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Official Response: Drop Rate of Legendary Precursors

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#1 Khalija

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 05:40 PM

Just a few minutes ago, Linsey Murdock posted ArenaNet's official response to those questioning the rate in which legendary precursors were being created:

Quote

We’ve seen players discussing the topic of crafting legendary precursor weapons and claiming that we’ve made changes to make this more difficult. We’d like to be clear that we did not make any across the board changes to reduce the drop rate, nor was it our intention to significantly increase the difficulty in acquiring these precursor weapons.

We did fix a few bugged recipes that were rewarding Legendary precursors more often than they should have been. These recipes were mostly using Rares in the level 70-75 range and mostly affected the precursors for the greatswords and the dagger. This has had some effect on the drop rate when using lower level rares to attempt to get a precursor but it was never intended for that to be the best way of acquiring these weapons. The recipes for throwing in level 80 exotics have not changed at all.

We have been watching the prices climbing on Legendary precursors and share your concerns about some of them becoming too expensive. We will continue to monitor the situation and will make any adjustments we feel are necessary.


#2 Clarial

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 05:52 PM

I'm relieved that they are monitoring the situation. I have a feeling that while they want Legendary weapons to remain incredibly rare and difficult to get, they do not want the precursors to be completely price gouged and/or skyrocket until only the extremely wealthy may obtain. I think they've already covered "wealth" in the recipes thoroughly enough.

"The recipes for throwing in level 80 exotics have not changed at all". Maybe I'm harping on the language too much, here, but doesn't that sound like she's indicating that there are "recipes", if that only means certain combinations have higher precursor yield chance? /tinfoil hat? Perhaps "recipes" here just means combining exotics.

Edited by Clarial, 08 October 2012 - 05:53 PM.


#3 Oh Vanity

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 05:55 PM

i personally do not think the legendary precursors should be changed at all, and here it states they never increase its difficulty in acquiring in through the mystic forge but removed the Rares which is good.

it is suppose to be difficult to obtain, and expensive as price goes up as everyone is trying to get their legendary

for example in IoJ the Dusk Greatsword is currently at 280-300 gold. leave it at that as even the highest bid is over 200

things are fine as it is because i think like this, I do not want to see 30 people in LA with twilight, that alone makes it too easy to get for eveyrone and it wouldn't be legendary if everyone had the same thing. of corse its all hardwork and some help from others along the way. but prices will not drop, and changing the the RNG of recipe to obtain it shouldn't also

#4 Clarial

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:27 PM

[quote name='Oh Vanity' timestamp='1349718902' post='2003034']
it is suppose to be difficult to obtain, and expensive as price goes up as everyone is trying to get their legendary
[/quote]

I agree that a Legendary should be time consuming, difficult, expensive and of course - rare. Acquiring a Legendary inspite of this represents the dedication, tenacity, and mastery of the player. I'll even agree that 300 gold is acceptable.

But when does it become unacceptable? How about 900 gold? How about 2000 gold? I know it sounds ridiculous right now but unless there is a hard cap on Trading Post sell prices that I'm unaware of, this is quite possible. There's nothing to stop the wealthy few from continually buying up every valuable precursor and driving the price higher and higher. It's already been happening every day for weeks.

Eventually the "difficulty" of the Legendary quest becomes one of several paths:[list=1]
[*]Players just accept the enormous price on the TP and spend months grinding the most efficient gold locations. They do this to buy it outright or to gamble away exotics/rares in the forge.

[*]Players try to learn how to play the market.

[*]Players buy gems.
[/list]
To me, 1 just seems like a monotonous time sink. When most players have exhausted the content and really just want a Legendary more than anything else, most of them are going to take the most efficient gold making route and grind it. But hey, we're already doing that with karma, right?

2 is something everyone tries. My guess is that most learn enough to supplement their grinding income, while the minority is either turned off by the seeming complexity, or, with a little bit of luck and talent, strikes it rich.

3. If you've got the disposable income, why not?

I'm sure there are other options I'm failing to consider right now, these are just the first three that jump out at me. Frankly, none of them seem very Legendary. I think that ArenaNet has otherwise crafted a cute little quest with fair parts grind and fair parts exploration and mastery. Something seems wrong about leaving the longest part of the quest to be directly controlled by the potential greed of the extreme minority of players, doesn't it? Can't we do better?

