50 replies to this topic

[Hak]

kilger, on 03 October 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

You've never charged an opposing army only to have their front line disappear only to re-appear in your midst executing all their best attacks which you cant avoid since you dont see it coming?  Its pretty disorienting.  Moa is kindergarden, its powerful only in very small engagements which I could care less about.

edit:  really the only way moa bird is OP is in hurting epeens, which is what all the excessive crying is about.  In the grand scale of the game its a garbage elite, or at least very situational ...you need the enemy to use their elite and counter it so it varies in usefulness, you cant just pop it and get full mileage.

Off topic: The phrase is 'I couldn't care less.' If you could care less about something then it still matters. Sick of seeing all these illiterate  people misusing the phrase. I see it so often it drives me mad.

On topic: Mesmers have the best elites in game bar none. Seriously.

[velourfog]

IMO basilisk venom is the best elite for two reasons.  First because it has a short cooldown, and the shorter the cooldown the more useful the skill.  An ability that kills everyone in a 1200 range radius would be extremely powerful, but if it's on a 30 minute cooldown its overall usefulness is limited.  I'd rather have a 10% increased chance of winning every minute vs a 100% chance every 10 minutes.

Second, it compliments a dagger thief perfectly.  If you can get behind your target and survive long enough to get off a couple backstabs, you win.  Combining a 1.5 sec stun with steal pretty much guarantees that half the fight is already a sure thing.

If you pick your targets wisely you can instantly turn a 5v5 into a 4v5 every 45 seconds.

Although, as far as actual power goes, regardless of cooldown, the guardian's tome of courage is easily the strongest elite skill.  It's the only ability that can literally turn the tide of a team battle by itself.

Edited by velourfog, 15 October 2012 - 02:56 AM.

[Wifflebottom]

I honestly don't like mass invisibility, cooldown is too long and veil works better for the same purpose if you really want team stealth. Time warp is great too. But since those have already been said I'm going to say that I hate thieves guild, basically summons two quite powerful pets that distract and let him escape or backstab you for over half your health.

[NuclearDonut]

I'm gonna say Thieves Guild, I love that skill. It's CD isn't bad especially because the Thieves last like 30 seconds or so. It's a great emergency skill and it's useful in every situation.

[velourfog]

Thieve's guild is very strong because it can allow you to defend or take a point in 1v2 scenarios.  The problem is the cooldown though.  Most the time you end up saving it for the right moment, only using it once or twice in a match, if you're lucky.  Also if it gets wasted on a weak opponent you would have killed anyway, or on a point that suddenly gets reinforcements, the long cooldown hurts a lot.

Basilisk venom can certainly be wasted or evaded, but since the cooldown is short it's not a big deal.  Most importantly, you can precast it, often only having an effective 30-0 second cooldown.  The impact may not be as big, but the overall usefulness throughout the match makes it much more powerful imo.

[kilger]

Got moa birded for the first time in wvwvw!!!  And I pecked the guy to death lol.  If you think its overpowered, you really need to assess your own abilities.

(mind you it was probably some idiot that believed what he read on the forums and it was an instant win, so beating an idiot to death with my beak counts or not?)

[AetherMcLoud]

velourfog, on 15 October 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:

Thieve's guild is very strong because it can allow you to defend or take a point in 1v2 scenarios.  The problem is the cooldown though.  Most the time you end up saving it for the right moment, only using it once or twice in a match, if you're lucky.  Also if it gets wasted on a weak opponent you would have killed anyway, or on a point that suddenly gets reinforcements, the long cooldown hurts a lot.

Basilisk venom can certainly be wasted or evaded, but since the cooldown is short it's not a big deal.  Most importantly, you can precast it, often only having an effective 30-0 second cooldown.  The impact may not be as big, but the overall usefulness throughout the match makes it much more powerful imo.

I agree that thieves (coupled with mesmers) have 3 insanely good elite skills (while everyone has has MAYBE 1 good and 2 awful ones). Daggerstorm is also extremely good, long stability and aoe damage/cripple/bleeds coupled with only 90 seconds cooldown which is very low.

Thieves Guild too "only" has a 3 minute cooldown which is kinda the default elite cooldown for most classes. Everything below 2 minutes is extremely good I think. The warrior elite sigil for instance, while kinda bland, is still really awesome because it gives a 80% uptime of fury swiftness and might (and whatnot).

[AetherMcLoud]

kilger, on 15 October 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

Got moa birded for the first time in wvwvw!!!  And I pecked the guy to death lol.  If you think its overpowered, you really need to assess your own abilities.

(mind you it was probably some idiot that believed what he read on the forums and it was an instant win, so beating an idiot to death with my beak counts or not?)

