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#31 Eon Lilu

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 11:19 AM

View PostFoxBat, on 21 October 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

Crowdfunding support that impressed investors, who he is now beholdent to for milestones, quarterly updates and so forth.

After his history in 20-30 years making games, the problems he had with publishers and big company's in the past plus his industry contacts and the fact he hates the direction publishers and the direction the pc gaming industry has gone im pretty sure if he got an investor causing issues with devolement, he would tell that investor to ***** off.

All he would need to do is show something more substantial to the players base in a year or so and would gather more crowd funding is necessary.

I don't see this guy giving up until his game is made. If the game is going to be even half as good as freelancer, that would make it awesome lol.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 21 October 2012 - 11:21 AM.


#32 Stargate

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 07:13 PM

Well I hope they create an Epic Story like in the old SCIFI TV series Babylon 5.

View PostStargate, on 07 July 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

Time to continue the SCIFI story. Many years after the nanorobots build Babylon 5 spacestation in 2030 then one day a 1000 year old thing is discovered:

Babylon 5 is an old TV serie from 90ies that has shit season 1. That said in season 2 the main story slowly begans to form. The words in the beginning of the tune are from the main story. The very old TVserie get bigger budget and effects season after season and in Season 5 it is pretty ok effects.

To continue this claim...

View PostStargate, on 07 July 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

On the other hand they say that genious and crazines are close to each other and many chessmasters with high IQ have become literally insane in the history.

There is a faster way to reach insanity that I would not recommend:
Spoiler
Anyway this game is hyped way to early. Of what I heard I would not expect release before 2015.

Edited by Stargate, 21 October 2012 - 07:16 PM.


#33 Heart Collector

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:18 PM

View PostStargate, on 21 October 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

Anyway this game is hyped way to early. Of what I heard I would not expect release before 2015.
Taken from the website:
Spoiler

So yeah I am guessing we'll see the game about 2015 as you said.

#34 The Comfy Chair

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:22 PM

View PostStargate, on 21 October 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

Anyway this game is hyped way to early. Of what I heard I would not expect release before 2015.

People are just happy to see it happening.

But you are right, it wont be releasing for years, this is a good year or two before a standard announcement because it's a kickstarter project. This is the pitch a publisher would usually get a long time before a reveal.

What's really annoying is people saying 'there's so much we haven't seen! i'm not funding it!' not realizing the game doesn't exist yet! It's being kickstarted, not kickfinished. This is definitely the most detailed kickstarter project i've seen for a game though, and it's very obvious they've got some solid concepts in place and some good people already involved.

Edited by The Comfy Chair, 30 October 2012 - 11:24 PM.

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#35 Elan

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 01:19 AM

As excited as I am for it, I think he's over reaching, honestly.  Dude has not made a real game in years.  The demands are higher then ever.  Make a fantastic combat space sim, make it have a great single player, and a multiplayer functionality.  Awesome!  But rolling all that, plus the infrastructure for a full on MMO galaxy?  As soon as you make a persistent universe, it instantly and exponentially increases the difficulty of production, minimum required level of initial content, and likelihood of massive bugs.

I'd love it if he could pull it off.  I just have my reservations.

#36 Eon Lilu

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 04:19 AM

View PostElan, on 31 October 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

As excited as I am for it, I think he's over reaching, honestly.  Dude has not made a real game in years.  The demands are higher then ever.  Make a fantastic combat space sim, make it have a great single player, and a multiplayer functionality.  Awesome!  But rolling all that, plus the infrastructure for a full on MMO galaxy?  As soon as you make a persistent universe, it instantly and exponentially increases the difficulty of production, minimum required level of initial content, and likelihood of massive bugs.

I'd love it if he could pull it off.  I just have my reservations.

Have you played freelancer? The amount of love for that game the players gave to it including running there own server and patching global servers when microsoft shut the support down, they made 100's of there own mods for the game. Even if he just made Freelancer 2 and it was just half as good as freelancer 1, it would still make it an awesome game. :) Yes I am a freelancer fanboi.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 31 October 2012 - 04:22 AM.


#37 Heart Collector

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 06:51 AM

View PostElan, on 31 October 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

As excited as I am for it, I think he's over reaching, honestly.  Dude has not made a real game in years.  The demands are higher then ever.  Make a fantastic combat space sim, make it have a great single player, and a multiplayer functionality.  Awesome!  But rolling all that, plus the infrastructure for a full on MMO galaxy?  As soon as you make a persistent universe, it instantly and exponentially increases the difficulty of production, minimum required level of initial content, and likelihood of massive bugs.

