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Necro "tank" build (please critique)

tank survival necro build

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#1 Omnomicron

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:01 PM

Good afternoon!

I would like some critiquing of my build/playstyle -

http://gw2.luna-atra...pu05l5p5uh5hghm

The main purposes I am going for with this build are survivability, healing, and condition support.  I've been a tank in every MMO I have ever played, and can't seem to shake the fascination (originally started a necro in a bid to move to dps, but found out that "tanking" was feasible and jumped back on the wagon -- my girlfriend apparently saw this coming).

My gear is a half cleric and half carrion, stat-wise.  In encounters with three or fewer enemies, I tend to stick with dagger/focus for more focused (punny!) combat.  Once the enemies are over three in count, I generally will switch over to staff and dish out AOE goodness.

During tough encounters, my general MO is to dish out as much damage as possible in Lich Form, popping out when it expires or when my health is under half.  After which I'll top off my health and go with dagger/focus or staff depending on the conditions listed above (will favor staff for group healing/condition removal if there are many allies around, however).  Wells are deployed liberally and often.  

If things get sticky, or all of my AOE skills are on CD, I'll pop into DS, AOE siphon, use the bleed/fear, and wait in DS until my healing Well is off CD or my life force falls below ~25% (like to keep some life force in reserve for those OH SH*T moments).

Also, in group situations, my high +heal seems to help a lot when laying down the healing Well and regen Mark.

So far, I am pretty happy with the profession, but would like to know if there's anything that could use any tightening up.  Thanks!

Edited by Omnomicron, 11 October 2012 - 06:06 PM.


#2 takarazuka

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:14 PM

Your utility skills in the build are Shadow Fiend, Signet of Spite, and Signet of Undeath, but you have all traits centered around wells.  Did you, perhaps, forget to change the utility skills to be wells?  Which wells are you using... all 3 or only certain ones?

Why are you using Carrion gear?  Your weapon choices and wells do not have any conditions on them so condition damage is useless to you.  The only condition you would have is Staff#2, but that's nothing to build a gear set around at all.  You build around your primary trait/skill/weapon setup.  With the setup you have, Knight + Cleric would be a better choice with power, precision, toughness, and healing.   Knight's gear also adds to the T3 minor trait for 5% toughness in to power so there is an added benefit there.

I would recommend changing out focus for warhorn.  The regen on Focus#4 is really low and doesn't do much.  Whereas Warhorn#5 does damage every 1s for 10s and procs vampiric on each hit.  The bouncing ability of the focus also is random and may not ever hit you or your allies so it's very sporadic if it does any good.

Would also consider changing Spite T1 Major trait to II (if you keep focus) or V for retaliation on Death Shroud activation.

Edited by takarazuka, 11 October 2012 - 06:23 PM.

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#3 BeyondThyGrave

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:34 PM

I'm curious how much aggro you pull in a group and how much damage you do with dagger... I like tank support builds but having such low damage seems to make it harder to tank in a group. Tried it on a guardian and I almost never pulled aggro, so I ended up putting more damage in and taking out some defence.

Signet of spite isn't much for support aspect since your team will be putting on conditions as well. Other possible choices-Corrosive posoin cloud,well of darkness,well of power,well of suffering, and spectral wall.

Edited by BeyondThyGrave, 11 October 2012 - 07:40 PM.


#4 takarazuka

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:40 PM

View PostBeyondThyGrave, on 11 October 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

I'm curious how much aggro you pull in a group and how much damage you do with dagger... I like tank support builds but having such low damage seems to make it harder to tank in a group. Tried it on a guardian and I almost never pulled aggro, so I ended up putting more damage in and taking out some defence.

His overall damage will be pretty low since this is a tank setup for survivability... no points in Curses or Spite for increased power/condition or offensive traits.  His abilities are more centered around sustaining himself and providing support for his group through defense.  

Don't forget that you don't really "tank" in this game.... you can have a lot of self-defense or group defense to help absorb damage or provide healing and buffs/debuffs to your group.  It isn't about drawing aggro and keeping the attention of the boss off someone else.  It is about helping others survive when the boss is going after them.  This is a decent build for helping out with healing.

Edited by takarazuka, 11 October 2012 - 07:41 PM.

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#5 BeyondThyGrave

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:52 PM

View Posttakarazuka, on 11 October 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

His overall damage will be pretty low since this is a tank setup for survivability... no points in Curses or Spite for increased power/condition or offensive traits.  His abilities are more centered around sustaining himself and providing support for his group through defense.  

