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WTF with Mesmer nerfbat


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#31 F O S T E R

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:11 AM

I'm using phantasm build (duelist/swordsman) and in pve/pvp I have no problem with higher cd.

#32 Adashio

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:55 PM

View PostVeltoss, on 08 October 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:

It was only "broken" to people who didn't know how to fight them.

exactly!!! the mesmers were only nerfed because MOST people complained very ignorantly that mesmers were too strong. when in actuality when fighting a mesmers/thiefs you simply need a change in tactic to beat. which you should have to do with all classes. though these 2 take the most change. but not by much.

if you are attacking a mesmer....and u get confused by clones. and waste skills(elite,utility,weapon skills) u should expect too lose. the mesmer class should not be nerfed simply because MOST people will not take the time and MINISCULE energy to change there tactics, and learn how to beat the class they are complaining about.

right now the big op arguments are 1) moa morph, 2) PORTAL,

moa morph i get. POWERAFUL yes. OP no. though it is near the border. moa morph can be dodged,interupted, and it has a long cool down that will make shure it is only used once every 3 battles if they are one after the other. and even if it lands it is not instant kill.....whats that. mesmer will use it when u have low health which makes it op. well if i use my auto attack when u have 1 percent health then that must be op too right :P

portal is a very interesting skill. the ability to bring a large number of troops instantly, and over a large distance make it a very poweraful skil. but only in organized groups. should it have a limit? this i agree with you. yes it should get a little nerf on how meny people go through. 5 people max? ARE U CRAZY. that would esentially make it useless in wvw sieges. in true actuality the number needs to be at something that will give a fight. as well as a chance to take over the keep with that simple move. but it cannot be so big as too make shure that the keep will most definatly be over run. something like 15-25 people max!....but really in both cases portal should stay as simple as it is. really the portal cool down nerf should be as far as it goes for right now.

there should be nothing else to complain about the class....well maybe time warp....but really since launch i have played every class. with mesmer NOT as my main. so really i have a good grasp on what is op in comparison. really what i think makes one player greater than another is build. not class. right now the mesmer class is unique. and hard to beat if you will not take the time to fight it correctly. now before i get a lot of shit for saying my mind. let me ask u something. what classes do you even understand? what is your main class? what is your main build? do you find mesmer confusing? have u played mesmer?.........but more importantly. do you kill mesmers as often as you kill any other class? if not then allow me to say that I have killed mesmers just as easily as every other class with every class. so because u find them hard to beat. i have come to the conclusion that A) they have a greater build when fighting your build. or B) you are confused by clones which resulted in wasted skills. which also resulted in a most likely defeat.

really these nerfs only came to be because a lot of people complained about the class that they did not want to understand. just because an idea is common does not make it true. once long ago most of us thought the world was flat, and the sun revolved around the earth. were we right?

#33 Necteys

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:50 PM

Adashio, nothing more to say here :)

Mesmer is a class, you really have to understand to play it for a winning. And there are a few out there, who took mesmer since the betas and have a real passion for this class. The balance for this understanding and the knowledge is. Your enemy has to fully understand the Mesmer to beat him.
People nowadays don't think about this...it's always the fault of everyone around them, when they lose. There's some kind of mentality ongoing like "I am a uberprogamer and there is no possibility that anyone can defeat me. Everyone who beats me MUST be nerfed". They just go on and complain until they got, what they want. Valid arguments for them are "I have over xxxx hours played and equip yyy. I know what to do (and I DON'T EVER make mistakes)"
The problem is, a good player keeps being a good player. He adapts to the nerfbat and finds other ways, to beat the crap out of the self-announced Gods.
They can go on and complain until the Mesmer is deleted from the game and maybe then they are on the receiving end, because someone else's cry was louder than theirs.

What goes around, comes around

#34 GrandmaFunk

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 02:58 PM

View PostAndrewSX, on 08 October 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

PvP/PvE split skills: it's time for Anetto use it.

