Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help
- - - - -

As a Mesmer, how do I actually KILL people in WvW?


  • Please log in to reply
42 replies to this topic

#1 Karetan

Karetan

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 31 posts

Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:27 AM

I've posted on here before about getting into WvW, and I'm getting to the point where I do quite enjoy it - the only problem I'm having is that I can never seem to kill anyone!

I mean sure, when I'm in a zerg, I add my damage to other people's, but I rarely feel as though I'm the person who actually kills enemies. I just feel like I've tagged them before some Warrior comes over and actually does the necessary damage.

Today, in WvW, it was pretty quiet in one of the other borderlands so I tried to get in 1v1 and 1v2 fights with other players, to see how effective I was.

In terms of staying alive, I do pretty well. I'm pretty skilled at using blink, decoy, and summoning clones to keep people guessing - but this just means I can survive and eventually run away!

Case in point, I just had a situation where a group of people saw off an enemy force attacking a camp, and I saw a warrior with 1/2 health starting to run away. I ran after him and was in range plenty, but I just couldn't kill him! He's running away and not hitting me, and I got to wail on him for like 20 seconds - why can't I do the damage I need to do? Suffice to say, he got away fine, when I feel annoyed because I feel that's a wasted chance for a kill.

I just never seem to be able to land enough damage.

Can anyone give me some advice? I'm a level 53 Mesmer.

#2 Lordkrall

Lordkrall

    Legion Commander

  • Members
  • 5337 posts
  • Location:Sweden
  • Profession:Warrior
  • Server:Aurora Glade

Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:29 AM

Cripple, daze, stun and immobilize are your friends.
You must stop him from moving so that you can actually hit him with the damaging skills.

#3 Karetan

Karetan

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 31 posts

Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:32 AM

View PostLordkrall, on 11 October 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

Cripple, daze, stun and immobilize are your friends.
You must stop him from moving so that you can actually hit him with the damaging skills.
I did, though. I used illusionary leap to stop him, then while that was on cooldown I used magic bullet. I even knocked him off course a bit with illusionary wave. It just wasn't enough time to reduce his health pool to zero.

I'm not saying I should always be able to win via some magic combination of skill use in PvP - what I'm saying is that in this case, when I have an enemy fleeing, and they're at half health, and I'm in range, surely I should always be able to convert that into a kill?

Edited by Karetan, 11 October 2012 - 08:33 AM.


#4 Sinnacle

Sinnacle

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 236 posts
  • Guild Tag:[GH]
  • Server:Ehmry Bay

Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:58 AM

View PostKaretan, on 11 October 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

I did, though. I used illusionary leap to stop him, then while that was on cooldown I used magic bullet. I even knocked him off course a bit with illusionary wave. It just wasn't enough time to reduce his health pool to zero.

I'm not saying I should always be able to win via some magic combination of skill use in PvP - what I'm saying is that in this case, when I have an enemy fleeing, and they're at half health, and I'm in range, surely I should always be able to convert that into a kill?

Condi damage = always dying.  Condi removal = reapply with zerker and cripple to slow to allow illusion to catch back up so you can F2 and apply confusion which everytime he pops any of his get away toys he takes damage.  Also depends on weapon set sword,pistol and gs is doable but I think sword/pistol and whatever else you want and focus are the best tools to keep people from leaving the scene.  If I am running those weapon sets then I usually cant catch thieves and rangers when they put up that redish fire spell.  

magic bullet, blink, ileap, temporal curtain, cripple if you have greatsword in there are great tools to catch people you can also trait blink to 1200 range.  If your really just focused on getting people from running away you probably want to add some of those tools in there.

#5 Offski

Offski

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 23 posts
  • Location:London
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:55 AM

I am a bit surprised that you cannot kill people, seeing as how mesmers even in soldier's gear are very effective in spvp at taking down not one but two opposing players.

Are you level 80?  If not you will find it tough.  Are you in good gear?  If not again it will be tough.

