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After 100s of hours, my final Guardian Build

altrusitic healing shouts guardian tank dps

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#1 Strife025

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:42 PM

Guardian "Anchor" Build through Altruistic Healing

Video Guide found below:


Speed runs of various dungeons can be found on my page so you can see the build in action, more are being added every week:
https://www.youtube.com/strife025

I have also received feedback on what builds we use for warriors and mesmers, my recent guide regarding this subject can be found in the respective subforum:
http://www.guildwars...-dungeon-build/
http://www.guildwars...dungeon-groups/
_______________________________________________________________________________
Updated 2/24/13:

Overview:
This guide should provide you a starting point for running Guardian in an organized dungeon group that focuses on speed runs. Because of the nature of both traits and utilities, Guardian is the best "tanky" class to use as an anchor in organized dungeon runs. What this means is that typically in speed runs, you want one class that has higher toughness then the other 4 classes, and is built to survive while holding agro without giving up too much dps. This is what this build allows you to do, while giving the other party members freedom to run full berserker to focus on DPS. In my personal groups, we run 1 guard/3 war/1 mesmer as seen from my other guides and dungeon walkthroughs, while in high level fractals where reflections are key, this can be changed to 2 guard/2 war/1 mes. Below I will explain the reasoning behind my choices, and you also have the option to watch my various dungeon guides from different class perspectives to see how it all works out in a real world setting.
______________________________________________________________________

Build & Equipment:
http://gw2buildcraft...d.17.16.19.1i|e

Thanks to gw2buildcraft, you can now see all my gear and traits in the link above. Instead of listing everything out, I will explain why I went knights armor, berserker ascended gear, and list my full weapon choices below.

As far as gear goes, the reason you go for Berserker Ascended gear is because it has the highest crit damage ratios besides exquisite jewels, per below:
  • 5 stat points - upgrade slot of trinkets and backpack
  • 7 points - Ascended Back Piece
  • 8.5 stat points - Ascended Rings
  • 8.7 stat points - Ascended Earrings
  • 9.4 stat points - Ascended Amulet
  • 10 stat points- traits (not an equipment, but listed for comparison)
  • 12 stat points - glove, shoulder and boots
  • 12.8 stat points - 1H weapons and amulet
  • 13.33 stat points - Earring
  • 14 stat points - Backpack (rare version from guild armorsmith)
  • 14.22 stat points - 2H weapons
  • 14.4 stat points - Coat
  • 16 stat points - Ring, helm and legging
What this means is, you lose less minor stat points by going for berserker gear higher on the list if you are making a balanced build with knights/berserker pieces. With Knights weapons, I also have the ability to switch to ascended berserker earrings in the future when they are released, while still maintaining close to 3k armor and most likely having good berserker ratios still.

Soldier Runes are one of the best runes in my opinion, by having three AoE shouts which also remove conditions, it really frees up the utility slots of the other 4 members of your group. A big part of being a successful guardian, is watching that party window and knowing when to use shouts for both condition removal and also minimizing damage. These runes are also extremely valuable when running through trash of various dungeons, especially harder runs like in TA or Arah.

The following list are the weapons I use which are statted based on the situation/combination I use them in:
Greatsword with Power/Prec/Toughness and 5% crit chance sigil
Hammer with Power/Prec/Toughness and 5% crit chance
Staff with Prec/Vit/Healing and 50% energy on swap
Scepter with Power/Prec/Tough and 50% energy on swap
Focus with Power/Prec/Crit and 5% crit chance
Shield with Power/Tough/Vit and 5% crit chance
Sword with Power/Prec/Crit and Bloodlust +10 power stacks
Mace with Power/Tough/Vit and 30% chance to heal
I don't have/use a torch.

Knights gear (Power/Prec/Toughness) can be crafted or comes from SE and Arah dungeon tokens.
Berserker gear (Power/Prec/Crit Dmg) can be crafted or comes from CoF, CoE, and Arah dungeon tokens.

The reason I took the sigils I did in the weapons I did are because of the situations and combinations I use them in.

