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Crucible of Eternity Exp - Too Difficult?

coe crucible eternity explorable dungeon difficulty

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#1 Eelde

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:20 AM

I've thought about writing this a lot before I decided to actually do it, because I wanted to get some feedback from other players to make sure it wasn't just me. I held off a day when I saw the patch notes mentioning changes to CoE, but after playing through it post-patch, our group found it had possibly been made more difficult and not less. All of the "made easier" bits were for story mode, not Exp mode.

Currently CoE is probably the least run dungeon on Sorrow's Furnace because 1) The reward armor isn't that amazing in appearance or stats, and 2) The amount of frustration, time, and repair cost it requires to do the average run is prohibitive. This dungeon makes Arah, TA, CoF, and every story mode look like walks in calm meadows in comparison. Here is why:

Laser Puzzle:
All paths must complete them. If you do not have a Mesmer or a jumping skill, this little mini-puzzle can take up to a half hour of a groups time, and not necessarily because they suck. Charr naturally have problems going through because their tails trigger the lasers. Asura seem to have it a bit easier due to their small size. Norn males have issues. Then there are issues with lag and the speed of the "laser cage" that you must jump inside of. If you have less than perfect latency, jumping through in time with the cage is nearly impossible. If you look at YouTube for videos of "CoE Laser Puzzle" you'll find varying degrees of frustrated naked groups spam dying here. It would be stupid not take your armor off for this, because most people die multiple times. To make matters worse, you need to get 3 people through it, and while it seems easy to some, the normal player with normal lag issues finds this puzzle nearly impossible.

Sub Path - Icebrood Boss Glitches:
I'm talking about the Basher boss towards the end. Past a certain point the pillars no longer function to remove his Armor, which reduces normal DD to nearly 0 and allows only Conditions through. It takes nearly 30 minutes to kill him in this state with just condition damage while he remains and unstoppable juggernaut to whomever happens to do the most condition damage. Apparently, him glitching like this is quite common, and people do not like to do this path because of it.

Front Door Path - Destroyer in Bubble Boss:
This boss is really very, very easy. Mind blowingly easy. But it still takes 10 minutes to beat him because the amount of DD you can inflict while the shield is down is quite low compared to his HP pool. The boss becomes a mindless exercise of firing the lasers jumping down over the lava, hitting for 10 seconds, then running back, waiting on cool downs, and repeating. The only difficulty I encountered was the lava spikes from the ceiling knocking you off the platforms. Compared to the rest of the dungeon, this encounter seems uninspired and a waste of time.

Subject Alpha BOSS Parts 1 2 and 3:
Crystals -
For starters, the crystal prisons should naturally decay over time. If you are the last one alive in your group, he spams you with crystals and it's incredibly difficult to hold the boss or avoid a wipe at this point. If you are stuck in a crystal, that's it. He's going to hit you with AoEs or Spikes until either you die or your group makes the long run back to you.

Circle Behavior -
As for his behavior, the circles are not so difficult when you realize they're donuts instead of circles and the middle is safe, however, sometimes he goes into a sort of bezerk mode and depending on where you are fighting him, it is extremely difficult to avoid the circles or keep up your stamina for dodging. In particular, Front Door Path Subject Alpha #3 the area is very small and the forced camera angle makes this fight extra difficult for an ordinarily experienced group. Front Door Path Subject Alpha # 1 also seems to be taking steroids since the October 1st patch. The other particularly nasty one is Teleportation Path Subject Alpha #3 who spams circles in an abnormally large and fast radius.

Survivability Prospects -
If the Risen and Tentacles were indeed intended as Rally subjects, which I think they were, they have too much HP in general to be used to Rally before you get WTFBBQ killed by circles. Did I mention that Circles hit for 14k? That's more than pure DD stat player's HP. As someone who has had to tank this boss for extended periods on a Necro (not pure DD stat, 25k HP), between his spikes and his normal attack, dodging when needed, and running all over the place, my heals simply can't keep up with the damage. The whole boss encounter becomes a nasty zerg to death with people running back (why is there no close waypoint for Sub and Tele?) just to hold the boss so we can slowly DD it to death.

There are certainly more things I think need to be looked at in this dungeon. And for the record's sake, people thought TA was extremely difficult before but I find it to be very easy. I could take a group and complete perhaps 4 runs in the time it takes to complete one run of CoE with the average random squad. I've been pretty lucky as far as squads go, but the one or two horror squads make me want to scream in frustration here. Even the good squads where everyone knows what to do and when, suffered random wipes due to sketchy boss behavior or glitches.

