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After 100s of hours, my final Guardian Build

altrusitic healing shouts guardian tank dps

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#601 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 09:22 AM

View PostiLag, on 15 July 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

How does this build fair with berserker set?

If you are going to use Bersker's armor, you may as well just use a true DPS build. AH is, in my opinion, decent for learning how to play Guardian and getting used to it. That's all it's worth to me, though.

#602 Subdue

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 11:55 PM

I'm just going to start off by saying this is a great, well thought out guide, and it's the one I'm following as I put my own guardian together as we speak.  And I am by no means an expert on guardians, and in fact mine is only level 63 at the moment.  However, I was looking over the numbers, the gear, and the explanations behind it, and from what I understand, the goal is be the one absorbing the damage for your team as the anchor, while dealing what damage you can.

Because offensive stats are multiplicative (each point in power makes each point in precision more effective, etc), this build can never hope to output damage even close to that of a build that's focused on damage, as quite a few stat points are burned in toughness and vitality.  What it can do, however, is become an extremely tanky, immovable golem of a character for the team by focusing on its strong points, its defensive stats, which fortunately, are also multiplicative.  The only exception to this seems to be Precision/Critical Strike Chance, since that is used to proc a number of effects.

Tallying up the total stats (for armor and trinkets, Soldier's runes) achieved by your build, I found that it gave the following:
Power: +738
Toughness +365
Vitality +165
Precision +583 (accounting for Retributive Armor)
Crit Dmg +17%

I then looked at alternative setups, and landed up Soldier's armor and Knight's trinkets and Lyssa runes.
Power +656
Toughness +738
Vitality +224
Precision +543
Crit Dmg +0

That amounts to a net change in bonus stats of:
Power -11%
Toughness +102%
Vitality +35%
Precision -6%
Crit Dmg -17%

Given the huge increase in bonus defensive stats relative to the minor decrease in bonus offensive stats, most importantly a mere 6% decrease in Precision, coupled with your own admission that Soldier's gear is also more effective in WvW situations, why would you recommend going Knight's Armor + Berserker Trinkets over Soldier's Armor + Knight's Trinkets?

Edited by Subdue, 18 July 2013 - 11:56 PM.


#603 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 12:21 AM

View PostSubdue, on 18 July 2013 - 11:55 PM, said:

I'm just going to start off by saying this is a great, well thought out guide, and it's the one I'm following as I put my own guardian together as we speak.  And I am by no means an expert on guardians, and in fact mine is only level 63 at the moment.  However, I was looking over the numbers, the gear, and the explanations behind it, and from what I understand, the goal is be the one absorbing the damage for your team as the anchor, while dealing what damage you can.

Because offensive stats are multiplicative (each point in power makes each point in precision more effective, etc), this build can never hope to output damage even close to that of a build that's focused on damage, as quite a few stat points are burned in toughness and vitality.  What it can do, however, is become an extremely tanky, immovable golem of a character for the team by focusing on its strong points, its defensive stats, which fortunately, are also multiplicative.  The only exception to this seems to be Precision/Critical Strike Chance, since that is used to proc a number of effects.

Tallying up the total stats (for armor and trinkets, Soldier's runes) achieved by your build, I found that it gave the following:
Power: +738
Toughness +365
Vitality +165
Precision +583 (accounting for Retributive Armor)
Crit Dmg +17%

I then looked at alternative setups, and landed up Soldier's armor and Knight's trinkets and Lyssa runes.
Power +656
Toughness +738
Vitality +224
Precision +543
Crit Dmg +0

That amounts to a net change in bonus stats of:
Power -11%
Toughness +102%
Vitality +35%
Precision -6%
Crit Dmg -17%

Given the huge increase in bonus defensive stats relative to the minor decrease in bonus offensive stats, most importantly a mere 6% decrease in Precision, coupled with your own admission that Soldier's gear is also more effective in WvW situations, why would you recommend going Knight's Armor + Berserker Trinkets over Soldier's Armor + Knight's Trinkets?