Greatsword and Hammer with 5% crit chance are their for both increased damage from criticals, and also because crit chance synergizes well with life steal food and AH.

Staff and Scepter with Energy Sigils are so I always have that extra dodge available when I need to get out of melee range. This allows me to instantly dodge + heal in any situation, sit back and stack might stacks with staff 4 (more heals) or range dps with scepter in the rare instance I need to get out of melee range because of low health.

By keeping the 5% crit chance runes on my offhand weapons, I will always have 5% crit with my 1-hand weapons.

Now this gear isn't set in stone for this build, this is just what I've found from play experience works for me and my group. Around 3k armor allows the Guardian to maintain agro from the 4 other berserker classes who have ~2100 armor (or less in the mesmer's case). The lower your armor value falls, the harder it is to maintain agro. 3k is a good balance with the current ascended gear that allows you to draw agro and still do respectable damage as the tanky anchor role.

If you need more survivability or don't have ascended gear, you can always go more knights jewelery. If you WvW alot, then arguably P/V/T gear is better then berserker as well, where more health is key and berserker gear on a guardian isn't really ideal. It just depends on your playstyle and what you enjoy doing.

Also for any high crit % class, Omnomberry Ghosts/Pies (or even lesser versions like Mixed Berry and Blackberry) are a key component to survival. <Edit> This food now has an internal cooldown of 1s, meaning you can only heal at most, once every second, which realistically, is probably more along the lines of ~1.5s on average. It is still the best food for getting back health in a high crit build though, so I still use it on all my classes for harder encounters. For pure damage, something like the 100 power/70 precision food will be better, or other pure damage foods when you don't need healing.
______________________________________________________________________

Basics:
First off, the actual build is a typical boon/shout build that heals. This is NOT a pure support build, it is a tanky DPS build whose primary focus is to deal moderate damage while relieving pressure from your party as the anchor. Many people don't seem to realize how valuable Altruistic Healing is in a group setting, while both allowing you to passively support through shouts, soak damage, and still deal significant amounts of damage yourself.

The first thing you want is enough health to survive conditions and large spikes, but not spec too much health where it dimishes your effective hp from healing. In PvE vitality on gear isn't required, because of the lower amount of conditions in most instances and the fact that most large damage moves can be avoided through dodging. The toughness from all gear slots really helps to increase your e-hp because of the huge amount of heals the guardian has making toughness more valuable once you get an adequate hp pool. In addition, you have a large amount of power for direct damage and retaliation damage, plus precision (and bonus from the major trait) to push your crit chance up to levels where you will apply might stacks and life steal procs from crit a good amount of the time.

As far as Greatsword vs Hammer is concerned, they are good for different reasons. If you know you won't need ranged weapons at all, then having both on swap is ideal. In high level fractals if you run 2 guardians, you always want one with Hammer and one with GS, with Scepter/Focus or Shield on your offhand.

Greatsword's strength comes from it's AoE pull, the blind/leap, and the burst heal from Whirling Wrath coupled with Life Steal food.
Hammer's strength comes from near 100% protection uptime, more sustained healing from the symbol ticking on a 5 melee group, and Ring of Warding for certain pulls to interrupt groups of mobs.

Learning when each weapon is valuable is just something that comes from playing Guardian and getting your own experience. I will say that I primarily use Greatsword, Hammer, Staff, and Scepter/Focus and don't really touch the other weapons that often.
______________________________________________________________________

Traits:
The main focus of this build is Altruistic Healing in the Valor Line. This coupled with the more crit based traits in the Honor line, and a high crit chance/toughness build, allows you to be the anchor for your group so that the other 4 members can focus on DPS.

With Altruistic healing your base heal per boon with this build is 72 for each boon per person (including yourself). In addition, all symbols which continuously proc 1 sec boons will heal at every tick and might stacks act as individual boons meaning 5 might stacks = 5x72.
Virtue of resolve = 102 per tick
Regeneration buff = 168 per tick
Dodge Roll Heal = 429 heal per roll in AoE

As you can see, we have a large amount of ways to keep sustained healing. If you are able to time your dodge rolls (also why I use superior sigil of energy on certain weapons) you can "tank" for a good portion of time, including protection boons.