I hope these issues get looked at and addressed because it really is a shame to put such good dungeon design to waste.

Edited by Eelde, 03 October 2012 - 12:21 AM.


#2 Big Ol Norn

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:45 AM

Honestly I haven't had time to play those EXPs but this sounds like reasonable feedback. Dungeons seem to be far from balanced yet.

#3 Shadowrose

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:03 AM

Once I did the sub path with 3 people from a guild and 1 pug (i was the other pug)

It was my first time and it went great, it was challenging.

Idk why everybody says that it's too difficult... was I lucky? I hear that the teleport path is even easier than the sub one so wtf

#4 Dusty Friday

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:13 AM

Alright, I'll try to help you out a bit, as I was doing only CoE the last few days in order to get a weapon. Keep in mind that this was your initial experience, which is not always a great one. My first encounter with the three paths was shitty as well. Let me share what I believe best counters your issues:

Laser Puzzle:

   This part is actually one of my favorites. I've had a couple of runs when I did it perfectly, first time w/o taking armor off. Those were kinda lucky. I usually manage to do it right if I center my (female human) toon as best as possible, then start jumping after the lasers start going off in your forward direction. Follow them closely, and make sure you did your job to center your character towards them. Stop right before they reach the end, if you are standing exactly in the middle - the laser will not touch you on its way back, then after it is behind you - jump forward. Ironically, the biggest problem I've had during this section was trying to get 1 or 2 guys to press the buttons at the same time. Seriously, it took us about 5 or 6 minutes to get one of the charrs (not trying to be racist here :P) to understand what he needed to do. I guess some people just aren't hackers.


Sub Path - Icebrood Boss Glitches:

   About this part - I feel you, man. This boss used to behave perfectly, it was a fight that took only one thing to be done right, but if this was an intended nerf... that's not the way to go about it. I agree that the boss, and a bunch of other bosses, are bugged - they just seize to move at some point for a short period of time. The only advice I have for this part is to make sure you are always standing BEHIND the pillars, just so you can still hit with your ranged weapon. Avoid standing close to the middle at ALL times, ALL of your team. This nullifies any chances of missing a charged headbutt. I've noticed that this happens around the ranger pets (being a ranger myself). Sometimes the bosses stare at the pet while not moving... But I could be wrong about this one, the devs should know better.

Front Door Path - Destroyer in Bubble Boss:

   This dude is extremely easier than you think! You will need 2 strong ranged characters to sit on the left platform. you will notice that on the side of the wall (in front of the corridor leading to the next part) has stairs. You don't need to go down those stairs, but you DO need to make sure 3 of you are constantly standing on the laser cannons. If you have them fire exactly as soon as the fire shield is up, you will have it destroyed in no time. As soon as that happens - your two ranged players begin to nuke him down. They shall stand on the platform, making sure they dodge the red firecicles. This platform is close enough for my shortbow to hit, so it shouldn't be much of a problem for most ranged weapons. Figure out who can shoot that far before you down the shield, making sure you dodge the returning projectiles. Also - make sure your laser cannon guys are standing as far from the wall's edge as possible - otherwise they will have to dodge firecicles as well.

Subject Alpha BOSS Parts 1 2 and 3:

   That damn son of a bitch, subject Alpha. I hate him as much as I love him... During my first few runs I couldn't believe how OP he was, but eventually experience proved me wrong. What's most important, is that ALL of his abilities can be dodged, some just take some practice. The small firecicle ring - doesn't need dodging, you usually have time to walk out of those circles; The MASS circle earthquake - avoid walking out of these! If you are standing outside, close to the edge, they sometimes still hit you. The important thing here is timing - as long as you dodge shortly after the circles are up - you will be safe, even if you land in the rest of these circles. This is very easy to do once you get the timing right - manage to get the feeling right and you will never get hit by this ability again. The forward-cone-rock ability is a bit trickier - here you need to observe the boss as much as possible - make sure your team is well spread-out (and make sure they know when to res and when not to) - whoever he is looking at, is the guy who's getting the next bash. There is a rotation of his skills, you will notice that he uses this ability after his firecicles, so make sure to dodge as soon as you see him starting to jump.You might blow a dodge on one of his undead bone claws, but that shouldn't be much of a problem, as you can always dodge one of his abilities and hopefully heal through his rock cone. I advise all people to trait for endurance regeneration when doing this dungeon, as it's priceless. Chances are you will get hit by the cone rock ability, but don't be afraid of it too much. The hardest thing to dodge is the purple crystal. I absolutely think it needs to have a debuff icon of its own with a CD timer! I've noticed the only two ways to counter this are: 1) dodge BEFORE he starts casting the animation, then it will hit in front of you. This takes a bit of luck to pull off, unless you know exactly when he will cast it, again watching who he is facing. 2) jump in the air when he is casting it, hopefully freezing you above ground. This is weird, as it sometimes nullifies the damage from his AoE. I've saved my life like this a few times. Well, these are you solo options. The BEST normal way to counter this is to target the crystal as soon as possible and have your team burst it down. If they take more than 1-2 seconds to begin fire - they are technically slacking. This is hard to pull off with a pug, but bursting the crystal down is a sure save. Make sure you are watching Alpha and make sure your team never dies all at the same time, while others are running towards him.

