Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help
* * * * - 3 votes

Elementalist vs. Mesmer (Aky vs. Tsunkyr)

elementalist versus mesmer

  • Please log in to reply
56 replies to this topic

#31 Goldian

Goldian

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 26 posts

Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:47 PM

Nice video

Im new to gw2,started with my gf

My main, elementalist is level 40
I did my first Spvp matches today, with your build. I never playd with scepter in pve (I use 2x dagger) and the first matches i ended up first
15 kills/0 deahts. Always on rampage in every match and i can win or survive 3v1`s

Funny thing, im sure itll get harder once i gain some rank.
But im also a "noob" since these are my first matches

Glad ele aint that useless as this forum makes it to be

#32 Awake

Awake

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 310 posts
  • Guild Tag:[TR]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:24 PM

View PostAthletic, on 11 October 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

What is then

View PostMekkakat, on 11 October 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Other than maybe a full stealth Thief or bunker Guardian.. I couldn't even think of what you're implying is.

Mesmer, even after the nerfs are ... they're great in 1v1.

View PostAky, on 11 October 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

1v1: Confusion mesmer > Shatter mesmer > Phantasm mesmer.
He is right. Shatter is not the best 1v1 build but the one most used in tournaments for AoE damage.

Precisely. Even as far as Mesmers go, confusion condi Mesmers, especially running the inspiration shatter heal build are practically unkillable 1v1 by most classes. More so overall than shatter or phantasms. Each class/build in the game has it's weaknesses though, and Mesmer is no exception to this rule. What a mesmer is capable of and what is capable of countering it is largely dependent on the build they are running.

Even outside of Mesmer, there are plenty of other amazing 1v1 builds. Death Blossom/Cantrip Thiefs come to mind. As do Spirit build Rangers.

Edited by Awake, 11 October 2012 - 05:29 PM.


#33 Athletic

Athletic

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 242 posts
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:17 PM

Spirit build rangers aren't good except maybe for you ele's.

Never even encountered a confusion mesmer tbh. Shatter is so great 1V1 AND team fights every1 uses it. 4 mesmer 1 guardian teams aren't even uncommon anymore.

#34 Mekkakat

Mekkakat

    Vanguard Scout

  • Moderators
  • 371 posts
  • Location:Pittsburgh
  • Server:Borlis Pass

Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:24 PM

View PostAthletic, on 11 October 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Spirit build rangers aren't good except maybe for you ele's.

Never even encountered a confusion mesmer tbh. Shatter is so great 1V1 AND team fights every1 uses it. 4 mesmer 1 guardian teams aren't even uncommon anymore.

I've also seen very few "Confusion" based Mesmers. Almost every Mes build I fight in tPvP is Shatter or Phantoms, and both pack Confusion spells.. So maybe I'm just missing something. Either way, I was referring to the class as a whole (as I think others were) - in that Mesmers are by far the best 1v1 class in the game right now.

- I want that purple stuff.


#35 Awake

Awake

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 310 posts
  • Guild Tag:[TR]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:11 PM

View PostAthletic, on 11 October 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Spirit build rangers aren't good except maybe for you ele's.

Never even encountered a confusion mesmer tbh. Shatter is so great 1V1 AND team fights every1 uses it. 4 mesmer 1 guardian teams aren't even uncommon anymore.

View PostMekkakat, on 11 October 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

I've also seen very few "Confusion" based Mesmers. Almost every Mes build I fight in tPvP is Shatter or Phantoms, and both pack Confusion spells.. So maybe I'm just missing something. Either way, I was referring to the class as a whole (as I think others were) - in that Mesmers are by far the best 1v1 class in the game right now.

That's because condi Mesmer isn't tPvP viable atm. Which is why shatter mesmers and phantasm mesmers are more prevalent. Being good at 1v1's and being good at tPvP are two very different things. The confusion you are seeing from fighting other mesmers is basically a side effect of their normal dmg. Neither of those builds runs condi runes or condi/confusion traits.

Also, lumping an entire class into one whole category is something you shouldn't be doing. Different builds within different classes are almost like sub classes unto themselves. What you're suggesting is something along the lines of someone saying all Ele's are unkillable because staff/support Ele is unkillable, while a glass D/D build is far from it. Each individual build has it's own strengths and weaknesses and play very different from each other.

Just don't run around with the misconception that every Mesmer you fight is by default a 1v1 counter to everything.

