[Whisper]

As we know the Sylvari was to be called the Sidhe in their early development, they had horns and looked much akin to their Cousin of the same name in Irish myth. Later on the appearance was changed drastically, possibly because Arena Net thought the new look was more appealing, and they were renamed the Sylvari.

And here not long ago Mordakai posted a thread called Sylvari Wyld Hunt.
Wyld Hunt or Wild hunt as it’s called originate from countries all over Europe Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Germany, England…
Each Country with its own version.

In Scandinavia the wild hunt was hosted by the Norse gods.
While in other countries such as Brittan and Ireland the host was mainly fae or other supernatural beings.

In general the wild hunt was used to explain things such as thunder. It was also meant to be a warning of death in some cases
(The very presence of the hunt was fear inspiring, and one was to cover your face and ears in order to prevent yourself to become a witness to the hunt thereby becoming prey of the hunt).

Also if a mortal happened to come in the way of the wild hunt the riders would drag the mortal to the land of the dead.

Preys of the wild hunt were usually trolls, old elves or Jöttuns.
As said the Wild Hunt differ from each country…
Each having different hosts and this is where I want to turn my eyes to
In the Irish version of the Wild Hunt, the Aes Sidhe (Sidhe Nobility)
ride out from their Sidhe Mounts on the eves of the four great fire festivals, Samhain, Oimelc, Beltane and Lughnasadh.
This was later reenacted in the poem “The Hosting of the Sidhe”
by William Butler Yeats
As you can see the Sidhe (Faeries in general or faerie mounts in some cases) were also a part of these phenomenons.
Therefore I think we can be sure that the Sylvari has its roots in
Irish Faerie lore.
In the concept art that was posted today/yesterday we had this:



The picture is called summoned And shows what seems to be a corrupted Sylvari.
In the same batch of concept art this picture was also included which as Konig mentioned

Konig Des Todes said:

http://www.guildwars...ildwars2-26.jpg
Filename: Sylvari winter

Is named “SylvariWinter”

And now comes the reason why I have dragged you into reading all this
(if you actually did bother to read all of my nonsense that is :P).
Although the Sylvari may have changed in appearance
it’s Inspiration has not been changed.
In other words I think that Sylvari is still based on the Sidhe of Irish folklore.

And by looking on the name of that new concept art,
it makes me think that like the faeries the Sylvari is separated into courts.

In Irish mythology there are two main courts of the fae: The Seelie and The Unseelie court.
One of them the Seelie is what can be considered the court of the playful, good hearted and friendly fae.

While the Unseelie is the court of the malicious, brutal and remorseless fae.

If the Sylvari does indeed follow the Irish mythology (which is what I have tried to conclude throughout the thread hence all the Mythological references.)
My guess is that there are four or two courts either:

Court of Spring, Court of Summer, Court of Autumn and Court of Winter

Summer and winter being main courts, and Spring being a
sub court to Summer, and Autumn being sub court to Winter.
Or two courts:

The Court of Summer and the Court of Winter

Summer representing The Seelie court and Winter representing the
Unseelie court.
Summer Sylvari would be Sylvari in general,
while Winter Sylvari would be the so called splinter group
(the Sylvari on the summoned art).
This is my theory that the Sylvari are based on Irish myth rather than Greek as Konig suggested:

Konig Des Todes said:

Torahs, Qurans, Bible, and Apocrypha hunting. Go go go.

Just to note: The Norn and 90% of the things around them in EN (dunno if this will continue in GW2) are based off of Norse Mythology (The Norn are the Norse version of the three sister goddesses of Fate, Jotun are "Frost Giants", Fenrir is the wolf-son of Loki and who eats Odin at Ragnarok, Jormundu [the random-popup warrior wurm boss in EN] is the snake-son of Loki who kills Thor at Ragnarok, and Drakkar is norse for Dragon).

Sylvari seems to be based off of Latin, but is similar to Dryads - which is from Greek Mythology.

Charr seems to have Mongul influences.

It is possible the Norn will continue with a Norse theme, Sylvari will go with a Greek/Latin theme, and Charr will continue with a Mongul theme.

With all this, and there is more known, we can easily find various past and possible future influences on GW Lore, and as Lord said, we may be able to predict future GW lore.

What are your thoughts on this?

Now to take a course in how to write threads that are layout wise pleasant to read :P

Edited by Gmr Leon, 29 August 2009 - 12:06 AM.
Summoned concept art wasn't appearing (for me at least.) Fixed it for you.

[ShadowedSin]

Not bad but you're using some discrepencies.

The true spelling of the courts is Unseleighe and Seleighe.

The meanings are the Blessed and the Unblessed.