I'd love it if he could pull it off.  I just have my reservations.

That is my fear too - but hope dies last! And as Eon said, even if it's half as good as Freelancer it'll still be a great game :D

#38 Klaleara

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:13 PM

I've been kind of fighting a one man battle here.  I think this guy is grabbing cash hard.  He may like the genre, and actually want to make the game.  But I see him as being overly greedy.

He has 2 crowd funding mechanisms, with different amounts.  Has not mentioned if he will combine them for stretch goals (I believe they are different).  Is going to have an in-game cash shop (WHY!?!?!?!).  And his Stretch Goals are ludicrous, for example a single ship for a $500,000 stretch goal, it must be one of the biggest, most details, unique ships for it to be worth that much.  He is basically going to pocket $490,000 with that stretch goal at the very least.

I will say this, the game itself looks amazing, I'm REALLY hoping it ends up as awesome as he says.  However I will not back his project (I have backed 9 other projects) due to his business methods.  From what I can tell, he is gobbling up as much money as possible.

#39 Elan

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:47 PM

To be fair, to obtain his goals, he needs to gobble up a ton of money.  Not for models, but for content and the infrastructure required in the type of game he's reaching for.  Which is where my concern lays.

I truly truly hope he achieves his goals.  I do.  It would be a fantastic game from a fantastic but almost forgotten genre.  I fear the man is over reaching, however.  Making a game today is not like making a game in the '90s, unfortunately.

#40 Klaleara

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 10:53 PM

View PostElan, on 01 November 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

To be fair, to obtain his goals, he needs to gobble up a ton of money.  Not for models, but for content and the infrastructure required in the type of game he's reaching for.  Which is where my concern lays.

I truly truly hope he achieves his goals.  I do.  It would be a fantastic game from a fantastic but almost forgotten genre.  I fear the man is over reaching, however.  Making a game today is not like making a game in the '90s, unfortunately.

I can agree to that.  

Don't get me wrong, it is a dream game of mine.  Controlling a Carrier with several friends, and having a blast doing it?  Sounds perfect to me!

#41 Eon Lilu

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:21 PM

They just passed 2.5 million raised goal, next goal is 3 million.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 01 November 2012 - 11:21 PM.


#42 Elan

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:27 PM

....yeah, but for a game of this scale they're probably gonna need at least $20 mil.  At least.

#43 Heart Collector

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 07:07 AM

View PostKlaleara, on 01 November 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

I've been kind of fighting a one man battle here.  I think this guy is grabbing cash hard.  He may like the genre, and actually want to make the game.  But I see him as being overly greedy.

He has 2 crowd funding mechanisms, with different amounts.  Has not mentioned if he will combine them for stretch goals (I believe they are different).  Is going to have an in-game cash shop (WHY!?!?!?!).  And his Stretch Goals are ludicrous, for example a single ship for a $500,000 stretch goal, it must be one of the biggest, most details, unique ships for it to be worth that much.  He is basically going to pocket $490,000 with that stretch goal at the very least.

I will say this, the game itself looks amazing, I'm REALLY hoping it ends up as awesome as he says.  However I will not back his project (I have backed 9 other projects) due to his business methods.  From what I can tell, he is gobbling up as much money as possible.

Chris Roberts brought us the Wing Commander and Privateer franchise, not to mention Freelancer and (I think) Starlancer. He's not some random guy who decided to up and make a space sim out of nowhere :) His games were actually a hallmark in gaming and very innovating in many respects, and he's considered the father of space opera games (not space sims, just space opera games, I think the title would go to Elite for that). So I actually have faith in him. After all I did grow up with his games!

#44 Eon Lilu

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 07:51 AM

View PostElan, on 01 November 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

....yeah, but for a game of this scale they're probably gonna need at least $20 mil.  At least.

There starting goal to make the game was 2 million. Now it's just a case how much they can put into the game and how quickly they can create it.

#45 Elan

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 11:10 AM

2 Mil cuts it for a 1990's game.  It won't cut it now.  That's the disconnect.  The fact that he wants it to have MMo characteristics is immediately going to jack up his production costs.  Sure he might only need enough money to attract a proper investor, but 2 mil is dreadfully low for a game of this scale in this day and age.  To put things into perspective, Lineage 3, before it was stolen/salvaged for TERA, had used up $14 million, and that was just in securing the the graphics engine, making necessary modifications, and producing the limited art assets.  $14 million for an unfinished game.  Then you look at 38 studios, who - even putting aside an absolutely abysmal use of money and organization - used, what, $80 million before it was finally put down?  And SWTOR which used anywhere between $150-$300 mil depending on who you ask?  (To the point even I'm not sure!)

