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Any viable P/P tPvP build out there?


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#1 Jii

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:28 AM

Well I've done it all.

I've done the heart seeker spam. That quickly got boring.
I've done the rainbow bacon wings unicorn build. Very fun.
I've done the pistol whip. Boring.
I've done the back stab. Kinda fun.

Currently am running a P/D variation of the venom share builds.

But really the last weapon set to try is P/P and I have yet to see any builds discussing this.  Is it really just not viable?

#2 Scarlet_Blossom

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:45 PM

P/P and S/D are both not viable.

#3 stopwhiningsomuch

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:53 PM

I've seen a youtube video of a guy running p/p vamparic build so yeah here's an idea.

#4 Lowell

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 07:54 PM

Hi! I've been playing with this a little bit and I actually think it's kinda good: http://www.gw2build.....0.25.30.0.0.15

Heal and Elite are up to you, can swap roll or shadowstep for haste if you feel like it. It's very effective as far as bursting one target down from a distance (windows to mid on Kyhlo, from the ledge to graveyard on legacy, etc) goes, but I feel like a power ranger with Shortbow can do it better. At least, it's playable in my opinion! =)

#5 jeddahwe

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 08:19 PM

Try P/P and P/D you will immediately see how gimped P/P is.

#6 crowsnest bomber

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:23 AM

View PostScarlet_Blossom, on 03 October 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

P/P and S/D are both not viable.

posts like this make me laugh.... ignorance is bliss .  every weapon set has its own little tricks and suit different playstyes. SD is very solid and underrated. . . PP is a very good ranged single target dps.. it all depends on personal preference.. and if your a half skilled player, you can make any weapon set work

#7 Scarlet_Blossom

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:30 AM

View Postcrowsnest bomber, on 04 October 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

posts like this make me laugh.... ignorance is bliss .  every weapon set has its own little tricks and suit different playstyes. SD is very solid and underrated. . . PP is a very good ranged single target dps.. it all depends on personal preference.. and if your a half skilled player, you can make any weapon set work

Other classes just do the same things those two builds do better.

#8 jeddahwe

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:07 PM

P/P holds nothing to P/D even if as P/D all you do it auto attack and spam dagger throw its still better than P/P.

#9 crowsnest bomber

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:07 PM

View PostScarlet_Blossom, on 04 October 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:



Other classes just do the same things those two builds do better.

That's true... But if u say that,  you may as well say condition Thief's are worse than necros...sb Thief's are worse than rangers or lb warriors and sword Thief's are worse than engis for aoe... The thing is,  other classes don't have the stealth ,  the black powder,  the speed,  the dodging,  the mobility etc etc...so your point is highly flawed

Just because it's your opinion doesn't make it fact,  as that's what you were implying


#10 Kutsus

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:55 PM

A roaming thief has a very specific role in tPvP and it is not filled very well by either P/P or S/D. P/P is hurt badly by all of the reflect and retaliation abilities present, if you have SB for your second set you have no way to attack past reflection. S/D is hurt by the lack of high burst damage attacks. It's a great defensive weapon combo and I use it religiously in WvW, but not in tPVP.

It's hard to come up with an argument for a weapon combo other than D/D or S/P in an optimal roaming thief role for tournament play.

#11 crowsnest bomber

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 01:47 PM

Pp definitely has its limitations and I personally don't use it... But it is quite a good team support build with on dmd daze to stop stomps from a distance,  bp into blinding projectiles, vul stacking on enemies,  and u get pretty decent dmg with the 3 skill, so it could work

#12 Chroniccough

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:12 PM

a D/P build works great as roamer spec and i have even used p/d as a roamer. don't corn hole people into using only the gimmicky fotm builds cause those two builds are weak to my d/p build neither of them can hit me in a bp field or smokescreen or the signet blind plus a daze when i know they are about to pistol whip.

#13 Nibel

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:12 AM

I play PP / Sb and i win 1 VS 2 fight easily. Only Thief D/D glasscanon can beat me... if i dont evade :D .

#14 Dirame

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:48 AM

View PostScarlet_Blossom, on 03 October 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

P/P and S/D are both not viable.

Funny thing, someone used S/D on me and was doing ridiculous amounts of damage. I'm guessing he was quite glassy but... damn, it was painful.

Edited by Dirame, 07 October 2012 - 08:49 AM.