#36 Mekkakat

Mekkakat

    Vanguard Scout

  • Moderators
  • 371 posts
  • Location:Pittsburgh
  • Server:Borlis Pass

Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:13 PM

View PostAwake, on 11 October 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

That's because condi Mesmer isn't tPvP viable atm. Which is why shatter mesmers and phantasm mesmers are more prevalent. Being good at 1v1's and being good at tPvP are two very different things. The confusion you are seeing from fighting other mesmers is basically a side effect of their normal dmg. Neither of those builds runs condi runes or condi/confusion traits.

Also, lumping an entire class into one whole category is something you shouldn't be doing. Different builds within different classes are almost like sub classes unto themselves. What you're suggesting is something along the lines of someone saying all Ele's are unkillable because staff/support Ele is unkillable, while a glass D/D build is far from it. Each individual build has it's own strengths and weaknesses and play very different from each other.

Just don't run around with the misconception that every Mesmer you fight is by default a 1v1 counter to everything.

I don't think I implied that I was.. If anything the opposite. I'm not a fan of everyone saying the Elementalist is "balanced" when we really only have ONE viable build in mid-high end PvP. That's lumping us together.

- I want that purple stuff.


#37 Awake

Awake

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 310 posts
  • Guild Tag:[TR]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:17 PM

View PostMekkakat, on 12 October 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

I don't think I implied that I was.. If anything the opposite. I'm not a fan of everyone saying the Elementalist is "balanced" when we really only have ONE viable build in mid-high end PvP. That's lumping us together.

You said that Mesmer is the best 1v1 class. That what I was referring to.

Not all Mesmer builds are created equal.

#38 DaPala

DaPala

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 159 posts
  • Location:Berlin, Germany
  • Guild Tag:[VAN]
  • Server:Riverside

Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:34 PM

View PostAwake, on 12 October 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

You said that Mesmer is the best 1v1 class. That what I was referring to.

Not all Mesmer builds are created equal.

That is like saying: "You can't say prepatch ele was OP with 20k firegrabs, because some people still play like shit and lose with it."

If a build that can only be created by one profession (obv) is overpowered, so is the profession. Yes, if you specify it, it is the build that is OP, but it leads to the profession being OP, even if not everyone will play said build.
This is the approach to balance - you can't say "hey that class with that undodgeable oneshot-move doesn't need a nerf, I saw a player yesterday that didn't find his button" - but you have to look at the raw numbers and conclude what each profession can dish out under different cirumstances, i.e. the peak dps/burst and the difficulty to perform that combo, while also measuring the difficulty to avoid it.
(Btw that's what's up with the ele atm - combo peak is low, difficulty to perform it is high and difficulty to dodge it is among the lowest in the game - heck you even dodge it if you just randomly move).

Edited by DaPala, 12 October 2012 - 04:37 PM.


#39 Mekkakat

Mekkakat

    Vanguard Scout

  • Moderators
  • 371 posts
  • Location:Pittsburgh
  • Server:Borlis Pass

Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:06 PM

View PostAwake, on 12 October 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

You said that Mesmer is the best 1v1 class. That what I was referring to.

Not all Mesmer builds are created equal.

View PostDaPala, on 12 October 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

That is like saying: "You can't say prepatch ele was OP with 20k firegrabs, because some people still play like shit and lose with it."

If a build that can only be created by one profession (obv) is overpowered, so is the profession. Yes, if you specify it, it is the build that is OP, but it leads to the profession being OP, even if not everyone will play said build.
This is the approach to balance - you can't say "hey that class with that undodgeable oneshot-move doesn't need a nerf, I saw a player yesterday that didn't find his button" - but you have to look at the raw numbers and conclude what each profession can dish out under different cirumstances, i.e. the peak dps/burst and the difficulty to perform that combo, while also measuring the difficulty to avoid it.
(Btw that's what's up with the ele atm - combo peak is low, difficulty to perform it is high and difficulty to dodge it is among the lowest in the game - heck you even dodge it if you just randomly move).

This.

My statement is purposely blanketed when 2 of the 5 best builds in the game are Mesmer builds, and on average, at least every tPvP team has 3 Mesmers.

I don't care what the build is - the class is simply strong as hell.

- I want that purple stuff.


#40 Awake

Awake

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 310 posts
  • Guild Tag:[TR]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 13 October 2012 - 03:13 PM

View PostDaPala, on 12 October 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

That is like saying: "You can't say prepatch ele was OP with 20k firegrabs, because some people still play like shit and lose with it."