In Irish folklore the Fairies are in fact the demoralized Tuatha De Danann who were defeated with the coming of the Sons of Miles. They lost Ireland and were driven in to the otherworld which exists beneath the Fairy Mounds.

Also, the conception of Winter, Summer, Spring and Fall courts is a more recent invention by modern fairy lore from what I know. The best way to put is that the Fair Folk dwell in a land which the Irish call the Otherworld, which I believe from what I learned in Conemara is called Altear.

Generally the Unseleigh also were known as the Court of Nightmare. They were known for riding at night and hunting mortals. I did a little wiki search and Wiki answers mentions that the Unseleighe were said to ride during storms.

Edited by ShadowedSin, 28 August 2009 - 10:51 PM.

[The Narrator]

Wasnt the original Utopia race from which Sylvari came called Sidhe?

[ShadowedSin]

Nodakim said:

Wasnt the original Utopia race from which Sylvari came called Sidhe?

Yup, and just because it looks strange Sidhe is pronounced Shee.

Modern Irish spelling of the word is Siog, Shee oog.

Edited by ShadowedSin, 28 August 2009 - 11:02 PM.

[Whisper]

ShadowedSin said:

Yup, and just because it looks strange Sidhe is pronounced Shee.

Modern Irish spelling of the word is Siog, Shee oog.

Heh your much more into faerie lore than i am ^^ Got some reading material you can suggest ?

[ShadowedSin]

I could dig through a few, it's more of I'm into Irish Mythology. Which Fairy Lore is taken from.

Perhaps they will attach the season concept to the Sylvari, but then again. They were born in the Maguuma jungle right? Unless it's a temperate climate one, I don't see that happening necessarily. Perhaps the fairy connection is the nature connection.

[Sha Noran]

Not a bad theory at all mate but uh... did I miss a big discussion eliminating the very obvious possibility that the Sylvari are just an excuse to have Elves in Guild Wars?

[ShadowedSin]

Sha Noran said:

Not a bad theory at all mate but uh... did I miss a big discussion eliminating the very obvious possibility that the Sylvari are just an excuse to have Elves in Guild Wars?

They aren't elves that's the thing. Nor were the Sidhe of Irish legend. And pointed ears does not equate elf. Tolkien never wrote in his books that any of his Quendi had pointed ears. He said they had sharp ears but used it as a description of their abilities for hearing things.

Whisper said:

Heh your much more into faerie lore than i am ^^ Got some reading material you can suggest ?

Just to play off something whisper.

Fairy's in some cases are attached to dreams in a way, and if I remember correctly the Unseleighe were seen as those of Nightmare.

Perhaps the Dream of dreams is what is leading to the corruption or factioning. Perhaps the supposed counter factions within the Sylvari are related to Nightmare in some form.

"Sylvari GW2 Entry" said:

However, concealed within the Dream of Dreams are nightmares, something which the Sylvari do not yet understand. Though they began as a unified race, groups of Sylvari have arisen, challenging their current way of life.

[jayson]

Seeing that picture of the male Sylvari was exactly what I was hoping to see design wise. That style got completely away from the elf look and made the Sylvari stand on it's own. To me that creature is not so much one with the forest, as opposed to actually being the forest come to life. Anet if you're reading this, please consider pushing the unique look of that male Sylvari for both sexes!

[Konig Des Todes]

Whisper said:

As we know the Sylvari was to be called the Sidhe in their early development

Whisper said:

Therefore I think we can be sure that the Sylvari has its roots in Irish Faerie lore.

This is speculation, not known. Sidhe was the name of a new race to be introduced in Utopia. Not as a "new to the world" but "new to lore."

There may be no connection at all. As such, I disagree and say we cannot be sure yet. There may be a connection, there may not be. The only connection could just be "Ok, let's not do the Sidhe idea, but I say we should have some plant-race in GW2. Any ideas?" "How about something based off of <insert plant creature from mytholgy here>?"

Whisper said:

And by looking on the name of that new concept art,
it makes me think that like the faeries the Sylvari is separated into courts.

In Irish mythology there are two main courts of the fae: The Seelie and The Unseelie court.
One of them the Seelie is what can be considered the court of the playful, good hearted and friendly fae.

While the Unseelie is the court of the malicious, brutal and remorseless fae.

The two courts does seem to match the Sylvari and their "splinter groups" - from what little information we have.