If you have other questions - I'll be glad to try and help out!
Have fun^^

Edited by Dusty Friday, 03 October 2012 - 01:19 AM.


#5 Eelde

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:49 AM

@ Dusty Friday - This is far from my initial experience, I've been in CoE many times and spoken with many regular farmers. I do not understand where you got this impression and if I gave that impression I apologize. I feel bad because you wrote a lot, but these are all things I'm well aware of as a regular CoEer. Especially the second boss I wrote about which I said "is extremely easy". I did not ask any questions, so I'm sorry for the miscommuncation.

Edit: I'm sure your information will be helpful to new players.

Edited by Eelde, 03 October 2012 - 02:52 AM.


#6 Ardeni

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:12 AM

I don't really know whether to think that CoE explorable is too hard or not. I've been there three times: once in the front door route and twice in teleporter route. Every time I went there, I died at least 10 times (not counting lasers) due to different reasons. On first two runs I died mainly due to the Subject alpha's aoes as I couldn't grasp when to dodge (and I was using the horrible double tap dodge) but on the third run I only died twice due to him.

Yesterday when I went there, though, I died a lot on the boss which uses the turrets to heal himself, cure his conditions and etc because he kept killing me (and only me) in hits that took less than two seconds. I don't know whether it was a bug or what, but at least I couldn't dodge it since he casted the purple ray almost immediately. Also the subject alpha seemed to have some circle attacks that casted immediately, so you couldn't avoid them. That might have been due to going to the front door route that I hadn't done before. I also met the destroyer boss and I agree that he takes too long to kill even though we indeed had two rangers to nuke him when his shield was down. Nobody died, but the boss still took 10 minutes to kill.

As for the laser jumping, I suck at it since my computer is old and I'm having small lag all the time when I play. Due to this I can't jump the lasers fast enough unless I learn the rythm in which I have to jump, which means that I have to ignore what I see. I haven't got through this part even once during the three times I've went to CoE, but there have always been people who have been better at it than me. Thieves can bypass the puzzle with their shortbow's 5th skill, so it is much easier if you have 1-2 thieves in your group.

Overall, I am quite happy that there are hard dungeons. If I were to decide what changes would be made to CoE, I would perhaps change the laser jumping a little so that you don't need a high end machine to finish it, lenghen the time how long the destroyer bosses shield is down and perhaps reduce the amount of spawns of the subject alpha boss. The subject alpha is incredibly tiresome since you kill him three times in every run, which means 9 times in total if you do all three paths daily (which I haven't been able to do due to the 1-2 hours that it takes to finish this dungeon).

#7 Shadowrose

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:17 AM

View PostArdeni, on 03 October 2012 - 04:12 AM, said:

I don't really know whether to think that CoE explorable is too hard or not. I've been there three times: once in the front door route and twice in teleporter route. Every time I went there, I died at least 10 times (not counting lasers) due to different reasons. On first two runs I died mainly due to the Subject alpha's aoes as I couldn't grasp when to dodge (and I was using the horrible double tap dodge) but on the third run I only died twice due to him.

Yesterday when I went there, though, I died a lot on the boss which uses the turrets to heal himself, cure his conditions and etc because he kept killing me (and only me) in hits that took less than two seconds. I don't know whether it was a bug or what, but at least I couldn't dodge it since he casted the purple ray almost immediately. Also the subject alpha seemed to have some circle attacks that casted immediately, so you couldn't avoid them. That might have been due to going to the front door route that I hadn't done before. I also met the destroyer boss and I agree that he takes too long to kill even though we indeed had two rangers to nuke him when his shield was down. Nobody died, but the boss still took 10 minutes to kill.