Edited by Clarial, 08 October 2012 - 06:30 PM.


#5 Gilles VI

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:33 PM

[quote name='Oh Vanity' timestamp='1349718902' post='2003034']
for example in IoJ the Dusk Greatsword is currently at 280-300 gold. leave it at that as even the highest bid is over 200

[/quote]

Prices are same everywhere, TP is cross-server and world-wide. :)

[quote name='Clarial' timestamp='1349720855' post='2003141']

I'm sure there are other options I'm failing to consider right now, these are just the first three that jump out at me. Frankly, none of them seem very Legendary. I think that ArenaNet has otherwise crafted a cute little quest with fair parts grind and fair parts exploration and mastery. Something seems wrong about leaving the longest part of the quest to be directly controlled by the potential greed of the extreme minority of players, doesn't it? Can't we do better?
[/quote]

Yeah that's what I think too. I love how the quest for all gifts is something personal and clear, and then that precursor is random...
That just sucks, that's the only problem I have right now, the random aspect of the precursor..

#6 Mixology

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:53 PM

I've personally spent about 80 gold on the forge and have not gotten a precursor.  I've tried 100s of 80 rares; I've also tried dozens of exotic 80s.  No luck.

Since Anet loves diminishing returns so much, why not add a reverse diminishing return for the forge?  The more you try to create a precursor and fail, the more your % chance of success increases.

Frankly, all these TP trolls and exploiters are jacking up the prices of precursors and the price will only come down when people can be assured the forge has a decent chance of producing a precursor given enough tries.

Edited by Mixology, 08 October 2012 - 06:54 PM.


#7 Oh Vanity

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:04 PM

yeah back then i spent like 20 gold to get mine through the mystic forge then i said. never again. i was already half way or 1/3 to the real price, might as well save up for it. this was like 3 weeks ago.

and for the price to go up to 900, well thats unlikely atm, til it passes 500- then i can see that's a little messed up lol

but if what Gilles VI said "[u]Prices are same everywhere, TP is cross-server and world-wide[/u]." is true

than it should be okay, counting the numerous amount of populated High-servers, there is always going to be couple who actually get that precursor and will instantly put in TP if they don't need. everyday and at least many times in a day i refresh the TP and look around the legendary stuff and i see there is always one new weapon up there from each selection.

we will see how it pans out, they said they are monitoring the situation and know, until they feel right to change something about it i will just wait. but it's their move. i am indifferent about the whole situation. if they do change it or not. i don't mind at all

Edited by Oh Vanity, 08 October 2012 - 07:05 PM.


#8 Lucid Euphoria

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:31 PM

[quote]We have been watching the prices climbing on Legendary precursors and share your concerns about some of them becoming too expensive. We will continue to monitor the situation and will make any adjustments we feel are necessary.[/quote]

At least they feel the same way I feel right now. They probably didnt expect it to be so high because not many people are using the mystic forge as they expected maybe.

#9 Mixology

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:45 PM

Well, I think more people would use the mystic forge if there was some transparency regarding formulas and drop rates.  For me, the forge has been a giant vacuum sucking away my gold.  I truly wish I had simply saved the gold and grinded to buy it from the TP.

#10 Reiden221

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:51 PM

[quote name='Oh Vanity' timestamp='1349723078' post='2003295']

but if what Gilles VI said "[u]Prices are same everywhere, TP is cross-server and world-wide[/u]." is true

[/quote]

This is true, but so far it has no effect on the prices of pre-cursors except that those that got rich quick are able to monopolize them and continue to drive the price up.

It's absurd really.  When looking at the whole recipe... no doubt it drives most people off from even trying, and those that are trying, get to look forward to the ever climbing prices of the pre-cursors.  It's BS.  Legendarys will be rare from the simple fact of the rest of the recipe.  There is no reason to make the pre-cursors so difficult to obtain.. difficult isn't even the word.  You have to be lucky. Period.

