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Other options than greatsword. Ranged?

greatsword scepter staff ranged guardian

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#1 Lapis

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:47 PM

Hi,
I am over 60 lvl with my Necro and I am looking for some alt with different playstyle for occasional play to experience something a bit different. I have level 10 guardian and it is OK to play, but it seems to be a bit boring to do everything only with a greatsword. Are there any other options of weapons usable for soloing? Like hammer - what is it good for? I know that mace+focus is good for defensive play, like soloing veterans... But what other viable options are there?
What about ranged damage - is it usable with Scepter/Focus as Guardian, or with Staff? I found basic scepter attack (Orb of Wrath) quite poor, because those flying orbs don't hit the target when it is moving...is it a bug? Is it possible to play a bit mage style with Guardian in that way?

Edited by Lapis, 03 October 2012 - 12:49 PM.


#2 Cevilo

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:49 PM

with my ranged set up I went scepter + torch. usually do 3 to snare 2 to do damage then 5 for the flame attack. I spent 1-80 using sword and shield/scepter and Torch pretty much just because it fits my fantasy preference and I had no trouble leveling getting through story, and did it all on my own except the dungeons of course. but in terms of PvE GS is pretty much the best. Monsters don't generally move or dodge, so the 5,2,3 combo DPS is pretty much unmatched, but any weapon set will get you through.

#3 AEnesidem

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:59 PM

All weapon sets are viable. And you will even end up using the scepter and staff setups a lot in dungeons. GS is just the fastest weapon that's all. When you want to rush through areas and level fast just take your greatsword and start mowing. If you want more fun, take any weapon you wnat and you will be ok.

#4 Jobuu

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 03:02 PM

i liked scepter/torch as well for a good offensive set. my offset for defense was mace/focus - which is also kinda offensive if you lead with the shield pop, intervention port to the mob, switch to aoe scepter and breathe fire on everything.

IMO the guardian is overpowered and boring which is why it's not my main anymore

Edited by Jobuu, 03 October 2012 - 03:04 PM.


#5 zosek

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:50 PM

Personally i use hammer only in pvp. In pve i find myself using only skills 1 and 2, and if the time and place is right maybe 3,4,5. I'm always running GS/staff build. Right now i changed from staff to scepter+torch combo, just because i bought big ass scepter (emberglow). I must say i dont like it one bit. The damage is inferior to the one with gs, which i thought it would not be. I think i'll just switch back to gs+staff. With staff you get another swiftness skill, great healing skill +might and that's all i need.

Right now i dont like the fact that arenanet said that you will be able to do the same dmg with ranged as you do with melee and vice versa. I tried guardian, and the dmg with ranged is just not the same, i tried warrior, and again, the damage is just not the same.

#6 indure

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:04 PM

View Postzosek, on 03 October 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

Right now i dont like the fact that arenanet said that you will be able to do the same dmg with ranged as you do with melee and vice versa. I tried guardian, and the dmg with ranged is just not the same, i tried warrior, and again, the damage is just not the same.

Range damage should always be inferior to melee damage. Range damage can be use pretty consistently with little to no breaks in damage output. While melee has many breaks due to more dodging, more time to switch targets and more time needed to recuperate and wait for defensive cooldowns. Also melee has a higher chance of gaining aggro, leading to more overall damage and a need to spec heavier in defensive attributes compared to range. To offset melee's disadvantage they output higher damage so in the long run the overall DPS will be somewhat equivalent.

#7 Daichu

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:23 PM

Lately I've been running around with a staff on my Guardian as I finally got an updated on much closer to my level and its actually pretty fun for PvE (for me anyways).

Staff is great for tagging DE mobs and to round up a nice group of mobs, then I switch to hammer and its usually #1, #2 and done.

Been using a hammer now as well and its been a nice change from GS too.

#8 Snarvid

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:58 PM

Sword/focus is pretty solid if you don't want to go quite as defensive as mace/focus.  Sword autoattack is very nice for DPS (good cone in front of you and 3rd hit usually hitsx3 leading to faster VoJ procs), it's blind cools down in half the time of GS's (pre GS trait), and it's 3rd attack nullifies ranged attacks against you while you're channeling.  Focus adds a bouncing blind/regen and a x3 block.  A solid set - better defenses than GS, especially against single target, but relatively lacking in AoE and doesn't have the pull to bunch up enemies.

