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Red Headed Stepchild?

mesmer nerf patch

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#1 Wifflebottom

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:25 PM

So are mesmers just Anet's red headed stepchild? Actually are the scholar classes in general red headed stepchildren. These patches never really improve or fix any of the casters, Eles are still pretty unloved, Mesmer phantasm builds are nerfed to the ground and traits are still messed up, and Necromancers... well yeah... they're just no good. Do they want more people to play warriors, thieves, rangers, and guardians?

#2 NuclearDonut

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:27 PM

I feel like Mesmers are in a solid spot right now, even with some things not working correctly. I can own in PvP and still be a great asset to my team in PvE. However, I can't say the same for the rest of the scholars, they need some work.

#3 Nibiru23

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 11:10 AM

In PvP Mesmer is fine but in PvE is not the same, are we good? yes we are but just try to play Warrior and Guardian, the diference is extremely HUGE.

Ele are really weak ( low HP and low Attack), they have to rely on Burning.

#4 Dirame

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 11:22 AM

Necromancers are awesome in PvP and PvE, it's all about brain power and speed when it comes to those guys, elementalists are awesome in PvP and PvE but people seem to think they are not as good as the other professions and Mesmers are seemingly too confusing for the average player to keep up with.

#5 Vihar

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:05 PM

As someone with a fully geared 80 Ele, and just re-rolled Mez...Mez had FAR more DPS and a LOT more HP than Ele does.

   So, for me, Mez seems very powerful.

    It is a great support class, and I can grind much easier than with my Ele.

   I found it amusing that I took my level 14 Mez into WvW and had more HP and did more DPS than my fully geared 80 Elementalist.

   Necro....I think necro is fine. They lack burst, but they are the Cloth Tank...something the other cloth classes are far from.

   I think that if you are looking to rely on illusions for DPS, then you may be a bit underwhelming as a Mez. That is not the direction I took mine, though, so I am feeling pretty good.

#6 Parthis

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:09 PM

View PostNibiru23, on 10 October 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

In PvP Mesmer is fine but in PvE is not the same, are we good? yes we are but just try to play Warrior and Guardian, the diference is extremely HUGE.

As someone who rerolled from a geared level 80 guardian to Mesmer (now 80) I have to disagree with this. I've found my Mesmer to be just as potent as a guardian. Excellent mobility, very good damage and interesting mechanics make for a class that is more than just In->Smash->Loot.

#7 Pysgasm

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:34 PM

Could you please explain

View PostMr_Original, on 08 October 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

phantasm builds are nerfed to the ground

I'm sorry but phantasm build isn't even our best Spvp/WvW spec... It's the spec that most new mesmers gravitate too because its very succesfull at PvE play in earlier stages of the game. It's decent in SPvP and completely pointless in WvW unless you're solo running looking for ganks. The only phantasm I even rely on in WvW is ibeserker (no change to its CD) for attacking keep/tower wall defenders. They didn't nerf any of our clone factory builds, condition damage, etc etc...

Edited by Pysgasm, 10 October 2012 - 03:35 PM.


#8 Hargrik

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:49 PM

IMO the Mesmer is fine in every aspect of the game, including PvE. I'll stop commenting now before ArenaNet decides to really nerf us.

#9 tangoesp

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 04:29 PM

I love mesmer on pve. Our feedback bubble is a great CC for range minions on explo mode. And our portal is awesome to pass throw traps. And don't forget our 10 second of 10 man party. Put a mesmer on your party. Everything will be better!

#10 Wifflebottom

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 06:02 PM

View PostPysgasm, on 10 October 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

Could you please explain


I'm sorry but phantasm build isn't even our best Spvp/WvW spec... It's the spec that most new mesmers gravitate too because its very succesfull at PvE play in earlier stages of the game. It's decent in SPvP and completely pointless in WvW unless you're solo running looking for ganks. The only phantasm I even rely on in WvW is ibeserker (no change to its CD) for attacking keep/tower wall defenders. They didn't nerf any of our clone factory builds, condition damage, etc etc...
I never said phantasm builds were the best build but it was one of our options that was easy for non-mesmers players to avoid being destroyed by them if the players simply took time to understand the class, but no they went and cried until Anet whipped out the nerf bat. But this isn't just about the mesmers, it's casters in general that seem to be on the negative end of the profession spectrum. Eles have way too much risk with little reward and necros are only efficient in condition builds. Talk to anyone that's played an Ele to 80 and then rerolled as a guardian or warrior, chances are they weren't happy about how those two classes can just sit there while dishing out big damage and putting so little effort into it.

#11 jondifool

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 06:20 PM

I have alot of respect for what ArenaNet have achived with the classes in this game. But so far it really looks like patches mostly adress PvP issues. This means that for every class hit in PvE they have to rebuild their character.

But since shatter builds was not hit, and use of phantasms against champion just takes a little longer to setup, its still easy to find a workable build for mesmer.

So mesmer is not the red headed stepchild in that sense, but in the way that it still suffers from being the last class they really had ready, it do feel like a unfinished projeckt in some areas.

I really hope they will let the mesmer do the phantasm attack also as part of his summoning of a phantasm to make him more engaging to play, and give some more front load damage that makes sense. And then they should rather nerf the phantasm damage output that their recharge rate imho

#12 Sunshine_N_Rainbows

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:32 PM

I started playing a bit of sPVP today and had no problem being top scorer (against scrubs) with a phantasm build with ibeserker and ideulist main, all you have to do is switch weapons. With decoy, blink and clones on roll mesmers are still an incredibly powerful pvp class. And the survivability with regen on phantasm and prot on regen speced is pretty incredible. The only thing that really miffed me was when they nerfed chaos storm. IMO chaos storm was fine at 30 second CD. As for the other scholar classes you may be right. My engi outdamages both of them in PVE.