#11 Clarial

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:57 PM

[quote name='Oh Vanity' timestamp='1349723078' post='2003295']
yeah back then i spent like 20 gold to get mine through the mystic forge then i said. never again
...
if they do change it or not. i don't mind at all
[/quote]

LOL. Dude, you got incredibly lucky and this isn't your problem - of course you [i]don't care[/i]. If you were out over a hundred gold or more with seemingly no hope of getting it while the market is totally monopolized by a couple of players who are driving the price way beyond what you can make in anything remotely considered an acceptable amount of time, I'm pretty sure you'd be singing a different tune.

#12 evilbob

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:26 PM

"As a quick note, the higher the level and rarity of the things you are throwing into the forge, the better your chances of getting a Legendary Precursor."
- from the same thread

Very interesting.  This certainly flies in the face of some of the advice I've seen about how best to get precursors.

#13 Snowulf

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:39 PM

Made me really sad to see so many people ripping into Murdock like that on the official forums.

#14 Bloggi

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:53 PM

[quote name='Reiden221' timestamp='1349725908' post='2003453']
When looking at the whole recipe... no doubt it drives most people off from even trying, and those that are trying, get to look forward to the ever climbing prices of the pre-cursors.  It's BS.  Legendarys will be rare from the simple fact of the rest of the recipe.  There is no reason to make the pre-cursors so difficult to obtain.. difficult isn't even the word.  You have to be lucky. Period.
[/quote]

The desire for me to ever obtain a legendary weapon has so far been suppressed by the sheer amount of effort required to get it. Maybe in 5 years time when GW2 is well and truly out of fashion and things become super-duper cheap, I'll be thinking differently. But at the rate it's going, I don't see myself *ever* getting a legendary weapon, not that it worries me overtly. I understand that there is an existence of very desirable items that a lot of people simply wouldn't be able to afford.

Like that clifftop mansion with sweeping ocean views I want to buy but it costs $20 million...some things are probably meant to be appreciated from afar rather than us actually owning it. Of course, if you set your goals high, aim high and still miss, you have lost nothing by trying.

#15 st0rmie

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:55 PM

[quote name='Snowulf' timestamp='1349728779' post='2003625']
Made me really sad to see so many people ripping into Murdock like that on the official forums.
[/quote]

Sad but not surprised. The entitlement and unpleasantness of children (and adults who have not passed the social development of children) today never surprises me. It's one of the reasons why I no longer work in the games industry and have no desire to ever do so again.

#16 Bloggi

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:06 PM

[quote name='Snowulf' timestamp='1349728779' post='2003625']
Made me really sad to see so many people ripping into Murdock like that on the official forums.
[/quote]

Like someone once told me: there are people who, by virtue of the fact that they are a paying customer, will take the liberty to abuse a member of staff because they believe they have the right to do so.

That's just poor form and I don't like it either...in my line of work I get that sometimes as well. Some of these folk need to treat others as 'people', as individuals, as they would themselves like to be treated. Unfortunately it doesn't always pan out that nicely.

I think one of the issues that some players have with the game (and to be honest it concerns me as well) is the talk of various bugs or loopholes that had the potential of being abused in early game before the techs got onto it and fixed it. To put it another way, if you had the time or were willing to put in the effort and rushed your toon straight to 80 and did farming, TP trading and mystic forging, you could be a lot better off than the folks down the line who have to play the game as it was intended (ie. without the said exploitable bugs or loopholes, or in the case of the TP, getting the jump on flipping for profit before the market matures). In some cases it's not even loopholes, it might be just the mechanics of the way things used to be, for example running just part of the dungeon to get less tokens (which could be easier than running the entire dungeon to get proportionately more tokens at the very end, assuming you can actually reach the end).

In this sense, I agree somewhat when people said the game wasn't actually finished when it was released. That is, they didn't iron out a lot of the creases before putting this game on the shelves. But knowing that there is competition everywhere (not just in the game industry), I do understand the necessity of rushing to put something out to the public and then taking time in the subsequent months to do damage control. Not that it's correct to do it, but it had to be done. Just my thoughts.

Edited by Xekk, 08 October 2012 - 10:07 PM.