If a build that can only be created by one profession (obv) is overpowered, so is the profession. Yes, if you specify it, it is the build that is OP, but it leads to the profession being OP, even if not everyone will play said build.
This is the approach to balance - you can't say "hey that class with that undodgeable oneshot-move doesn't need a nerf, I saw a player yesterday that didn't find his button" - but you have to look at the raw numbers and conclude what each profession can dish out under different cirumstances, i.e. the peak dps/burst and the difficulty to perform that combo, while also measuring the difficulty to avoid it.
(Btw that's what's up with the ele atm - combo peak is low, difficulty to perform it is high and difficulty to dodge it is among the lowest in the game - heck you even dodge it if you just randomly move).

This is fundamentally wrong. It has nothing to do with player skill. Just because fire grab was too strong at one point, doesn't mean the entire Ele class is too strong. So an off hand dagger ability hits too hard and you want to infer that ALL ELE's are overpowered? Including Ele's who don't even use off hand dagger? What about support Ele's? It doesn't make any sense.

Builds and weapon sets are unique unto themselves.

I'm not trying to say Mesmers aren't a strong class, I just don't think lumping the entire class together into a sweeping generalization is a good idea. We were simply talking about their 1v1 capabilities as per the OP. And I mentioned that shatter beuild (the build the OP was fighting against) was not the best 1v1 build like someone had mentioned.

View PostMekkakat, on 12 October 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

and on average, at least every tPvP team has 3 Mesmers.

Not sure what teams you're talking about. The meta game for tPvP right now is bunker heavy. If a team is running with more than 1 Mesmer they are doing it wrong. 3-4 bunker teams are the best comps atm. Some teams don't even run Mesmers at all as they aren't necessary in point contention, and Mesmer on treb is completely nullified by 1 support Ele.

#41 shaolinwind

shaolinwind

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 941 posts

Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:40 PM

Nice vid Aky.

Kind of misleading though. If the Mesmer were a bit closer to your skill level wth the ele, and the build more tuned to 1v1 he would probably rofl stomp you off the map.

#42 LUDAK987654

LUDAK987654

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 125 posts

Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:45 AM

View PostAky, on 10 October 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

There is something called a "brain" which is not forbidden to use as far as I know.

Ah u knew that :),i guess u dont need healing that much then,u prefer to die it seams...

Edited by LUDAK987654, 16 October 2012 - 01:54 AM.


#43 Ankah

Ankah

    Fahrar Cub

  • New Members
  • 12 posts
  • Location:France
  • Guild Tag:[FwD]
  • Server:ArborStone

Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:38 PM

View PostLUDAK987654, on 16 October 2012 - 01:45 AM, said:

Ah u knew that :),i guess u dont need healing that much then,u prefer to die it seams...

Such clever people around here... Did you at least read Mekkakat answer ?

View PostMekkakat, on 10 October 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

Unless you have Stone traited, blowing your healing Signet means you lose a lot of passive healing. It's better to keep popping water and trying to rapid cast if you can.



Anyway, thanks Aky for the vid, I'm playing these two classes as my mains but have a higher lvl with my mesmer so it's very usefull to me to look at your video on the ele side.
As many has earlier said, the mesmer was more in a point holder build with the staff. That was how i played my mesmer too until recently even if I was not on a point-holder role. I don't realy know why, I just decided that GS sucked when I tested it back in the beta and kept this idea -_-
But that's right, in a fight like this, the GS would have been much better to compete against you.

Anyway thanks to you two and keep coming the great Ele vids ! :)

PS : sorry for my English

#44 ultima

ultima

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 69 posts

Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:27 PM

mediocre mesma

u gonna loose vs  a good shatterer mesma so easily : moa root dead....

#45 Playpad

Playpad

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 19 posts
  • Guild Tag:[PRE]
  • Server:Riverside

Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:43 PM

for what reason should any good mesmer using moa in an 1on1 if they duel each other for gaining experience?

and who the heck would actually fraps a fight being moa-morphed and killed in a few seconds? Seriously.

#46 LUDAK987654

LUDAK987654

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 125 posts

Posted 17 October 2012 - 12:30 AM

View PostAnkah, on 16 October 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

Such clever people around here... Did you at least read Mekkakat answer ?