For dungeons, Scepter/torch works well as your "I'm scared of melee with you" set.  5 is self explanatory, and you can choose between using your torch 4 to toss Zealot's Fire or activating, switching to Sword/Focus, and closing in with a flashing blade.

Edited by Snarvid, 03 October 2012 - 06:02 PM.


#9 draxynnic

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:07 AM

Amusingly, I tend to use the reverse of Snarvid's sets. Sceptre/focus for 'I don't want to be in melee right now' - RoJ has good range, and if you're in a 'melee is bad' situation that's generally when you want to raise the shield (especially good if the reason you don't want to be in melee is because they have a disable-then-kill combination - you can pop the shield when disabled, so you can protect yourself from the followup) and that's also when the blind from RoJ is particularly useful. Torch goes well in melee because you get the benefit of initiating ZF as well as throwing the fireball (the way it's balanced now, I don't think there's a good reason not to throw the fireball) and CF is probably at its most effective either in melee, or backing off from melee before switching to sceptre.

Comboing sword, sceptre, focus and torch in general seems to be a good set, though.
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#10 Lapis

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:29 AM

Interesting comments.
However, how is it with scepter - why Orb of Wrath (basic attack) misses the target when it is moving? Is it by design, or is it some kind of bug? I tried to use scepter/focus set in event to kill a veteran mob, but scepter was missing almost all the time, as the veteran troll was still moving to catch some players in melee. I ended up only with silver reward even when I was there from beginning of the fight. That is a bit disappointing....
If you are using Staff as a second weapon in addition to GS, in which occasions are you switching to it? I found it useful while running to use swiftness, but I didn't use it in combat much yet (if I want to switch from GS just for healing ability, I need to wait a long time until I can switch back to GS).

#11 Lilith Tremere

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:22 AM

Well, O'm playing guaridans since day 1 of Head Start so i had, i think, quite enough time to become familar with the profession. I've tried out every weapon combination and through lvls 70-80 lots of different builds.

I salvaged my greatsowrd at lvl 30-something. Even though i was planning to play with a GS pre-release, I've learned post, that It doesn't suit me and my playstyle. Range problems i will explain later. I hate Whirling Wrath, even though it has projectiles, its only viable at the melee range. but the worst thing is to effectively use GS, You should spec in Zeal [power] line, which is without the doubt THE WORST of all guardians trait lines.

Like a lot of people I wasnt quite sure if guaridan with her low health will be viable as a melee in dungeons. it was horrifying at the begining because i did not have any vitality/thoughness and i was being one shot.

Now im running with 1h sword + torch / hammer combo, 10/30/30/0/0 spec, and combination of exotic Valkyrie's and Knight's gear.

First weapon set, talented, gives me 51% crit chance and fantastic burst. Becouse of talents and runes i have +25% dmg to burning targets. So usual dungeon rotation is following:
Zealot's Flame [sets u on fire] --> Judg's Intervention [teleport u to the target and sets it on fire + one tick from ZF] --> Zealot's Fire [hard hitter that also set your target on fire - these abilities + passive effect from Virtue of Justice will make sure your target is burning for the entire burst's time] --> Zealot's Defence [quick burst, u have to remain stationary so its a good idea to use Flashing Blade to blind your target] --> Purging  Flames [powerfull but slower ability but u dont have to stand still, so its performed as last].
After this u have only auto-attack but we have powerfull AA so it doesnt metter. U can always swith to hammer. The only actuall drawback is lack of combo fields and finishers.

Second set: hammer - The Lifesaver. Powerfull AoE with every attack 1 and 2, symbol with protection implemented in chain, aoe combo with retaliation [1+1+1+2], immobilize and ring of warding [u can trap enemy for a few seconds or protect yourself from the group of enemies]. There is nothing more to say, really,  1+1+1+2 --> 1+1+1 --> 1+1+1+2 for the rotation, rest is situational.

As for survivability, there can be some problems in dungeons but if zou are on your toes you will be fine and u will have LOADS OF FUN with this set and build.

#12 Lapis

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:57 PM

View PostLilith Tremere, on 04 October 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

Now im running with 1h sword + torch / hammer combo, 10/30/30/0/0 spec, and combination of exotic Valkyrie's and Knight's gear.

Hmm, that looks like an interesting build, but is it viable also for leveling? On early levels, there is not much from traits yet and also sigils are not so good to make so good use of burning...