They already do, it's just not that obvious because the vast majority of the skills are the same in both

#35 Adashio

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:08 AM

View PostSonzai_Moto, on 11 November 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

Hopped on my mesmer a bit for some sPvP to see what people were complaining about. I won most, not all, but most of the battles I was in because the other players didn't know what to do. Not just against a mesmer, but how to play their own class. Most were button mashing, expecting a win. Some did great damage, but never followed up on it. I was allowed to heal so many times. Plus, I could just see the c-spacing against my clones...even when I didn't go invisibile... One warrior blocked my Moa once, and that was the most impressive thing I saw from other players. Meanwhile the npc soldiers on the guild lord map were crippling me, interrupting me, and tearing through my illusions. I thought, if human players were doing this, I'd be toast.

I haven't played the tournaments, but I can see how portals and time warp would affect play. But on sPvP, mesmers are fine. Button mashing, just won't be effective against them. Then again, mesmers can't button mash themselves and expect to survive either.

This is from another thread. But it does sum up what is actually going on with the mesm hate. Really if I were to guess what the ratio of 1v1 wins between mesmer and other classes when both players have equal skill. The mesmer would win 60 percent of the time. And only 10 percent more because the other player did not how to fight Mesmers and there CLONES.

Really all this mesmer hate is just coming from people that don't want to know why the mesmer/theifs are able to beat them. And out of their ignorance comes complaints. And guess what!!! when there are a lot of complaints. It does not matter if the nerf is right or wrong because it will still happen. The only reason these nerfs came to be was because people are putting arena net in to a position of haveing to please the complaining population of gamers. And there really is no justice in it. Just because 80 percent of the players say something is OP does not make it OP. once most of us thought the world was flat, and after that the sun revolved around the earth. We're we right ?

Edited by Adashio, 22 November 2012 - 06:10 AM.


#36 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:31 PM

Of course, in the mesmer forum all mesmers are pros and the rest of the professions are played by moronic monkeys. Just like in the thief forum. Just keep telling yourself that and one day you might actually believe it, like some kind of ubermensch.

#37 Adashio

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 09:43 AM

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 22 November 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

Of course, in the mesmer forum all mesmers are pros and the rest of the professions are played by moronic monkeys. Just like in the thief forum. Just keep telling yourself that and one day you might actually believe it, like some kind of ubermensch.


Actually Mesmers are not saying that everyone else is a noob when fighting them. In truth when people fight mesmer they get confused by clones which results in wasted skills, and a most likely defeat. It is a simple and easy mistake. As not meny players have the experience to identify the real mesmer with ease. Though it does result in a lot of wins for a mesmer. I'd say 1 out of every 5 people have mastered this skill. But hay don't be going on about how it's hard to identify the real mesmer. It just takes a little practice.

As for theifs. I don't know why theifs would say everyone else is a noob. Infact I have not even seen or heard anything about that. Which is kinda taking the believability from what you have just said. Really I would like a quote mentioning that theifs are good players and everyone else is a noob.

Really. In all my time playing every class in pvp. The only big thing that is allowing Mesmers to win MOST of the fights they are in. Are the clones and the mental confusion they can bring to an inexperienced mesmer fighter. Really you can look up a pvp vid. And you will usually see that the person fighting the mesmer will waste skills on the clones. I expect that before any of you post a reply. You look back at those glorious pvp memories of fighting a mesmer, and see if you remember loosing track of the mesmer for a decent length of time at all. People are getting frustrated by the fact that they are not able to damage the mesmer health a lot. When in actuality they are not attacking the mesmer at all. Really think about it. If you wast 3 secs per clone, and he has a lot of clones. He will be taking minimal damage. As well as will be able to use his heal to get his health to max easily

Edited by Adashio, 23 November 2012 - 09:51 AM.


#38 derek1240

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 10:40 AM

View PostAdashio, on 23 November 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

Actually Mesmers are not saying that everyone else is a noob when fighting them. In truth when people fight mesmer they get confused by clones which results in wasted skills, and a most likely defeat. It is a simple and easy mistake. As not meny players have the experience to identify the real mesmer with ease. Though it does result in a lot of wins for a mesmer. I'd say 1 out of every 5 people have mastered this skill. But hay don't be going on about how it's hard to identify the real mesmer. It just takes a little practice.

As for theifs. I don't know why theifs would say everyone else is a noob. Infact I have not even seen or heard anything about that. Which is kinda taking the believability from what you have just said. Really I would like a quote mentioning that theifs are good players and everyone else is a noob.