Don't forget that you don't really "tank" in this game.... you can have a lot of self-defense or group defense to help absorb damage or provide healing and buffs/debuffs to your group.  It isn't about drawing aggro and keeping the attention of the boss off someone else.  It is about helping others survive when the boss is going after them.  This is a decent build for helping out with healing.
It isn't a bad build, just going too tanky is the problem I had when I tried it. Healing and support is great, but putting in damage turned around my group aspect with my guardian. Guess I'm still used too other games where you could pull all the aggro throughout the entire fight.

#6 takarazuka

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:55 PM

View PostBeyondThyGrave, on 11 October 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

It isn't a bad build, just going too tanky is the problem I had when I tried it. Healing and support is great, but putting in damage turned around my group aspect with my guardian. Guess I'm still used too other games where you could pull all the aggro throughout the entire fight.

Agreed, I think it is a good support build.... though I am interesting to see about those utility skills he has listed as opposed to what the actual traits are built around.  I may take a look at it later on as well and create some other support builds for PVE.

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#7 BeyondThyGrave

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:25 PM

View Posttakarazuka, on 11 October 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Agreed, I think it is a good support build.... though I am interesting to see about those utility skills he has listed as opposed to what the actual traits are built around.  I may take a look at it later on as well and create some other support builds for PVE.
Only guess I have is that he may be confusing wells for marks? Wells do provide a good support effect, specially over signet of spite.

Here's a build I created and was thinking of trying out. http://en.gw2codex.com/build/20087
I enjoy support and getting bored of my guardian, so I will try it on my conditionmancer and just create a new one if it works out well.

Edited by BeyondThyGrave, 11 October 2012 - 08:26 PM.


#8 Omnomicron

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 11:05 PM

View Posttakarazuka, on 11 October 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

Your utility skills in the build are Shadow Fiend, Signet of Spite, and Signet of Undeath, but you have all traits centered around wells.  Did you, perhaps, forget to change the utility skills to be wells?  Which wells are you using... all 3 or only certain ones?

Sorry, those were my underwater skills.  I use wells of Darkness, Power, Suffering (plus healing Well of course).

View Posttakarazuka, on 11 October 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

Why are you using Carrion gear?  Your weapon choices and wells do not have any conditions on them so condition damage is useless to you.  The only condition you would have is Staff#2, but that's nothing to build a gear set around at all.  You build around your primary trait/skill/weapon setup.  With the setup you have, Knight + Cleric would be a better choice with power, precision, toughness, and healing.   Knight's gear also adds to the T3 minor trait for 5% toughness in to power so there is an added benefit there.

That's one of the things I was wondering about.  My staff #2 and #3 appear to do condition damage, so the carrion was for those skills. I see where you're coming from with the Knight/Cleric thing, but where would I get my vitality?  That was another reason I went with Carrion, and I chose it over Valkyrie because I crit so seldom the +crit damage was not worth it.  Oh, and I mainly use trident underwater, but of course that's a minor point.

View Posttakarazuka, on 11 October 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

I would recommend changing out focus for warhorn.  The regen on Focus#4 is really low and doesn't do much.  Whereas Warhorn#5 does damage every 1s for 10s and procs vampiric on each hit.  The bouncing ability of the focus also is random and may not ever hit you or your allies so it's very sporadic if it does any good.

Also a very good point, thank you.  I had completely forgotten that vampiric would proc from that.

View Posttakarazuka, on 11 October 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

Would also consider changing Spite T1 Major trait to II (if you keep focus) or V for retaliation on Death Shroud activation.

Reason I went for III is because it generally clears those annoying single conditions like cripple when PvEing out in the world - also great when AOEing down condition-happy mobs.

Conclusion: So for now, I think I'll switch to warhorn offhand, but I'm really leery about giving up my vitality from the carrion gear...

View Posttakarazuka, on 11 October 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

His overall damage will be pretty low since this is a tank setup for survivability... no points in Curses or Spite for increased power/condition or offensive traits.  His abilities are more centered around sustaining himself and providing support for his group through defense.  

Don't forget that you don't really "tank" in this game.... you can have a lot of self-defense or group defense to help absorb damage or provide healing and buffs/debuffs to your group.  It isn't about drawing aggro and keeping the attention of the boss off someone else.  It is about helping others survive when the boss is going after them.  This is a decent build for helping out with healing.

Exactly where I was going with this build, and I don't miss the dps because I never play alone.

Edited by Omnomicron, 13 October 2012 - 11:08 PM.


#9 takarazuka

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 12:34 AM

Get the Beryl accessories for vitality, power, and crit damage.  You'll have about 35-40% crit so the crit damage is worth it in that case.  You don't need a ton of HP since our base level is already very high, but toughness adds to your armor/defense which is better for necros as a whole, especially in the build you are going for.

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