I generally open with GS berserker to slow them, then use other attacks until they are on cd.  I then swap to sceptre/pistol after using decoy to confuse them.  Then i stun them, get my duelist out, then number 3 skill as they run (by this time they are usually trying to escape).  I switch back to GS and berserker again, I do not use number 2 skill again unless one/two of my phants are down and finish them off with number 1 skill on GS.

Always remember your main source of damage is phants.  My preference is to not use the condition build as I don't have time in wvw I prefer direct damage, power and crit.  Remember to slow someone the berserker is your friend it cripples.  As someone mentionned before, blink is also a great gap closer.  As is rune of centaur I use my mirror heal as a swiftness boost, provides permanent swiftness with a few points in chaos tree for boon duration.

#6 InterSlayer

InterSlayer

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 77 posts
  • Guild Tag:[SP]
  • Server:Isle of Janthir

Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:26 PM

Yeah get to 80 and rares. Otherwise you're at best a supply monkey, or a meat shield fodder.

If you're really adamant on playing, just go support and help with dispels, snares, knockdowns (temporal curtain), etc. Help people around you land the actual kills. Just make sure you tag some damage in for credit.

Edited by InterSlayer, 11 October 2012 - 01:27 PM.


#7 timmyf

timmyf

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 247 posts
  • Location:Atlanta, GA
  • Guild Tag:[MEGA]
  • Server:Sanctum of Rall

Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:31 PM

I killed a lot of people with an arrow cart from a keep. That's my favorite way of playing WvW as a Mesmer.

#8 chase128

chase128

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 311 posts

Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:40 PM

Guildie of mine runs full berserker and uses a greatsword.  He melts people.


He made this video about his build for some other people in our guild that have Mesmer alts.



#9 Ikelos

Ikelos

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 109 posts
  • Guild Tag:[DD]
  • Server:Maguuma

Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:53 PM

Yeah, I've had this problem sometimes too. With the Mesmer not being very fast, once a few of your skills are on cooldown, someone determined to get away has a pretty good chance of getting away.

WvW is one of the few instances where I'd say a glass-cannon Mesmer would be the most viable solution. Mesmer's have no sustained chasing ability without Centaur runes, so if you can't kill them by the time your control abilities are spent, they have a decent chance of getting away especially if they're tanky (or a Thief...).

#10 RandolfRa

RandolfRa

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 375 posts
  • Profession:Mesmer
  • Guild Tag:[Song]
  • Server:Gandara

Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:56 PM

No, you can't always catch them even if they are on half health. A lot of people in wvW spec heavily on surviability and stability and are thus quite difficult to catch on any profession. Mesmer can still be fairly good at it. Personally I run GS and sword + pistol which gives lots of skills to snare enemies. I also bring signet of domination and blink. Blink is especially useful as it allows more effective use of ileap. I have also recently tried the human elite skill Reaper of Grenth that chills and poisons nearby foes. It's pretty fun skill in the smaller fights.

View Posttimmyf, on 11 October 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

I killed a lot of people with an arrow cart from a keep. That's my favorite way of playing WvW as a Mesmer.
Exact. Though, I prefer cannon. Cannon is my favorite way of playing Guild Wars 2.

Edited by RandolfRa, 11 October 2012 - 07:01 PM.


#11 The Servant

The Servant

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 169 posts
  • Profession:Mesmer

Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:15 AM

View PostKaretan, on 11 October 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

Can anyone give me some advice? I'm a level 53 Mesmer.

1. Level up and upgrade equip. lvl53 is playable but it's not lvl80 exotic.

2. Go full offense. 30/30/0/0/10. Play like a butterfly.

3. Get Runes of the Centaur (when you level)


In my opinion mesmer utility in zergs is overrated, as well as the entire profession in WvW. Everyone talks of Portals because they've seen 1 Portal trick in the entire week. Guilds that are organized enough to do "portal bombing" properly are organized enough to sweep the enemy zerg (that didn't AoE portal mark) even without the portal. And Keep portal only works when enemy didn't check for mesmers inside, your server has people who can jump in, and the mesmer itself is willing to wait that long a time until everything gets ready. The entire Mesmer profession thrives on ignorance of other players, not on inherent strength. Because of this, and because of current whining, mesmer will be more and more nerfed, while players will know more and more about the game and how things works. Which means that over time mesmer will become exponentially weaker and weaker. It will still be good 1 on 1 profession though.

