583 replies to this topic

[Puandro]

Teepo, on 04 February 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

Strife, are you 100% sure of the maths behind those ratios? I did the same here but came up with different numbers. Can you (or some other reader who got the same numbers) walk me through the rationale? Thanks.

Lets look at the gloves for example.

Exotic Gloves come with 34 main stat, 24 2ndary stat or 2% crit. That means that to gain 2% crit you gave up 24 of a certain stat, so 1% crit = 12 stat points for gloves.

[Yamirashi]

Great work on the thoughts and ideas here.  

What are your thoughts for someone focused more on WvW with dungeons as a just for fun on the side and only ran fractals 1 one time? I've been running your older build wtih the PVT armor and Knight's Jewelry with Berserker Jewels. I had gotten a full knights set but when I went to WvW my health was too low to deal with conditions (though I didn't have Soldier runes yet and now realize they make a big difference, just not sure if it would be enough to make full Knights work in WvW where you can get huge stacks of conditions easily)

My problem I see is not knowing where to go once I do get to the point of being able to get Ascended gear. The PVT with Knights doesn't give good options for Ascended gear. I never really worried about ascended gear as I didn't have any interest in Fractals, but from dailies and possibly running fractals some more with my guild I may very well get some ascended gear and I'm not sure what would fit at this point. With PVT armor and Knight's jewelry I'm sitting at 40% crit with my GS which I feel is a "good enough" base and just over 3k armor (those numbers are without food). I'm not sure if I would want to give up armor by getting Ascended Berserker or if giving up Crit for Ascended PVT would be better.

Basically, would Knight's gear with Soldier Runes give enough health to deal with Conditions in WvW? If not what Ascended gear would be best to get with a PVT armor set? I don't particularly want to use multiple armor sets, mostly because I would care even less about Ascended gear if it's not going to benefit me in WvW which seems like may be the case right now.

Edited by Yamirashi, 05 February 2013 - 05:00 PM.

[Thaddeuz]

Teepo, on 04 February 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

Strife, are you 100% sure of the maths behind those ratios? I did the same here but came up with different numbers. Can you (or some other reader who got the same numbers) walk me through the rationale? Thanks.

Equipement/Minor Stats/Crit Dmg/Ratio

Exotic
2H Weapons / 128 / 9% / 1:14.2
1H Weapons / 64 / 5% / 1:12.8
Chest         / 72 / 5% / 1:14.4
Legs             / 48 / 3% / 1:16
Head             / 32 / 2% / 1:16
Shoulders     / 24 / 2% / 1:12
Gloves   / 24 / 2% / 1:12
Boots            / 24 / 2% / 1:12
Necklace       / 64 / 5% / 1:12.8
Ring              / 48 / 3% / 1:16
Accessory     / 40 / 3% / 1:13.3
Back Item     / 16 / 1% / 1:16
Jewel     / 15 / 3% / 1:5

Ascended
Necklace / 85 / 9% / 1:9.44
Ring     / 68 / 8% / 1:8.5
Back Item    / 35 / 5% / 1:7

[Strife025]

Yamirashi, on 05 February 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

Great work on the thoughts and ideas here.  

What are your thoughts for someone focused more on WvW with dungeons as a just for fun on the side and only ran fractals 1 one time? I've been running your older build wtih the PVT armor and Knight's Jewelry with Berserker Jewels. I had gotten a full knights set but when I went to WvW my health was too low to deal with conditions (though I didn't have Soldier runes yet and now realize they make a big difference, just not sure if it would be enough to make full Knights work in WvW where you can get huge stacks of conditions easily)

My problem I see is not knowing where to go once I do get to the point of being able to get Ascended gear. The PVT with Knights doesn't give good options for Ascended gear. I never really worried about ascended gear as I didn't have any interest in Fractals, but from dailies and possibly running fractals some more with my guild I may very well get some ascended gear and I'm not sure what would fit at this point. With PVT armor and Knight's jewelry I'm sitting at 40% crit with my GS which I feel is a "good enough" base and just over 3k armor (those numbers are without food). I'm not sure if I would want to give up armor by getting Ascended Berserker or if giving up Crit for Ascended PVT would be better.