Really. In all my time playing every class in pvp. The only big thing that is allowing Mesmers to win MOST of the fights they are in. Are the clones and the mental confusion they can bring to an inexperienced mesmer fighter. Really you can look up a pvp vid. And you will usually see that the person fighting the mesmer will waste skills on the clones. I expect that before any of you post a reply. You look back at those glorious pvp memories of fighting a mesmer, and see if you remember loosing track of the mesmer for a decent length of time at all. People are getting frustrated by the fact that they are not able to damage the mesmer health a lot. When in actuality they are not attacking the mesmer at all. Really think about it. If you wast 3 secs per clone, and he has a lot of clones. He will be taking minimal damage. As well as will be able to use his heal to get his health to max easily
yeah to be honest i heard so many mesmers complaining about the nerfs and such that i decided to see if it was that bad. Honestly i dont notice most of them. I dont really use gs anymore but besides that i dont find my ability to beat any other player has changed.

I play multiple classes and even when im on another character i dont usuallt have problems with mesmers or illusions because i have played tha class myself.

#39 EatThisShoe

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 11:18 PM

Rather than nerfing phantasms directly I think they should have made Illusionist's Celerity not effect phantasms. The point at which their cooldowns are too low is when you stack illusion cooldown reduction with weapon cooldown reduction for 40% reduction. Nerfing the Phantasm itself makes them worse for all builds. You could make them not stack, but honestly Illusionist's Celerity is really strong for a 5 point adept trait, it is guaranteed to effect 4 skills, same as any weapon cooldown, but can also effect utilities too making it potentially 7 skills.

As far as Adashio's argument about players not knowing how to deal with mesmers, that's true for new players, but mesmer are still one of the top classes in organized teams, so there's a lot more to it than just scrubs needing to L2P.

As far as mesmers getting nerfed, well most classes got nerfed this patch. If you look at other class forums you will see rangers, engineers, eles, necros all complaining that their nerfs are huge and their buffs are irrelevant. I haven't looked over every class forum, but from what I remember of the patch notes it's mostly the same everywhere.

#40 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 02:37 AM

View PostAdashio, on 23 November 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

Actually Mesmers are not saying that everyone else is a noob when fighting them. In truth when people fight mesmer they get confused by clones which results in wasted skills, and a most likely defeat. It is a simple and easy mistake. As not meny players have the experience to identify the real mesmer with ease. Though it does result in a lot of wins for a mesmer. I'd say 1 out of every 5 people have mastered this skill. But hay don't be going on about how it's hard to identify the real mesmer. It just takes a little practice.


That's actually exactly what you're saying in that paragraph.

#41 Adashio

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 05:31 AM

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 24 November 2012 - 02:37 AM, said:



That's actually exactly what you're saying in that paragraph.

I was not saying that unskilled people cant beat a mesmer.
Actually what I was saying is that MOST people do not have the most basic and required technique needed to fight most Mesmers correctly. regardless of skill level. It is not a matter of skill or time in the game. Instead its speculation of if you have taken time to master a much needed skill, or if you Have not. The importance of this skill is equally important to your auto attack. If you do not use your auto attack. It is a simple thing. Yet in most cases you will lose if you do not use it. If you do not have the most common technique specifically needed to fight clone using Mesmers. Which for those of you do not know is the ability to easily find the real mesmer from the clones quickly, and then act on it. Then you will lose most of the time regardless of skill level.

Allow me to explain why this simple and easy to learn technique is so important. In a fight in which you do not know if the mesmer before you is a clone. You will attack it regardless. For this reason you would have wasted time. Or if you have wasted one of your elite,utility,weapon skills. You will have wasted time and resources. Along with this the mesmer you are attacking will have taken none to little damage. And because of the fact that mesmer clones take your concentration from the mesmer Most of the time. The mesmer will be able to use his heal,moa morph, or any skill easily, and withought the threat of being interrupted or dodged. Along with this you will be taking damage from the mesmer constantly.

So if you have taken 30 mins to master this skill. the results would be this. You no longer attack or wast time or resources on clones. You will be able to see if the mesmer is going to heal, and then interupt him with a stun,knock back, pull, daze,etc. and all because you can see him do it. You will be able to dodge moa morph if you see him starting to use it, and if you do not have any dodge left you could interrupt him to buy you some more time to dodge. You will be able to land more damage on the mesmer then before. Really the potential is as much as you can think of when you use this simple technique.