Whisper said:

If the Sylvari does indeed follow the Irish mythology (which is what I have tried to conclude throughout the thread hence all the Mythological references.)
My guess is that there are four or two courts either:

Court of Spring, Court of Summer, Court of Autumn and Court of Winter

Summer and winter being main courts, and Spring being a
sub court to Summer, and Autumn being sub court to Winter.
Or two courts:

The Court of Summer and the Court of Winter

Summer representing The Seelie court and Winter representing the
Unseelie court.
Summer Sylvari would be Sylvari in general,
while Winter Sylvari would be the so called splinter group
(the Sylvari on the summoned art).

I'd go the other way around with the Summer/Winter thing. The "Summoned" concept art would be the "Unseleighe" court, but the concept art of what looks to be the main Sylvari in the trailer with white "hair" and a green dress is labeled as "SylvariWinter" - and that Sylvari would most likely be a "good guy".

The "courts" system is definably possible. However, again, we have too little information for me to have a solid idea.

Sha Noran said:

Not a bad theory at all mate but uh... did I miss a big discussion eliminating the very obvious possibility that the Sylvari are just an excuse to have Elves in Guild Wars?

They are closer to Dryads than to elves. Elves are made from flesh and blood, however Dryads (a type of Nymph from Greek Mythology) is made from plants - usually trees and flowers.

[ShadowedSin]

Let me agree with Konig in saying that the Sylvari are more representative of forest spirits or the Dryad Nymph godlets of Greek Mythology.

So no, they are not elves.

[Whisper]

Konig Des Todes said:

This is speculation, not known. Sidhe was the name of a new race to be introduced in Utopia. Not as a "new to the world" but "new to lore."

There may be no connection at all. As such, I disagree and say we cannot be sure yet. There may be a connection, there may not be. The only connection could just be "Ok, let's not do the Sidhe idea, but I say we should have some plant-race in GW2. Any ideas?" "How about something based off of <insert plant creature from mytholgy here>?"

The two courts does seem to match the Sylvari and their "splinter groups" - from what little information we have.

I'd go the other way around with the Summer/Winter thing. The "Summoned" concept art would be the "Unseleighe" court, but the concept art of what looks to be the main Sylvari in the trailer with white "hair" and a green dress is labeled as "SylvariWinter" - and that Sylvari would most likely be a "good guy".

The "courts" system is definably possible. However, again, we have too little information for me to have a solid idea.

They are closer to Dryads than to elves. Elves are made from flesh and blood, however Dryads (a type of Nymph from Greek Mythology) is made from plants - usually trees and flowers.

Indeed information other than concept art and name of the sidhe was never published so this is all assumption however with a name like that one can only assume it was inspired by Irish myth.

However due to their simmilarities in concept (both being plant related in design) I personaly think that the Sylvari is the second stage in the concept of the sidhe again this is all assumptions :).

The courts i can agree on you on the winter sylvari doesen't seam twisted in any way,
but i get the feeling that the name of the picture was placed there as a small spoiler...
However it could also be that the sylvari is using some frost based magic.. Mordakai's post made me see it in another light with such strong refferences as the Wyld hunt... I naturaly set my eyes on irish mythology :).

The faeries are spirits/souls/Dreams or in some stories feinds or devils. Their appreance are not that of small folk with wings. That is what modern media has done to them... Sidhe for example are much akin to humans and elves in modern fantasy myths.. They are not elves...

[pumpkin pie]

I don't think Sylvari was originally going to be called Sidhe, Sidhe could very well be part of the art team effort of research of how they want Sylvari to look like. They know they wanted to use Ronan and Ventari and the planting of the seed to produce Sylvari, but what would a plant+human look like? Research - found Sidhe in the mythology, come up with more concept arts, hence the release of the final concept art of the Sylvari during EotN etc etc...

[Whisper]

pumpkin pie said:

I don't think Sylvari was originally going to be called Sidhe, Sidhe could very well be part of the art team effort of research of how they want Sylvari to look like. They know they wanted to use Ronan and Ventari and the planting of the seed to produce Sylvari, but what would a plant+human look like? Research - found Sidhe in the mythology, come up with more concept arts, hence the release of the final concept art of the Sylvari during EotN etc etc...

Sidhe in mythology have nothing to do with plants..per say however you may find fae that lives in trees ect.

[ShadowedSin]

Sidhe were again the defeated gods of Ireland. They have a relationship in Scotland because the Gaelic Irish invaded Scotland and formed the Kingdom of Dal Riada.

The Celts in general had a belief in a creator goddess. They even had a form of world tree in their varying myths.

Hell the tree that the Sylvari is not unlike the legends of a world tree. It is the source of life for their race.

[Renita of the Darkness]

To be honest, while I do see the link, I will try not to assume anything till we get some Sylvari NPC names. It is usually from the names where we get our hints of where they are from. I think the Greek nymphs and the Irish fairies are good contenders in their own rights but I'm still naming mine after a nymph.