Other skills such as Feedback are strong, but also overrated (speaking generally here). WvW is not won, and loot is not gained, when few enemies stop attacking for a few sec.

I'm not even going to talk about Phantasms. Even iBerserker, a pretty good phantasm, will in entire recharge do damage equal to just one Engineer grenade - the one that can be thrown repeatedly every second (someone correct me on this one if I'm wrong).

#12 Sinnacle

Sinnacle

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 236 posts
  • Guild Tag:[GH]
  • Server:Ehmry Bay

Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:40 AM

View PostThe Josip, on 12 October 2012 - 01:15 AM, said:

1. Level up and upgrade equip. lvl53 is playable but it's not lvl80 exotic.

2. Go full offense. 30/30/0/0/10. Play like a butterfly.

3. Get Runes of the Centaur (when you level)


In my opinion mesmer utility in zergs is overrated, as well as the entire profession in WvW. Everyone talks of Portals because they've seen 1 Portal trick in the entire week. Guilds that are organized enough to do "portal bombing" properly are organized enough to sweep the enemy zerg (that didn't AoE portal mark) even without the portal. And Keep portal only works when enemy didn't check for mesmers inside, your server has people who can jump in, and the mesmer itself is willing to wait that long a time until everything gets ready. The entire Mesmer profession thrives on ignorance of other players, not on inherent strength. Because of this, and because of current whining, mesmer will be more and more nerfed, while players will know more and more about the game and how things works. Which means that over time mesmer will become exponentially weaker and weaker. It will still be good 1 on 1 profession though.

Other skills such as Feedback are strong, but also overrated (speaking generally here). WvW is not won, and loot is not gained, when few enemies stop attacking for a few sec.

I'm not even going to talk about Phantasms. Even iBerserker, a pretty good phantasm, will in entire recharge do damage equal to just one Engineer grenade - the one that can be thrown repeatedly every second (someone correct me on this one if I'm wrong).

Phantasms arent just about damage either depends on how you are specced.  Applies bleeds my berzerker gets a good 4 everytime.  Can apply confusion, or disruption if I like also cripples.  Its not all about max damage.

#13 LavaSquid

LavaSquid

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 452 posts
  • Location:Singapore
  • Profession:Mesmer
  • Guild Tag:[----]
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:56 AM

Pull enemies off the wall/cliff, knock enemies off the wall/cliff :)

#14 Dank

Dank

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 254 posts
  • Location:Devonas Rest
  • Guild Tag:[TRx]

Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:57 AM

I don't know how you can not kill anyone in WvW tbh.. No runner gets away from me except for thieves, there is nothing you can do when a thief decides he is going to run away especially when he is built for multiple speed boosts(signet, swift on roll, faster while stealthed) and has a shortbow. Once in awhile maybe a warrior who has high swift stack and keeps using jumping moves will get away as well..

For the rest, good use of zerker, blink and well timed illusionary waves (knock them opposite direction or to the side of the direction they are trying to run to throw them off course, if you knock them the way they are going you are just putting more distance between you and them since the knockdown part is negligible. )  It helps immensely in this situation of course if you are using sword/pistol as your second set with 2 cc's. You could also equip the signet that stuns (don't even know the name because I don't use it), if this is a big issue for you. The chill from a staff chaos storm is another small help. Also using rune of the centaur to keep yourself swifted of course is valuable in chasing people down.

Oh, forgot to mention because I haven't used focus in a long time since I don't really like it, but into the void is really hated by people who are trying to run away. :)

Edited by Dank, 12 October 2012 - 05:58 AM.