Basically, would Knight's gear with Soldier Runes give enough health to deal with Conditions in WvW? If not what Ascended gear would be best to get with a PVT armor set? I don't particularly want to use multiple armor sets, mostly because I would care even less about Ascended gear if it's not going to benefit me in WvW which seems like may be the case right now.

For WvW health is alot more valuable and berserker isn't valuable on a guardian that is going to be on the front line, just because you'll be dealing with a large group of people many times that actually move around and focus fire and such. You're not going to get that benefit of high crit damage on a guardian in WvW since you won't really have un-interrupted sustained damage like in PvE, and you'll be taking alot more undodgeable damage. So toughness, vit, and crit chance to stay alive would be more beneficial then high crit damage from berserker.

There is ascended jewelery with PVT stats if you wanted to run that with knights armor. Back when I wvw'd on guardian, I found around 18k health or so was a pretty decent amount that let me stay alive alot better.

I haven't really run the numbers on what PVT ascended gear + knights armor, but I'm sure it would get your pretty close plus the added benefit of more total stats from ascended.

[Yamirashi]

Strife025, on 05 February 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

For WvW health is alot more valuable and berserker isn't valuable on a guardian that is going to be on the front line, just because you'll be dealing with a large group of people many times that actually move around and focus fire and such. You're not going to get that benefit of high crit damage on a guardian in WvW since you won't really have un-interrupted sustained damage like in PvE, and you'll be taking alot more undodgeable damage. So toughness, vit, and crit chance to stay alive would be more beneficial then high crit damage from berserker.

There is ascended jewelery with PVT stats if you wanted to run that with knights armor. Back when I wvw'd on guardian, I found around 18k health or so was a pretty decent amount that let me stay alive alot better.

I haven't really run the numbers on what PVT ascended gear + knights armor, but I'm sure it would get your pretty close plus the added benefit of more total stats from ascended.

Oh yeah, they just added exotic PVT jewelry as well, I could switch back to Knights armor and PVT jewelry for relatively similar stats, then ascended PVT would work.

Have to be careful though, I love the look I have right now (All WvW with Karma Shoulders and Legs) and the WvW pieces are expensive... If I xmute them onto Knight's gear I better be sure that's what I wanted

[Yamirashi]

Meant for this to be an edit, not a reply...

Ran the numbers of just PVT armor with Knights jewelry and Knights armor with PVT jewelry. If I made the swap I would get 5 power and 16 vitality, but lose 16 prec and 5 toughness...  I could also swap back to the Emerald Jewels rather than Ruby and wouldn't lose much other than Crit Dmg.

Also If I got PVT ascended Rings, Amulet, and Back I would gain another 42 power, 80 vit, and 70 toughness, losing 60 more prec and 42 crit dmg (from all the now missing Ruby Jewels).  

I could see myself having multiple sets of jewelry though to go with one set of Armor for different situations.  Like a soldier set and a Knight/Berserker or straight Berserker set for when I just want some flat out dmg. I think this may be the route I want to take... Thanks for pointing out the obvious option

Edited by Yamirashi, 05 February 2013 - 07:34 PM.

[Erighan]

Can anyone comment on how well this build works in Fractals 30+?  Seen a few other threads where people say the boons in this build don't last long enough and running a cleric/knights/soldier and a balanced trait setup is more beneficial to the whole team.  Would like some thoughts before investing in ascended berserker infusions.  BTW, I run fotm with pugs, so don't have the benefit of organized team setups. Thanks.

Edited by Erighan, 12 February 2013 - 01:46 PM.

[hatchet]

Erighan, on 12 February 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Can anyone comment on how well this build works in Fractals 30+?  Seen a few other threads where people say the boons in this build don't last long enough and running a cleric/knights/soldier and a balanced trait setup is more beneficial to the whole team.  Would like some thoughts before investing in ascended berserker infusions.  BTW, I run fotm with pugs, so don't have the benefit of organized team setups. Thanks.

