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Necro Might builds (Power & Condition)


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#1 Quillixx

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:31 PM

With the recent update to Blood is Power and granting 10 stacks of Might, I decided to look into working with Might stacking to see how effective it is with both Power and Condition builds.


MIGHT DURATION


Using the same principle around +Bleed duration stacking with 2 piece Krait, Centaur, and Affliction runes, I decided to do the same mechanic with +Might duration.  There are 3 rune sets that grant +Might duration with 2 piece bonuses.


Superior Rune of Hoelbrak

(1) +25 Power

(2) +20% Might Duration

Superior Rune of Strength

(1) +25 Power

(2) +20% Might Duration

Superior Rune of Fire

(1) +25 Power

(2) +20% Might Duration


With these 3 rune set two piece bonuses, Might duration is increased by a base amount of +60%.  The next method of increasing +Might duration is by placing trait points into Death Magic.  With a full 30 points in Death Magic, the effective boon duration is increased by another 30%, making might effectively last 90% longer duration.



MIGHT SOURCES



With +Might duration at 90%, I began looking at sources that granted +Might stacks.  There are 5 sources that grant +Might.


Blood is Power, 30s base recharge speed

10 stacks of Might, 12s base duration

Reaper's Might trait, Death Shroud #1 grants Might

1 stack per attack, 15s base duration

Signet Power trait, 60s base recharge speed

3 stacks of Might, 10s base duration

Superior Sigil of Battle

3 stacks of Might on weapon swap, 20s base duration

Superior Sigil of Strength

1 stack of might (30% chance on crit), 10s base duration


Unfortunately, Signet Power does not fit well with either build due several factors.  So that is one source I eventually ruled out after playing and trying to fit it in.  There wasn't enough +Might up-time to place a requirement on trait selection and 2 utility skill selections.  Other players may prefer the burst potential, but I found different choices gave greater sustained damage output.



TRAITS



With the above sources of might listed out, I started to put together a base trait build http://gw2skills.net...BJCyqjLHpOHReiA to see what was left over to work with.  All in all, there are 3 trait requirements.


10 Points in Spite to pick up Reaper's Might

20 Points in Curses to pick up Master of Corruption

20-30 Points in Death Magic to increase overall boon duration


Reaper's Might will provide a source of +Might stacking, and is a tier 1 major trait.  By far the most important trait is Master of Corruption which reduces Blood is Power's recharge by 20%, dropping it to a 24s recharge.  And finally, 20-30 points in Death Magic trait line for 20-30% boon duration.



END RESULT



Now we can look at our sources of Might and their durations after rune and trait selections.


20 Points in Death Magic

Blood is Power

10 stacks of Might, 21.6s duration, 24s recharge = 2.4s of downtime

Reaper's Might

1 stack per second (attack speed is 1s cast), 27s duration

Superior Sigil of Battle

3 stacks of might, 36s duration, 10s recharge

Superior Sigil of Strength

1 stack of might, 18s duration, 30% proc chance on crit



30 Points in Death Magic

Blood is Power with 30 points in Death Magic

10 stacks of Might, 22.8s duration, 24s recharge = 1.2s of downtime

Reaper's Might

1 stack per second (attack speed is 1s cast), 28.5s duration

Superior Sigil of Battle

3 stacks of might, 38s duration, 10s recharge

Superior Sigil of Strength

1 stack of might, 19s duration, 30% proc chance on crit


In going to the Heart of the Mists to test these builds out, I was able to sustain 23-26 stacks of might against a single target.  Using a Signet build, I was able to get over 30 stacks of Might, but it wasn't sustainable due to signet recharge durations.


20-30 points in Death Magic is not a mandatory 100% requirement.  Some players may find the downtime in Might stacking an acceptable loss in exchange for placing points in other trait line(s).  This choice, along with many others, leads to build diversity.



DAMAGE



This is one of the areas I really wish damage meters in some form were available in game.  Right now, all I can say is having an additional 700-910 Power/Condition damage while maintaining 20-26 stacks of Might, everything was dying noticeably faster than my standard power & condition builds.



