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Help with dungeons/survivability?

thief survivability dungeons build

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#1 Al Shamari

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:03 AM

Hey guys! So, I've rolled a Thief as my main and so far I'm around level 50. I can play through most areas with little to no problem, but I haven't really expanded too much beyond what I know best.

So, I'm looking for a little help in terms of dungeon running and survivability. I really wouldn't say I'm all that bad a surviving, as I can often effectively use evasive skills. But, in dungeons and harder areas, my trait of being extremely squishy can be a pain.

Right now I'm basically running entirely glass cannon, which is obviously why (aiming for 30/30/10/0/0). So, I'm wondering, should I gear for more vitality/toughness in dungeons? Should I run a more supportive utility build? Right now I run dagger/dagger with a short bow secondary (I mostly run short bow in dungeons due to being so squishy. I'm running Signet of Malice, Haste, Signet of Shadows and Assassin's Signet.

So basically, I'm trying not to entirely re-trait, because I would like to max my damage output... but, should I gear differently or run a different build/use a different weapon choice, etc?

Thanks!

#2 Reikou

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:07 AM

IMO stacking defense in this game is useless, especially in PvE because of the ability to dodge and completely avoid taking hits.  Just get good at dodging and avoiding attacks and you will be fine.

#3 Al Shamari

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:11 AM

View PostReikou, on 11 October 2012 - 05:07 AM, said:

IMO stacking defense in this game is useless, especially in PvE because of the ability to dodge and completely avoid taking hits.  Just get good at dodging and avoiding attacks and you will be fine.
See, I am reasonable at dodging. But, there are situations when the game can overwhelm you and dodging isn't quite as effective. This being said, I'm improving every day (especially as I start to venture into dungeons more often) in terms of how well I'm able to dodge and use other evasive forms of defense. I will continue to improve. But, I'm not really looking to stack defense as a Thief, seeing as we are supposed to be "damage dealers". But, what I am looking to do is possibly increase my survivability enough to withstand more than one shot before getting downed. I make minimal mistakes at times, we all do. I would like to be able to be given a chance to live through those mistakes.

So, is there anything in terms of gear or even a more 'support effective' build that would let me get away with a little more?

#4 Reikou

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:43 AM

Well, what are you running as your utility skills?  Also, what situations are you caught in that the game "overwhelms" you?

Also in this game dodging/evasion is synonymous with defense.  Actual defensive stats provide very minimal benefits when compared to dodging.

#5 shadowstorme1122

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:36 AM

For me when i started grinding in dungeons i had a 25/30/0/0/15 stat with full berserker set.. most of the time i get in the downed state which really ticks me off i know im a thief which shouldnt get hit or must be good in dodging stuff unfortunately im not too good in that aspect..

In a way stacking defense is useless if you think you can "TANK" or just STAND and take the hits from mobs... but for me stacking defensive stats its not bad..

Currently im in full knight's gear expect for weapons which is bersker.. i still get to the downed state at times but not as before in where i really can't take any hits what so ever.... i can feel some how the extra toughness i got from gears helped me abit.  I plan on mixing valkyrie 3 and knight 3 same for accessories but for weapon i will still go for berserker..  my build is not traditional aswell in fact i haven't seen it being used or being discussed maybe its wrong or sub-optimal but it works for me... which is 20/30/0/20/0 using p/p and s/p as my weapon set,

Edited by shadowstorme1122, 11 October 2012 - 06:37 AM.


#6 Prismatic Zach

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:50 AM

Hey there, I currently use Knight and Berserker's combined on my Guardian.
Sometimes I'll go down, but not often. This is mainly due to the fact that I know the dungeon in and out.
Toughness is important for longer battles, while vitality is more to survive that burst damage you may stumble into on accident.

A solid team comp and communication between each other is very important, both visual and verbal.
If you don't know the people in your PUG, explain what your role is. Let them know your weaknesses.

Learning about combo effects helps a lot.
Your death may just be prevented by a guardian laying down a wall of reflection so you can get condition removal with your projectiles.

Here's a link to what combo effects are. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combo

Keep in mind that not all team compositions work so well, compared to others.
Read a bit on the combo effects, make a group of dungeons friends over time, and PRACTICE.
I'm sure you'll be able to overcome your situation.

Best of luck!

