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Revamp ideas to make Ele viable for PVP


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#31 Caffynated

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:18 AM

View PostDaPala, on 22 October 2012 - 04:52 AM, said:

#3 Maybe some usability on some skills, ie DT should not have a long cast time AND long dropping time (IF you updraft and instantly DT someone, they should not be able to get out of it without a stunbreak..just my opinion. Might be a tad on the strong side though), phoenix could fly faster - or accelerate on longer ranges.

I actually like the time that DT hangs in the air. It gives me time to set up a combo. I do RTL, lightning strike, blind, updraft, fire attunement, DT, signet of earth, ring of fire, arcane explosion, phoenix, and fire grab. The burst in that 1-2 second time stamp is filthy and leaves me with 15-20 stacks of might going into my next target.

It's sort of the GW2 equivalent of Explosion, Ebolt hally.

A casting time reduction would be ok, but it's nothing I'm hoping for.

Edited by Caffynated, 22 October 2012 - 10:21 AM.


#32 Therion

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 01:34 PM

I maintain that anyone getting hit with dragon tooth/phoenix isn't even trying. They need some combination of:

Damage increase
Cast time reduction
Activation time reduction
Increased radius
And/or they need to lock onto a target intead of being GT or whatever the hell Dragons Tooth is.

Obviously not all of that, but at least 2 or 3 of them would be necessary to them them into viable spells.

The fact is that we have to bounce through multiple attunements while locking people down with CC just to do even close to the damage other classes can pull off while chasing you around mashing 1 - 5 on their keyboard, and on top of that our surviveability is terrible.

Edited by Therion, 22 October 2012 - 01:38 PM.


#33 DaPala

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 01:47 PM

View PostTherion, on 22 October 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

I maintain that anyone getting hit with dragon tooth/phoenix isn't even trying. They need some combination of:

Damage increase
Cast time reduction
Activation time reduction
Increased radius
And/or they need to lock onto a target intead of being GT or whatever the hell Dragons Tooth is.

The fact is that we have to bounce through multiple attunements while locking people down with CC just to do even close to the damage other classes can pull off while chasing you around mashing 1 - 5 on their keyboard, and on top of that our surviveability is terrible.

I think a damage increase on our burst skills is out of the question - It would just go back to oneshot-combos if the combo lands.
The problem is that every player that isnt afk can dodge it, which is one of the two problems:

a ) you need to burn an insane amount of skills, including one-to-two utility skills to be able to burst
b )if you do not take signet of earth, the enemy can just walk or dodge out (depending on whether 40sec cd updraft was ready...which is already broken to have to rely on that...and even more so that the enemy only needs to dodge if you do).

IF you take signet of earth the enemy can still use one of the following skills (and it only needs one):
I) Stunbreak
II) Condi cleanse
III) Any evade/invul skill
to nullify like 6 of your skills you have to use.

The same is true for Churning Earth - it is a great skill, but it locks you down for an insane amount of time, is easy to interrupt and easy to avoid (dodge, walk out, other evade/invul skills or simply stun/daze/kd).

TL;DR: We telegraph all our skills so damn much, and they all happen so slowly, even the worst afker can evade them. If it was hard to recognize or as hard to dodge as an eviscerate, for example (due to animating so fast) it would be ok. But atm we use the most resources to do it, and the enemy spends next to none to dodge it.

Edit: Also, buff autoattacks, I cannot stress this enough. Autoattacks are so damn important in this game, and most ele autos suck hard.

Edited by DaPala, 22 October 2012 - 01:49 PM.


#34 Therion

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 02:13 PM

Quote

I think a damage increase on our burst skills is out of the question - It would just go back to oneshot-combos if the combo lands.

I'd tend to agree with that, but would it be any worse than what thieves/rangers/warriors are doing right now, with far less effort? Just yesterday I was crit by a ranger for 13k with quick shot (instant cast on a 9 second cooldown). I literally spent 4 or 5 seconds locking him down with CC and lining up a chain of slow/GT spells, only to have him turn around and drop me from 20k - 0 in less time than it takes for a single dragons tooth or phoenix to cast and land.