The Honor line focuses more on cooldowns and utilizing crits through Empowering Might and Vigorous precision. You also have the option to run Pure of Voice which stacks with runes of the soldier in the rare case you need even more condition removal.

The main reason you put your last 10 points in virtues is for the excellent options that it gives you for reflects, which are key in a few named dungeons and a variety of fractals, especially at 30+. The added benefit is that all your virtues proc boons on your group, which is nice with AH as well.

Skills:
Shouts will be the primary utility skills that you will be using. They synergize with AH to give you heals, provide valuable defensive boons for the entire party, and remove conditions with Soldier Runes.

The two shouts you will have on most of the time are 'Hold the Line' and 'Stand Your Ground'. These are both low cooldown to utilize condition removal, and 'Stand Your Ground' especially is valuable for a variety of boss and trash run encounters to prevent yourself from being knocked down or stunned.

Your third utility slot will be situational with either reflects, or 'Retreat'/'Save Yourselves'. Retreat should be used for trash running and for any fight where an extra Aegis would be extremely useful, like the Destroyer in CoE 3. 'Save Yourselves' is great for taking multiple conditions from your party, as a 2nd stun breaker, or for any fights where you really don't need an extra Aegis for the group and you find yourself holding more agro where the boon uptime would be more beneficial.

As far as reflects go, your primary options are either Wall of Reflection or Shield of the Avenger (Spirit Shield). In general, you will be using Wall of Reflection most of the time, because it actually reflects damage and has a shorter cooldown. On a few fractals, you will want both wall and shield up, which is most prevalent in the Harpy fractal. 100% reflection uptime from 2 guardians makes fractals like the harpy and shaman fractal extremely easy, which is one huge benefit of guardians in your group. Because Spirit Shield can now take damage and be destroyed, you do need to be smarter in it's placement so it will still absorb projectiles but not be hit by melee attacks.

The dungeons where I generally use reflects include:
- CM dungeon
- Certain bosses in TA
- Certain bosses in SE
- Magg Defend in CoF
- Certain bosses in HotW
- Certain bosses in Arah
- All of Harpy Fractal
- All of Dredge Fractal
- Both bosses in Shaman Fractal
- Both bosses in Swamp Fractal
- Situationally in Ascalon Fractal
- At the Ice Elemental in Snow Fractal
- Situationally in Colossus Fractal

There could be some areas I'm forgetting, but for the most part, those are the key areas where reflects are valuable. Part of learning the Guardian class is just knowing when you will need to swap skills for certain situations, which really applies to all classes.
______________________________________________________________________

Conclusion:
This is obviously not the only way to play guardian, and for many people may not even be the "best." There are many other viable guardian builds based on a situation or playstyle. From my personal experience though, I believe this is the "best" build for me. It is highly flexible, does good damage, provides excellent support for a speed run group running 4 berserker classes, and can be used for a variety of settings.

Hopefully this will help some other guardians out, especially for running some of the harder dungeons in the game.

Good luck!

Edited by Strife025, 18 March 2013 - 07:06 PM.


#2 cheezewiz

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:48 AM

signet of resolve and purity?

#3 Rukioish

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:50 AM

this thread contains an unacceptable "/"'s to text ratio.

#4 Strife025

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:58 AM

View Postcheezewiz, on 09 October 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

signet of resolve and purity?

huh?

Signet of Resolve for the heal, what about purity?

#5 cheezewiz

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:00 AM

signet of resolve already removes a condition every 10 seconds...why would you choose purity in your T2 of valor? Isnt that redundant?