#15 LavaSquid

LavaSquid

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 452 posts
  • Location:Singapore
  • Profession:Mesmer
  • Guild Tag:[----]
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:39 AM

View PostDank, on 12 October 2012 - 05:57 AM, said:

You could also equip the signet that stuns (don't even know the name because I don't use it)

I will do you a favor, Signet of Domination :D

#16 The Servant

The Servant

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 169 posts
  • Profession:Mesmer

Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:43 PM

View PostSinnacle, on 12 October 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

Phantasms arent just about damage either depends on how you are specced.  Applies bleeds my berzerker gets a good 4 everytime.  Can apply confusion, or disruption if I like also cripples.  Its not all about max damage.

You say it's not all about damage and then mention bleed and confusion which is just that - damage. Except, pitiful. Few seconds of cripple are also insignificant in a pitched zerg battle and besides other classes have much more cripple/chill/immobilize/whatever than a mesmer. I don't know what you meant by "disruption" means as phantasm dies instantly so it doesn't really disrupt anything or anyone in a zerg battle.

I always liked mesmer the most, but in GW2 WvW let's face it, it's overrated because of few tricks everyone keeps hearing over and over. Mesmer has its moments but they are few, and on a consistent basis it's rather weak IMHO. These few moments have become urban myth about some kind of great uber WvW mesmer class.

I say this because I see mesmer getting more and more nerfs while nothing is being done addressing issues and improving the class where it needs improvement. It seems a one-way street for a mesmer, much like in GW1. The way of a dodo. And then in several years they will buff the class again for marketing purposes. When they finally buffed PvE mesmer in GW1 I knew we're going to get a mesmer in GW2. They just couldn't afford no one playing a mesmer in GW1, except few old-school PvPers from Prophecy days.

#17 Sinnacle

Sinnacle

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 236 posts
  • Guild Tag:[GH]
  • Server:Ehmry Bay

Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:57 PM

View PostThe Josip, on 12 October 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

You say it's not all about damage and then mention bleed and confusion which is just that - damage. Except, pitiful. Few seconds of cripple are also insignificant in a pitched zerg battle and besides other classes have much more cripple/chill/immobilize/whatever than a mesmer. I don't know what you meant by "disruption" means as phantasm dies instantly so it doesn't really disrupt anything or anyone in a zerg battle.

I always liked mesmer the most, but in GW2 WvW let's face it, it's overrated because of few tricks everyone keeps hearing over and over. Mesmer has its moments but they are few, and on a consistent basis it's rather weak IMHO. These few moments have become urban myth about some kind of great uber WvW mesmer class.

I say this because I see mesmer getting more and more nerfs while nothing is being done addressing issues and improving the class where it needs improvement. It seems a one-way street for a mesmer, much like in GW1. The way of a dodo. And then in several years they will buff the class again for marketing purposes. When they finally buffed PvE mesmer in GW1 I knew we're going to get a mesmer in GW2. They just couldn't afford no one playing a mesmer in GW1, except few old-school PvPers from Prophecy days.

Disruption doesnt have to be a phantasm you know there is a utility called mirror images and decoy that give you 3 clone opener shatter for disruption open your phantasm.  Have you even played mesmer more than 1 week?    Clones are meant to be used as distraction or fodder for conditions or mind wrack.  I can cast zerker in crowd and he always gets his opening 9/10 times.  

Uhh you referred to a freaking grenade from engineer and compared it to bezerker.  Therefore I said clones and phantasms arent just about max damage.  Thats what I was referring to.  I can hit for 4.5-5k with confusion so they wont be throwing to many grenades till they remove.  Like i said phantasm offer options not just in the way of max damage but multiple sources of damage that add up.  See what I was getting at?  

A few seconds of cripple is still cripple which still gives you the advantage even if it is 2 secs.  

Why are you comparing every single profession to the mesmer like they are one and saying they can beat it at all these different things? Of course if you cherry pick the best aspects of every class. Like hey The ranger can out range a mesmer and a thief is faster and more mobile with better stealth a Warrior has more more toughness well yea sherlock.  You picked the obvious stuff and applied it to your argument you have to do better than that.

It sounds like your upset calling the mesmer as overhyped is dumb sounds like your some kind of hater of people that play the class. Not sure what your deal is actually but you sound dare I say spiteful towards mesmers.  Which is actually really silly tbh.  