As for the laser jumping, I suck at it since my computer is old and I'm having small lag all the time when I play. Due to this I can't jump the lasers fast enough unless I learn the rythm in which I have to jump, which means that I have to ignore what I see. I haven't got through this part even once during the three times I've went to CoE, but there have always been people who have been better at it than me. Thieves can bypass the puzzle with their shortbow's 5th skill, so it is much easier if you have 1-2 thieves in your group.

Overall, I am quite happy that there are hard dungeons. If I were to decide what changes would be made to CoE, I would perhaps change the laser jumping a little so that you don't need a high end machine to finish it, lenghen the time how long the destroyer bosses shield is down and perhaps reduce the amount of spawns of the subject alpha boss. The subject alpha is incredibly tiresome since you kill him three times in every run, which means 9 times in total if you do all three paths daily (which I haven't been able to do due to the 1-2 hours that it takes to finish this dungeon).
oh, I had forgotten about that stupid, stupid purple beam robot.

Are you an elementalist? because it also seemed to like me over any of my group members.

without fail he would focus me every single time...

#8 Princess Fatora

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:06 AM

Eelde, if you have no problems with the dungeon, how is it too difficult?

It seems about right, difficulty wise. Not too hard, not to easy, and the laser puzzle is great fun. The bees in TA are worse, honestly. They take far longer with a pug. I really don't see how normal players can't do it. I'm a normal player, and I can do so fine.

Quote

without fail he would focus me every single time...

Engineer here. I'm his favorite target :'(

Edited by Princess Fatora, 03 October 2012 - 05:22 AM.


#9 Milennin

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:46 AM

I've done all 3 parts, and wouldn't say it's too hard. It didn't feel all that much more difficult than other dungeons.
The laser part is pretty easy once you know when to jump. I've done it several times in PUGs and never did we take 30 minutes to clear it. Maybe 15 minutes or so at most.
The Destroyer boss is so boring, don't like it at all.xD Don't want to go back there, ever.
I find Project Alpha to be pretty challenging, because you need the team to free people from the crystal prisons. Also ressing people from downed is almost impossible, or at least very dangerous. The circles aren't the bad thing, though, you just gotta time your dodge right. You can safely stay on the red circles for a second or so, then use your dodge, and you won't get hit at all. However, you'll sometimes have to dodge more often than you can, so it's important to bring extra defensive skills or kite back for a bit.

#10 Valkaire

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:54 AM

I think it's absolutely perfect. I've done it with a full pug and in guild runs with little to no set backs and it's just the right level of challenging. Perfect mix of coordination, tank n spank and tactics imo.

#11 Eelde

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:22 AM

I never said I have no problem with it, I said it is too difficult for the average squad, and there are numerous bugs. Please reread what I said if this is your impression. Do you play a Charr? Do you play a Norn Male? Do you have lag when you play? These are the people I listed who have problems with Laser Puzzle normally.

The Bees in TA are quite simple, just run through them while avoiding the wells, dodge if they get too close.

Edited by Eelde, 03 October 2012 - 06:25 AM.


#12 Lordkrall

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:27 AM

View PostEelde, on 03 October 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

I never said I have no problem with it, I said it is too difficult for the average squad, and there are numerous bugs. Please reread what I said if this is your impression. Do you play a Charr? Do you play a Norn Male? Do you have lag when you play? These are the people I listed who have problems with Laser Puzzle normally.

The Bees in TA are quite simple, just run through them while avoiding the wells, dodge if they get too close.

Exactly, which is the whole point of explorable.

#13 ilr

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:36 AM

View PostDusty Friday, on 03 October 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

The hardest thing to dodge is the purple crystal.

Hah... I had a feeling you didn't actually know what you were talking about...

You can't dodge them.  They're identical to the Scavenger Lunge except with no range limitation. I've been trapped by them while upside down mid-flip which means they ignore dodging. ....so If you thought you dodged it, it's because you gained Stability for a few seconds from an Ally.   ...which is what makes the Teleporter path so Binary and in Immediate need of a rebalance.   IE: if your team has multiple sources of stability, the final encounter in that path becomes rather boring and easy, but unfortunately that excludes most classes who don't get multiple / longer-lasting Stability boons.


Meanwhile the Submarine path is too easy IMO... if your team all goes Melee weapons, Alpha spams his AoE's a lot less often and you kill him really quickly too b/c it's melee and as an added bonus, the Crystal Prisons last all of one second with 4 players mashing melee attacks together.

Edited by ilr, 03 October 2012 - 06:37 AM.