#15 Dirame

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:08 AM

View Postcrowsnest bomber, on 04 October 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

Pp definitely has its limitations and I personally don't use it... But it is quite a good team support build with on dmd daze to stop stomps from a distance,  bp into blinding projectiles, vul stacking on enemies,  and u get pretty decent dmg with the 3 skill, so it could work

Could work? It DOES work. The people who say P/P isn't viable are the people who just want to drop things instantly. P/P is sustained, not burst and lends itself to controlling the enemy like a boss. I personally run the Vamp build with P/P and P/D, it's pretty funny when you can out-heal a bleed stacker with 12 stacks on you.

#16 Webley

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:50 AM

I run P/P in WvW. They way the thief moves with S/B and P/P is great. Melee often will get you killed. P/P is more of a WvW build, and not for sPvP or tPvP

The maps in sPvP and tPvP just dont allow you to kite like you can on the WvW maps. and so you need stealth more in sPvP and mobility more in WvW

I call it the gun slinger, there can be a huge amount of burst from runes of air and Steal

10/30/0/20/10 (Using Mug and Thrill of the crime)

The gunslinger has one stealth button for a sneak attack and has good ini regen via "Roll of Init" and "Quick Recovery" from Acrobatics so you can keep those unloads going. You also get the minor trait from Trickery for another 3 initive

You can steal a blinding powder from rabbits to giving you another stealth/sneakattack in preperation

You also pop Thieves guild to secure the win.

If you ever want to leave a fight simply do the following. Hit roll of inititive, then withdraw, then Shadowstep away, then blinding powder (Healing will also give you 5sec swiftness from Runes, and Vigor will trigger allowing you to keep adding 2secs swiftness on top. You can then perform a steal on a critter shadowstepping you further away from the zerg and give you another 10sec swiftness from thrill of the crime. And Runes of Air will also give you 20% swiftness duration on top of all of those)

So if you ever find yourself deep in a zerg all alone you can quickly remove yourself

I stack beserker gear on everything and just have the armour pieces as Valkrye

Ive critted for 6k steals when opponent is under 50%, and My rune of Air also crit for 6k once (Got a screenshot) of the guy under 50%. That guy was a class cannon lvl80 thief. He died just from steal and Rune of air and a single unload.

With the amount of retreating skills you have there is not one class that can kill you. You can escape any build or any zerg. Does good damage to with fury on the steal, the fury again when he reaches 50% health

Build: http://gw2.luna-atra...p8p9nj8jrjrjsjs
(One slot left blank for you to decide. Add Rune of Air to Armour)

Edited by Webley, 08 October 2012 - 01:03 AM.


#17 Isms

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:18 PM

I run a P/P shortbow build that I'm very successful with. Most of the success has to do with teamwork and my experience as a roamer. You wont have the burst or raw survivability of other thieves and rangers, but your evasiveness and ability to ditch a battle and go elsewhere cant be matched. P/P happens to fit my playstyle so im very successful with it. But damn it takes a lot of dexterity. Ill record tonight and post later this week.

I just love it because it isn't gimmicky like every other thief build. It requires positioning and anticipation/evasiveness.

#18 Larynx

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:27 PM

View PostScarlet_Blossom, on 03 October 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

P/P and S/D are both not viable.

Yes, please keep telling people that.

#19 Kharpalo

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:19 PM

S/D has the daze build, and that's kinda a viable.

P/P is thrash both in pvp and in pve. The kit is just not on par with any other set the thief has.

#20 jeddahwe

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:56 PM

Think of the class and how it works, look at for example C&D and what it adds.  As a Pistol main hand you want to be going into stealth as much as possible to get the #1 finisher which also means you blind your target if you had a dagger in the off hand and place 3 stacks of Vulnerability on them while doing huge damage.

Think about that, to set up your burst not only do you stealth -which can do great stuff like heal, remove conditions, regen initiative and other stuff- but blind your target.  Whether that's PvE or PvP you are doing some really cool stuff.

Compare that to P/P, what exactly are you doing that is even comparable to that?  You can't spam blind and unload at the same time and you won't be going in and out of stealth either every x sec!

If some one could explain to me how P/P works I'll be thankful, maybe I completely missed something?

Edit:  As for Vulnerability P/D also has it with C&D!

Edited by jeddahwe, 10 October 2012 - 02:09 PM.