Now this will not make it so you will win every fight with a mesmer. But it will increase your chance of winning by a huge margin. Really right now the mesmer class is only winning most fights because of the ignorance of people that ignore this technique, and instead attack head on blind in to battle. This is not a uncommon technique. You can have one of your mesmer friends spar with you until you can see the real mesmer and be able to act on it. Gosh I wish there was dueling in this game. People would learn a lot about all the classes and how to fight them properly if it existed. Until it is added though ( which I don't think will happen) you will have to wisper the server number. And then you both will join that game if it is empty, But it will not stay empty for long. I do this with my friends if we want to duel, and I also do this with my guild. We try to max out the game so we can have the the whole server all to our selves for practice. Though it is hard to get that meny people we have done it.

Edited by Adashio, 24 November 2012 - 06:21 AM.


#42 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 04:33 PM

View PostAdashio, on 24 November 2012 - 05:31 AM, said:

I was not saying that unskilled people cant beat a mesmer.
Actually what I was saying is that MOST people do not have the most basic and required technique needed to fight most Mesmers correctly.

So, what you're saying is MOST people who are fighting against mesmers are noobs. I rest my case.

#43 RandolfRa

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 04:39 PM

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 24 November 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

So, what you're saying is MOST people who are fighting against mesmers are noobs. I rest my case.
What, they aren't?

#44 Adashio

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:25 PM

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 24 November 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:



So, what you're saying is MOST people who are fighting against mesmers are noobs. I rest my case.

Why do you keep going on about me saying everyone that fights a mesmer is a noob?
Really thanks for being mature and taking this conversation forward instead of backwards (sarcasm)
Can you bring something new to the table instead of contradicting everyone that is defending mesmer simply to satisfy your idiotic and obvious hate for Mesmers.

If I were saying that anyone that fights a mesmer is a noob. (Which i obviously have not) Then that would mean that I have basically said that everyone including Mesmers that cannot beat other Mesmers are so unskilled that they cannot beat any other class in the game.........really where you are getting this conclusion is beyond me....or bellow me.

In actuality what I am saying is that MOST(not all) players simply cannot beat most mesmers BECAUSE they are not attacking the mesmer correctly. Which for those who have not read my other posts is the ability to be able to distinguish the real mesmer from the clones, and not to attack blindly in the pethetic attempt to hurt the mesmer. And by players I of course mean every class including other Mesmers. The ONLY reason mesmers are at the top of pvp is because MOST players regardless of skill level or class have not taken the time to master this simple yet effective art of determining if the Mesmer in front of them is actually a clone, and then act correctly on it. Even if they have become familiar with this technique. They must become a master of it in order to successfully fight Mesmers.

For those that have not read my other posts describing the importance of this technique, and for those that have have read my other posts but did not read and understand it correctly. AETHERMCLOUD as an example of this. Allow me to explain the importance of this simple yet effective technique

Imagine you do not have this technique at all. In other words you have no idea that the mesmer in front of you is actually a clone. In this situation what class you have has little importance for the outcome will always be the same.

Seeing as you have no idea that the mesmer in front of you is a clone you will most likely attack it. Now if you have only used your auto attack and nothing else then you will have only wasted time. Though time is very important. Because most skills have cool downs. You will have lowered the cool down of all the skills that the mesmer has on cool down by the amount of time you have wasted attacking a clone that can easily be replaced. BUT this is only the best outcome of your ignorance to this technique. Because you will have most likely used a weapon,utility,or elite skill when attacking that clone.....lets say you are another Mesmer in this situation, and lets also say you decided to use moa morph because you think that it will give you a huge advantage to start off The fight. but because it was just a cloneYou have just wasted a very valuable resource on a easy to replace clone. As well as given the mesmer more time. How about another example...hmmmm.....lets say you are a greatsword warrior. What I have seen most of the time is warriors will use whirlwind attack to close the gap on the clone(that, they think is a mesmer) and essentially waste that skill. What's that?...you think that whirlwind is not much of a loss as it has a small cool down.  Think again. If the warrior knew that the clone in front of him was in fact a clone and not a mesmer. Then the warrior would save that for the real mesmer. And if he had the skill to find the real mesmer easily and quickly he would be able to do more damage to the mesmer then if he had wasted the skill on the clone.