Anyway, thanks Aky for the vid, I'm playing these two classes as my mains but have a higher lvl with my mesmer so it's very usefull to me to look at your video on the ele side.
As many has earlier said, the mesmer was more in a point holder build with the staff. That was how i played my mesmer too until recently even if I was not on a point-holder role. I don't realy know why, I just decided that GS sucked when I tested it back in the beta and kept this idea -_-
But that's right, in a fight like this, the GS would have been much better to compete against you.

Anyway thanks to you two and keep coming the great Ele vids ! :)

PS : sorry for my English

I do not agree with mekkakats statement, in a situation where u are  (forced) to use mist form to escape direct dmg u should  also heal to full health if u can, this is in no way limiting your water heals.

In some fights he has recorded signet direct  heal would bring him advantage over heal on hit,to completely ignore signet heal is foolish imho,
but if "......" says other wise he must be right,right?

GL

Edited by LUDAK987654, 17 October 2012 - 12:32 AM.


#47 Hypnotize

Hypnotize

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 105 posts

Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:27 PM

View PostPlaypad, on 16 October 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

for what reason should any good mesmer using moa in an 1on1 if they duel each other for gaining experience?

and who the heck would actually fraps a fight being moa-morphed and killed in a few seconds? Seriously.

ultima is Sithladyultima, he was in did the same thing in aion crap rota is crap rota

#48 Mekkakat

Mekkakat

    Vanguard Scout

  • Moderators
  • 371 posts
  • Location:Pittsburgh
  • Server:Borlis Pass

Posted 18 October 2012 - 01:26 AM

View PostLUDAK987654, on 17 October 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

I do not agree with mekkakats statement, in a situation where u are  (forced) to use mist form to escape direct dmg u should  also heal to full health if u can, this is in no way limiting your water heals.

In some fights he has recorded signet direct  heal would bring him advantage over heal on hit,to completely ignore signet heal is foolish imho,
but if "......" says other wise he must be right,right?

GL

With Signet on 6, I'd strongly suggest spamming your fastest 1 skill while moving in Mist Form unless you're below half HP. Losing your passive heal is a big bummer on a healing skill that is only good because of it.

- I want that purple stuff.


#49 ultima

ultima

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 69 posts

Posted 22 October 2012 - 02:31 AM

View PostHypnotize, on 17 October 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

ultima is Sithladyultima, he was in did the same thing in aion crap rota is crap rota
yea that was me in aion :D
i loved to see people logging out when they see me in abyss....

but i wanna do some big aoe damage but staffele's damage is so low :(

Edited by ultima, 22 October 2012 - 02:32 AM.


#50 KaneK89

KaneK89

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 182 posts

Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:07 AM

View Postshaolinwind, on 15 October 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

Nice vid Aky.

Kind of misleading though. If the Mesmer were a bit closer to your skill level wth the ele, and the build more tuned to 1v1 he would probably rofl stomp you off the map.

It's less misleading.  No Mesmer, in a team-based game, is going to specifically spec for 1v1.  Making a duel video of two people using duelist specs would be misleading.  No, this is more accurate.  How you kill a typical shatter Mesmer you see in 5v5.

Nice vid, Aky.  Anyone who still claims Ele is bad probably needs to work on their build, or their skills.  Ele isn't fine, but certain specs are definitely viable.

#51 DaPala

DaPala

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 159 posts
  • Location:Berlin, Germany
  • Guild Tag:[VAN]
  • Server:Riverside

Posted 22 October 2012 - 01:53 PM

View PostKaneK89, on 22 October 2012 - 07:07 AM, said:

It's less misleading.  No Mesmer, in a team-based game, is going to specifically spec for 1v1.  Making a duel video of two people using duelist specs would be misleading.  No, this is more accurate.  How you kill a typical shatter Mesmer you see in 5v5.

Nice vid, Aky.  Anyone who still claims Ele is bad probably needs to work on their build, or their skills.  Ele isn't fine, but certain specs are definitely viable.

#1: Mesmer Shatter Spec just coincidentally happens to be the best 1v1 and one of the best teamfighting specs at once - yes you might have problems with bunkers, but who doesn't. Also, if a spec is strong 1v1 it mostly also is strong in teamfights (often just with relatively small changes, but that is mostly preference)
#2: Can't agree more on ele viability - It just needs some slight changes, then good eles will stand out like supernovas, roundhousekicking everyone :D (Sounds bad, but how it should be imo, among the highest skillcap in the game, with engineers - should be the highest reward [Maybe not higher, but at least not lower!])