#6 Necaust

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:58 AM

That's basically my build except 0/5/30/30/5. I like the additional buffs from 5 in virtues. I also use Hammer as my primary weapon so I usually run Pure of Voice instead of 2h trait. I switch to 2h when I want to combine staff for frequent area denials. (Damn Arah spiders) The build is rather flexible and yes...I utilize that dodge like an extra heal. I can tank a ton of stuff that I never could stand toe to toe with before but there remains some bosses/dungeon packs that are beyond me.

#7 QuackzMcDuck

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:23 AM

View PostStrife025, on 08 October 2012 - 11:42 PM, said:

Overview:
Okay this may sound crazy (so here's my number.. j/k) but I actually have 2x 80 guardians (long story, basically started necro main, guardian alt for farming, loved guardian, hated necro, but hated charr, rerolled human after wasting tokens, badges, and like 20g on my old guardian, blah) and have gone through and tested a variety of builds. I've finally decided on my primary build, and I must say, I love it.


If you don't mind me asking what was your reason for hating charr? I was thinking of making a charr guardian because I see way to many human,norn, and asura.

Is the reason you rerolled from charr purely your opinion or is there really something wrong with them?

I don't know if I want to take the 'hipster' route and roll a norn/human

Edited by QuackzMcDuck, 09 October 2012 - 02:27 AM.


#8 foofad

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:25 AM

How do you deal with mobility issues? All you have is one leap. I would sacrifice Stand your Ground for Judge's Intervention for WvW, or you'll be spending a lot of time not being able to even hit anything.

#9 Wifflebottom

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:26 AM

I still understand why you would make 2 of the same class? :huh:

#10 Majic

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:20 AM

View Postcheezewiz, on 09 October 2012 - 01:00 AM, said:

signet of resolve already removes a condition every 10 seconds...why would you choose purity in your T2 of valor? Isnt that redundant?

I've been wondering about this, because I really like automatic condition removal (a lot), and would like to know how this shakes out in practice.

That is to say, do both work as advertised when used together, or does one effectively overwrite the other leaving only one condition removed every ten seconds?

Were there not so many bugs in various skills and traits (my "main" is a Mesmer), I wouldn't ask, but since there are, I am left to wonder, and testing it can be tricky. :)

#11 Beezarre

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:04 AM

View Postcheezewiz, on 09 October 2012 - 01:00 AM, said:

signet of resolve already removes a condition every 10 seconds...why would you choose purity in your T2 of valor? Isnt that redundant?

with signet of resolve passive+purity, you remove 2 conditions every 10sec (ref:http://www.guildwars...mystery-solved/)

i use 0/5/30/30/5 and use shelter instead of signet of passive. the infinite block in 2 secs is too priceless to be replaced.

#12 Strife025

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:06 AM

View Postcheezewiz, on 09 October 2012 - 01:00 AM, said:

signet of resolve already removes a condition every 10 seconds...why would you choose purity in your T2 of valor? Isnt that redundant?
1. Not many useful traits for shout build since I don't really care about meditations, hardly use mace, the shield trait is good but I rarely use shield, and +30 toughness is pretty underwhelming at 80.
2. They will both remove a condition, and many times resolve will be down because I used a heal so it's good to have something else up because resolve doesn't work on cooldown.

View Postfoofad, on 09 October 2012 - 02:25 AM, said:

How do you deal with mobility issues? All you have is one leap. I would sacrifice Stand your Ground for Judge's Intervention for WvW, or you'll be spending a lot of time not being able to even hit anything.
Yes for WvW JI is good, like I said it's flexible, the shout build is what I use for dungeons. GS + Pull is still a decent initiator as well.

Like people said, shelter is good in WvW also but Resolve is superior for sPvP and PvE in most cases imho.

View PostQuackzMcDuck, on 09 October 2012 - 02:23 AM, said:

If you don't mind me asking what was your reason for hating charr? I was thinking of making a charr guardian because I see way to many human,norn, and asura.

Is the reason you rerolled from charr purely your opinion or is there really something wrong with them?

I don't know if I want to take the 'hipster' route and roll a norn/human
It's all cosmetic. Some armor looks bad on them and pretty much all helmets look  terrible. I also don't like their large size, arched neck, and running on all 4s. I just didn't want to look at an ugly cat with badly fitted armor for the next 100s of hours, especially after spending gold and time getting cool looking sets.