2 mil is chump change.  For a fully fleshed out single player and freelancer-esque MMO?  Way too low a goal.  The numbers do not make sense.  Again, I would love it to work, but that is just too low a goal to be reasonable.

Edited by Elan, 02 November 2012 - 11:11 AM.


#46 Klaleara

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 02:21 PM

View PostHeart Collector, on 02 November 2012 - 07:07 AM, said:

Chris Roberts brought us the Wing Commander and Privateer franchise, not to mention Freelancer and (I think) Starlancer. He's not some random guy who decided to up and make a space sim out of nowhere :) His games were actually a hallmark in gaming and very innovating in many respects, and he's considered the father of space opera games (not space sims, just space opera games, I think the title would go to Elite for that). So I actually have faith in him. After all I did grow up with his games!

I know who it is.  And honestly, it doesn't matter if they are famous, innovative, or some bum.  They can all rip you off if they want.

#47 The Comfy Chair

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 01:12 PM

View PostEon Lilu, on 02 November 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

There starting goal to make the game was 2 million. Now it's just a case how much they can put into the game and how quickly they can create it.

View PostElan, on 02 November 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

2 Mil cuts it for a 1990's game.  It won't cut it now.  That's the disconnect.  The fact that he wants it to have MMo characteristics is immediately going to jack up his production costs.  Sure he might only need enough money to attract a proper investor, but 2 mil is dreadfully low for a game of this scale in this day and age.  To put things into perspective, Lineage 3, before it was stolen/salvaged for TERA, had used up $14 million, and that was just in securing the the graphics engine, making necessary modifications, and producing the limited art assets.  $14 million for an unfinished game.  Then you look at 38 studios, who - even putting aside an absolutely abysmal use of money and organization - used, what, $80 million before it was finally put down?  And SWTOR which used anywhere between $150-$300 mil depending on who you ask?  (To the point even I'm not sure!)

2 mil is chump change.  For a fully fleshed out single player and freelancer-esque MMO?  Way too low a goal.  The numbers do not make sense.  Again, I would love it to work, but that is just too low a goal to be reasonable.

It was to get $2m so they can convince investors to give them X amount of money on top, the more they can get from crowdfunding, the more the investors will add.

The game isn't going to cost $2m to make. More like $10m minimum.

Games aren't cheap as Elan rightly pointed out, which is why the game is not being funded exclusively via crowdfunding.

Also note than ToR was a failure in every way financially, no game should cost that much. GW2 will have ran into the $50-80m bracket, and GW2 is vastly superior in many, many aspects compared to ToR (even in voice acting, GW2 has some really talented voice actors - except the norn story - whereas ToR's was only ever as good as GW2's average voice acting).

I would also note that the layout for star citizen is more a GW1/GW2 hybrid than a big open world (instances are generated as required when players will be in the same area when away from the major systems). After all, space is pretty big, it'd be a waste of processing power to handle all of it all the time. It should have the net effect of seeming like an open world though.

If you're concerned, take some time to read through all the information. It's solid. Put it this way: this is the first game i've 'kickstarted' because it's the first game i've seen enough to be convinced it's something that will 1) be made and 2) achieve what is outlined. What they're doing only sounds 'too much' if you've not read how they've done it, or plan on doing it :)

It's kind of like in the pre-gw2 launch hype where some people didn't know how anet would manage X, some people (like me) knew how they were handling X by reading and (when required) sensible logical extrapolations grounded in software development experience, and others who went completely OTT and made up their own fantasies about what it'd be like.

Edited by The Comfy Chair, 03 November 2012 - 02:33 PM.

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#48 Eon Lilu

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 01:35 PM

View PostElan, on 02 November 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

2 Mil cuts it for a 1990's game.  It won't cut it now.  That's the disconnect.  The fact that he wants it to have MMo characteristics is immediately going to jack up his production costs.  Sure he might only need enough money to attract a proper investor, but 2 mil is dreadfully low for a game of this scale in this day and age.  To put things into perspective, Lineage 3, before it was stolen/salvaged for TERA, had used up $14 million, and that was just in securing the the graphics engine, making necessary modifications, and producing the limited art assets.  $14 million for an unfinished game.  Then you look at 38 studios, who - even putting aside an absolutely abysmal use of money and organization - used, what, $80 million before it was finally put down?  And SWTOR which used anywhere between $150-$300 mil depending on who you ask?  (To the point even I'm not sure!)