Edited by DaPala, 22 October 2012 - 01:55 PM.


#52 kilger

kilger

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 551 posts
  • Server:Dragonbrand

Posted 22 October 2012 - 02:15 PM

View PostGoldian, on 11 October 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

Nice video

Im new to gw2,started with my gf

My main, elementalist is level 40
I did my first Spvp matches today, with your build. I never playd with scepter in pve (I use 2x dagger) and the first matches i ended up first
15 kills/0 deahts. Always on rampage in every match and i can win or survive 3v1`s

Funny thing, im sure itll get harder once i gain some rank.
But im also a "noob" since these are my first matches

Glad ele aint that useless as this forum makes it to be

Keep in mind that a lot of that depends on your team and their team... Not saying its not good, just not sure its that much better than d/d,  I do great with d/d but its a little bit more all or nothing I suppose.

View PostDaPala, on 22 October 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

#1: Mesmer Shatter Spec just coincidentally happens to be the best 1v1 and one of the best teamfighting specs at once - yes you might have problems with bunkers, but who doesn't. Also, if a spec is strong 1v1 it mostly also is strong in teamfights (often just with relatively small changes, but that is mostly preference)

Clones tend to get wiped out constantly if there is any aoe-ers so its never a full shatter in team play.

Edited by kilger, 22 October 2012 - 02:16 PM.


#53 ak47_training

ak47_training

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 70 posts

Posted 24 October 2012 - 02:28 AM

Aky

Thank you for the vid, it was pretty educating. I got tad better at reading mesmer telegraphing.

I was very glad to see your most different approach to Elementalist. Your build is very unique and while I'm surprised to see it actually works, it is refreshing to know that there are people who think for themselves (I'm proud to count myself among those with my Cantrip D/D attrition-war build), who invent and make work many more viable builds for Ele, very different from the meta-dominating Staff Bunker.

Too bad though the unavoidable 10 arcane / 15 water are still here. But oh well. At least the weapon and utility variations are vast.

Edited by ak47_training, 24 October 2012 - 02:29 AM.


#54 Lachanche

Lachanche

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 217 posts

Posted 02 November 2012 - 12:12 AM

After carefully watching your video i think i discovered your build.
http://gw2skills.net...gjAHbNuak1MsYSB

i am almost sure about traits, not so much about runes/sigils.
i think i saw a lighting strike somewhere at the begininning and a flame strike too

your signet heals you for 261 while mine ticks for 260 so something may be messed up but the hp are the same you show in the video.

can you confirm this o_O ?

#55 Sephorai

Sephorai

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 264 posts

Posted 02 November 2012 - 05:04 AM

View PostLachanche, on 02 November 2012 - 12:12 AM, said:

After carefully watching your video i think i discovered your build.
http://gw2skills.net...gjAHbNuak1MsYSB

i am almost sure about traits, not so much about runes/sigils.
i think i saw a lighting strike somewhere at the begininning and a flame strike too

your signet heals you for 261 while mine ticks for 260 so something may be messed up but the hp are the same you show in the video.

can you confirm this o_O ?
You can find his build in the Aky Build Compilation thread. It is caled S/D Aggresive Boon Ele. I run a similar variation.

#56 stlfenix47

stlfenix47

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 61 posts

Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:47 AM

The video was...fine. But, honestly, idk see how that mesmer is tourney quality at all. And, while you do have some nice moves, your build is extremely squishy, and should have gotten shut down by a tournament player in this 1v1 situation, especially a mesmer of all classes.

Edited by stlfenix47, 02 November 2012 - 08:48 AM.


#57 HappyRainbow

HappyRainbow

    Pale Tree Seedling

  • New Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 06 November 2012 - 01:48 PM

I actually support Aky,
true 90% of ele's are just easy points but you get a select few that are nearly unkillable 1v1 I guess using a similar build to yours. although they seemed better at defence (not played much as ele so dont know builds)

I also disagree with the phantasm build is the worst build for mesmers, played well it can outclass both the others. if you defend your phantasms like your best friend as well as yourself with the control and put them and yourself in good places ive not met a class that can stand close to it other than that ele >_>.

Edited by HappyRainbow, 06 November 2012 - 01:50 PM.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: elementalist, versus, mesmer

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users