#21 Ashanor

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 02:51 AM

Quote

The maps in sPvP and tPvP just dont allow you to kite like you can on the WvW maps. and so you need stealth more in sPvP and mobility more in WvW

I can't agree about P/P in sPvP. I won't comment on tPvP since I don't bother with it all that much. I use 25 30 0 15 0 with hide in shadows, shadowstep, shadow refuge, and alternate between a few on my third utility depending on what I want to do (shadow trap, ambush trap, etc). I know that P/P isn't up to par exactly, but it isn't as horrible as people make it out to be. I use scholar runes with sigil of air and force. I chose Acrobatics for the vigor on heal, swiftness on dodge, and endurance back on dodge.

Don't get me wrong. P/P does need a little help. I would personally speed up Unload a small amount so it isn't so easy to dodge and do something with Body Shot since it is absolutely worthless to use and lasts for such a short time. You are better off spending an extra intitative on another Unload than wasting your time on and initiative on Body Shot. Not sure what I would do with it. Probably some extra control or a way to get into stealth easier. Obviously pistol 1 is a bit confused as well, since it is like half direct damage half condition damage or something. I would also lower the cost of Unload from 5 to 4.

Edited by Ashanor, 13 October 2012 - 03:03 AM.


#22 Terminator Blyxx

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 07:25 AM

View PostIsms, on 08 October 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

I run a P/P shortbow build that I'm very successful with. Most of the success has to do with teamwork and my experience as a roamer. You wont have the burst or raw survivability of other thieves and rangers, but your evasiveness and ability to ditch a battle and go elsewhere cant be matched. P/P happens to fit my playstyle so im very successful with it. But damn it takes a lot of dexterity. Ill record tonight and post later this week.

I just love it because it isn't gimmicky like every other thief build. It requires positioning and anticipation/evasiveness.

Where's dat vid?  I've been playing around with a P/P build for the fun and uniqueness of it.  I normally main an engineer and the majority of the thieves I've run into are D/D, P/D, or S/D.  I've been looking for discussions and vids on P/P but haven't found much.  This is the best vid I've seen so far.

  

#23 Isms

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:28 AM

View PostTerminator Blyxx, on 02 November 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

Where's dat vid?  I've been playing around with a P/P build for the fun and uniqueness of it.  I normally main an engineer and the majority of the thieves I've run into are D/D, P/D, or S/D.  I've been looking for discussions and vids on P/P but haven't found much.  This is the best vid I've seen so far.

  

The build you are posting above seems to have an identity problem. The idea behind a ranged thief in this game is to stay out of trouble and keep up sustained damage. He is trying to make a burst build for a ranged class. If you are wanting to burst, might as well go into melee range where you deal way more dmg and can still get out safely once you're done.

Sorry i didn't make a video. I used to roam as a ranger, but moved to thief P/P because our team was already built around having a ranged roamer that could stay alive well and thief roamed quicker than rangers. Honestly, we were such a good team that I didn't realize how weak P/P was until i branched out of that build, and never looked back. It's still a viable build if you play it well, but it runs into brick walls when you have to kill a bunker guardian. I believe the way that toughness mitigates dmg in this game keeps unload from dealing any bit of damage to high armor bunkers, even with berserkers setup. The truth is, the Shortbow was stronger than P/P, even it's AOE did more single target so I just used that. However; SB has been nerfed to oblivion so perhaps someday I'll move back to it. Right now i'm running a shortbow condi build that is very strong, but I won't share it with anyone :). Here's what I ran in tourny with P/P back in the day though.  It's pretty cookie-cutter, but it's all about how you play it.

http://gw2skills.net...GbNuak1ssYAxMCA - for damage dealing, mostly just stay in P/P for single target, Shortbow for roaming and AOE. use pistols for stomping "pistol 5," and save teammates with "4". Steal is a great way to burst someone down instantly before they get their heal off.

http://gw2skills.net...GbNuak1ssYAxMCA - for most sustained damage. This build I used when I new my main point to look after was mid, meaning long term fights where there will always be bunkers. This build makes sure to have plenty of ways to regen ini and vigor both. You'll have a bit less pistol damage, but the idea is to use that and shortbow both. Make sure to always keep poison fields spread out because it applies weakness and makes long fights shorter for the other team.