You are the minority most people will tell you that Mes in WvW is extremely important if you have enough.  You mentioned feedback well if its only 1 mes throwing feedback then yea its not great but you get 10 laying them down all over the zerg and that zerg will definitely have to readjust there plans.  Mes in WvW is a specialist basically 1 mes doesnt change a zergvzerg fight but neither does any other class  

The portal trick is just a exploit of the rendering issues not a design mechanic of the mesmer or how its played.  That doesnt make the mesmer some super special profession everyone with common sense that isnt lazy and did any kind of research knows its the rendering that causes portal bomb to work like it does.  Fix rendering issues then portal bomb goes away and you can be happy with whatever class you play.

Edited by Sinnacle, 12 October 2012 - 01:01 PM.


#18 The Servant

The Servant

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 169 posts
  • Profession:Mesmer

Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:09 PM

You can't be serious. You're going to use Mirror Images and shatter these 2 clones in a zerg fight? For what? About as much damage as 1 Engineer grenade he can spam every second, while your Mirror Images will recharge in around 40 seconds? Yes iBerserker always gets his opening, but you're not reading what I say: you do damage and then he instantly dies and you wait for recharge. Meanwhile an Engineer is throwing one grenade after the other, second after second, doing that much damage and at a longer distance.

Quote

I can hit for 4.5-5k with confusion so they wont be throwing to many grenades till they remove

They will be throwing just as many grenades and will ignore confusion, have you even seen how much dmg confusion does? How many confusion stacks do you even intend to inflict and with what?

Quote

Like i said phantasm offer options not just in the way of max damage but multiple sources of damage that add up.  See what I was getting at?

I don't, because multiple sources of damage are still damage, and 2+2+2=6 and is lower than a single 8.

Quote

A few seconds of cripple is still cripple which still gives you the advantage even if it is 2 secs.

That's true, and 2+2+2+0.2 is 6.2 and still lower than a single 8.

Quote

Why are you comparing every single profession to the mesmer like they are one and saying they can beat it at all these different things? Of course if you cherry pick the best aspects of every class. Like hey The ranger can out range a mesmer and a thief is faster and more mobile with better stealth a Warrior has more more toughness well yea sherlock.  You picked the obvious stuff and applied it to your argument you have to do better than that.

You're arguing with yourself. I was speaking globally the entire time and you were typing stuff such as "I do 2-sec cripple". As if no one else can do cripple.

Quote

It sounds like your upset calling the mesmer as overhyped is dumb sounds like your some kind of hater of people that play the class. Not sure what your deal is actually but you sound dare I say spiteful towards mesmers.  Which is actually really silly tbh.

You're the one being silly and attacking the person instead of arguments. I play mesmer most of the time, which doesn't mean I'm incapable of unbiased view.

Quote

You mentioned feedback well if its only 1 mes throwing feedback then yea its not great but you get 10 laying them down all over the zerg and that zerg will definitely have to readjust there plans.  Mes in WvW is a specialist basically 1 mes doesnt change a zergvzerg fight but neither does any other class

I see. So you need 10 mesmers coordinating on Teamspeak for a total result worse than 10 random Engineers throwing bombs left and right?

What are you going to do, cast these 10 Feedbacks at the same time, after which enemy zerg will just move slightly for a few sec and then for next 35 seconds 10 people are half-useless, or are you going to chain 10 Feedbacks one after the other, which means few enemies will have to move for few sec to get out of the bubble and reposition? I used Feedback here and there and never did I see any mythical big numbers, not even when 30 enemies were bunched up near a bridge or something narrow. Yes, 10 feedbacks can buy you several seconds of time, but several seconds of zerg time does not win battles, and does not give badges, and loot is extremely important especially at this point, because more loot equals better equipment.

Now, let's picture this. 10 Engineers instead of 10 Mesmers. And instead of targetting spot X with a Feedback, these Engineers target spot X with a grenade, in a 3-2-1 spike. The result? Dead people.

Do you know for how long dead people don't fight? A pretty long time compared to few seconds of Feedback.