So do you see the consequence of being ignorant of this technique. You will waste time. You will have wasted Weapon skills that could be used to do more damage instead of being set to cool down.  You would have wasted Utility skills that could be used to give you an advantage against the real opponent  instead of just being set to cool down. You would have wasted Elite skills that......I don't really have to point this one out to you do I?

So after reading all that you must be like. OH MESMERS ARE SO HARD TO BEAT WITHOUT THIS TECHNIQUE. BUT THE TECHNIQUE MUST BE SO HARD TO LEARN RIGHT? WRONG!!!!! In fact this technique is easy to learn. It only takes time and practice that can change depending on your skill level. Really I would say that 40-50 percent of the players have masters this technique.  But seeing as at least 50 percent of the players regardless of skill level or class have been almost completely ignorant of adapting this technique to there playing style when fighting the Mesmer class. The mesmer most likely win 40-50 percent of the fights(do you see the math there). When I use my mesmer I see all the time that most players will lose after I get them to lose track of me a couple of times. When I get them to lose track of me I will see them attack a clone and waste very valuable skills and time. Not only that but if there back is turned. And there attention is away from me. Well I can use my heal without being interrupted. I can keep damaging him without worry of being damaged back. I can use moa morph because he would not know that I am activating it, and because he is ignorant to me I can very easily do what I want to him without him being able to dodge because he would not even know its coming until it has already hit him.

So if you have mastered this simple and easy to learn technique. The results would be this. You will not waste time and resources on clones. Which will equal out the fight and essentially make clones close to useless for the mesmer. You will not win every fight with this technique (this is not a win button) but for those that have trouble with mesmers clones( there are a lot of people that do). This will increase your chances to beat Mesmers by a huge percent. After that it all comes down to build and skill. IT DOES NOT COME DOWN TO PROFESSION

P.s. in gw2 classes are called profession(Don't know why). So when I say class. I really am saying profession

Edited by Adashio, 25 November 2012 - 03:00 PM.


#45 Sonzai_Moto

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:38 PM

Adashio covers the issue quite well. A beginning player or those that don't adapt against the mesmer will have trouble against them. It's the same with thieves. First encounters with them will usually lead to a loss. Unfortunately, too many players want to 1-2-3 in PvP and complain when it's not that easy. They expect a PvE experience in PvP. This is very similar to threads in GW1 where warriors wanted blocks, blinds, and hexes removed so that they didn't have to adjust their play style.

#46 Adashio

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:19 AM

View PostSonzai_Moto, on 25 November 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Adashio covers the issue quite well. A beginning player or those that don't adapt against the mesmer will have trouble against them. It's the same with thieves. First encounters with them will usually lead to a loss. Unfortunately, too many players want to 1-2-3 in PvP and complain when it's not that easy. They expect a PvE experience in PvP. This is very similar to threads in GW1 where warriors wanted blocks, blinds, and hexes removed so that they didn't have to adjust their play style.

Correct. However the 50 percent of people that have not mastered this skill are not entirely NEW players. In fact there are a lot of people within the 50 percent group that are in between mastering the technique, and being completely unfamiliar with it.......maybe "mastering" is not the right word.....hmmmm. By mastering I of course mean that they have adapted this technique to the point were they no longer will waste skills or time when fighting Mesmers The only reason they have not learned this is simply because they have not taken the time to adapt there play style in order to fight Mesmers correctly. This technique will not come naturally for MOST people. For MOST people we will have to take time in order to master it. It is not a matter of being a noob but instead a matter of if you have taken the time to learn this technique and adapt to it. It's like learning when is the best time to dodge. It sometimes comes naturally. But it is best to simply practice as to increase your chance of winning the fight by dodgeing at the right time.  In fact in my research the simple lost of a few skills can have a dramatic effect on the outcome of a fight regardless of class. It's like wasting your skills on something that's not there. Like a clone. Clones do simple very little damage alone. But there main purpose other than feeding the shatters is to confuse you. Or put more simply. To waste your skills if you fall for the trick, and its such a simple trick to see through. that all it takes is a little practice and time to learn how see through the trick. The only reasons mesmer are at the top of pvp is simply because in 50 percent of the fights that a mesmer is in.  there opponent will not have mastered this technique. In other words. 50 percent of the opponents that a mesmer will face will waste time and skills on clones. I do not mean that they will waste all there skills one clone after another. But instead that they will make a mistake of thinking the clone in front of them is a mesmer once or more, and waste one or more skills. Giving the mesmer a huge advantage during that time because the opponent has just wasted a skill that the mesmer will not have to worry about for a little while, and that the opponents attention Is away from the real mesmer. Giving the mesmer a huge advantage of being able to do whatever they want without the worry of being countered.. They don't really have to waste 10 skills in order to lose. It really can be ANY number. Because for each skill wasted the chances of you winning WILL DROP.