#14 Eelde

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:54 AM

View PostLordkrall, on 03 October 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

Exactly, which is the whole point of explorable.

And the bugs/glitches? It's fair to exclude people from content based on their race (charr or norn) or geographic distance to server?

Quote

You can't dodge them.  They're identical to the Scavenger Lunge except with no range limitation. I've been trapped by them while upside down mid-flip which means they ignore dodging. ....so If you thought you dodged it, it's because you gained Stability for a few seconds from an Ally.   ...which is what makes the Teleporter path so Binary and in Immediate need of a rebalance.

Prior to patch I was actually able to destroy them from the inside with Death Shroud, but this was seemingly corrected. Other than that or your team mates destroying them (assuming they're alive/present), haven't found much that can be done about them without Stability. I've had to hold this boss before so I feel your pain :(

Quote

Overall, I am quite happy that there are hard dungeons. If I were to decide what changes would be made to CoE, I would perhaps change the laser jumping a little so that you don't need a high end machine to finish it, lenghen the time how long the destroyer bosses shield is down and perhaps reduce the amount of spawns of the subject alpha boss. The subject alpha is incredibly tiresome since you kill him three times in every run, which means 9 times in total if you do all three paths daily (which I haven't been able to do due to the 1-2 hours that it takes to finish this dungeon).

This sounds legit. I've had squads were two people were forced to wait for 3 people who either physically could not complete it or due to lag could not complete it. In this sort of situation, everyone feels bad.

Edited by Eelde, 03 October 2012 - 07:00 AM.


#15 Lordkrall

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 07:05 AM

View PostEelde, on 03 October 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

And the bugs/glitches? It's fair to exclude people from content based on their race (charr or norn) or geographic distance to server?

You do know that the hit-boxes of all races are identical right?
A charr has just a big chance to get hit as a Asura.
Race does not stop anyone from doing the content.
Just as Jumping puzzles are not impossible as a Charr/Norn (no matter how often people seems to shout that it is)

As for geographical distance: The higher ping you get is so minor that it won't really effect a good player. I played on the US servers the whole "open" beta and I didn't have any problem with reaction and such.

Edited by Lordkrall, 03 October 2012 - 07:06 AM.


#16 Tenicord

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 07:14 AM

I think it's too hard. I'm sorry I just don't believe an MMO should be this difficult. I know everyone loves a challenge but there is nothing compelling about a boss with mass health and attacks that basically 1hit ko and/or can't be dodged. And while some people might like insanely tough and/or boringly long... it's an MMORPG and if it wants to keep the MMO part, it needs to tone down a bit.

A.Net once said that consumers don't know what they and I completely agree. People said they wanted a challenge and blizzard give them Diablo 3 which they are now toning down the difficulty. Guild Wars 2 is starting to balance and nerf some things, as it should!

In the end what's more fun to MOST people is variety and frankly only enough of a challenge that can still be rather easily over come with a little planning or prepping. And that's understandable. There is nothing fun about dying over and over again and wasting tons of money on repairs. It's only fun when/IF you actually then beat it. So they really need to make sure that you eventually can. Even in PUGs.

#17 Waar Kijk Je Naar

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 07:49 AM

Some encounters need some tweaking, especially the Laboratory Specimen (Destroyer boss on path 3) and the Earth Spikes fired by Subject Alpha, but overall the dungeon is pretty balanced and not too hard. I've run through it 8 times, 3 times on a (human) Mesmer, 3 times on a (charr) Warrior and twice on a (sylvari) Ranger. PUG all 8 times. After a few runs it becomes rather trivial.

Also Boss AI needs tweaking. Currently bosses often focus on 1 player the whole fight, making the fight incredible easy for the rest. This happens with Subject Alpha and Bjarn the Rampager, among others.

#18 jirayasan

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 08:03 AM

Didn't they nerf it? :S

#19 Waar Kijk Je Naar

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 08:06 AM

Only story mode.

#20 Saintray1

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 08:06 AM

This dungeon is only hard when ran with an unfit group.

Those lasers? I'm a guardian, I have no special skills I use for this, allthough I might be able to use the leap of faith, but why would I.
I just take of my armor (no repairs, don't even know if its needed), wait for the vertical lasers to reach me, then pass 2 steps. Jump there. As soon as they start moving it is a strait jump/jump/jump from there. It's so easy when you know this.

Subject alpha. I didn't know about the donut thing, because I time my evade right at the end of the circle. You don't need to avoid them, just time your evades correctly and they won't hurt you. The only sucky thing might be the crystals, but ffs, they put mobs and stuff in there to rally on.