VERSATILITY



I found that weapon and utility skill choices was extremely open ended.  Even going as far as choosing different weapon sets, to choosing the same main hand weapon and offhand weapon to allow the weapon swap every 10s and not change the rhythm of play.


For power builds; I found staff, axe, and dagger all put out good damage and there were enough trait points left over after the skeleton build to amp up the weapon selection(s) of your choice.  After a few hours, the power builds I found most entertaining were:


Axe / Focus + Dagger / Warhorn

http://gw2skills.net...Ouck6syYkxWkpIA

Staff + Dagger / Warhorn

http://gw2skills.net...Ouck6syYIyWkpIA



For condition builds I ended up settling on:


Staff + Scepter / Warhorn

http://gw2skills.net...Ouck6syYIyWkpIA



While I haven't tested might stacking fully (especially in a true PvE setting), I thought I'd post what I've come up with so far and see if anyone else has tried it or has any ideas from what I've posted here.  Feel free to share your thoughts and builds as I'm genuinely curious what everyone else thinks on this topic.

Edited by Quillixx, 10 December 2012 - 03:20 PM.


#2 takarazuka

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:40 PM

What rotation were you using?  I have been looking in to prolonging Might duration for as long as possible as well to beef up my power build.  Did you have one rune each on your weapons?  I don't see weapon swapping happening enough to get a large benefit from Sigil of Battle.  

As far as Reaper's Might goes.... trying to stay in DS to Life Blast just to keep Might stacks up seems inefficient in actual PVE content.  You have more and better damage from dagger and more chances for crits to proc Sigil of Strength to supplement your BiP Might stacks.

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#3 Quillixx

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:53 PM

I'd have to disagree with Sigil of Battle not being a large benefit.  Below is a quick time representation to display it graphically how it comes into play.

Each 'X' represent weapon swapping
Each '-' represents 1 second
'O' represents where the first 3 stacks from the earlier weapon swaps wear off

Fight Starts -X1----------X2----------X3----------X4------O1----X5------O2----X6

With 1 Sigil of Battle on each weapon set, you can get 3 stacks every weapon swap.  This means every 10s, and counting the one at the very start of a fight, you get 3 stacks.  At peak capacity, you can maintain 12 stacks of Might for 6s, and 9 stacks for 4s once past the 30s mark.  For shorter fights, probably not the best, but once you get it rolling, it's sustainable.


Sources of Might
10 stacks from Blood is Power
12-9 stacks from Sigil of Battle
6-8 stacks from Reaper's Might
X stacks from Sigil of Strength

The weapon swapping was pretty easy to maintain, especially since you can still weapon swap while in DS form.  While I didn't retest it, identical Sigils on the same weapon set don't stack, so going Sigil of Battle on mainhand and offhand wouldn't work.  If it did, we would be able to maintain 24-18 stacks of Might from Sigil of Battle alone.

I only entered DS to get an additional 6-8 stacks.  It was mainly used as filler towards the end of BiP recharge.

For my rotation, I was going:
Start as Dagger / Warhorn >> Start Fight with BiP >> Swap
Axe 2 > Focus 4 > Axe 1 x5 > Axe 2 > Swap
Dagger 2 > Well of Suffering > Well of Corruption > Warhorn 5 > DS > DS 1 x6-8 (weapon swap in background)
I cancel DS when BiP is active
BiP > Axe 2 > Focus 4 > Axe 1 spam > Swap
And around here is where I'll have 26 stacks of Might

This is after playing with it for a few hours, nothing major.  I could probably get more out of it once a stable rotation is in place.  I chose to lead off with Axe for the first full starting rotation with some vulnerability stacking as well.

Sigil of Strength doesn't list any internal cooldown, so I was going to test that tonight by running in and AOE bombing with Locust Swarm and Wells to see how well Sigil of Strength works in this setup.

Edited by Quillixx, 11 October 2012 - 10:00 PM.