I got to 41 (so far) playing only in pugs and using this build with 0/0/30/30/10 with a mix of soldier/knights armor, soldier runes, berserkers and knights jewels.  Unfortunately I can't comment if a boon duration build is more optimal in 30+ fractals, as I haven't tried one.

Edited by hatchet, 12 February 2013 - 05:40 PM.

[Thaddeuz]

Erighan, on 12 February 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Can anyone comment on how well this build works in Fractals 30+?  Seen a few other threads where people say the boons in this build don't last long enough and running a cleric/knights/soldier and a balanced trait setup is more beneficial to the whole team.  Would like some thoughts before investing in ascended berserker infusions.  BTW, I run fotm with pugs, so don't have the benefit of organized team setups. Thanks.

Personally I use this build with Knight Armor, Soldier Weapons, Berserker Trinkets and Ruby Jewel and i reached level 67 in fractal. So i would say, that is a viable build for +30 fractal. But, you should really get yourself a team or at least 2 friend with who you always play. Because in higher level good coordination make the fractal way easier. But i understand its not something everybody can have.

[Strife025]

Erighan, on 12 February 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Can anyone comment on how well this build works in Fractals 30+?  Seen a few other threads where people say the boons in this build don't last long enough and running a cleric/knights/soldier and a balanced trait setup is more beneficial to the whole team.  Would like some thoughts before investing in ascended berserker infusions.  BTW, I run fotm with pugs, so don't have the benefit of organized team setups. Thanks.

As Thad mentioned, it's fine for high levels. All the Guardians in my guild run this, with many reaching 50+ before the Jan 28th patch, I'm personally in the mid 40s with no trouble at all.

But high levels are really about coordination and organization as mentioned, gear alone isn't going to save you at high levels, it's about using your skills and group coordination appropriately.

[GammaWolf]

I gather from the more recent posts that a generally optimal gear setup for 0-0-30-30-10 is:

Weapons: Knights / Zerker
Armor: 6x Knights
Trinkets: 6x zerker

Thoughts?

[Strife025]

GammaWolf, on 12 February 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

I gather from the more recent posts that a generally optimal gear setup for 0-0-30-30-10 is:

Weapons: Knights / Zerker
Armor: 6x Knights
Trinkets: 6x zerker

Thoughts?

For trinkets I run 4x Zerker Ascended (or at least what I plan on whenever I get the ammy) and 2x Knight earrings with ruby jewels.

[Rp40]

i was building towards 0/0/30/30/10 before you even made the change .



but now i need advice.

This is my alt and although I will sometimes use for dungeons its mainly going to be for wvw i beleive.

As of now, I used the 10 for ground targeted wall of reflection for wvw. However there are many other good choices and i'm starting to rethink.

I'm struggling between pure of voice and empoweing might.

Is empowering might really worth it with crit/vit/healing stats?

I feel some obligation to put crit on this character going down the 3rd line 30 points.

Should I ignore? Pure of voice seems like good condition removal, and without empowering might less of a reason to build crti

But I could run purity.......

The other thought is instead of hold the line/stand your ground.....I could take out one of these for save your self and replace wall of reflection with contemplation of purtiy. this would be a quick condi removal>boon.

What do you guys feel like would be more valuable for a focus of 70% wvw 30% Dungeon (pugs)

Bassically im struggling with more might to allies and condition removal for just myself or party condiiton removal but less might for allies. How would this choice affect AH healing. Which build would take advantage of AH the best??

IN wvw I usually run in groups no larger than 15 people My computer cant' process fights largert han that

Edited by Rp40, 13 February 2013 - 02:31 AM.

[Strife025]

Well empowering might is going to heal you alot more since it's ~360 per second, I ran without it for a bit and could notice the difference easily.

If you run soldier runes usually they are enough where you don't need pure of voice. When I use to WvW alot I found soldier was fine for condition removal since other people usually have some sort of condition removal as well. Really depends what you need more based on your guild group or whatever.

[Puandro]

Empowering might has a ICD of 1.5 my guess, more than 1 for sure.  its still basically 3 perma stacks of might for everyone so its worth it IMHO.