#17 Quixoticism

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:58 PM

[quote name='Oh Vanity' timestamp='1349718902' post='2003034']
things are fine as it is because i think like this, I do not want to see 30 people in LA with twilight, that alone makes it too easy to get for eveyrone and it wouldn't be legendary if everyone had the same thing. of corse its all hardwork and some help from others along the way. but prices will not drop, and changing the the RNG of recipe to obtain it shouldn't also
[/quote]
That is a terrible reason for price gouging.  The reason why Twilight is so popular is because it's the best looking legendary in the game. (We all know that looks are subjective to personal taste, but given to obvious demand and interest in the pre-req and legendary itself, the community has spoken for itself)
It already is one of the more expensive ones to make without the pre-req and I hope that they do something because the rising prices on the top base weapons are getting out of hand.

If you want to see fewer Twilights in the game then the lesser Legendary weapons need to be redesigned so they actually look comparable.

#18 Essence Snow

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:30 PM

I've nvr been a fan of making things less available/likely/acquirable. It mostly leads into a mindset...well I might as well take advantage of whatever I can now, jic it gets harder in the future. Taking advantage could mean many things...mostly things that anet tries to discourage. So in saying that, it seems sorta hypocritical, they try to discourage behavior, yet they implement changes that only encourage it. (too many commas I know)

#19 DouglaCorbi

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:42 AM

[color=#282828][font=tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(229, 236, 238)]i personally do not think the legendary precursors should be changed at al[/background][/size][/font][/color][img]http://www.duanniu.info/9a.jpg[/img][img]http://www.duanniu.info/d.jpg[/img]

#20 Eon Lilu

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:00 AM

I don't like RNG tbh. It sucks.

#21 ilr

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:47 AM

I hate RNG too, but I'm glad to see Linsey staying so active in their communication efforts

#22 Im Legion

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:49 AM

I'll eventually get enough karma from WvW that combining those karma rares will get me my legendary precursor. The prices in the TP can do what they want. Eventually everybody will have a legendary anyway and prices will drop again :P

#23 Fox_LWW

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:11 AM

I feel the current system for legendiary's is gonna burn out allot of people. Either before or after they get it they will get so bored they will leave. I won't lie, i expected better from A-Net and i'm disappointed. This feels like grinding a raid over and over to get the drop you want. (wich they said they wanted to avoid) Legendairy's should be hard to get and should cost tons of gold. But not random. Random only generates hate between people, cause one got lucky without even knowing what he was looking for in the forge, (One person that wanted an exotic for example, and got Dawn and just equiped it because it "looked cool".) and another guy just trows hundreds of sword in the forge and doesn't get a thing.

I haven't even started trying tbh, i'm just slowly collecting the other stuff because i'm affraid i'll burn myself out on the game if i go to fast. I hope they fix this mess but i doubt it.

#24 Copenhagen23

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:24 AM

300g for a precursor is too high. You already need 120g+ for recipes and some materials like Icy Runestones. That alone will take some players a couple months to farm. I've already dropped 40g and failed to get a staff precursor. They should make it so my chances increase if I have a couple gifts in my possession.

#25 Bennyandthejets

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:29 AM

View PostOh Vanity, on 08 October 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

i personally do not think the legendary precursors should be changed at all, and here it states they never increase its difficulty in acquiring in through the mystic forge but removed the Rares which is good.

it is suppose to be difficult to obtain, and expensive as price goes up as everyone is trying to get their legendary

for example in IoJ the Dusk Greatsword is currently at 280-300 gold. leave it at that as even the highest bid is over 200

things are fine as it is because i think like this, I do not want to see 30 people in LA with twilight, that alone makes it too easy to get for eveyrone and it wouldn't be legendary if everyone had the same thing. of corse its all hardwork and some help from others along the way. but prices will not drop, and changing the the RNG of recipe to obtain it shouldn't also

Players that make this argument seem to keep forgetting "The vast majority of the precursors that exist & are currently on TP are the result of lvl 65 exploits."  Very few legitimate precursors are entering the market or have been made.  Players who used the exploit are sitting on dozens of precursors making vast sums of gold, creating a monopoly which is rippling through the entire economy.  People on the official forums have claimed to throw upwards of 1000+ lvl 76-80 rare weapons into the forge & came out with nothing.  I personally have spent upwards of 80g+ throwing nothing but level 80 exotic GS's into the forge & have nothing to show for it. There needs to be a set recipe for precursors.  Mystic clovers are already enough RNG, and the mats combined will total up over 300-400g+ not even counting the precursor.