At the moment, I don't have much time to do instances, but when I do, it's either CoE or Arah. Those are the most fun instances for me.

You are right on some of the glitches though. But I do not think the instance is to hard/difficult.

#21 jirayasan

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 08:08 AM

View PostWaar Kijk Je Naar, on 03 October 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

Only story mode.

Oh. Well, story mode should be easier than explorable. Some explorable dungeons have been buffed to hard or glitched and bugged.

#22 Dusty Friday

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 08:30 AM

Apologies if I misunderstood you. I've had relatively fast explo runs in this dungeon, therefore I thought its difficulty comes down to how you execute your boss encounters. Might've missed the stability thing since I'm staring at Alpha's face most of the time, but this makes things a lot easier - know that this can save you. Guild Wars should always promote teamwork and team (spatial) coordination.

I don't believe the dungeon is TOO hard, it will probably take a solid 2-3 hours for a full run to be completed with a PuG, and I feel that it can be done in at least half that much with a very experienced group. Knowing exactly what to do is key to having faster speed. If it was impossible to deal with any of these scenarios - then we'd have a dungeon that is too hard.

I've also managed to dodge a crystal by having my pet stand in front of me, at which point it will be hit by the purple thingie instead. As I've written - bursting them down is the most efficient way to break out and if done by 3+ people - it's very fast.

I've only tried to shed some light on how you can do it faster, not how you can do it in general, I'm sure you've cleared CoE as you've said. And after all - a challenge is fun if it can be conquered. :P

Edited by Dusty Friday, 03 October 2012 - 08:30 AM.


#23 Swickster

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 08:31 AM

View PostEelde, on 03 October 2012 - 12:20 AM, said:

I've thought about writing this a lot before I decided to actually do it, because I wanted to get some feedback from other players to make sure it wasn't just me. I held off a day when I saw the patch notes mentioning changes to CoE, but after playing through it post-patch, our group found it had possibly been made more difficult and not less. All of the "made easier" bits were for story mode, not Exp mode.

Currently CoE is probably the least run dungeon on Sorrow's Furnace because 1) The reward armor isn't that amazing in appearance or stats, and 2) The amount of frustration, time, and repair cost it requires to do the average run is prohibitive. This dungeon makes Arah, TA, CoF, and every story mode look like walks in calm meadows in comparison. Here is why:

Laser Puzzle:
All paths must complete them. If you do not have a Mesmer or a jumping skill, this little mini-puzzle can take up to a half hour of a groups time, and not necessarily because they suck. Charr naturally have problems going through because their tails trigger the lasers. Asura seem to have it a bit easier due to their small size. Norn males have issues. Then there are issues with lag and the speed of the "laser cage" that you must jump inside of. If you have less than perfect latency, jumping through in time with the cage is nearly impossible. If you look at YouTube for videos of "CoE Laser Puzzle" you'll find varying degrees of frustrated naked groups spam dying here. It would be stupid not take your armor off for this, because most people die multiple times. To make matters worse, you need to get 3 people through it, and while it seems easy to some, the normal player with normal lag issues finds this puzzle nearly impossible.

Sub Path - Icebrood Boss Glitches:
I'm talking about the Basher boss towards the end. Past a certain point the pillars no longer function to remove his Armor, which reduces normal DD to nearly 0 and allows only Conditions through. It takes nearly 30 minutes to kill him in this state with just condition damage while he remains and unstoppable juggernaut to whomever happens to do the most condition damage. Apparently, him glitching like this is quite common, and people do not like to do this path because of it.

Front Door Path - Destroyer in Bubble Boss:
This boss is really very, very easy. Mind blowingly easy. But it still takes 10 minutes to beat him because the amount of DD you can inflict while the shield is down is quite low compared to his HP pool. The boss becomes a mindless exercise of firing the lasers jumping down over the lava, hitting for 10 seconds, then running back, waiting on cool downs, and repeating. The only difficulty I encountered was the lava spikes from the ceiling knocking you off the platforms. Compared to the rest of the dungeon, this encounter seems uninspired and a waste of time.

Subject Alpha BOSS Parts 1 2 and 3:
Crystals -
For starters, the crystal prisons should naturally decay over time. If you are the last one alive in your group, he spams you with crystals and it's incredibly difficult to hold the boss or avoid a wipe at this point. If you are stuck in a crystal, that's it. He's going to hit you with AoEs or Spikes until either you die or your group makes the long run back to you.

