #2. #5 if they manage to close in, Decoy, Blink to escape. Throwing down feedbacks at strategic location (bridges, doorway, etc).
Utilise your portal, Mass stealth and Time Warp.

I would consider 20 Domination, 20 Dueling, 20 Illusions as the core. 10 for the tougness or vit doesn't help u survive much, might as well use it for dmg. The occasional Desperate Decoy might save your life too. :P

#26 XgreatArtist

XgreatArtist

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1496 posts
  • Location:In Your Bedroom
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:52 AM

^
thanks a lot!

#27 boxterduke

boxterduke

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 259 posts
  • Location:Old Ascalon
  • Profession:Mesmer
  • Guild Tag:[REN]
  • Server:Tarnished Coast

Posted 05 October 2012 - 04:36 PM

Very nice build, I'm gonna try it tonight and see. I'm running a similar build however without anything in Dueling.
I'm gonna do one change though and move the 10 points from Chaos to Inspiration to be able to remove a condition while healing since most of my time is spent in Orr.

#28 Nominiel

Nominiel

    Pale Tree Seedling

  • New Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 07 October 2012 - 03:58 PM

Currently I'm very intrigued about the Staff/Greatsword build and I will try that today. However, did you look into the quite well known staff / sword + pistol/focus build by mr. prometheus? (http://www.youtube.c...rPrometheus0110)
using something like: http://www.guildhead...kiI707kiQ707kiI

I do love the staff very much and I'm still looking for a nice second one

#29 BumblebeeViper

BumblebeeViper

    Fahrar Cub

  • New Members
  • 11 posts

Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:48 PM

Edit: Ok I figured it out.  Base is 150% plus the crit damage.  So, in my example below it would be 239%.

Ok Drakernez, you have to share your secret to getting 237% crit damage.  

Following your gear specifications, the most I can achieve is 48% using one of those build simulators, which matches when I gear up likewise in the sPvP gear set (58% if I put full 30 pts into dueling, I only put 20, hence 48%).

Doing the math on PvE gear, I come up with 20 from dueling, 8 from runes, 16 from armor set, 18 from weapons, 5 or 10 from sigils depending on whether they stack or not, and 17 from adornments/jewel items.  I didn't count backpack into this.  This totals a max of 89%.

How are you getting more than this, not to mention getting into the 200% range?

Edited by BumblebeeViper, 08 October 2012 - 09:22 PM.


#30 phtotrope

phtotrope

    Pale Tree Seedling

  • Members
  • 4 posts
  • Guild Tag:[KA]
  • Server:Crystal Desert

Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:25 PM

View PostBumblebeeViper, on 08 October 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

Edit: Ok I figured it out.  Base is 150% plus the crit damage.  So, in my example below it would be 239%.

Ok Drakernez, you have to share your secret to getting 237% crit damage.  

Following your gear specifications, the most I can achieve is 48% using one of those build simulators, which matches when I gear up likewise in the sPvP gear set (58% if I put full 30 pts into dueling, I only put 20, hence 48%).

Doing the math on PvE gear, I come up with 20 from dueling, 8 from runes, 16 from armor set, 18 from weapons, 5 or 10 from sigils depending on whether they stack or not, and 17 from adornments/jewel items.  I didn't count backpack into this.  This totals a max of 89%.

How are you getting more than this, not to mention getting into the 200% range?

The base is 150%. The rest is from gear/traits.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users