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#1 Fazzi00

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:57 PM

so my mesmer is pretty close to hitting 80, i've been and plan on continuing to be primarily a staff user, and have been keeping a GS on secondary just incase i need to swap for something.  however i want to to gear myself with power/toughness/condition damage. but that's not even an option for crafted gear for some dumb reason. but i did find out there is a karma vendor that offers it in Orr for something ridiculous like 42k per piece  but is that really the only way to get that stat combo? why would Anet allow every other stat combo to be craftable, but the one that a mesmer(and necro) would be able to take full advantage of be so much more of a pain in the ass to get?


what gear options are people who are primary staff going with? carrion for the vit? i like the idea of toughness though because of the 25 point chaos trait that converts 5% of it to condition damage

Edited by Fazzi00, 11 October 2012 - 09:58 PM.


#2 Bender222

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:10 PM

I think most people rare going rampagers and grabbing defensive jewelry

#3 sorting hat

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:01 PM

How about Knights for a staff/GS user? It's toughness/power/precision.

There's no jewel that's toughness-based, but I think emerald might be a good choice to use with rampager.

Edited by sorting hat, 11 October 2012 - 11:04 PM.


#4 Fazzi00

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:05 PM

View Postsorting hat, on 11 October 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

How about Knights for a staff/GS user? It's toughness/power/precision.

no condition damage makes it useless to me, i only use the GS as a back up, being primary staff user makse condition damage more ideal,  if i want burst i'll play my thief and not a GS mesmer

im really leaning towards carrion gear just for the vit, with some type of jewelry that has toughness  as one of the 3 stats, i guess that should work until i decide to actually fork over the ridiculous amounts of karam needed for gear stat combo i want

#5 Dixa

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:09 PM

condition mesmers pale to condition spec'd engineers and necros. we however have substantially better power/crit/crit damgae potential than necros and to some extent, engineers.

if this is a pvp discussion, you are in the wrong forum. for pve you can 100% do everything with a power/precision/critdmg build and do it better than a condition build.

the staff itself applies very little condition damage and neither do your clones. the warlock applies almost none unless it crits and you have sharper images. therefore your only source for conditions is chaos storm and chaos armor - neither of which are up 100% of the time and one requires you to be hit.

staff actually gets most from power/crit damge than a condition damage build. you are more likely to get 4-5 stacks of vulnerability before you see burning or a bleed applied than the other way around. however with elasticity, the staff initial hit can be quite hard and compensate for the unreliable application of condition damage

Edited by Dixa, 11 October 2012 - 11:11 PM.


#6 sorting hat

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:15 PM

View PostFazzi00, on 11 October 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

no condition damage makes it useless to me, i only use the GS as a back up, being primary staff user makse condition damage more ideal,  if i want burst i'll play my thief and not a GS mesmer

im really leaning towards carrion gear just for the vit, with some type of jewelry that has toughness  as one of the 3 stats, i guess that should work until i decide to actually fork over the ridiculous amounts of karam needed for gear stat combo i want

Oh, you are having 5% toughness to condition damage, so I thought it'd be a good idea. And even staff 2 clones can give nice critical hits for dueling 15 sharper images, but I guess it's just not your playstyle. ^^" (I personally use precision just so I can stack bleeding fast, not caring about my critical damages being ridiculous at all. XD) For me I'm planning to get the Knight set and use undead rune for extra 5% toughness -> con. dmg. Not sure how it'll turn out though. :P (not there yet, so just a thought, might not work as I hoped)

Anyway, if you're playing dungeon, why not try the rabid set? Unless wiki is lying to me, you can get rabid set from 4 dungeons. I'm not sure if tokens are easier to farm than karma though. ^^" (rabid: condition dmg, precision, toughness).

Dixa, good suggestion, but that's if we want to use damage output to decide our playstyle mainly. And berserker set doesn't suit staff as main weapon very much me think? OP uses a GS, yes, but only as backup.

Edited by sorting hat, 11 October 2012 - 11:21 PM.


#7 Fazzi00

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:15 PM

no im not referring to PvP. and i have no interest in going for some glass cannon burst build with a mesmer, i have an 80 thief for when i get in the mood to burst things down(full berserker gear/divinity runes). i also have an 80 necro but i dont play it because i just dont like it. so i made a mesmer and want to go primary staff with condition damage. i've done it on my entire way to 80(well not quiet 80, but in a day or two) and its works out just fine.

but since people are more interested in telling me to do something thats opposite of what i was asking i'll just go with what i originally planned



View Postsorting hat, on 11 October 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

Oh, you are having 5% toughness to condition damage, so I thought it'd be a good idea. And even staff 2 clones can give nice critical hits for dueling 15 sharper images, but I guess it's just not your playstyle. ^^" (I personally use precision just so I can stack bleeding fast, not caring about my critical damages being ridiculous at all. XD) For me I'm planning to get the Knight set and use undead rune for extra 5% toughness -> con. dmg. Not sure how it'll turn out though. :P (not there yet)

Anyway, if you're playing dungeon, why not try the rabid set? Unless wiki is lying to me, you can get rabid set from 4 dungeons. (rabid: condition dmg, precision, toughness).