#19 Humungous

Humungous

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 109 posts

Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:55 PM

@OP

First off, someone at half health and in range is far from guaranteed. As a mesmer in full knight's, I expect to get away from that situation most all of the time.

And you don't need glass cannon to bring people down once you're 80. I down people all the time with a balanced build. Temporal curtain is huge for that. Set it down in front of them and void when they cross it. Warden takes some getting used to, as it's much less fire 'n' forget than duelist.

It's also so satisfying to have a glass thief nail me for obscene damage, then fail to do that last 33% before I can grind him down from full :)

@Josip

I can't say that I agree with your assessment of mesmers in WvW. Maybe the engineer is better, but otherwise, I feel like the most powerful class in the game. Yeah, we're not all that in keep fights (unless the enemy zerg isn't used to mesmers, in which case our reflections and AOE pull can be ridiculously good), but we're freakin' awesome everywhere else. I'm not in a coordinated guild. It's almost always me, my bro and a PUG. I can only imagine how much more ridiculous our class would be if I had a team coordinating around portal, time warp and mass invisibility.

#20 Lastchime

Lastchime

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 278 posts

Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:58 PM

You don't, most people kill themselves quite efficiently when helped along by 10 or so stacks of confusion and feedback bubbles.

#21 The Servant

The Servant

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 169 posts
  • Profession:Mesmer

Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:38 PM

View PostLastchime, on 12 October 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

You don't, most people kill themselves quite efficiently when helped along by 10 or so stacks of confusion and feedback bubbles.

Who are these "most people" and where do I find them? A natural instinct response of even an average player is to pull back once low on hp. So how do you kill him with confusion, do you rush into the middle of enemy zerg and chase the confused fellow? Same with Feedback. Do you have a bunch of loot bags under your feet after Feedback duration ends, because you're probably the only one on the entire forum who has a single loot bag under feet after Feedback.

#22 Lastchime

Lastchime

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 278 posts

Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:29 PM

Sorry I didn't mean it to sound like an IWIN button, but it is a very effective tactic, they may require a little more prompting to do it, such as a swap to leap > frenzy or warlock, mind wrack (good after a stack of cry of frustration if you can fuel it quickly), just keep bombing clones usualy you can prompt some reaction in that tight window (traits can help extend the window), better yet is to pre-empt their action so they spike themselves but it takes some practice and knowledge of other class mechanics, like mesmer always has had to have some rudimentary knowledge of to be effective.

  I'll tell you this though, rangers and warriors are the gravy train for confusion based damage.

  If you really want to kill people in WvW avoid the zerg and patrol the map edges or the ramps away from main conflicts, but this really is an innefficient use of your time in WvW, much better to complete events.

  If you really feel like playing around with zergs either pick out of the flank (portal/blink come in handy here), or go support heavy with a little bit of pressure (traited glamours), I don't really think too many players actually mass slaughter zergs on their own though.

#23 Humungous

Humungous

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 109 posts

Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:43 PM

View PostThe Josip, on 12 October 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

Who are these "most people" and where do I find them? A natural instinct response of even an average player is to pull back once low on hp. So how do you kill him with confusion, do you rush into the middle of enemy zerg and chase the confused fellow? Same with Feedback. Do you have a bunch of loot bags under your feet after Feedback duration ends, because you're probably the only one on the entire forum who has a single loot bag under feet after Feedback.

Now now, don't respond to exaggeration with exaggeration ;) Feedback rarely nets a kill, but there is always that one dude who is so eager to finish someone that he misses his HP dropping. He's rare, and he learns, so he'll be even more rare in a month, but he's still out there.

I totally agree that the crazy feedback numbers of old are gone for good, but it's still awesome. Most often, I find it is used to provide your zerg the opening to rush in under the bubble. So rather than using it to trap bad guys, use it to create openings for your short-ranged zerg-busters.

#24 The Servant

The Servant

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 169 posts
  • Profession:Mesmer

Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:52 PM

It wasn't an exaggeration. I don't remember a single time I killed anyone during or slightly after Feedback. No causality.