Edited by Strife025, 09 October 2012 - 07:07 AM.


#13 cheezewiz

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:49 PM

View PostBeezarre, on 09 October 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:



with signet of resolve passive+purity, you remove 2 conditions every 10sec (ref:http://www.guildwars...mystery-solved/)

i use 0/5/30/30/5 and use shelter instead of signet of passive. the infinite block in 2 secs is too priceless to be replaced.

Oh I didn't know that. Thanks!

#14 Slivers

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:44 PM

Strife -

Thanks for being bored at work :) The build and information is greatly appreciated and very well done.

I've been using one of the cookie cutter builds, 0-20-0-30-20, since reaching 80 and spending nearly all my time in Orr.  The guild of friends I am in hasn't been able to play much over the past months and any extra time they have I spend helping them level.

I've been contemplating a different build for Dungeons when we start them, but, no matter how hard I try, I just could not find something I believe would "fit" me and be better than my current build. The linchpin for me is that Honor needs 30 points; not differing in your build either.  Actually, instead of "needs 30", I should have said "needed 30".

The old Greatsword's Wrath+Whirl every 8 seconds and its condition removal was pretty significant to my play and DPS.  Now, I am finding myself wanting slightly more condition removal and flexibility in play style coupled with the boredom of the "updated" Greatsword setting in.  This has also got me thinking, "Is the 20% 2H reduction absolutely necessary?"

And so, I thought I would ask you :rolleyes: Do you think it is still necessary as part of the build? Or is removing it and going to a slightly altered build of yours viable:

http://gw2skills.net...DEETBGh/1DK6QGC

Although the 2H Reduction is lost, the gain adds both Renewed Justice and Inspired Virtue affecting Altruistic Healing significantly in many circumstances.  But is it worth?!

Thanks!

#15 Strife025

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:10 PM

View PostSlivers, on 09 October 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

Strife -

Thanks for being bored at work :) The build and information is greatly appreciated and very well done.

I've been using one of the cookie cutter builds, 0-20-0-30-20, since reaching 80 and spending nearly all my time in Orr.  The guild of friends I am in hasn't been able to play much over the past months and any extra time they have I spend helping them level.

I've been contemplating a different build for Dungeons when we start them, but, no matter how hard I try, I just could not find something I believe would "fit" me and be better than my current build. The linchpin for me is that Honor needs 30 points; not differing in your build either.  Actually, instead of "needs 30", I should have said "needed 30".

The old Greatsword's Wrath+Whirl every 8 seconds and its condition removal was pretty significant to my play and DPS.  Now, I am finding myself wanting slightly more condition removal and flexibility in play style coupled with the boredom of the "updated" Greatsword setting in.  This has also got me thinking, "Is the 20% 2H reduction absolutely necessary?"

And so, I thought I would ask you :rolleyes: Do you think it is still necessary as part of the build? Or is removing it and going to a slightly altered build of yours viable:

http://gw2skills.net...DEETBGh/1DK6QGC

Although the 2H Reduction is lost, the gain adds both Renewed Justice and Inspired Virtue affecting Altruistic Healing significantly in many circumstances.  But is it worth?!

Thanks!

Sure that build is viable, I understand that 15 in radiance is awesome for farming especially and might stacks are always great. While leveling up I always had at least 10-15-0-0-5 since leveling is mindless and easy.

Really my decision came down to this:
1. With full mf gear for farming, you do extremely high damage because of all the pwr/precision. Because of shouts + traits I really never have a risk of dieing, even when I pull 4-5 mobs. 15 in Radiance also excels a bit more if you take 10 in zeal for increased burning damage. It comes down to is the blind and few might stacks worth the decrease in dps from less GS skills (and more blinds from leap)? On top of that you are more mobile running around to DEs because of more leaps and staff speed buffs in PvE overworld.