But in an ideal world, yeah, I'd rather see some of the excesses of other classes toned down, and our spells made less easily nullified due to their insane avoidability.

I agree about the auto attacks as well. Fire feels ok, or at least not as pathetic as the others, but all the other attunements are pretty shitty, even air, which is supposed to be 'the' single target DPS attunement.

#35 DaPala

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:17 PM

View PostTherion, on 22 October 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

Just yesterday I was crit by a ranger for 13k with quick shot (instant cast on a 9 second cooldown).

Wat.

I just...I also have a ranger, used to be my main (until I gave up because the class is horribly, horribly boring as most things are broken)..but 13k Quickshot, no way. Quickshot crit is more around 1.3k if it crits on a glass cannon ranger. Guess you were mistaken.
The only thing that deals damage is Shortbow auto or Sword autoattack.

#36 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:37 PM

The damage of dragons tooth is OK I think. It can hit hard under the right circumstances and it only has a 6 seconds cooldown (like most other hardhitters of other classes). What is a problem though that you can't even guarantee it hitting with signet of earth or updraft, because if people spam dodge while they are knocked down/immobilized, they can dodge some milliseconds before the tooth hits and it does no damage. It should either fall faster or be ground targeted.

What we do need though is a cooldown reduction on a LOT of skills imho, especially dagger. 45 seconds Firegrab, really? And as someone else suggested, it should always do the same damage, but autocrit against burning targets. 15 Seconds cooldown would be ok I think. Also our knockdown skills could use some cooldown reduction.

#37 Therion

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:13 PM

View PostDaPala, on 22 October 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Wat.

I just...I also have a ranger, used to be my main (until I gave up because the class is horribly, horribly boring as most things are broken)..but 13k Quickshot, no way. Quickshot crit is more around 1.3k if it crits on a glass cannon ranger. Guess you were mistaken.
The only thing that deals damage is Shortbow auto or Sword autoattack.

Double checking, you're actually correct. I remember that the skill ended in '-shot' and was instant cast, but on further examination, rangers can't use guns, which this guy was. Perhaps it was a warrior? The number was definitely 13k (well, 12.8k, you don't easily forget getting hit that har), and still speaks to just how fubared we are relative to other classes right now.

Edited by Therion, 22 October 2012 - 11:14 PM.


#38 Aky

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 01:03 AM

View PostTherion, on 22 October 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:

Perhaps it was a warrior? The number was definitely 13k (well, 12.8k, you don't easily forget getting hit that har)
Kill Shot
gl hitting it

#39 Therion

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 02:22 AM

Quote

It should either fall faster or be ground targeted.

I'd say fall faster, along with a faster cast. Making it ground target wouldn't make it any more difficult to dodge.

#40 Aetou

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 06:33 PM

View PostTherion, on 22 October 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:

Double checking, you're actually correct. I remember that the skill ended in '-shot' and was instant cast, but on further examination, rangers can't use guns, which this guy was. Perhaps it was a warrior? The number was definitely 13k (well, 12.8k, you don't easily forget getting hit that har), and still speaks to just how fubared we are relative to other classes right now.

Actually it was probably Rapid Shot.  In full bursty gear, with Flanking (+10%), Steady Focus (+10%), Eagle Eye (+5%), 10+ Stacks of Vulnerability (Hunter's Shot), Fury, Quickness, Moment of Clarity, etc., you could probably get into that sort of ballpark in the 2s or so that it takes to channel.  Maybe not quite there, but I've hit 10k with it before.

#41 Featherman

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 03:31 AM

I'd rather DT be a ground target skill with the same speed, but can potentially chain into an explosion with a longer cooldown. Something along the lines of the Guardian's staff 2 skill.

Edited by Featherman, 28 October 2012 - 03:31 AM.





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