For PvE i run

Helm/Chest/Pants - Knight
Shoulder/Hands/Feet - Berserker
Weapon - Soldier
Backpiece - Ascended Berserker
Earings/Amulet - Knight w/ Ruby Jewels
Rings - Ascended Berserker w/ Valk Jewels (trade 18 prec for 18 vitality from full zerk version basically)

It's a great mix imho, prob going to get the berserker ascended amulet once the fractal one is released since you can't infuse the laurel one like the rings so its a waste as my fractal toon.

2,900 Armor 17K Health is currently my minimum tankiness i go for but i might drop it lower later on. Keep in mind since i run Hammer instead of GS i actually steal aggro 90% of the time from my guard friend who runs GS even though he has 3,250 armor (he hasnt bothered to change his gear yet) because toughness is not the only thing that creates aggro even though its the main thing, applying boons and healing from my symbol out weight his extra 300 toughness.

If you want to WvW as your main thing and PvE on the side i suggest you run a soldier/knight mix and don't touch zerk gear. You will still do damage so people can't ignore you, but people can't burst you down.

http://intothemists....9TT;21;045848Ak

Thats the WvW build he runs, allows you to rez easily, and you don;t have to swap specs every time you decide to wvw of pve.

[Rp40]

You guys really like Soldiers runes?

IDK tough in my mind NOT to put 10 points in the final tree.
hitting F1 and granting everybody an extra 3 stacks of might EZ seems really good. and the extra boon duration has to be worth something?

Also for WvW is soldier really the way to go? Anybody looked into those Altruism runes? Do soldiers runes remove conditions on just you or your ally too?

[Strife025]

Rp40, on 14 February 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

You guys really like Soldiers runes?

IDK tough in my mind NOT to put 10 points in the final tree.
hitting F1 and granting everybody an extra 3 stacks of might EZ seems really good. and the extra boon duration has to be worth something?

Also for WvW is soldier really the way to go? Anybody looked into those Altruism runes? Do soldiers runes remove conditions on just you or your ally too?

On everyone that gets hit by the shout (which is limited to 5 people). So in a normal group, the entire group gets conditions removed.

Altruism is useless for an AH build.

There are better ways to get boon duration runes if you want them, you already have 100% fury uptime in guard/war/mes groups, healing power is pretty useless with AH, and 3 stacks of might on heal is nice, but not like you're going to be wasting your burst heal just to give 3 stacks of might for 10 sec so it's not really something you're going to waste your rune slots on.

[Cuics23]

Sorry this question might have already been asked.

Which weapons do I buy if I am following this build, which level 80 GS and Staff should I invest in. Thank you and I love this build I have been running it and it goes smooth!

[Firer]

You said you use shield of the avenger sometimes. Now, I heard from many people that after the update (which made them targtable) they die in three hits making them useless. Does this stop you from using this? Like I could imagine that normal mobs have no aggro on the shield, since it doesn't deal much damage, but I don't know... Also would it get the agony condition????

[Strife025]

Firer, on 17 February 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

You said you use shield of the avenger sometimes. Now, I heard from many people that after the update (which made them targtable) they die in three hits making them useless. Does this stop you from using this? Like I could imagine that normal mobs have no aggro on the shield, since it doesn't deal much damage, but I don't know... Also would it get the agony condition????

You have to position it so it doesn't get hit now, mobs don't actually target it. It's definately not as good but it's still useful for many things. It doesn't get agony.

[Firer]

Ok ty
To the positioning... It spawns at my current location and follows me right? At what distance? Since as a guardian you are probably melee most of the time so if the shield is to close it would get hit...

Edited by Firer, 18 February 2013 - 06:53 PM.

[Bender222]

Firer, on 18 February 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

Ok ty
To the positioning... It spawns at my current location and follows me right? At what distance? Since as a guardian you are probably melee most of the time so if the shield is to close it would get hit...

You could probably try hit out for yourself faster then he can answer

Edited by Bender222, 18 February 2013 - 11:13 PM.