2. In dungeons, the hardest content is going to be bosses most of the time. The hardest non-bosses are still silver mobs, and except for certain events, you're usually only fighting a 2-3 mobs at a time. In a dungeon setting I believe the 20% cooldown is superior. You also have to think of the 20% increase in might stacks with staff 4 skill to offset 5 in Virtues, the 20% more WWs with GS that both increase your dps and stack vigor stacks like crazy (might on crit is 1s internal cooldown, but vigor doesn't), and the increase in leaps for blind. In all the hard settings, I don't really think the refresher is worth 20% longer cooldowns on basically all my weapon skills since I primarily use 2-handers. Basically 20% cooldowns gives you more control. Over a 5-minute boss fight that 20% is huge. It let's you use a variety of skills for given situations much faster, and offers far more benefit and flexibility then 15 in radiance which basically has no impact in a boss fight or hard vet/champion mobs.

Those are just my thoughts on why I took 0-10-30-30-0 instead of the other way, because I did think about it since I've used 15-5 for a long time as well.

I get your point about altruistic and being able to stack might on everyone quickly, but usually when you're fighting a ton of mobs that are dieing quickly the content isn't hard, so healing isn't as important. When healing is important your are probably fighting harder mobs, which usually means silver+. In those instances 20% cooldown is far superior.

Edited by Strife025, 09 October 2012 - 03:12 PM.


#16 Izokka

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:32 PM

I really liked the build but siget of judgement is so awesome that i cant live without it
I mean i dont use it. I justt leave it on the 9th slot for the -10 damage reduction

Edited by Izokka, 09 October 2012 - 05:57 PM.


#17 Slivers

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:54 PM

Thanks, Strife.  I sort of figured as much but you firmed up and added more significance to the trade off.

Again, thanks!

Edit:
One more question - Rune of Soldier versus 40% Boon Duration Collection of Monk-Water-Sanctuary?

Edited by Slivers, 09 October 2012 - 03:59 PM.


#18 Strife025

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:37 PM

View PostSlivers, on 09 October 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

Thanks, Strife.  I sort of figured as much but you firmed up and added more significance to the trade off.

Again, thanks!

Edit:
One more question - Rune of Soldier versus 40% Boon Duration Collection of Monk-Water-Sanctuary?

I debated this forever as well, and in the future I may buy a second dungeon set with different stats/looks and socket protection and boon duration into it. Basically, it came down to conditions. I felt Soldier was more flexible because it frees up a tier 3 major trait which is huge, but still gives you the flexibility to take that tier 3 trait with soldier rune for heavy condition fights. Granted, an extra 50% protection and 30% all other boons is huge (I was looking at earth rune for 20% prot + 2x 15% all duration), but I figured if I wanted to go a buff build I would have gone into Virtues a bit more instead.

By not going Soldier, you basically need to take more active condition reducing skills, because the condition removal every 10 seconds isn't going to cut it without an active way to remove conditions or use your major trait and give up either 20% cooldown or might on crits. The easiest way would basically be through meditations (or Prayer of Kormar since I'm human), meaning I would have to give up a skill slot or trait solely for conditions.

It really just comes down to play style, because both are viable, it just depends if you want to take more of a supportive role or not. I like to think I'm fairly good at most dungeons now and have been playing MMOs for ever, so I like to take control, especially in PUGs. Support boon runes/build with shouts is great, but for my playstyle I just prefer Soldier and a free major trait and more flexible skillsets compared to longer boon times. It just lets me do alot more of what I like to do with my playstyle, which is really what it comes down to.

If you are running in a dedicated 5-man all the time I could see the boon duration being huge though.

Edited by Strife025, 09 October 2012 - 05:39 PM.


#19 cheezewiz

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:42 PM

am i the only one that like using large, healing symbols? i find when farming events in orr and champ/boss encounters the protection symbol from the hammer is quite usefull for large groups. Healing and putting up the protection boon for all the people whithin meele range of the boss. And i switch to mace/shield if it gets really cracy and i find the survivability really good. Correct me if im wrong but im pretty sure the mystic symbol you put down with your mace heals you with regen plus another heal for the actual symbol? Im usually running 0/15/20/30/5 with cleric gear and its been great in orr. Havnt done much dungeons yet tho.