Both of these builds are gonna be quite low in damage compared to the alternatives, and neither are in the upper class of thief builds. but you'll be very difficult to catch once you learn the ropes.. But if your team needs a ranged power roamer, this works great.  LEARN THE TELEPORT SPOTS ON THE MAP. This is the only reason thief outshines warrior/ranger as a roamer. Use them during combat and stay out of reach. Don't waste time trying to kill guardian's 1v1, you're here to finish off the weaker classes, or move on.

If i feel adventurous, i'll drop my condi build and play this for a paid later this week and make a video anyways :). (ok, maybe just a freebie).

Edited by Isms, 18 November 2012 - 03:33 AM.


#24 SpelignErrir

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:54 PM

In random spvp, I completely wreck with P/P. I can't say anything about tpvp though.

#25 crowsnest bomber

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:56 AM

ive always felt P/P is underwhelming and i gave up on it very early.

But if you land all the hits, it has the same damage as backstab so there is definately something to work with there. Im gunna try to work on a build and report back.. im thinking leaching venom/might stacking build might work

#26 SpelignErrir

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:17 AM

View Postcrowsnest bomber, on 20 November 2012 - 02:56 AM, said:

ive always felt P/P is underwhelming and i gave up on it very early.

But if you land all the hits, it has the same damage as backstab so there is definately something to work with there. Im gunna try to work on a build and report back.. im thinking leaching venom/might stacking build might work

It's really easy to land the hits. Devourer venom and haste, spam 3. People die.

#27 Symbiont

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:24 PM

i've played my "stealthy gunner build" for a long time before recently switching to p/d.

the way i play this build is shut-down casters with head-shot, apply black powder to nullify melee attacks. when the opponent's team composition has more tanky players, i will use caltrops instead of blinding powder. and all the while make opponents bleed.

i have great ways to go into stealth for survivability or use my offensive stealth-skill; sneak attacks and apply a stack of bleeds by either using steal, blinding powder, shadow refuge, blinding tuft when stealing a thief and instinctual response. and unload on your opponent when out of stealth ;)

playing this build require you to read your opponents; when they try to cast a skill for heals or offensively, you just interrupt them and shut them down.

u use d/d as my secondary weapon set to fill in my roamer role, i use hearts seeker and dodge with swiftness buff to go from a to b faster.

View Postjeddahwe, on 10 October 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

If some one could explain to me how P/P works I'll be thankful, maybe I completely missed something?

as i have demonstrated above, i use stealth skills that don't require initiatives. i can use sneak attack for zero-initiatives in many ways and after that i can choose to spend my resources on unload, blinds or interrupts.

also what i do when i got my secondary d/d weapon set equipped, i can use CnD, swap to p/p for yet another sneak attack.

View PostAshanor, on 13 October 2012 - 02:51 AM, said:

I would personally speed up Unload a small amount so it isn't so easy to dodge

i wouldn't mind the change of unload so that the initial shot will hold the most damage following by pop-shots.

View PostIsms, on 18 November 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

It's still a viable build if you play it well, but it runs into brick walls when you have to kill a bunker guardian.

still doable by stripping their protective boons from them with bountiful theft and use caltrops. the most fun is going against these guys since you can shut them down when they try to use their elite or any other heal abilities.

Edited by Symbiont, 20 November 2012 - 01:46 PM.


#28 crowsnest bomber

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:19 PM

Just tried p/p as full glass cannon with might on signets trait and haste.. U completely wreck ppl.. Other glass cannons go down as quick as a burst backstab build.. Ie 3seconds

Biggest problem is that I died too easily as I had no defensive abilities or toughness, it was my first go at p/p for about 15 ranks so I obviously didn't perform as well as I could


I honestly think p/p is underrated and is now my new secondary weapon set, with s/d

Edited by crowsnest bomber, 20 November 2012 - 04:20 PM.


#29 Siva

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 04:38 AM

Throws away your Berserker's Amulet and pick up a Carrion's Amulet and learn how to play with it and you will realize how versatile P/P really is.

#30 Invoky

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:19 AM

View PostSiva, on 24 November 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:

Throws away your Berserker's Amulet and pick up a Carrion's Amulet and learn how to play with it and you will realize how versatile P/P really is.

Why Carrion? I understand that you want to drop berserk for better survival, but why not Knight?

If you are going to say No.1 is bleed for p/p, than why not just use p/d?




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