#13 Cebbar

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 09:39 AM

View PostParthis, on 10 October 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

As someone who rerolled from a geared level 80 guardian to Mesmer (now 80) I have to disagree with this. I've found my Mesmer to be just as potent as a guardian. Excellent mobility, very good damage and interesting mechanics make for a class that is more than just In->Smash->Loot.
Gotta say I found the same.  I had a Guardian at L80, and now a Mesmer.

I've tried both other light armour professions to L80 also and I have to say, Mesmer was the most fun of all of them, was the most resilient, very mobile, decent damage without needing to gear well (this only applies after L35, before L35 it was torture ^^ )

I think though, when people don't find themselves doing well on one of the scholar professions, they claim it's underpowered.  Actually I believe it's simply misunderstood.  Elementalist will suffer this more than others I think as players will try to play it like a typical "MMO Mage" and ... I just don't think it's like that.  Necro, people keep running around with minions, I see them everywhere.  I dropped minions early on and started bleeding things and using wells supportively as well as offensively, and suddenly the profession became so much more engaging.

Mesmer was by far the easiest to get to grips with in PvE and PvP.  I think many of our utility skills are very situational on the whole though, or have too long a cooldown to be truly useful.  I almost always find myself using Decoy, Blink, Feedback, Null Field and sometimes Mirror Images (not all at the same time, obviously) since I find most of the others to be only useful in rare circumstances.

View Postjondifool, on 10 October 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

But so far it really looks like patches mostly adress PvP issues. This means that for every class hit in PvE they have to rebuild their character.

It's always going to be this way.  I suppose this is why there are racial skills.  At least racial skills are not available in sPvP so are not subject to quite such harsh balancing (notwithstanding the fact that they're not designed to be as strong as profession-specific skills anyway).

I disliked their decision to start with all the PvE-only skills in Guild Wars 1, and split other skills into PvE and PvP versions.  I understand why they did it but it got messier and messier as the game got harder and harder to balance for PvP.  I primarily play PvE at the moment, and don't really mind too much when skills are changed if there's a good enough reason for it.

#14 MisfitAndy

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 09:52 AM

View PostCebbar, on 17 October 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:



I've tried both other light armour professions to L80 also and I have to say, Mesmer was the most fun of all of them, was the most resilient, very mobile, decent damage without needing to gear well (this only applies after L35, before L35 it was torture ^^ )

I think though, when people don't find themselves doing well on one of the scholar professions, they claim it's underpowered.  Actually I believe it's simply misunderstood.  Elementalist will suffer this more than others I think as players will try to play it like a typical "MMO Mage" and ... I just don't think it's like that.



Alright, so what is an elementalist supposed to be like?  Because right now it does less burst dps than just about every other class, is squishier (unless specced heavily into defense and giving up all offense) than any other class.  Are we supposed to be the one healer class in the game?  Because I didn't sign up for that.  No other class has to be forced into a support role.

#15 Sunshine_N_Rainbows

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 12:49 AM

There were some eles earlier today as well as the other day that absolutely railed me on my Mes. Today that sat on cliffs on capricorn and spammed AOE. The other day they used some sort of wierd lightning melee build that had quick burst and tons of disable.

#16 Cebbar

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:11 AM

View PostMisfitAndy, on 17 October 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

Alright, so what is an elementalist supposed to be like?  Because right now it does less burst dps than just about every other class, is squishier (unless specced heavily into defense and giving up all offense) than any other class.  Are we supposed to be the one healer class in the game?  Because I didn't sign up for that.  No other class has to be forced into a support role.
I never said I knew what an Elementalist is supposed to be like, I think players haven't really worked out how to use it.

In Guild Wars 1, at least the 4 years I was playing it, Elementalist was reduced to support roles generally.  Physicals do more damage, and have higher bursts.  From what I've seen in GW2 this is still true.  I have a L80 Ele and have Berserker's everything, for PvE only, and have been doing "ok" damage.  I'm struggling to see how it's good at supporting without the need for voice communication since players generally run out of the AoE healing.  Anyway that's an Elementalist debate, not a Mesmer one.

There isn't "one healer", you should know this by now.  If Ele is your profession, in my view you chose a tricky one to work with.

#17 MisfitAndy

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 08:24 AM

View PostCebbar, on 18 October 2012 - 07:11 AM, said:

I never said I knew what an Elementalist is supposed to be like, I think players haven't really worked out how to use it.

In Guild Wars 1, at least the 4 years I was playing it, Elementalist was reduced to support roles generally.  Physicals do more damage, and have higher bursts.  From what I've seen in GW2 this is still true.  I have a L80 Ele and have Berserker's everything, for PvE only, and have been doing "ok" damage.  I'm struggling to see how it's good at supporting without the need for voice communication since players generally run out of the AoE healing.  Anyway that's an Elementalist debate, not a Mesmer one.

There isn't "one healer", you should know this by now.  If Ele is your profession, in my view you chose a tricky one to work with.

Of course there are other classes that can heal, but elementalist is stuck in a support/healer role.  To the best of my knowledge no other class is in that position currently.





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