Edited by Bennyandthejets, 09 October 2012 - 09:47 AM.


#26 Xiondar

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 04:46 PM

The messed up part is I am drawing close to having most of the mats and it will take me longer to grind the gold for the precursor then it takes for the rest of it. The moment I get up to 50g I think to myself "Just a hundred or more left." and then the prices continue to rise faster than I can acquire gold. Do I really need to exploit the TP JUST so I can make enough gold to keep up with the increase in price of the precursors? That's a little jacked up tbh.

I am already doing the hardest part of getting the components. Why should the precursor take longer? It's not like I haven't tried using the Mystic Forge to get it, or going to EVERY dragon when it is up so I have a chance to find it out of the chest, but the RNG in general on the precursors is absurd. The HARDEST part is getting the mats, exploration (Just takes a awhile to do), WvW badges, Karma, 200 SP, Dungeon Tokens, and getting the crafting disciplines to 400 (TIme consuming and costly)  the precursor should be one of the easiest parts imo. The rich should not have the biggest advantage here...

Within the next couple of weeks I should be drawing real close to finishing up getting the all components, but the sad part is... they will just sit in my inventory/bank until I can afford a precursor or by the off chance I get extremely lucky.

Edited by Xiondar, 09 October 2012 - 04:56 PM.


#27 Shiren

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:50 PM

I don't think the most difficult part of getting a legendary should be either buying from other players or RNG gambling on the precurser, that makes them lucky items not hard earned items. It's the same in every MMO, power traders are the one with all the money, they shouldn't be the ones controlling the legendary market, reserving these items for people who don't play the game, but play the TP
.
There is enough of a grind and hard core commitment to obtain every other part of the recipe before the precursor, there's not need to add an abritrary 200-300G price tag from power traders to obtain these items. Their legendary status is well and truly secured with all the other requirements, making the precursers more than 100g is really unecessary and tbh, is only adding a power trading requirement for most people. Money is most efficiently gained from the TP, never playing the game.

I'm happy with someone who has gained all the other items to say they earned their legendaries.

#28 MrForz

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:06 PM

And I thought getting the million of Karma needed was the hardest part. Well.

#29 Vampiresbane

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 05:36 PM

Random question:
Are the tooltips for legendaries red or purple colored?
(gw2 db has them showing red, but the wiki shows purple)

On topic:
Right before prices went way up, 50 gold cost about 200 US dollars.  You might be able to get more gold/gem now, but the conversion still isn't pretty.  I shudder to think how much money folks are paying Arenanet JUST to get a precurser (not even the legendary itself) if they cost upwards of 300g.  Don't even want to think what players will do if the prices go to 500g or 1,000g.

Either way, getting enough gold via disposable income?  Well you must have some SERIOUS disposable income.  Just seems wrong to spend thousands of real life money on a virtual precursor item.  Use that kind of cash to buy a car or make a down payment on a house.

#30 Firstborn12

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:06 PM

Ive notice the price on these Precursor Items on the TP, they cost way too much, we can all agree on that, Ive read what other players have said here on guru about the Mystic Forge, that they waste sooo much gold on rares and extoics and get nothing in return, so if you cant buy them, and you cant Forge them, ...how are you suppose to get them???

I 100% agree they should be hard to get, but there should be some crafting recipe for them. Just for an example, you want to create one of the Greatsword. you get the recipe form that Elona Women ( I forget her name atm) and you craft it, simple. BUT, the it would require a certain amount of Orihalcum Ignot (not ore) for the Blade and the Hilt. a Orihalcum Dowel (Legendary ofc) which would require a certain amount of Anicent Wood Plank (not wood) and Orihalcum Ingots. combine the Dowel with X amount of ectos and X amount of a fine material to get a Orihalcum Imbued Inscription (lengendary). Throw the Legendary Hilt, Blade and Inscription into the mystic forge with a 250 for mystic coin or somthing, and boom, you got your Precursor Item, with the Greatsword, there would be 2 different types of inscription, one for dusk, one for dawn.

Now is this Hard, hellz ya, is it a freakin Lottery, not a chance. this is one example of what they can do. Im sure there are better ways this can be done, but having it be completely random, or buying it off the TP for am insane amount of gold should not be one of them.





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