2 mil is chump change.  For a fully fleshed out single player and freelancer-esque MMO?  Way too low a goal.  The numbers do not make sense.  Again, I would love it to work, but that is just too low a goal to be reasonable.

As said above the 2 million was just to prove players wanted the game, goal complete, investors is what will pay for it. 2 million was what they needed to make sure they got enough to guarentee it would be made. Now the extra funding will dictate how quickly they make the game and how much they get to put in for launch. It is still years away from being made although they have said that some early pledgers will get access to demo, alpha gameplay in roughly 12 months.

It's the first game I have pledge on and supported on kickstarter, reason being is freelancer who was created by this guy is my all time favourite game and lasted many years of gameplay due to the fact it was not just the game itself but the universe, immersion and lore, modding, the ability to roleplay a zillion types of characters and factions, the imagination of it was limitless, which I find is something seriously lacking into today's mmo's that all seem, shallow, casual and cheap.

So if this game is going to be anything like freelancer was, which so far looks to be the case, then I just wish they would hurry up and get it made. :P

Edited by Eon Lilu, 03 November 2012 - 01:42 PM.


#49 The Comfy Chair

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:48 PM

Just an update on the above topic: the game's estimated production cost is ~$20m

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#50 Eon Lilu

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:00 AM

There really close to reaching there 3million pledge goal, take a look and see if you want to help get this game made.

http://www.robertssp...tizen/?rid=3591

Edited by Eon Lilu, 08 November 2012 - 01:00 AM.


#51 Heart Collector

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:18 AM

View PostKlaleara, on 02 November 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

I know who it is.  And honestly, it doesn't matter if they are famous, innovative, or some bum.  They can all rip you off if they want.

I know, but so far his games haven't disappointed me one bit so I'd rather stay optimistic :P

#52 Eon Lilu

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 09:24 PM

Well they just passed the 3 million dollars mark so they thrashed there goal and there will definetly be a game with online persistant universe made. Bloody awesome! Going to be for PC only and for medium-high to high end gaming machines, if you like wing commander games, freelancer, privateer, eve online but with no click and fly but true fly by wire space sim, if you like any of those games you will love Star Citizen-Squadron 42.

Raised: $3,178,272

Feel free to take a look, register and pledge: http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen/?rid=3591


More info below, Star Citizen - Announcement - GDC 2012 Panel, Star Citizen - Gameplay (GDC 2012), Star Citizen - Chris Roberts Pitch Video.













Edited by Eon Lilu, 10 November 2012 - 09:28 PM.


#53 Klaleara

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:39 PM

If anyone cares, couple of devs streaming atm.

http://www.robertssp...izen-live-chat/

#54 The Comfy Chair

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:04 PM

Well, it reached $6.3m or so.

Good times!

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#55 HawkofStorms

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:15 PM

Hmmmm... now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure I own every one of his games.

My Sidewinder is getting dusty sitting in the corner.

#56 Eon Lilu

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:06 AM

I think it got the top spot for most successful kickstarter / crowdfunded game.




Edited by Eon Lilu, 20 November 2012 - 03:09 AM.


#57 Heart Collector

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:08 PM

Thanks Eon for the vids... Man I can't wait (but I have to) :D

#58 Rhododendron

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:22 AM

Can anyone believe this ? The guy says he raised 5 million dollars from donations for a video game.

#59 Eon Lilu

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:22 PM

View PostRhododendron, on 21 November 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Can anyone believe this ? The guy says he raised 5 million dollars from donations for a video game.

$6,575,599 :P and yes. :)

http://www.robertssp...tizen/?rid=3591

If your asked who referred you my name on that site is: TRON

Still time to pledge and check out the game. Also can use kickstarter.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 22 November 2012 - 05:31 PM.


#60 Rhododendron

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:21 AM

I'm a little worried. I would personally just grab the money and vanish to a tropical island.
What? Suddenly le wild 6 Milllion dollars appears and i'm supposed to start building a revolutionary space game from the ground up that rivals that seasoned MMO sacred monster called EVE? Also, those videos look way too good for an indie game producer that needs donations.

Naaaaaa.. Margaritas foar meee.




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