There's not really any reason to use an AH build, mainly because the aggro mechanics are wonky. Even if you have an "anchor" Guardian, bosses will aggro to Warriors or other classes after a few seconds. Taking stats like Toughness and Vitality should really only be done if you aren't able to dodge and don't want to take the time learning boss encounters. Berserker's stats are really just vastly superior to any armor that offers survivability, especially on a Guardian where you have access to a lot of blocks and Vigor.

#604 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:39 AM

View Postcrizpynutz, on 26 June 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

Yeah, still working on that one.  Not sure yet what the final trait set up should be.  Debating a 10/30/0/20/10 for virtues (Unscathed Contender?), or saying screw it and going 20/30/0/20/0 and going with Zealous Blade.

Check out any of mine or Brazil's threads for ways to optimize your DPS.

#605 Subdue

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:43 AM

View PostBrazilTheHue, on 19 July 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

There's not really any reason to use an AH build, mainly because the aggro mechanics are wonky. Even if you have an "anchor" Guardian, bosses will aggro to Warriors or other classes after a few seconds. Taking stats like Toughness and Vitality should really only be done if you aren't able to dodge and don't want to take the time learning boss encounters. Berserker's stats are really just vastly superior to any armor that offers survivability, especially on a Guardian where you have access to a lot of blocks and Vigor.

You don't like the build.  We get it.  Your response of "This build sucks" when my question is "Why is this combination of items better for this build than a different combination of items" is not at all conducive to the conversation.

Edited by Subdue, 19 July 2013 - 01:44 AM.


#606 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:03 AM

View PostSubdue, on 19 July 2013 - 01:43 AM, said:

You don't like the build.  We get it.  Your response of "This build sucks" when my question is "Why is this combination of items better for this build than a different combination of items" is not at all conducive to the conversation.

No, you are putting words in my mouth and trying to make me seem hostile. Responses like that aren't conducive to the conversation. I gave you advice as to why you shouldn't run a build like this.

#607 guanlongwucaii

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 05:14 AM

View PostSubdue, on 19 July 2013 - 01:43 AM, said:



You don't like the build.  We get it.  Your response of "This build sucks" when my question is "Why is this combination of items better for this build than a different combination of items" is not at all conducive to the conversation.

the idea of Knight + Berserker equipment in dungeons is that you manage to beat everyone else's Toughness value (because in organised groups people other than the "anchor" should spec for DPS) while also getting a nice amount of crit% and crit damage so you hit harder (though onviously your DPS still sucks compared to DPS builds). however this does not work because GW2 aggro mechanics are screwed up, aggro is not solely based on Toughness, and ANet will take the secret of aggro mechanics to the grave. so the concept of an "anchor" is kind of useless, and in most dungeons there is no need to run anchor builds.

soldier runes are for condition removal, one of the biggest utilities that the guardian brings to the table. while 30 in honor allows you to take PoV and skip soldier runes, strife presumably went for soldier runes because it allows you to take 2h mastery (cds on GS pull, staff 4 and hammer ward) and empowering might at the same time. when I ran this build I did find that the cooldowns are very useful.

17% crit damage is not a small loss in offensive stats at all.

also, Brazil is right. guardians have a lot of blocks and dodges which means that running full zerk on them is pretty easy. also, AH is a terrible crutch which severely limits your gameplay, encouraging lazy play. it is different for wvw zerg gameplay where there is a lot of damage that simply cannot be avoided. it's best to get multiple pieces of gear and spec appropriately depending on game mode.

#608 Subdue

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 06:24 AM

View PostBrazilTheHue, on 19 July 2013 - 02:03 AM, said:

No, you are putting words in my mouth and trying to make me seem hostile. Responses like that aren't conducive to the conversation. I gave you advice as to why you shouldn't run a build like this.

No, I'm not putting words into your mouth.  Just to illustrate my point, here are your posts in this thread:

View PostBrazilTheHue, on 26 June 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

AH is lazy and low DPS. It's fine for keeping you alive, but that's about it really.

View PostBrazilTheHue, on 15 July 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

If you are going to use Bersker's armor, you may as well just use a true DPS build. AH is, in my opinion, decent for learning how to play Guardian and getting used to it. That's all it's worth to me, though.