Dixa, that's if we want to use damage output to decide our playstyle only. Then there will only be very limited choices no doubt but what's the fun? :P


yea i know knights will go with the 5% toughness >condition damage, but by itself it really wont be that much, which is way i was hoping to find something with both toughness and condition damage then power, but thats karma only it seems

Edited by Fazzi00, 11 October 2012 - 11:17 PM.


#8 sorting hat

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:24 PM

View PostFazzi00, on 11 October 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

yea i know knights will go with the 5% toughness >condition damage, but by itself it really wont be that much, which is way i was hoping to find something with both toughness and condition damage then power, but thats karma only it seems

I see, so you still want power in there with toughness & con dmg. Then I guess you're right with the karma sets. :(
(Still thinks rabid is a good idea.... *puppy eyes*)

#9 Fazzi00

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:27 PM

View Postsorting hat, on 11 October 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

I see, so you still want power in there with toughness & con dmg. Then I guess you're right with the karma sets. :(
(Still thinks rabid is a good idea.... *puppy eyes*)


rabid isnt bad, but from what i know it would probably take less effort to farm the karma for the other gear than get lucky and have rabid drop. unless i buy it all from the TP, no idea what it costs, never looked it up

#10 sorting hat

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:31 PM

Huh? Drops? I meant you can farm dungeon tokens and exchange with the token vendor in LA. They might not be called rabid, but they have the same stats as rabid.
I won't suggest something that needs luck if I have to. :P

(this: http://wiki.guildwar.../Nightmare_Cowl)

#11 Artemeas

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:47 PM

Ok a few things.

Toughness is ok, but no replacement for vitality

Superior Rune of the undead, is very helpful for the build you are describing and is what I am using ucrrently on my full set of Crion gear which takes about 2 days to farm up.

The trick with condition damge is not getting high numbers on your condition damage but actually staying alive for as long as possible and stacking conditions as much as posisble, while toughness is helpful, it does not stop conditions from ticking you down, and will not keep you alive as long as vitality will, so for that reson I suggest you primarily stack vitality instead of toughness.

Superior Rune of the undead is good, and gives you the extra 5% toughness as condition damage. also relatively cheap you can get a complete set of runes for approx 55 silver.

The real trick to condition mesmer (the hero I play at level 80) is to survive, and give yourself time for the conditions to stack up and work. You dont kill things quick but you can kill multiple mobsa t the same time and you can solo champions and veterans because of the illusion mechanic. Also offhand greatsword is not very good with condtion build, I personally run illusionary persona, and therfore want ot be in next to enemies for shatter effects, and suggest on hand sword and offhand what ever you like torch is easiet to play but focus is actually mroe powerful and versatile.

#12 Fazzi00

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:04 AM

View PostArtemeas, on 11 October 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

Ok a few things.

Toughness is ok, but no replacement for vitality

Superior Rune of the undead, is very helpful for the build you are describing and is what I am using ucrrently on my full set of Crion gear which takes about 2 days to farm up.

The trick with condition damge is not getting high numbers on your condition damage but actually staying alive for as long as possible and stacking conditions as much as posisble, while toughness is helpful, it does not stop conditions from ticking you down, and will not keep you alive as long as vitality will, so for that reson I suggest you primarily stack vitality instead of toughness.

Superior Rune of the undead is good, and gives you the extra 5% toughness as condition damage. also relatively cheap you can get a complete set of runes for approx 55 silver.

The real trick to condition mesmer (the hero I play at level 80) is to survive, and give yourself time for the conditions to stack up and work. You dont kill things quick but you can kill multiple mobsa t the same time and you can solo champions and veterans because of the illusion mechanic. Also offhand greatsword is not very good with condtion build, I personally run illusionary persona, and therfore want ot be in next to enemies for shatter effects, and suggest on hand sword and offhand what ever you like torch is easiet to play but focus is actually mroe powerful and versatile.

thanks for responding without telling me to do something different than what i'm talking about. also, the rune you're referring to I've already planned on getting. i dont fully agree with you on the value of toughness compared to vitality though, sure toughness doesnt help against conditions, but it helps greatly against direct damage, which is what kills me more than anything else. null field is there to take care of conditions if its becoming a real issue, and i pretty much always run group content with a guardian and they remove conditions pretty often. i'll look into the sword/focus secondary, im not dead set on GS or anything it just happened to be what i went with whenever i upgraded my weapons, i rarely ever used it unless things got crazy and my staff illusions were on cooldown.


im pretty sure i have enough mats in the bank to craft the full carrion set right at 80 though, i never looked up the price of those runes even though i knew i was going to get them, good to know they are cheap

#13 sorting hat

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:09 AM

That being decided, if you can craft your own carrion light armor, you can also craft your own superior runes of the undead, since the undead rune is craftable by tailors. That's even better, no? :P
http://wiki.guildwar...e_of_the_Undead

#14 Fazzi00

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:27 AM

well thats good then, my tailor is my necro, i hit 80 on it 4 days after headstart, then 400 tailoring on it a few days later, then never played the character again other than to farm ore so i had no idea it could make those runes


does that rune stack with the mesmer trait that does the same thing? meaning it would be 10% toughness converted to condition damage with both the rune set and trait together?