If you're moa'ed in tPVP you are dead and your point will be gone if you were alone on it. Simple as that.

[Vodrin]

AetherMcLoud, on 15 October 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

If you're moa'ed in tPVP you are dead and your point will be gone if you were alone on it. Simple as that.

True, but in tournament play you only have 5 opponents to track and the Moa animation is pretty distinctive so it can be avoided. If it misses it did nothing.  Overall I'd say time warp is better for tournament play.  I'd rather run Moa in hot join though.

[Ayestes]

I wouldn't even pick the Mesmer stuff.  I mean, Moa and Time Warp are phenomenal, but I'd personally take Thieves Guild or Supply Crate.  I might be crazy, though.

[Featherman]

I'd actually have to say Battle Standard. It's quite possibly the best AoE revive and buffbot in the game. Now imagine a group of players under the effects of both Battle Standard and Time Warp...

[Skyro]

Vodrin, on 18 October 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

True, but in tournament play you only have 5 opponents to track and the Moa animation is pretty distinctive so it can be avoided. If it misses it did nothing.  Overall I'd say time warp is better for tournament play.  I'd rather run Moa in hot join though.

It really depends on your team's strategy honestly. Moa's primary use in tPvP is burning down bunkers quick.

[Grmmbl]

What I don't understand is why people are crying or whining about the moa form when you use it against them… So much rage… I mean it's a skill that are part of the game, and so because it can't make thing easier I musn't use it ?! That's really ridiculous…

[Vodrin]

Skyro, on 19 October 2012 - 04:44 AM, said:

It really depends on your team's strategy honestly. Moa's primary use in tPvP is burning down bunkers quick.

That's a great possible use of it, but I prefer boon stripping builds for that function.  Most bunkers die pretty quickly without protection on them, and the cooldowns on boon stripping abilities are much shorter than Moa.

[Mekkakat]

Ayestes, on 18 October 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

I wouldn't even pick the Mesmer stuff.  I mean, Moa and Time Warp are phenomenal, but I'd personally take Thieves Guild or Supply Crate.  I might be crazy, though.

I still say Supply Crate is great.

Moa is very, very good in tPvP imho, as is Time Warp, Thieves Guild and Daggerstorm.

[Ayestes]

To me most of the duration of Moa can be mitigated via dodge rolls and line of sight.  It can shut you down in a 1v2 situation if undodged, but to me that's not really that concerning.  In a 1v1 the only part which causes concern is the initial queued ability that causes you to stand still and do that squawk, in which you are vulnerable during that.  Afterwards, I can usually mitigate the vast majority of the damage. Time Warp doesn't really do much for the Memser itself, when it becomes incredible is when it's assisting a profession with a damaging auto attack chain.  Time Warp when used properly can be amazing, but it's certainly not "100% increased damage for 10 seconds for the group".  That said, I think Time Warp can change the outcome of a team fight.  But so can Thieves Guild or Supply Crate.

[RandolfRa]

Time Wrap is probably the most powerful of mesmer elites, at least in wvw. It should give the quickness even to golems, I think. The Moa I don't really like, but now that I see people are pissed about it, I might give it a run or two.

Edited by RandolfRa, 24 October 2012 - 10:44 PM.

[fafnr]

moa's not op'd at all,   too long to cast an too easily avoided.

Time Warp is the end all be all of elites.  It can change the tide in a wvw standoff if positioned right and god bless it.  Makes wvw standoffs interesting instead of a staring contest with meteor showers going off.

[JaxSilven]

Looking from a purely tpvp standpoint.

• Time Warp
  
• Tome of Courage
  
• Plague

Time warp is that ultimate team fight skill, remember generally in Foefire the centre cap point will change once or twice a game. Which means capping it at the start generally gives a big advantage to your team. Most matches I play have an average of 5-10minutes where the graveyard is contested before it's finally captured, except when one time utilizes TW to a better extent.

Tome of Courage is another amazing team fight skill. Most teams will just focus cc on you, you can negate this by using Sanctuary/SYG/Hallowed Ground or allies assisting you (which they will be). Team full heal is just insane.

The AoE damage/condtions on this one are insane, not to mention the effect of mass poison and your super strong defence, with high hp and blind. This is a crazy skill and can definitely turn the tide of any sized battle. Especially funny when melee cannot physically hit you (and as the enemy it's keyboard smashingly annoying =D!)

Moa has a low success rate, it's good for taking out bunkers but if their allies are good enough at supporting he won't die anyway. They do retain dodge aswell which means they just wait till the illusionary leap is casted or magic bullet to dodge.

[Siric]

Backstab..oh wait

[MrForz]

Been trying out all the possible elites, well.. For me it will remain the Supply Crate. You don't tend to see it coming.