Circle Behavior -
As for his behavior, the circles are not so difficult when you realize they're donuts instead of circles and the middle is safe, however, sometimes he goes into a sort of bezerk mode and depending on where you are fighting him, it is extremely difficult to avoid the circles or keep up your stamina for dodging. In particular, Front Door Path Subject Alpha #3 the area is very small and the forced camera angle makes this fight extra difficult for an ordinarily experienced group. Front Door Path Subject Alpha # 1 also seems to be taking steroids since the October 1st patch. The other particularly nasty one is Teleportation Path Subject Alpha #3 who spams circles in an abnormally large and fast radius.

Survivability Prospects -
If the Risen and Tentacles were indeed intended as Rally subjects, which I think they were, they have too much HP in general to be used to Rally before you get WTFBBQ killed by circles. Did I mention that Circles hit for 14k? That's more than pure DD stat player's HP. As someone who has had to tank this boss for extended periods on a Necro (not pure DD stat, 25k HP), between his spikes and his normal attack, dodging when needed, and running all over the place, my heals simply can't keep up with the damage. The whole boss encounter becomes a nasty zerg to death with people running back (why is there no close waypoint for Sub and Tele?) just to hold the boss so we can slowly DD it to death.

There are certainly more things I think need to be looked at in this dungeon. And for the record's sake, people thought TA was extremely difficult before but I find it to be very easy. I could take a group and complete perhaps 4 runs in the time it takes to complete one run of CoE with the average random squad. I've been pretty lucky as far as squads go, but the one or two horror squads make me want to scream in frustration here. Even the good squads where everyone knows what to do and when, suffered random wipes due to sketchy boss behavior or glitches.

I hope these issues get looked at and addressed because it really is a shame to put such good dungeon design to waste.

Lazer Puzzle- An ele, thief or mesmer can clear this with extreme ease. IMO the main problem with this is that you need 3 people to cross it, it should only be 2. That'd help quite a bit imo.

Destroyer in Bubble: I actually love the design of this boss, its the only boss in the game (that im aware of) where "Burst Damage" is not only good but extremely important/effective.

Alpha Boss 1,2 and 3:

Crystals: Half of the Classes can escape this with a instant cast teleport, not a bad idea to have them spec as your "tank" in case you get close to wipes. (Steal, Shadowstep, Lightning flash, Blink, Merciful Intervention(i think for guardians). I'm sure necro's can get out as well with the worm tele assuming it doesn't get on shot by a circle.

Circle Issues- Never had trouble with the circles at all. Swiftness will allow you to get out even the most sticky situation w/o the use of a dodge roll. (in fact signet of shadows does too and thats only 25%)

Survivability- The tentacles are indeed meant for ressing, but that doesnt mean you should one hit them from the downed state.Have your team mates weaken them for you, it doesn't take much to do so. Use "Res Sigs" for quick easy and effective resses without the need to actually pick someone up. I'm glad theres no nearby waypoint. Death zerging promotes bad play. The boss is more then manageable with no deaths with even a half cordinated team. I ran it with a pug only knowing one other person. Me and that person(Me thief, him guardian) traded aggro on the boss while the other people DPS'ed from afar, and i mean far to avoid wipes.

Personally i don't think CoE is hard at all. I just think the bosses have to much HP. I do however find the CoE gear incredibly nice looking and will continue to farm it to my hearts content.

#24 Sevens

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:52 AM

View PostTenicord, on 03 October 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

I think it's too hard. I'm sorry I just don't believe an MMO should be this difficult. I know everyone loves a challenge but there is nothing compelling about a boss with mass health and attacks that basically 1hit ko and/or can't be dodged. And while some people might like insanely tough and/or boringly long... it's an MMORPG and if it wants to keep the MMO part, it needs to tone down a bit.

A.Net once said that consumers don't know what they and I completely agree. People said they wanted a challenge and blizzard give them Diablo 3 which they are now toning down the difficulty. Guild Wars 2 is starting to balance and nerf some things, as it should!

In the end what's more fun to MOST people is variety and frankly only enough of a challenge that can still be rather easily over come with a little planning or prepping. And that's understandable. There is nothing fun about dying over and over again and wasting tons of money on repairs. It's only fun when/IF you actually then beat it. So they really need to make sure that you eventually can. Even in PUGs.
No, Pugs shouldnt be able to beat Xmode of dungeons a month after release.....Xmodes are GW2s raids, they are not meant for any ol' pug group to waltz in and faceroll the content. Those wanting an easier or smoother game play have all of PVE and Smode dungeons to do, leave the Xmode alone so that those who wish for a challenge can have it.