#20 GrayGardner

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:20 PM

could you post a picture of your stats? ^^ just wanted to see how you look, and how do that stats end up like.

#21 Strife025

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:36 PM

Symbols are mainly for yourself imho, 3/4 symbols aren't targetable and even with increased size, they are still relatively small when you're talking about "combat area".

Due to the dynamic way battles are fought with people constantly moving and dodging in melee range, the fact that most hard mobs have cleave so everyone but the person being targeted should be on the sides/back anyways, and at least 2-3 people in the party are usually at range, I feel symbols are very limiting. With the damage that silver+ mobs do in dungeons, it is not worth clumping up just to get some minor healing, when you can just use things like shouts and Battle Presence instead. If symbols were 'auras' instead that followed you around that would be different, but having a static location is just weak imho.

DEs and such are far different then the actual hard content. Pretty much anything and everything works for Orr. My build is more for challenging PvE content and small scale WvW where you're not going to have a large group of people sitting in a small symbol for any amount of time.

For sure you can use cleric gear with a support build and going mace, and I'm sure there's people discussing those builds. But most people, including myself, just find symbols too rigid for full support when you can go something like shouts with increased boon duration instead and still use cleric gear.

I would also only go +healing gear if you plan on going full support. Healing gear is only worth it if you plan on going a support build for your group. If you are going healing gear, the ratios are just not worth it for your personal healing. It starts getting viable when you are throwing out heals, regen, dodge heals, and resolve passives for your entire group which means it is benefiting 5 people instead of just 1. For solo play, pure offensive/defensive combat stats would be much more beneficial.

So basically, because of the rigid structure of symbols, and the fact that they will only benefit a portion of your party, I don't really find them viable as the main focus of a support build. By no means does that mean write symbols off, because they are useful and extremely good for yourself and when you can hit other people with them. But I wouldn't base a support/healing build entirely around symbol traits.

View PostGrayGardner, on 09 October 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

could you post a picture of your stats? ^^ just wanted to see how you look, and how do that stats end up like.

Yea when I get home I can, I do most of my posting from work since that's the best time to post :P When I'm home I'm probably playing games... only 1 more hour!

But yea, I'll post a SS later sometime, better yet, I may try and fraps a video tonight of a couple edited dungeon runs and upload it. We'll see if I can get to it.

Edited by Strife025, 10 October 2012 - 12:05 AM.


#22 Abbadoom

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:59 PM

I'm glad to see another "shouter".  Your skill selection is a lot like mine, except, I generally keep Retreat, for when it's time to run.  I'm not that good, so, sometimes I need Retreat and Save yourselves ;)  I may try your traits, just to see how it works for me, since I use greatsword as much as I do, I like symbols are bigger, last longer, as well as shouts recharge 20% faster.  I wishI still haven't seen many that use my other weapon of choice in pve, sword/torch.  Which, is surprising to me, because my last 2 damage numbers are usually over 2,000.  Granted, it does take a lot of time for cleansing flame, start to finish, but, the other offhands just seem like weak sauce to me.  Just don't know if I can give up the ability to spam renewed justice ;)

#23 Slivers

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:09 AM

Strife - What do you use for "on demand" condition removal? I've run in to this a couple of times already and although 3 per 10Sec is generally enough, there are times when the 10Sec is, well, 9.5Sec away ... oddly enough, the thing I find missing the most is "Absolute Resolution" for those "Oh Sh**! I have four conditions on me" moments :-/

Edited by Slivers, 10 October 2012 - 01:10 AM.


#24 cheezewiz

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:20 AM

i made the cleric armor before i even knew about the power/tough/vit gear. Im glad i didnt have enough money to put in 6 soldier runes in them. Im def. gonna try to get the power/tough/vit gear tho. But not many people run HotW  on my server and i think it takes like 242,000 karma to get that gear from Orr vendors. Fun stuff!!