Edited by Prismatic Zach, 11 October 2012 - 06:51 AM.


#7 Al Shamari

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:07 PM

Hey guys, thanks for the replies. Yeah, I mostly run dungeons with my guild. I have a few people on my contacts list to hit up if our guild is short a man or two or something like that, people I can rely on. This being said, I've only run Ascalonian Catacombs - and that's it - roughly five times. So, I'm sure I will improve with time... because I'm honestly not that bad, especially for being roughly level 50 without full gear, etc.

It's mostly the dungeons I have trouble with, and they are obviously one of the harder aspects of the game.

I'm not looking to soak up damage like a sponge or anything, really the only thing I'm trying to avoid is getting "one-shotted" when I make the smallest mistake (i.e. running into a trap, or mistiming a dodge by a second, etc) because that's where the pain comes in. I would just like to avoid going down in one hit.

I was running dagger/dagger with a shortbow alternative, with Haste, Signet of Shadows, and Assassin's Signet as my slot skills. Last night I switched that up, and ran a more supportive role. Swapping over to dagger/dagger and pistol/pistol. I swapped out my utilities for Smoke Screen, Shadow Refuge, and Blinding Powder. I'm not sure how well the build helped overall, since the path we took wasn't the best representation for how well the build can help a group in tight spots since much of Ascalonian Catacombs is very vast open spaces.

I also did start looking into combo effects last night, still a little confused on exactly how they function... but I'm getting there.

#8 shadowstorme1122

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:50 AM

View PostAlShamari, on 11 October 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

I'm not looking to soak up damage like a sponge or anything, really the only thing I'm trying to avoid is getting "one-shotted" when I make the smallest mistake (i.e. running into a trap, or mistiming a dodge by a second, etc) because that's where the pain comes in. I would just like to avoid going down in one hit.

Hello, same reason why i switched from full bersekr to knight + valkyrie combo.., if your very good at dodging things and other stuffs you can go with full berserker gear but if your like me who isn't too good in dodging things knight + valk combo is a right fit.  Toughness + Vit will give you enough survivability to take some condition damage or aoe attacks but speacial attacks like the boss in AC right before troll lieutenant something in where he pulls you and spins around no matter how high or vit and toughness chances are you will be in the downed state.

A nice test is do HoTW EM, running full berserker in HotW is too hard in where you have to be skilled enough so you can do it properly.

Edited by shadowstorme1122, 12 October 2012 - 02:51 AM.


#9 Al Shamari

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:56 AM

I think I'm just going to stick with glass cannon and just continue to improve my own ability. I've been running through Ascalonian Catacombs several times a day lately and I'm now reaching the point to where I'm having very minimal armor repairs and running a more supportive build with lots of team stealth, etc. It's working out rather nice and will continue to work out better once I level more!

#10 adra12

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:24 PM

One thing I would highly suggest is that if you are running a glass cannon trait build make sure 2/3 of your utility slots are defensive in nature. A couple of defensive utilities can literally make up for ant entire lack of vitality or toughness on your gear. Also 15 points in Acrobatics gets you a 3rd dodge which has saved my life on numerous occasions.

#11 BakaB

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:46 PM

15 in acrobats plus signet (of +precision) should be all you need. that's almost 5 dodges, condition removal, might & 2s swift after each dodge.

25/30/0/15/0

drops your dps a little since u cant C&D as often as a 30/30/10 build but I think in dungeons, 15 acro is a must.

Edited by BakaB, 12 October 2012 - 02:52 PM.


#12 BinxyPrime

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 03:53 PM

I wrote a thread on a 30 30 0 0 10 build and I was running signet of precision for condition removal, shadow refuge and signet of shadows for blind and I rarely get downed even in melee, the key is to know what fights you can't get close in, to constantly be moving to avoid at least some small hits, signet of malice will cover for the few you do take, NEVER engage a fight first, always wait a second or two for it to get going so you wont pull agro immediately,

There are some fights that are harder than others, especially the ones with instant AOE since your built in dodges dont work on those and those can occasionally one or two shot you which gets to be problematic, on those fights I recommend doing what you can until you get hit once then just get max range and use shortbow and res people while using blind on cd or whatever you choose to bring for this slot since it's the least useful of the abilities I listed.

Edited by BinxyPrime, 12 October 2012 - 03:53 PM.






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