View PostBrazilTheHue, on 26 June 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

For Sword, you could go 10/30/0/20/10, 0/30/0/30/10, or 20/30/0/20/0. This link http://www.guildwars...guardian-build/ might help you.

AH is great for newer Guardians, people that don't care about speedclearing, people that aren't concerned with maximizing DPS etc. I prefer DPS though.

View PostBrazilTheHue, on 19 July 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

There's not really any reason to use an AH build, mainly because the aggro mechanics are wonky. Even if you have an "anchor" Guardian, bosses will aggro to Warriors or other classes after a few seconds. Taking stats like Toughness and Vitality should really only be done if you aren't able to dodge and don't want to take the time learning boss encounters. Berserker's stats are really just vastly superior to any armor that offers survivability, especially on a Guardian where you have access to a lot of blocks and Vigor.

Do you notice a pattern?  You're basically here to say "Don't play AH, go DPS instead."  Great, we got your opinion.  In fact, we got it 4 times.  Clearly someone who's leaning towards this build isn't looking to build another DPS character. If they were, they might as well be making a warrior.  If someone, like me, is asking questions about this build, how to improve upon this build, I want to talk about this build.  I don't want to listen to your spiel about how you don't like it.  You feel like expressing how you think a guardian should be played, what build(s) people should use, etc, go make your own thread instead of trying to highjack someone else's.

#609 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 07:11 AM

View PostSubdue, on 19 July 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

No, I'm not putting words into your mouth.  Just to illustrate my point, here are your posts in this thread:









Do you notice a pattern?  You're basically here to say "Don't play AH, go DPS instead."  Great, we got your opinion.  In fact, we got it 4 times.  Clearly someone who's leaning towards this build isn't looking to build another DPS character. If they were, they might as well be making a warrior.  If someone, like me, is asking questions about this build, how to improve upon this build, I want to talk about this build.  I don't want to listen to your spiel about how you don't like it.  You feel like expressing how you think a guardian should be played, what build(s) people should use, etc, go make your own thread instead of trying to highjack someone else's.

You stated that I said "This build sucks." I did not say that. I'm attempting to offer you advice on Guardian because I do not feel that this build is worth playing and I'm trying to do so as nicely as I can. If you want to take your time playing and don't care about damage, speedclearing or anything of the sort (which is what this build was intended for), then equip all of the survivability that you can manage. I'm trying to offer you advice as someone that has played Guardian for quite awhile and someone that has built a small reputation for himself. In PvE content you are better suited to use Berserker's gear with a DPS build and Strife would probably agree with me at this point but he no longer plays the game and doesn't seem to keep up with this thread. I have also made my own threads and my own guides complete with videos as well, but I'm posting here and giving the same advice I would give to anyone who is playing a Guardian or wanting to use this build. If you don't like that I'm trying to help you I'll stop bothering you with replies and let you figure things out on your own. It's a good but hard way to learn.

#610 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 08:34 AM

View Postguanlongwucaii, on 19 July 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

the idea of Knight + Berserker equipment in dungeons is that you manage to beat everyone else's Toughness value (because in organised groups people other than the "anchor" should spec for DPS) while also getting a nice amount of crit% and crit damage so you hit harder (though onviously your DPS still sucks compared to DPS builds). however this does not work because GW2 aggro mechanics are screwed up, aggro is not solely based on Toughness, and ANet will take the secret of aggro mechanics to the grave. so the concept of an "anchor" is kind of useless, and in most dungeons there is no need to run anchor builds.

soldier runes are for condition removal, one of the biggest utilities that the guardian brings to the table. while 30 in honor allows you to take PoV and skip soldier runes, strife presumably went for soldier runes because it allows you to take 2h mastery (cds on GS pull, staff 4 and hammer ward) and empowering might at the same time. when I ran this build I did find that the cooldowns are very useful.

17% crit damage is not a small loss in offensive stats at all.

also, Brazil is right. guardians have a lot of blocks and dodges which means that running full zerk on them is pretty easy. also, AH is a terrible crutch which severely limits your gameplay, encouraging lazy play. it is different for wvw zerg gameplay where there is a lot of damage that simply cannot be avoided. it's best to get multiple pieces of gear and spec appropriately depending on game mode.