Im gonna try out your build when i get home. I might tweak it a tiny bit cuz i really like 5 in virtues.

#25 Strife025

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:42 AM

View PostGrayGardner, on 09 October 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

could you post a picture of your stats? ^^ just wanted to see how you look, and how do that stats end up like.

Edit: See video in first post now.

View PostSlivers, on 10 October 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

Strife - What do you use for "on demand" condition removal? I've run in to this a couple of times already and although 3 per 10Sec is generally enough, there are times when the 10Sec is, well, 9.5Sec away ... oddly enough, the thing I find missing the most is "Absolute Resolution" for those "Oh Sh**! I have four conditions on me" moments :-/

Rune of Soldier

Edited by Strife025, 12 October 2012 - 09:35 PM.


#26 Rydells

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:49 AM

I really like your build Strife, and will give it a go tonight. The one question I have (which was raised by cheezewiz) is...what is your view of 5 in Virtues to get Inspired Virtue - and if you were going to take it, where would you get the points from in your build?

A lot of the build threads I've read talk about taking those 5 points, pretty much no matter what build you have. Interested in your analysis of that trait, and if it's worth giving up something else for it.

Thanks for a really interesting build and analysis.

#27 Slivers

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:08 AM

View PostStrife025, on 10 October 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

Rune of Soldier

File this under "Duh!" ... for some reason I was thinking Soldier was 1 per 10S not on Shout.  Le Sigh ... it's been a long day.

Edited by Slivers, 10 October 2012 - 02:10 AM.


#28 Strife025

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:25 AM

View PostRydells, on 10 October 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

I really like your build Strife, and will give it a go tonight. The one question I have (which was raised by cheezewiz) is...what is your view of 5 in Virtues to get Inspired Virtue - and if you were going to take it, where would you get the points from in your build?

A lot of the build threads I've read talk about taking those 5 points, pretty much no matter what build you have. Interested in your analysis of that trait, and if it's worth giving up something else for it.

Thanks for a really interesting build and analysis.

I talked about that in a previous post, but you would need to basically take 10 out of the honor line and give up either 20% cooldown or might on crit, and then take 15 in radiance and 5 in virtues.

Anyone telling you it is a must though for every build is just bad. I explained why I prefer 10-30-30 over 15-30-20-5.

#29 cheezewiz

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:30 AM

View PostStrife025, on 10 October 2012 - 02:25 AM, said:

I talked about that in a previous post, but you would need to basically take 10 out of the honor line and give up either 20% cooldown or might on crit, and then take 15 in radiance and 5 in virtues.

Anyone telling you it is a must though for every build is just bad. I explained why I prefer 10-30-30 over 15-30-20-5.

why not just take 5 out of valor or honor? There was another thread in here that talked about AH not being a very good T3 skill, and im sure youd survive without the 20% CD on your 2 handed weapons.

#30 Strife025

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:52 AM

View Postcheezewiz, on 10 October 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

why not just take 5 out of valor or honor? There was another thread in here that talked about AH not being a very good T3 skill, and im sure youd survive without the 20% CD on your 2 handed weapons.

Whoever said AH is not a good T3 skill is insane. In a group, your staff 4 is basically an extra heal. Constantly throwing out might stacks on crit, vigor on yourself, 1 sec boons from symbols, and shouts means your are getting healed for 72 health per buff per person including yourself.

I'll have to make a video later when I get around to it, because that person can't have used AH with any decent build.

There is also no way the 3 stacks of might for 5 sec is superior to 20% 2-hand mastery. 20% more skills on both your greatsword, hammer, or staff which means more might/vigor stacks through things like WW and Staff 4, more heals through AH, and overall more damage. The only time I would ever consider only 5 in Virtues is if I had 15 in radiance so I could constantly spam Justice when farming trash mobs. Like I said, this build is for hard content because anything can kill trash, 5 in justice is useless in a sustained boss battle compared to 20% skill reduction for 8 of your skills.




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