And when you mention "zerg going under the bubble in a rush etc etc".. I can safely say without exaggeration that 99,9% of people on this forum never saw this. We can talk about theoretical well-executed nicely organized guilds and ideal situations, but at the end of a month if each player here analyzed practical average value of Feedback, it would be as "high" as I said.

This reminds me of some discussions from GW1 where some mesmers were trying to justify poor set of skills available in PvE by saying how this and that is good, how interrupts help here and there etc etc.. And the hard cold truth is that eles and others would do 3-2-1-RiP while Mesmers would have to dance around for half a minute "helping with utility". Sadly, GW2 is just the same if not worse for a mesmer, it's just that WvWers didn't realize it yet. PvErs did, and WvW is using the same AoE concept (unlike sPvP). Mesmer has bloated reputation due to Portal and that's it. If it wasn't for urban legends regarding Portal, Mesmer would be considered one of the weakest WvW classes (if not the weakest). But because once a month someone sees Portal work properly (and most not even then), Mesmer has this godly status in WvW.

And it's sad because it was supposed to be my main profession and I've invested a lot into it. And to this very day I tried finding a way around the limitations of a class but there are none. You can talk about Shatter builds but they have no place in WvW. You can talk about Phantasm builds but they have no place in WvW. You can talk about utilities which are either weak in practice or extremely situational and thus average value is close to zero in your average game. Yes, I know, everyone is convinced how uber mesmers are when it comes to this. Again, I consider it urban legend, and a set of tricks that work for 3 days until everyone realizes what it's about, adapts, and counters easily. It's like that with mesmer clones, with portal, with feedback..

#25 Lastchime

Lastchime

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 278 posts

Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:08 PM

Well there's always forum PvP, which we can excel at.

#26 Sinnacle

Sinnacle

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 236 posts
  • Guild Tag:[GH]
  • Server:Ehmry Bay

Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:19 PM

View PostThe Josip, on 12 October 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

It wasn't an exaggeration. I don't remember a single time I killed anyone during or slightly after Feedback. No causality.


And when you mention "zerg going under the bubble in a rush etc etc".. I can safely say without exaggeration that 99,9% of people on this forum never saw this. We can talk about theoretical well-executed nicely organized guilds and ideal situations, but at the end of a month if each player here analyzed practical average value of Feedback, it would be as "high" as I said.

This reminds me of some discussions from GW1 where some mesmers were trying to justify poor set of skills available in PvE by saying how this and that is good, how interrupts help here and there etc etc.. And the hard cold truth is that eles and others would do 3-2-1-RiP while Mesmers would have to dance around for half a minute "helping with utility". Sadly, GW2 is just the same if not worse for a mesmer, it's just that WvWers didn't realize it yet. PvErs did, and WvW is using the same AoE concept (unlike sPvP). Mesmer has bloated reputation due to Portal and that's it. If it wasn't for urban legends regarding Portal, Mesmer would be considered one of the weakest WvW classes (if not the weakest). But because once a month someone sees Portal work properly (and most not even then), Mesmer has this godly status in WvW.

And it's sad because it was supposed to be my main profession and I've invested a lot into it. And to this very day I tried finding a way around the limitations of a class but there are none. You can talk about Shatter builds but they have no place in WvW. You can talk about Phantasm builds but they have no place in WvW. You can talk about utilities which are either weak in practice or extremely situational and thus average value is close to zero in your average game. Yes, I know, everyone is convinced how uber mesmers are when it comes to this. Again, I consider it urban legend, and a set of tricks that work for 3 days until everyone realizes what it's about, adapts, and counters easily. It's like that with mesmer clones, with portal, with feedback..

Anyway Mr Strawman.  You need to go play a elementalist and Meteor storm in WvW since your focus at least for this part of the arguement is Zerg v Zerg fights.  

So if that is your main concern then that should be your profession.   If you play mesmer most of the time then you know we are lacking in AOE o.O.  Thats like common knowledge.

Edited by Sinnacle, 12 October 2012 - 10:20 PM.