#4 takarazuka

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:46 PM

It's looks fine in testing on golems, but have you done this in the PVE world?  While I see that it is a great way to stack might for max benefit, it's a lot of time and energy to keep up with the weapon swapping and a very strict rotation to gain the benefits of it.  By the time you reached the end of the rotation the target should be long dead.  

As you continue testing it, let us know how it works in events, dungeons, or WvW.  I would be interested to see more on this.

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#5 Donkulous

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 01:55 AM

Yeah -  this is interesting. I'd be curious to hear more about it - right now I'm low enough level that killing things it pretty quick still. Doing all those swaps and rotations - seems like stuff could be long dead before then.

#6 rd1102

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:51 PM

tested in dungeons.

build works very well.
DPS felt higher than my pure condi build. (even though iam running a hybrid of your build with more survivability)

rotation

staff - mark of blood(2) , chillbains(3) , putrid mark(4)(always use , good dmg)
don't autoattack.
every alternate set , chillbains and putrid mark will be on CD. drop 1 mark of blood , shift into DS to autoattack 2-4 times ,popout and drop another mark of blood and chillbains(cd should have cooled off) , should be time to weapon swap by this time.


scepter/dagger - grasping dead(2) , enfeebling blood(4) , deathly swarm(3)(don't use when BiP isnt up)
autoattack with scepter1 when enfeebling blood is down(likely to happen every alternate set)

BiP whenever its off cd before step3 in each set to get the bleeds transfered over.

#7 Piteous

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:07 PM

This looks interesting I would like to try it out. I am using a power build right now with Staff/Dagger/Focus.

#8 masmer

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:21 PM

That's actually a very awesome build. I'll have to test out a variation of it. Props on finding that!

#9 takarazuka

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 09:09 PM

I am thinking about modifying my power build and incorporating some more Might duration in to it.... it's been interesting reading it more and thinking about it.  I won't be able to play again until next week since I am out of town on vacation.

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#10 Drekor

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 11:07 PM

I ran a staff + scepter/dagger hybrid setup with might stacking... works pretty damn well. My biggest complaint was the 900 range on life blast and it's inconsistent damage dependent on life force. I really hope they address that, the current mechanic feels really bad.

#11 Piteous

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 10:25 AM

OK, noob question about the runes. How do I get the 6/6 stats on the runes, or at least the might?

#12 dandelions

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 02:11 PM

I think the weapon switching kind of works though.
If you are using staff or axe it would pretty much be:

Axe: use 2 and switch back to dagger/sceptre
Staff: use marks and switch back to dagger/sceptre

So you would be switching weapons often.

I'm gonna try this with my rampager gear since it has cheapo runes on it atm & the high crit will benefit might food (idk if might food works yet :3) and the might weapon sigil.

View PostPiteous, on 18 October 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

OK, noob question about the runes. How do I get the 6/6 stats on the runes, or at least the might?
Sorry I don't get what you mean.

Edited by dandelions, 18 October 2012 - 02:10 PM.


#13 takarazuka

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 02:48 PM

View PostPiteous, on 18 October 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

OK, noob question about the runes. How do I get the 6/6 stats on the runes, or at least the might?

You use 6 of the same type of rune in all of your armor.

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#14 Donkulous

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 02:57 PM

watch out for other necros with corrupt boon.

#15 Piteous

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 06:36 PM

View Posttakarazuka, on 18 October 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

You use 6 of the same type of rune in all of your armor.

cool, thanks i'll check it out tonight.

#16 Drekor

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 12:24 AM

View PostDonkulous, on 18 October 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

watch out for other necros with corrupt boon.
It's not an issue, might gets corrupted into weakness which we can then throw at one of their teammates.

#17 Brayzz

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 10:28 AM

View PostDonkulous, on 18 October 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

watch out for other necros with corrupt boon.

This is PvE, so np.

Btw I think it is better to spec more into Spite than in Death Magic. The 30% cond duration and 20% more dmg is I think better than the 10% or 20% boon duration. And you gain might at 25% HP. But I dont know the Duration for it.

http://gw2skills.net...D6x71lzieQMjlMA

edit : For this spec I would use Power-Precision-Condition set with 20 might stack omg that will hurt a lot. NEED DMG Meter tool...