View PostAetherMcLoud, on 25 November 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

And again you say that 50% of the people fighting mesmers are noobs (because someone who doesn't/can't learn such a simple technique is simply a noob).

I don't know why you're still arguing yourself into a wall.

1) I said that there are about 50 percent of people that are ignorant to this technique. But I did not say that the 50 percent of people are noobs. Infact I did not even say the word noob. In truth you are saying that not me.
2) people that are so unskilled that they cannot learn this simple technique are noobs(the unskilled player definition) yes. But not even more than 1 percent of those people are in that situation. In fact most of that 50 percent simply are new to the technique or are compleatly oblivious to it. This can happen easily if the player jumps to the conclusion that Mesmers are over powerd simply because of portal,time warp, and moa morph, or any other attribute about the mesmer other than the mental confusion the clones can bring. Because they jump to this conclusion they think that there playing style is completely correct when fighting mesmer. And because of that they will likely never adapt there fighting style correctly. In all my observation of mesmer fights. The real big reason Mesmers are winning MOST fights is because MOST of the people fighting them have not adapted there fighting style to fight Mesmers correctly.

This is my forth time trying to explain to you that your claim is incorrect and pointless

Can you honestly not post something else. I have tried explaining myself to you. But seeing as you are being too stubborn and simply want to pursue this point less argument. I am just going to give up on it.


Funny note though. This is the definition of noob, and how it is different from newbie.

this is from http://www.urbandict...e.php?term=noob

Defining 'Noob'

Contrary to the belief of many, a noob/n00b and a newbie/newb are not the same thing. Newbs are those who are new to some task* and are very beginner at it, possibly a little overconfident about it, but they are willing to learn and fix their errors to move out of that stage.
n00bs, on the other hand, know little and have no will to learn any more. They expect people to do the work for them and then expect to get praised about it, and make up a unique species of their own.

So over all the 50 percent of people that are ignorant of this technique are made up of both noobs, and newbies. Depending on what there attitude towar this technique would determin which one of them that individual is. Lol I like this definition.

But in actuality AETHERMCLOUD you said that I have said that ALL players that are ignorant to this technique are noobs. Which of course would be wrong. But also seeing as there is in actuality a NOOb population. Then they are most likely within (they do not make up) the 50 percent of people ignorant or new to this technique.

Edited by Adashio, 26 November 2012 - 04:35 AM.


#47 Corsair

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:34 AM

This thread was getting bogged down in semantics. Bring it back to reality rather than pointless bickering.

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#48 Adashio

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:53 AM

View PostGw2_profession_lawyer, on 26 November 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:



Thank you...this was getting a little ridiculous. Though aethermcloud was the main cause of it..................wait did you geti rid of my post :(

I had a good idea in it ....ah oh well

Ahhhh he got rid of my posts too. Well if it ends that stupid argument then I am contempt with it.



Well now would be a good time to post all of my ideas about what is the real problem with fighting Mesmers

Ok first off. I would like to say as my starting statement  that the real reason that Mesmers are winning most fights is because most people are not fighting them correctly.  That's right. So in this part of my post you must be like " oh is he saying that I suck. Is he calling me a noob" and you want to stop reading and post a violent comment. First i would like to say that i am NOT calling you a noob or unskilled player, and that I  ask that you read this. ALL of this. So that you will take in all the facts, and the reasons I have come to my conclusion

Ok with that down allow me to explain why most people are not attacking mesmers correctly. Oh and I say most people as in 50 percent of the gamer population regardless of skill level or profession . Ok the way to correctly fight Mesmers is simple. You must learn how to tell the difference between Mesmers and there clones to the point where you will not waste skills(weapon,utility,elite,prof.machanic), and time on clones. Simple right? In fact 50 percent of the gamers have mastered this technique to the point where they will make only a couple of mistakes if not no mistakes at all. It's impossible to not make a mistake every once in a while (we are only human). But by mastering this it will reduce the amount of mistakes you will make.........hmmmm you must be like "oh everyone knows that, and who cares if you make a ton of mistakes. It does not matter much right?".WRONG!!!!!