Edited by Fazzi00, 12 October 2012 - 12:29 AM.


#15 sorting hat

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:30 AM

View PostFazzi00, on 12 October 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

does that rune stack with the mesmer trait that does the same thing? meaning it would be 10% toughness converted to condition damage with both the rune set and trait together?

I believe so, or there's no point of choosing it really. ^^"

Edited by sorting hat, 12 October 2012 - 12:32 AM.


#16 BumblebeeViper

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 03:47 PM

I currently run a Staff/GS mesmer with Rampager armor and Undead rune set.  I am using berserker weapons with bloodlust sigils.  This is for PvE mostly, but I have zero issue putting the spank down in PvP as well.  With solid play style I have very high survivability in spite of low vitality and mediocre toughness.  

I think it really depends on your desired play style.  If you are good at manipulating your opponents with your clones and especially your dodges (which spawn clones if you are spec'd properly), and constantly moving strategically (circle strafe for example) then condition/confusion focused gear works very well.  Mesmers are king of survivability without needing vitality or toughness if played well.

Couple this with strategic phantasm use and strategic shattering and you are nigh invincible,  I rarely even have to use any utility spells, and Decoy usually gets me out of every tight situation I may not have controlled well. I kill opponents VERY quickly, as fast as I do with power/precision/critdmg gear.  I've tried both with equal time spent.  I like both honestly.  Don't let all of the "power/precision/critdmg" mesmers sway you.  If you know how to mesmer well, you'll be just as effective with a condition setup.

Edited by BumblebeeViper, 12 October 2012 - 05:12 PM.


#17 boxterduke

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:55 PM

I used to use Carrion before for my staff build however I found Rampager would give better crit. So that is what I'm using most of the time with a greatsword.
I'm currently doing HotW runs so I can get the armor from there. I like the Precision, Toughness, Condition Damage stats so I can use with a staff.

#18 Naglifar

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:10 PM

I prefer power, vitality, and toughness. With the 5% tougness > condition damage trait, Arcane Tuning Crystal condition conversion, and Undead Runes...toughness starts to become much more of a dps stat too.

90% of the time in in melee with sword/focus, so the extra defensive stats go a looooong way with my playstyle. It also makes learning and running Explorable dungeons a much much more enjoyable experience.

The reason I don't care for too much crit is I do not apply any conditions via crit (only my phantasm, who has perma fury).

#19 Scyn

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:53 AM

Khilbron's gear gives prec/toughness/condition damage as well, but it's gotten insanely expensive in the last week. When I checked earlier tonight the boots were going for 23 gold. That being said, I picked up two pieces with those stats from karma vendors in Orr and bought 3 khilbron's pieces when they were still somewhat reasonable. One of the dungeon vendors has boots like that too, so that's my next mission.

With my current set up, I'm at a little over 15k hp, just about 1500 toughness and around 1200 condition damage (not including the 250 from fully stacked sigil of corruption) and 50% crit. I stack bleeds like crazy with sharper images, and feel pretty tanky. Pesky ass thieves definitely don't take me down before I have a chance to react anymore, and I can outlast most classes in a 1v1 while the conditions do the work.

PS. Toughness is applied to clones/phants, and from what I've been told, vitality isn't. It may not seem like a big deal, but when they all disappear to one decent aoe, it' get's annoying in a hurry.

Edited by Scyn, 16 October 2012 - 03:04 AM.


#20 Lemuux

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:04 AM

View PostScyn, on 16 October 2012 - 02:53 AM, said:

Khilbron's gear gives prec/toughness/condition damage as well, but it's gotten insanely expensive in the last week. When I checked earlier tonight the boots were going for 23 gold. That being said, I picked up two pieces with those stats from karma vendors in Orr and bought 3 khilbron's pieces when they were still somewhat reasonable. One of the dungeon vendors has boots like that too, so that's my next mission.

With my current set up, I'm at a little over 15k hp, just about 1500 toughness and around 1200 condition damage (not including the 250 from fully stacked sigil of corruption) and 50% crit. I stack bleeds like crazy with sharper images, and feel pretty tanky. Pesky ass thieves definitely don't take me down before I have a chance to react anymore, and I can outlast most classes in a 1v1 while the conditions do the work.

PS. Toughness is applied to clones/phants, and from what I've been told, vitality isn't. It may not seem like a big deal, but when they all disappear to one decent aoe, it' get's annoying in a hurry.


how do you tag mobs in DE in orr using condition damage? O_o

#21 Scyn

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:36 PM

View PostLemuux, on 16 October 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

how do you tag mobs in DE in orr using condition damage? O_o

Shatters. You have to be quick with them, but it's doable. You really just need to get a decent amount of damage in on the several vets that spawn for every event if you're looking to farm karma. That said, this is definitely more of a WvW build than a farming build. When I want/need to farm, I run my ele in mf gear.




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