Edited by Brayzz, 19 October 2012 - 01:40 PM.


#18 crises

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 08:12 PM

Well, first things first: thanks @Quillix for this amazing build, i enjoy dungeons now with my necro.

But i think i/we may have a problem or bug with the runes, or maybe im mistaken. Im using the set of runes you advise (2x Superior Rune of Hoelbrak, 2x Superior Rune of Strength and 2x Superior Rune of Fire).

That said, the problem is this: the +60% (3x20%) Might duration provided by the runes, doesn't seem to be working at all. Here is a link with screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/iPK0X

Edited by crises, 19 October 2012 - 08:15 PM.


#19 MorvianWhisperwind

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 08:50 PM

View Postcrises, on 19 October 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

Well, first things first: thanks @Quillix for this amazing build, i enjoy dungeons now with my necro.

But i think i/we may have a problem or bug with the runes, or maybe im mistaken. Im using the set of runes you advise (2x Superior Rune of Hoelbrak, 2x Superior Rune of Strength and 2x Superior Rune of Fire).

That said, the problem is this: the +60% (3x20%) Might duration provided by the runes, doesn't seem to be working at all. Here is a link with screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/iPK0X

It works. The tooltips just don't update. I tried a might stacking build in SPvP last night using this rune setup and my might boons were lasting much longer than usual.

#20 shakline

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 09:39 AM

what do you think about buff food? the chocolate omnomberry cream probides another 20% boon duration and a sick 40% mf boost while blessed by a boon :) isnt that exactly what everyone wants? :)

#21 SpelignErrir

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 11:10 PM

Why warhorn for condition builds?

#22 Brayzz

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 01:33 PM

This build is in my eye only for dungeons, for everything else other sigills and runes are better. Example for WvW or open world PvE sigil of corruption is better.

#23 Quillixx

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:16 PM

View PostSpelignErrir, on 20 October 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

Why warhorn for condition builds?

Warhorn is used for Locust Swarm.  In AOE fights, the damage from Locust Swarm can proc Might on each hit,  Running Locust Swarm alone and running into 5 mobs can add 4-6 stacks of Might from the Sigil of Battle.  Because the builds were focused on gaining Might stacks, that's why I placed Warhorn in the build over Dagger.  But, because the 'base' concept of the builds is fairly relaxed, you can switch out your weapons to be anything you want, and still achieve the same overall design while conforming to your playstyle.

#24 Quillixx

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:54 PM

View Postshakline, on 20 October 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

what do you think about buff food? the chocolate omnomberry cream probides another 20% boon duration and a sick 40% mf boost while blessed by a boon :) isnt that exactly what everyone wants? :)

This is a good point, I typically only run the Omnomberry Bars on my MF toons, but the 20% boon duration here would allow for 80-110% boon duration, depending on points spent in Death Magic, 0-30.  This would free up some or even all of the need to place points into Death Magic for those that would want to put more points in other trait lines.

#25 SpelignErrir

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 02:43 AM

View PostQuillixx, on 25 October 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Warhorn is used for Locust Swarm.  In AOE fights, the damage from Locust Swarm can proc Might on each hit,  Running Locust Swarm alone and running into 5 mobs can add 4-6 stacks of Might from the Sigil of Battle.  Because the builds were focused on gaining Might stacks, that's why I placed Warhorn in the build over Dagger.  But, because the 'base' concept of the builds is fairly relaxed, you can switch out your weapons to be anything you want, and still achieve the same overall design while conforming to your playstyle.

Hmm, I used warhorn to leech health and aoe with a power vampiric dagger MH build. I suppose the might thing makes sense though. I tried this build with a dagger instead, going to give warhorn a shot.

P.S. it works great, having all that might makes me feel happy c:

#26 EgidiuS

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:04 AM

What set of gear are you using? This build is great, but I'm really confused in what items I should use with this build.