[Konig Des Todes]

Current stance on this:

Sidhe were going to be based off of Celtic Mythology - Sylvari are based off of Greek Mythology with Latin references.

Like I said before, until we get more Sylvari (or even Sidhe) info, we cannot say much more than what the Sylvari are and where their race's name comes from (which is latin).

[ShadowedSin]

Konig Des Todes said:

Current stance on this:

Sidhe were going to be based off of Celtic Mythology - Sylvari are based off of Greek Mythology with Latin references.

Like I said before, until we get more Sylvari (or even Sidhe) info, we cannot say much more than what the Sylvari are and where their race's name comes from (which is latin).

Hopefully we will get some more lore hints soon.

[Renita of the Darkness]

well, PAX is coming and like Christmas, it always brings good treats. ^^

[ShadowedSin]

Renita of the Darkness said:

well, PAX is coming and like Christmas, it always brings good treats. ^^

I do live near Seattle, and I believe it will be worth invading PAX to derive some information.

[Whisper]

ShadowedSin said:

I do live near Seattle, and I believe it will be worth invading PAX to derive some information.

If only to get the artbook ^^ Hopefully us europeans will be able to order it soon. And more lore info is always welcome :).

[draxynnic]

Konig Des Todes said:

Current stance on this:

Sidhe were going to be based off of Celtic Mythology - Sylvari are based off of Greek Mythology with Latin references.

Like I said before, until we get more Sylvari (or even Sidhe) info, we cannot say much more than what the Sylvari are and where their race's name comes from (which is latin).

Which presents the question of what the Greek equivalent to the Wild Hunt might have been... I believe Artemis had nymphs among her court.

However, it could be that ANet is simply mixing and matching their mythological references. Regarding the Wyld Hunt for the Sylvari - if I remember correctly, it's listed as one of the things the Sylvari have to contend with - this makes me think it might be how they refer to their dark sides (although those who give in to it might well go on actual Wild Hunt-esque rampages).

[Whisper]

draxynnic said:

Which presents the question of what the Greek equivalent to the Wild Hunt might have been... I believe Artemis had nymphs among her court.

However, it could be that ANet is simply mixing and matching their mythological references. Regarding the Wyld Hunt for the Sylvari - if I remember correctly, it's listed as one of the things the Sylvari have to contend with - this makes me think it might be how they refer to their dark sides (although those who give in to it might well go on actual Wild Hunt-esque rampages).

The Wyld hunt as far as i know have no Greek equivalent. It exsist almost exclusivly in northern europe, the native american do however have their own version.

The wyld hunt in Sylvari lore doesen't realy sound like the wild hunt, but taken out of context it is more akin to wanderlust.. A need for exploration.

The concept of dryads aren't exclusivly greek. Faeries much akin to the Dryads do exsist in Irish myth, however as you mentioned it could be that Arena-net is mixing up various Mythologies.

And as ShadowedSin mentioned the idea of a world tree wich the sylvari comes from fits very well into my thesis :). Funny how all of northen europe samewhat comes up with the same things in diffrent religions ^^.

[draxynnic]

They're probably not actually so different when you get down to it. In fact, the gods of the German tribes before they became Christianised are recognisable as being local variants of the Norse pantheon, for instance. Britain is less clearly linked, but you can bet there was some crossover of concepts, or that aspects of both mythologies drew from a common ancestral mythological system.

[Konig Des Todes]

ShadowedSin said:

I do live near Seattle, and I believe it will be worth invading PAX to derive some information.

Take a pen and notebook (or a laptop) and write down EVERYTHING you hear them say. Then post up the lore info in this forum. ^^

[Whisper]

Konig Des Todes said:

Take a pen and notebook (or a laptop) and write down EVERYTHING you hear them say. Then post up the lore info in this forum. ^^

Or he could record it ^^.

[Konig Des Todes]

Whisper said:

Or he could record it ^^.

Issue with that is seen in the Gamescon interview which is on Youtube. There's too much noise sometimes you cannot make out what they say. But it also allows you to go back and write anything you missed (got part 1 of the interview down, writing the rest).

[ShadowedSin]

Konig Des Todes said:

Take a pen and notebook (or a laptop) and write down EVERYTHING you hear them say. Then post up the lore info in this forum. ^^

I'll see what I can get, and if I have time to drive down there.

[Renita of the Darkness]

Please do, be our eyes and ears. ^^

[ShadowedSin]

Well right now traveling alone in Seattle is not exactly my cup of tea. And I've got limited funds *sad*.

So don't count on me being there right now since college is look like its depleting my funds. If I do go I shall find out what I can.