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S/P V.S. DB spam (Short and General)

thief death blossom black powder

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#1 Talosmygod

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:58 AM

First off I'd like to give credit to Minion and his build (http://www.guildwars...le-thief-build/). This will be the DB build I am referencing. Secondly, this post is based off of my own experiences, and I recommend trying both out for yourself.

Thirdly? the S/P build I like...(I will speak more indepth about this, for all I know this is my build, but I don't know.)
http://www.guildhead...Tvooxfp9MmRbccs (use with Cleric's gear)

With Minion's build I found that I could put out great dps, and have great survivability, But you have to use your signets as often as possible, and it's not as stable during waves when they come in short burst. You also run a higher risk of being knocked down during your non-DB time, and have less room for error. So, if you're more of a hardcore player this build would be perfect for you.
With the S/P build I found that the dps is good, but the survivability is amazing. I definitely believe that Minion's build does more damage, but you have to work a lot harder to get it out whilst surviving (if you're not being attacked you're fine). When the going is easy with the S/P build just sit back and use pistol whip, when the going gets rough slap down Black Powder, and if you make an error use a venom or Shadow Refuge as an oh-shit button. This build is much better for "lazy" players, however, the laziness comes with a price...you pretty much have to stand still for it to work well.

In conclusion, Minion's build allows superior dps, great survivabilitly, and high funtionality in PvP, but is very active (skill usage wise and attention wise) and has little room for error. The S/P build allows good dps, superior survivability, and offers wiggle room for errors, but you have to stay stationary, thus rendering it useless in PvP...and again this is from my experience, and I encourage you to try both builds for yourself.

#2 Kizzim

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:32 PM

I like you understand the power of the s/p for PVE leveling, d/d to me only becomes viable at later levels and allows for mob abuse against you unless you are really careful. I believe that in majority of the situations you find yourself in PVE s/p can allow you to outdamage d/d and do well in both heart leveling and in world events, even better than d/d in some circumstances. We all know in events d/d is atrocious and often players find themselves trying to stack bleeds with other players and ruining DPS. I respect your s/p venom build, however I believe it forsakes too much DPS for what appears to be healing through venoms. Here is mine, maximized to take advantage of sword/pistol, players could gear their characters as glass cannons, but with pistol offhand and pistol whip still provide amazing survavibility. You can either use the build as is with 15 points into deadly arts for weaken or remove weaken and place it into trickery and take something like initial strike. The initiative skills merely make sure you are topped off and have plenty to give the damage bonuses. Strong gear would be what you should aim for:

http://gw2skills.net...GbNuak1sKYMyECA

#3 Oronyx

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:52 PM

How about if this were aimed at WvW and dungeons? Would you use full berserkers? or would you mix it up with Knights/Valkyrie?

#4 Talosmygod

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 03:06 AM

Personally, I like having healing power so that I heal for more while using pistol whip, and so I can remain tanking during dungeons, however I believe both Knights and Valkyrie would suffice.

P.S. I try to use this build as more of a thief-gone-support build.

Edited by Talosmygod, 23 October 2012 - 03:08 AM.


#5 atomicmew

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 10:27 AM

S/P has its uses, for blind spam, for stunning in pvp.  For general PvE, D/D is far superior, I just don't understand how anyone can say otherwise.LDB is faster than PW and does more damage.  The evade + mobility of DB is superior to just evade for PW, so you don't have to waste your initiative on blind spam in situations where you'd need to with S/P.  DB also has a bigger AoE than PW.  Single target damage for D/D is also way, way higher.

Edited by atomicmew, 23 October 2012 - 10:28 AM.


#6 Balala

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 01:20 PM

View Postatomicmew, on 23 October 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

S/P has its uses, for blind spam, for stunning in pvp.  For general PvE, D/D is far superior, I just don't understand how anyone can say otherwise.LDB is faster than PW and does more damage.  The evade + mobility of DB is superior to just evade for PW, so you don't have to waste your initiative on blind spam in situations where you'd need to with S/P.  DB also has a bigger AoE than PW.  Single target damage for D/D is also way, way higher.

You simple cant maintain DB all the time. You cant have evade all the time.

#7 Capn_Crass

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 02:48 PM

View Postatomicmew, on 23 October 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

For general PvE, D/D is far superior, I just don't understand how anyone can say otherwise.

Are you defining "general PvE" as "solo content only"? D/D is great in its role, but it offers no group support. S/P isn't my favorite by a longshot, but it's more supportive than D/D.

#8 Elan

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 06:09 PM

http://gw2skills.net...GbNuak1soYMysAA

This is a fairly close approximation to the setup I have in WvW (and in PvE I just change up my 3ed utility to refuge or caltrops).  I find using this with Sword/Pistol does allow for survivability out the yin yang in both PvE and WvW (given, in the latter case, you're smart about when to engage).  The damage output is still incredibly high even post PW nerf, but the PW attack is really situational.  A lot of the time you're better off going with your auto attack and blinding powder, using 2 to control and 4 to interrupt as needed.  Devourer Venom->Pistol Whip is really just for ambushes.

The damage is absolutely fantastic, however, in both PvE and WvW, just not instant.  It's heavy consistent damage that plays up with the integrated survivability of the sword pistol combo, as opposed to sudden bursts of pain.  The massive advantage here that it affords is that you never need to fully commit to a fight, and if you can't get an initial attack off you are still a significant threat beyond the first 2 seconds of a fight.  You can regularly get 5k crits on skill 1-1 with it, unbuffed, for instance - though what I cannot replicate on that builder is the 104% crit damage boost I have.  On 5 enemies in front of you.  Simultaneously.  


Plus, with that trait setup, you are free to switch to shortbow and lay down perma-weakness on bosses or waves of NPC mobs which is powerful both in control and support, as well as buff party members with untargeted STEAL triggers.

Overall, it makes for a versatile configuration that aids both you and your allies.  Gives you a huge toolbox to work with.

Edited by Elan, 24 October 2012 - 06:12 PM.


#9 atomicmew

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:11 PM

View PostCapn_Crass, on 23 October 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Are you defining "general PvE" as "solo content only"? D/D is great in its role, but it offers no group support. S/P isn't my favorite by a longshot, but it's more supportive than D/D.
Yeah I just mean explorables and missions.  Not necessarily solo, because even in group, people generally aren't going to need you to spam blind.

For dungeons S/P,  I'd say they're both viable here, but sometimes the high burst DPS you get from D/D is the better option.




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