#27 Kishijoten

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:42 AM

I am trying to figure out the same Egidius, I was looking into a hybrid of Condition/precision/toughness and Might/Toughness/precision armour, and then using a Superior sigil of strength

Edited by Kishijoten, 06 December 2012 - 08:42 AM.


#28 Quillixx

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:39 PM

Some things have changed since the start of this thread.  Here are the updates over having used the might stacking build for some time.


POWER

Build: Gear:
  • Berserker's themed gear.  All in all, the focus is on Power, Crit, and Crit Dmg.  Pieces from Fractals are higher DPS than crafted.
Sigils:
  • Battle/Bloodlust + Battle/Strength
Food:
  • Chocolate Omnomberry Cream (+20% boon duration)
Might Calculations:
  • +100% Might Duration
  • 10 stacks of Might from Blood is Power
  • 9-12 stacks of Might from weapon swapping (takes ramp up time)
  • 6-8 stacks of Might from Death Shroud #1 spam
  • 5-8 stacks of Might from crits during AOE (2-3 from single target)
  • Build can maintain an average of 27-30 Might stacks and spike upwards of 40 (This is what the BUILD can generate, the stack cap is 25, like all other stack caps)
Totals:
  • 75 Power from (1/2) set bonus of each of the 3 rune sets
  • 250 Power from 25 stacks of Bloodlust
  • 875 Power from 25 stack cap of Might
  • +1200 Power once you're at Might cap and BloodLust cap
CONDITION

Build: Gear:
  • Carrion/Rabbid style gear.  Focus is on Cond Dmg with a split focus on Power and Crit for secondary stats.  Always opt for gear with the higher Cond Dmg.  Pieces from Karma (if you're going for Rabid with Deadly Strength minor trait) and Fractals are higher DPS than crafted.
Sigils:
  • Battle/Corruption + Battle
Food:
  • Chocolate Omnomberry Cream (+20% boon duration)
  • Master Tuning Crystal (Gain Cond Dmg equal to 6% Toughness & 4% Vitality)
Might Calculations:
  • +100% Might Duration
  • 10 stacks of Might from Blood is Power
  • 9-12 stacks of Might from weapon swapping (takes ramp up time)
  • 6-8 stacks of Might from Death Shroud #1 spam
  • Build can maintain an average of 25-27 Might stacks and does not spike (This is what the BUILD can generate, the stack cap is 25, like all other stack caps)
Totals:
  • 75 Power from (1/2) set bonus of each of the 3 rune sets
  • 140 Cond Dmg from Master Tuning Crystal (will get higher with better gear)
  • 250 Cond Dmg from 25 stacks of Corruption
  • 875 Cond Dmg from 25 stack cap of Might
  • +1265 Cond Dmg once you're at Might cap and Corruption cap
With the Condition build, you can sub out the pet damage trait with Marks damage, and sub out the Flesh Wurm with another utility skill, if you like.  It is an open playstyle and does support player choice.  The builds are not set in stone.. Have fun and experiment.

Edited by Quillixx, 10 December 2012 - 03:59 PM.


#29 Cerbeius

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:03 AM

View PostQuillixx, on 06 December 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

Gear:
  • Carrion/Rabbid style gear.  Focus is on Cond Dmg with a split focus on Power and Crit for secondary stats.  Always opt for gear with the higher Cond Dmg.
Split focus, you mean 3 Carrion and 3 Rabbid pieces of gear?

#30 applepieiswin

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 05:43 PM

Looking for verification on correct rotation for condition spec.

I start with scepter/dagger and begin with
Scepter 2 - Dagger 5 - Blood is power - Dagger 4 - Scepter 3

Switch

Staff 2 - staff 3 -staff 4 - (enter DS) DS 1 x 4 - Staff 2

Switch

Scepter 2 - Scepter 3 - (Auto attack until dagger 5 is off CD) - Dagger 5 - Scepter 2 - blood is power - dagger 4 - scepter 3

Repeat




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