Allow me to go over the importance of this technique. Ok.....imagine that you do not have this technique at all.  In Other words you do not know that the mesmer in front of you is actually a clone. Now in this situation you would most likely attack it correct? Ok let's say you just use your auto attack for this. Ok you killed the clone and you understand what you have done. But what have you lost? The auto attack is not much of a loss. That much is true. But what about the time you put in to attacking the clone. Is that important? In truth it is. You see by attacking the Mesmers clone you have wasted averagely 3 secs on it. Now if you want to find out how much that is worth. Subtract 3 seconds from every skill that the mesmer had on cool down. Though this does subtract 3 seconds on your cool downs as well. I know it's a weird philosophy. but true none the less. It's not much but it is an advantage to opponents that have a lot of skills on cool down. So it is best not to give the mesmer a chance to use a skill that he could not 3 seconds ago. which is when you should have attacked him. Know though that this is the best  possible scenario From here the scenarios get worse.

Because you will have most likely used a weapon, or utility skill. Then you will not only have wasted time. you would have wasted a weapon skill. Which is something that is now on cool down. You could have damaged the mesmer with that weapon skill. But instead it is wasted damage. In Other words consider that you are behind in the fight by the amount of damage that the weapon skill would have done. The damage that you have wasted.
If you have not mastered this technique as much as you can. you will make a lot more mistakes then if you had mastered it. And if you make the mistake of losing track of the mesmer and instead attack a clone you will have wasted time, you will have wasted weapon skills that could have been used to damage the mesmer and bring the fight closer to your favor, you will have wasted utility skills that could have been used to give you an advantage that would have brought the fight closer to your favor, you would have wasted elite skills that......oh I don't have to go over this one with you now do I.
But with all that possible loss. Is that really all of it. The answer.....NO! If you lose track of the mesmer. You are giving the mesmer the perfect advantage. You see in this Time of you ignorance of the mesmer. The mesmer will be constantly damaging you without worry of being damaged back. the mesmer will be able to moa morph you, And why? Because if your attention is on the clone and not the mesmer. Then you will not know that the mesmer is casting moa morph. And because you do not know that he is casting moa morph you will likely not be able to dodge or interrupt it. You will know its coming only when it hits. Which for those that do not know. is too late!!!. Really just by losing track of the mesmer. You cannot fight the mesmer. It is the ultimate defense and attack that both Mesmers and thieves share. The ability to be able to do whatever you want to a opponent with little retaliation. But only when your opponent does not know where you are

So do you see the importance of having this technique? The importance of knowing where your enemy is !

After reading that you must be like "oh Mesmers are so hard to beat without this. But this is hard to master right"?.....WRONG!!!. In fact I would say that 50 percent of the people have mastered this technique if not more. Why so little you may say. Well before I can go over that I have to go over who makes up the 50 percent(or less) of gamer that have not mastered this technique.

the answer to that question is simple. Everyone that has not mastered this technique .people just 1 minute of practice away from mastering the technique to players that are by definition a noob. Now before I get a whole bunch of crap. First let me say that NOT EVERYONE in the 50 percent that has not mastered this is a noob. There are always going to be noobs in a game. By definition they are gamers that have little skill, and know little and have no will to learn any more. Or have any interest to improve there skill. So seeing as there are a population of noobs. They would most likely will be in the 50 percent of gamers that have not mastered this technique. Agreed?...ok.
The other players that make up this group of gamers. Are people that do not consider this technique to be useful. And for that reason do not improve on it. Then there are players that are working on mastering it. But have not mastered it YET.