[Firer]

Meh, I was on my iPad

[Shadowresli]

hey strife, this may be a bit off topic, but in one of your videos you mentioned, that you did some wvw with your guardian. what was your build and setup like, when you did that? cause i started to do a bit more wvw myself, but i struggle a bit.

and on a sidenote, how do you think your dedicated group setup (like in the videos) would fare as a 5man raid group for supplycamps and small skirmishes?

Edited by Shadowresli, 19 February 2013 - 03:50 PM.

[Yamirashi]

Shadowresli, on 19 February 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

hey strife, this may be a bit off topic, but in one of your videos you mentioned, that you did some wvw with your guardian. what was your build and setup like, when you did that? cause i started to do a bit more wvw myself, but i struggle a bit.

and on a sidenote, how do you think your dedicated group setup (like in the videos) would fare as a 5man raid group for supplycamps and small skirmishes?

The first video was more along the lines of WvW. Soldier(PVT) armor and Knight's jewelry with the 0/10/30/30/0 spec.

I'm using something similar in WvW now and having a lot of success. Only real difference is I just swapped to Knight's armor with Soldier(PVT) jewelry to accommodate getting Ascended pieces. This isn't hard to do now that they added Soldier pieces to the Grenth Temple Vendor for 42k karma.

I can now swap out various Knights and Soldier rings and accessories to get the right balance of Vit and Crit % for the situation since I kept my Knight's jewelry, so its actually pretty cool.

Edited by Yamirashi, 19 February 2013 - 04:35 PM.

[Strife025]

Shadowresli, on 19 February 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

hey strife, this may be a bit off topic, but in one of your videos you mentioned, that you did some wvw with your guardian. what was your build and setup like, when you did that? cause i started to do a bit more wvw myself, but i struggle a bit.

and on a sidenote, how do you think your dedicated group setup (like in the videos) would fare as a 5man raid group for supplycamps and small skirmishes?

Basically what Yamirashi said for gear, I use to use PVT gear for WvW and knights jewelery. Because of larger scale fights and people focusing you, you want more health and that extra damage from berserker isn't useful for a initiator/melee type class that will be focused alot. With ascended gear though, since there isn't ascended knight, I would probably end up with PVT ascended jewelery, and knights armor at this point for higher stat total. I aimed for around 18k health back when I WvWed.

As far as dedicated group goes, what I run in dungeons wouldn't be ideal for WvW. We actually do WvW sometimes and like fighting in EB jump puzzle alot because it's fun :x, but we'll usually bring in other classes or at least not the warriors, my guardian and mesmer is still good overall, and I do have an 80 thief and necro as well. Melee full glass warriors isn't really ideal when you're fighting multiple people that can focus you down pretty quick and have ways to avoid damage compared to stupid PvE mobs.

[Brand]

Strife I had a question for you in light of recent posts on my thread (#585, #591, #595) in which a forum goer asked me to compare this build (Although his version has 5 points in the second tree rather than 10 in the last) with the Warrior build Sonic Boon. My question is to ask you your thoughts on the matter. I do not think that forum goer was a huge expert on the subject, and since I know you from the Warrior forums I figured I'd ask you your opinions. Thanks!

Edited by Brand, 20 February 2013 - 10:19 PM.

[Strife025]

Brand, on 20 February 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:

Strife I had a question for you in light of recent posts on my thread (#585, #591, #595) in which a forum goer asked me to compare this build (Although his version has 5 points in the second tree rather than 10 in the last) with the Warrior build Sonic Boon. My question is to ask you your thoughts on the matter. I do not think that forum goer was a huge expert on the subject, and since I know you from the Warrior forums I figured I'd ask you your opinions. Thanks!

I don't think they're really comparable simply because the utility and skills of guardian are vastly different then warrior.

Specifically for high level fractals and certain dungeons like CM and a few bosses, the huge reflection uptime, protection uptime, and group stability can't really be compared to any other class. I think it's a pretty well known fact that at this point, a guardian offers more defensive options, while a warrior offers more offensive options, simply because of their traits, utility, and weapon skills. It doesn't matter what class, defensive spec, etc. you are at high level fractals for instance, nothing will help your group more as far as staying alive goes then the huge amount of reflection uptime a guardian brings, because it's not possible to tank all the incoming damage on things like shaman or harpy fractal, no matter how defensive you are.