#27 The Servant

The Servant

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 169 posts
  • Profession:Mesmer

Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:21 PM

What? You did the strawman and now you're trying to accuse me of one? Get real. Go back to my first post in this thread. You're arguing with yourself. You have failed to counterargument a single line of mine and now come with ad hominem attack while at the same time admiting "mesmer is not good at big fights".

Focus of WvW are big fights. This is not "focus of my argument", it's what WvW is. Unless you're doing the nightcapping you'll need more than 3 people to take a Tower, Keep, Orbs; basically everything that generates points. And undefended Camps any profession can take so that's not the issue (although some are better than others at it).

You're also contradicting yourself with your "arguments". You talk about 10 Feedbacks and then how my focus is big battles in which mesmer isn't good? Which you finally admitted. Where did you get 10 feedbacks (10 mesmers) in small-scale battle? Looks like a decently sized group already, it has 10 mesmers plus whatever else.

And seriously now, tell me honestly, when have you seen 10 mesmers in a single mob on Ehmry Bay? I don't know, maybe I was talking about normal sized WvW battles and you were talking about 3v3 - for all I know it could be an average zerg size on Ehmry Bay.

#28 Weirdkitten

Weirdkitten

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 23 posts
  • Guild Tag:[spaz]
  • Server:Seafarer’s Rest

Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:00 AM

View PostThe Josip, on 12 October 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

They will be throwing just as many grenades and will ignore confusion, have you even seen how much dmg confusion does? How many confusion stacks do you even intend to inflict and with what?

I don't think you realise how easy it is to stack confusion or how much damage it does with high condition damage. A properly speced and geared confusion mesmer will hit for 300-350 per stack, and stack 10-15 in a couple of seconds. You really dont want to spam anything at that point.

#29 RecentlyTaken

RecentlyTaken

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 88 posts
  • Location:over here
  • Guild Tag:[sF]
  • Server:Stormbluff Isle

Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:07 AM

In a situations where I want to get away as a warrior, a class based around condition damage doesn't really have much hope. 2 warhorn skills that convert conditions into buffs, mending which removes 2 conditions, shake it off removes 2 conditions (with soldier runes) and fear me removes 1.

A gs warrior also has 2 extra mobility escapes as well. Slow, steady damage in the form of conditions actually doesn't work that well against warrior, you need spike/burst damage (which is why warrior struggles with thief - well everyone does)

#30 Dank

Dank

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 254 posts
  • Location:Devonas Rest
  • Guild Tag:[TRx]

Posted 13 October 2012 - 04:20 AM

@ The Josip

I'm sorry but in big zerg battles I regularly see huge crits flying around left and right with my feedbacks.. I don't know, maybe I just place them better then you.. But it doesn't matter even if they know what it is, and stop firing... If a feedback is dropped on someone and they are in the middle of a big channeled skill (rapid fire, killshot, QZ shortbow) to name a few devastating ones, then they already did a big burst to themselves in a short time.

Also I'm still surprised how many people will zone out autoattacking a gate from range even when I drop a feedback in front of them.

Yes I regularly leave a TRAIL of bags (not a pile around my feet) after using a well placed feedback.. Because I immediately follow up very aggressively. In my experience if I drop a feedback on a tight grouped zerg , then charge at them while casting mirror blade and zerker, then when close illusionary wave, then switching to my staff to drop a (well placed) chaos storm. The Zerg scatters EVERY single time. Which then allows my team to follow up my advance and start picking people off.

The first instinct of anyone who takes a big burst is to immediately retreat, others see them retreating and the enemy advancing, so they retreat also.. You can't just drop a randomly placed feedback and sit there and look at pretty numbers and spam F to collect loot. It just doesn't work like that, but FOLLOW UP on your feedback properly and you will see very positive results.

Picking out the right areas of density in the zerg to throw those mirror blades and zerkers is also important, as well as being able to identify who is at critical health levels that you may be able to finish quickly. Another instinct of the herd is to run when they see teamates being downed.

Edited by Dank, 13 October 2012 - 04:26 AM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users