#25 Hailfall

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:30 AM

We did 2 paths in this dungeon now (the teleport and the submarine path) and the only real problem we had was with the lasergrid.

Funny enough my bf (a very large norn) had no problems going trough it once he figured out how to do it but me on my tiny asura on the other hand could not.

I really liked the Icebrood Boss and it was a nice idea that you had to get him to fall face down to remove the buff. With us the pillars did not "bug" out so we were able to kill him without a hitch or working on it too long.

Regarding Subject Alpha, the only thing I found annoying was killing him in such a small space with the teleport path because you cant really dodge or move around much. I am not sure if it is a bug but I was able to dodge out of those encasement crystals that he makes after he encased me.

This dungeon is fun (I LOVE the enviroment and the intercom cracks me up!) and a challenge and defenitly not too hard.

Edited by Hailfall, 03 October 2012 - 10:30 AM.


#26 AngryTom

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:33 AM

In a word: No.

It isn't too difficult. Challenging sure, but do you really want it to be easy?

#27 Eelde

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:15 AM

View PostLordkrall, on 03 October 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

You do know that the hit-boxes of all races are identical right?

This is going by what I have been told, to be honest. Charr players claim their tail triggers the lasers.

I have no issue with the laser puzzle myself, but there should be no reason that I can finish it, AFK, go cook dinner, come back and still be the only one on the other side while my squad mates spam die. There have been times when I have been laggy as well and frozen mid jump and melted my face off, but these are in the minority for me while some others claim it happens every time.

The TA bees puzzle can be passed if completed by one person, I don't see why three people have to complete a puzzle when not every one can do it (lag, tail issues apparently as stated above). As someone above said, perhaps 2 people would be more realistic.

Quote

Also Boss AI needs tweaking. Currently bosses often focus on 1 player the whole fight, making the fight incredible easy for the rest. This happens with Subject Alpha and Bjarn the Rampager, among others.

I've noticed this as well, especially on the Golem boss, which is not terribly difficult himself. He focuses on one person so much that I can literally AFK on him, come back, and still see him wacking the same person even after they died and ran back. Bjarn focused on me while glitched and I had to run around in circles while my squad condition damaged him to death for 30 minutes.

I had the pleasure of running a little bit ago with 3 pugs who were new to the dungeon. Got to lasers, finished, went to wash dishes, came back, still not done. Time: 15 Min to pass, not too bad. Golem Boss: Extra focuses a Mesmer and stays on him the entire fight after repeated deaths and rallies. Subject Alpha #2, squad wipe at 10% HP when I stopped to try to rally someone, started over, 30 minutes just on him. Our guardian claims tentacles don't rally him for some reason, curious.

Is the instance too hard? Maybe, maybe not. Is it buggy and needing some tender loving from GMs? Yes, I think so.

#28 Princess Fatora

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:31 AM

View PostEelde, on 03 October 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

The Bees in TA are quite simple, just run through them while avoiding the wells, dodge if they get too close.

That was the point, silly. They are simple.

And yet more complex than the laser thing. Pugs do both just fine.

The only thing in this dungeon that needs a change is the destroyer boss, because boring.

#29 Shadowrose

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:18 PM

View PostTenicord, on 03 October 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

I think it's too hard. I'm sorry I just don't believe an MMO should be this difficult. I know everyone loves a challenge but there is nothing compelling about a boss with mass health and attacks that basically 1hit ko and/or can't be dodged. And while some people might like insanely tough and/or boringly long... it's an MMORPG and if it wants to keep the MMO part, it needs to tone down a bit.

A.Net once said that consumers don't know what they and I completely agree. People said they wanted a challenge and blizzard give them Diablo 3 which they are now toning down the difficulty. Guild Wars 2 is starting to balance and nerf some things, as it should!

In the end what's more fun to MOST people is variety and frankly only enough of a challenge that can still be rather easily over come with a little planning or prepping. And that's understandable. There is nothing fun about dying over and over again and wasting tons of money on repairs. It's only fun when/IF you actually then beat it. So they really need to make sure that you eventually can. Even in PUGs.
It's not hard.

You casuals want every single piece of content adjusted to your subpar gaming skills, it is quite sickening tbh.

If you want easy mode, you got PvE, farming, events and pretty much anything that this game has to offer. stop trying to dumb down even more the game, there are parts that are actually meant to be challenging.

L2p.





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