Ok....now lets go over why most people have not mastered it. The reason is that most people do not believe that the skill Is important. And for that reason do not improve on the skill of the technique they already have. Why would they think its not important you may ask? Well let's put you in there shoes to explain this one.
Lets say that you keep loosing to Mesmers more than any other class. It is not much more. But enough to annoy you to the point of curiosity. So you look up the Internet and you search "why are mesmer OP". What comes up? Well mostly threads about moa morph, time warp, portal. The most poweraful skills that the mesmer has available to them. But yet...........nothing.......absolutely nothing about the mental confusion that clones bring a player, and from there the consequence of not having a defense against it. There is nothing on it. So what the average player will conclude. Is that the mesmer is OP due to specific skills, and not that there playing technique is not as good as it could be when fighting a mesmer. This will of course lead to a lot of players that will not change there tactic when fighting Mesmers, and instead will simply wait until the mesmer is nerfed to oblivion.

BUT if this player were to become informed that this technique needs to be mastered in order to fight mesmers to the best of ones ability. then the player would realize that the real problem was instead his fighting technique and not the mesmer. So after that the player takes some time to master the technique to the best of the players ability. After the player has done this the results would be.......

The player no longer wastes a lot of time attacking clones. Which results with more pressure on the mesmer. The player does not waste a lot of weapon skills. Which results in a lot more damage to the mesmer. The player does not waste utility skills on clones. Which results with the player keeping a advantage over the mesmer. And obviously the player does not waste elite skills( seems silly but I have seen moa morph hit one of my clones once). But more importantly the ultimate shield and attack that the mesmer has will no longer work. The player will no longer be damaged without retaliation to the mesmer Because the players attention will always be on the real mesmer. When the mesmer is going to heal the player has the opportunity to interupt it. When the mesmer uses moa morph. the player will have the opportunity to dodge or interupt it.

Really the only reason that Mesmers are winning MOST fights is because almost 50 percent of there opponents have not mastered this technique. And as a results they have a huge advantage over other players regardless of profession. It could be 2 mesmer with equal skill. But really if one of them has not mastered this technique as much as the other. Then that mesmer will have a huge advantage!!!

So do you see why my statement is as it is? In all my experience playing every profession including mesmer. This is the only reason Mesmers are at the top. Really 50 percent of opponents as easy wins.....not that hard to figure out why they are at the top!

#49 Angelus359

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:02 PM

nerfing them in other areas, because they're good at confusing players, is not appropriate

#50 beadnbutter32

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:14 PM

A huge commandment drilled into every MMO devs head is that pet classes ( classes that summon some kind of entity to fight for them, be it pets, bots, summons, clones, phantasms etc.) shall NEVER be allowed to be equally as powerful as traditional melee and ranged classes.  Too many players who play the traditional non-pet classes just cannot deal with getting beaten by an pet.  It carries over from PVE where players feel entitled to be able to always beat mobs at their level.  Having to face several at once, no matter how much they may be nerfed by limited time, health etc. is simply too much for them  and they feel like it is unfair.  Most of them never play a pet class and so have no real idea of what the classes weaknesses and shortcomings are.

If you want to PVP, choose any class except a pet class, unless you enjoy swimming against the current.

Edited by beadnbutter32, 27 November 2012 - 09:15 PM.


#51 SpelignErrir

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:57 PM

View Postzeizhi, on 10 October 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

The phantasm cd nerfs...
Mesmer has traits that allow them to decrease the CDs of Phantasms by 40%.
This took these from generally 15s cd to 9s cd.
With this change from 20s cd to 12s cd. Swordsman despite the log has a 20 cd.

The relative power of these traits increased by 33%. They went from decreasing cd by 3 seconds to decreasing them by 4. They made Phantasms builds more reliant on these traits rather than addressing the issue of having two traits that reduce cds by 20%.

Their trait system in general display an entire lack of understanding of what passive abilities should be, but this change specifically displays a failure in identifying problems and making the correct decisions on how to fix them.

Illusionist's celerity reduced the CD of illusion skills by 20%. Phantasmal haste reduces the time inbetween attacks, not inbetween the skills.

#52 Jalliel

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:08 AM

View PostLemuux, on 08 October 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

and mesmers continue to be the WEAKEST class in PVE yay! :D

I've never understood why people say mesmer is weak in PVE. I've never felt weak in PVE (mesmer is my main char) except the first oh, ten lvls or so, but then most noobie chars feel pretty weak lmao




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