Aegis also offers a decent option for either bursting down some specific bosses or allowing you to revive during bosses and get a block in without using any utility slots. There are countless times where Aegis on my guardian and being able to pop it while rezing a downed person has saved further trouble.

Because of that you usually want one guardian in your group, and of course you want at least one warrior for the dps and damage utility like banner and offensive shouts. So in those situations, it's better to use the guardian as a more defensive anchor class, and the warrior as more offensive then vice versa.

With AH, you also have much more self healing then warrior. Now you don't have the small burst group heals (although you have damage mitigation and more minor heals through protection and regen), but in terms of self-survival and being able to tank, AH is superior. That's why if you run an organized group with 1 anchor, Guardian is the best option because of the healing.

For instance, every 1-1.5s you proc empowering might you heal 360h, everytime you shout and provide 2 boons to everyone, you heal 720h + the more defensive boons from shouts on guardian, everytime you use f1 you heal 1080h, everytime you cast down a symbol you heal 360h/s assuming a full melee group, plus you have your f2 virtue which is a constant ~100h/s heal as well, more defensive elite skills, etc.. Not to mention the Guardian Hammer and GS that are much different then what a warrior brings as a defensive role. I briefly saw one of the posts in that thread about food, but all the guardians I run with as well as myself personally, we use the pies for more self healing. Granted the crit chance of a buffed AH guardian is going to sit around 73% compared to warrior around 89%-99% depending on the build, but food + AH + the defensive boons and reflections just really gives Guardian a superior edge in the "anchor"/defensive department.

All of that really makes Guardian much different because there are things that you want on a Guardian that just can't be compared on a Warrior.

Edited by Strife025, 20 February 2013 - 10:51 PM.

[Brand]

Strife025, on 20 February 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

Snip

Terribly sorry! I should have been more specific. This is all great info and I agree with everything (Except I would argue that warriors provide almost as much self heals as a guardian granted the guardian is not using Omnoms). However, I meant to specifically ask you your opinion on the synergies between the two builds, and how great they combine to supply great support and still retain a lot of dps. It is clear to me now that every Sonic Boon warrior should attempt to pair with an AH guardian due to the great benefits we provide to eachother and the group. I wanted to ask if you felt similar, or your thoughts on that matter?

Edit: Further information.

It would seem that the builds are two sides of the same coin, support. AH provides superior defensive boons and is stronger in defense. SB provides superior offensive boons and is stronger in offense. Both builds provide nearly the same group healing, one burst, one passive. To me it is clear that these two builds fit together perfectly to provide superior support to the group while dps barely takes a hit. It's almost like having a 6th party member preforming a full support role, in fact I think it might be better than that!

Edited by Brand, 20 February 2013 - 11:18 PM.

[Strife025]

Brand, on 20 February 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

Terribly sorry! I should have been more specific. This is all great info and I agree with everything (Except I would argue that warriors provide almost as much self heals as a guardian granted the guardian is not using Omnoms). However, I meant to specifically ask you your opinion on the synergies between the two builds, and how great they combine to supply great support and still retain a lot of dps. It is clear to me now that every Sonic Boon warrior should attempt to pair with an AH guardian due to the great benefits we provide to eachother and the group. I wanted to ask if you felt similar, or your thoughts on that matter?

Well I think you already know my view since I only run organized guild groups, and the fact that I think you only need 1 anchor and the other warriors/mesmer can go full dps to speed run dungeons. Except in high fractals where we run 2 guardians for 100% reflection and protection uptime.

My view is a little different because at this point I don't die on any named dungeons, so we take the minimum amount of tankiness/support, and try to maximze dps after that.

I mean the main thing Sonic Boon provides is heals for the group at the cost of some damage. So if you need the heals then you need them, if you don't need them then they are a waste because you do less damage. So it really depends if your AH guardian needs extra heals to be an anchor or not. From my experience we don't, but that really depends on the group, how good the players are, how long you take to kill things, etc.