Do we even know who perpetuated the "more toughness = more aggro" myth?  Because as far as I can tell, it's totally false.  I've even done some structured tests and couldn't find ANY way to control aggro beyond first in, first out.

#611 XRay

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 08:44 AM

View PostSubdue, on 18 July 2013 - 11:55 PM, said:

*snip*

Getting more toughness than the originally posted build provides is overkill. First of all you sacrifice what little damage the anchor setup provides for something that won't make a massive change to the amount of damage you recieve or make you 'anchor' more effectively. Keep in mind that with the 30 in valor, zerker trinkets and stuff you get up to pretty high crit damage stats and it'll be more effective than a bit more toughness, especially since you'll have protection on most of the time.

When I first started doing instances I was running this build, cause I figured, hey, tankiness should be cool, will be nice to keep the boss away from the group. Horse apples. Everything and their mother gets aggro from you all the time. It's just the aggro mechanic being fubared here. Otherwise I'd be maybe considering still using this on occassion.

I switched to a dps build after doing like 5 instances cause I was very disappointed by the effectiveness. So don't bluntly dismiss Brazil's suggestions as he ain't really someone who didn't try things before suggesting something different/better/more effective.

On another note, it's not really my place to point it out but I'm gonna do it anyways, Strife stopped playing a while back, and his guildmates and friends Brazil and Nike are taking care of answering in his threads and updating speedclear guides etc, so the highjacking thing is kinda silly. Be a bit more laid back and not so offensive when ppl are trying to give you good advice.

Cheers~

Edited by XRay, 19 July 2013 - 08:46 AM.


#612 Meddy009

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 09:44 PM

Hey guys, is there some conclusion from xray or brazil regarding actual build, traits, gear, stats etc. Im a little lost in flame which started to burn here on wall :) I realy want to check and try your latest inventions, cos I loved original build, and Im very interested in some news.

#613 BrazilTheHue

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 10:30 PM

http://www.guildwars...guardian-build/

That's the build I use and have been using for months. It works very well and outputs high damage, but will take some getting used to if you are used to playing AH.

#614 XRay

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 04:37 AM

View PostMeddy009, on 21 July 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

Hey guys, is there some conclusion from xray or brazil regarding actual build, traits, gear, stats etc. Im a little lost in flame which started to burn here on wall :) I realy want to check and try your latest inventions, cos I loved original build, and Im very interested in some news.

View PostBrazilTheHue, on 21 July 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:


My build is almost the same as the one Brazil posted.

#615 winniethepoo

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 11:09 AM

What would you suggest for a leveling priority while filling in the traits.

#616 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 02:27 PM

View Postwinniethepoo, on 22 July 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

What would you suggest for a leveling priority while filling in the traits.

When you are very low level, spam Radiance and Zeal for the ridiculous stat scaling.  After you hit about 60 or so, fill out Honor first, then start throwing stuff into Virtues.  Honestly, I don't think it's worth it to go OMG LOL DPS until you are level 80, just because your DPS will suck anyway due to outdated/subpar gear no matter how you spec your traits.

#617 Meddy009

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 05:54 PM

View PostXRay, on 22 July 2013 - 04:37 AM, said:

My build is almost the same as the one Brazil posted.

Thx a lot!

#618 Hamartia

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 02:26 AM

If anyone is interested, I have put together a build that plays very similarly to this one while including many of the optimizations that have been made to Guardian builds since Strife quit.

http://www.guildwars...n-anchor-build/

#619 Calypso589

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 07:57 PM

Nice to see a guardian build that isn't trying to be a warrior.

As a side note, what gear you choose to run isn't indicative of how well you're going to perform.

How well you perform is indicative of how well you perform.

#620 Cures

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 07:47 PM

so that dubious "anchor" is a rezzer? i can rezz too, but i got dps :)


(removed a 'removed' quote) -Ship

Edited by Ship Soo, 27 July 2013 - 07:58 PM.


#621 Calypso589

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 05:56 AM

View PostCures, on 27 July 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

so that dubious "anchor" is a rezzer? i can rezz too, but i got dps :)


(removed a 'removed' quote) -Ship

You know what i meant. lol




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