#13 Lilith Tremere

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 01:35 PM

View PostLapis, on 04 October 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

Hmm, that looks like an interesting build, but is it viable also for leveling? On early levels, there is not much from traits yet and also sigils are not so good to make so good use of burning...

I was lvling with 10/30/0/0/30 with rampage gear [power, precision, condition dmg], couse during lvling u want to kill things as quickly as possible and AoE burning + Superior Sigil of Fire [I'm using it currently in both weapon sets] was great to do it. U just had to pull lots of mobs and literally burnt them down.

But I prefer spec i have now. 1st of all more survivability. 2nd of all they have to buff Virtues tait line couse at this moment its not to viable for offensive builds [to much crap u don need]. If it was better i would be currently speced in them and condition dmg.

For lvling [if u want to do it WoWs way, as quick as possible] go for berserker or rampager gear, sword+torch for strong targets, hammer for AoE and control and u will go through your foes like a meatgrinder goes through a chicken breast. Spec and gear would depend on if u prefer streight up dmg or conditions.

If u want to take your time and enjoy leveling then u can go fo anything u want.

I forgot to mention, wierdly GS has 130 [classing melee] range and sword has 150, i know its not much but belive me u can tell the difference.

And one more thing buring is single most powerful condtion it gets more from condition dmg and lvl then any other condition [not couting stacking bleeds].

I'd go for folowing
1st book go for zeal and radiance lines just for sheer stats cuz u dont have much at the lower lvls from the gear, then place either in valor or virtues.

When u get 2nd book, go for 10 zeal just to get +10% dmg to burning targets and go for radiance. Rest is up to your play style, Virtues if u want condtions, Valor if u prefer straight up crits.

Edited by Lilith Tremere, 04 October 2012 - 01:41 PM.


#14 ZCKS

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:15 PM

View PostLapis, on 04 October 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

Interesting comments.
However, how is it with scepter - why Orb of Wrath (basic attack) misses the target when it is moving? Is it by design, or is it some kind of bug? I tried to use scepter/focus set in event to kill a veteran mob, but scepter was missing almost all the time, as the veteran troll was still moving to catch some players in melee. I ended up only with silver reward even when I was there from beginning of the fight. That is a bit disappointing....
If you are using Staff as a second weapon in addition to GS, in which occasions are you switching to it? I found it useful while running to use swiftness, but I didn't use it in combat much yet (if I want to switch from GS just for healing ability, I need to wait a long time until I can switch back to GS).

Sadly it seems to be intended as people have complained about it since beta & arena.net has not changed it.

Why they built the #1 attack on the scepter this way IDK, but it's beyond idiotic & annoying because in PVP players can actually avoid the orbs much of the time if they know how due to how slow they move.

Really if there were another option for offensive ranged combat I doubt many people would use the scepter..... unless they managed to make the other option worse.

#15 draxynnic

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 01:53 AM

In fact, they actually lowered the orb speed in one update... :huh:

The extra sword range is possibly legacy - older versions of Sword of Wrath had the glow effect being much more obvious and extending well beyond the blade itself, visually explaining the extra range. It got toned down along with all the other graphics that got toned down, but I'd assume they figure the extra reach is still appropriate for the weapon.
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#16 Lapis

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:24 AM

About Orb of Wrath - is it the only ranged spell used as base attack that doesn't hit moving targetes, or every class has some? I didn't notice any skill doing that with my Necro - Necrotic Grasp from Staff is a flying projectile and I think it always hits the target, and Life Blast too...
I don't mind that orb flies slowly, but it should follow the target, not just fly straight and miss it...

#17 turbo234

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:29 AM

Mace is aweful in just about every scenario. Scepter is decent in group events/dungeons giving you a ranged option. Staff is alright from time to time. Sword is a great option, decent damage output and skills and gives you the option to hold a shield or focus.

basically, never use torch or mace.

#18 ZCKS

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:43 PM

View PostLapis, on 05 October 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

About Orb of Wrath - is it the only ranged spell used as base attack that doesn't hit moving targetes, or every class has some? I didn't notice any skill doing that with my Necro - Necrotic Grasp from Staff is a flying projectile and I think it always hits the target, and Life Blast too...
I don't mind that orb flies slowly, but it should follow the target, not just fly straight and miss it...

Generally speaking the other professions don't have this problem because their projectile attacks move fast enough that they will hit the target at any range at 1200 or less unless the target is under the effects of a dodge roll.





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