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Knights jewels over berserker?


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#1 Spanker

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:04 AM

So I've been thinking if would it be better to have full Knights jewels over berserker ones..This of course with a full berserker armor.

Would it be worth the extra toughness over the crit?

#2 Balala

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:11 PM

Just add some vit/tough if you cant be alive without it.

Most thiefs go full attack and learn how to dodge.

#3 Reikou

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:47 PM

I personally think crit damage from the berserker gear is *way* over the top of whats necessary (maybe about 20-50% depending on what your critical strikes are at) However, I don't think toughness is really the stat to invest in, especially with the thief's low HP pool.  I would definitely consider this on something like a Mesmer or Warrior, but I would definitely prefer vitality for thief.

#4 adra12

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:58 PM

I would say if you want more vitality go with Beryl Jewely as it trades precision for Vitality (the more important defensive stat for thieves) but keeps crit damage. This would lessen your chance of a critical some but keep your critical damage and power higher overall.

#5 Effigy

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:50 PM

I use a mix of berserker, knight, and valkyrie so my stats are pretty even, except Precision is significantly higher. A lot of people like to go full berserker, but I prefer sustainabilty. I use the same set for WvW too.

EDIT: Actually, my stats are 1800+ Power & Toughness, 1200+ Toughness & Vitality, ~50% crit chance, ~80% crit damage, 2400+ armor, and 15.5k+ health with the mix I mentioned above. Works for me.

Edited by Effigy, 12 October 2012 - 10:00 PM.


#6 Balala

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:26 PM

How is that possible? Im wearing almost everything from CoF. Berserker stuff, only Noble Pants, yet.

Ive:

Power: 2289
Precision: 1962
Thoughness: 975
Vitality: 916

And i just have 54 crit chance and 84 crit damage.
10.805 hp.
2003 armor.

Theres a curve or something that scales down precision in higher numbers?
Like: 1-1000, each precision point grants 0.1%.
1000+ each point grants, 0.001%.

?


--------------------
http://wiki.guildwar.../wiki/Precision

Taking that page, with 1962 precision, my critical chance should be 93,4% ???

Quote

At level 80, the required precision to increase the chance of a critical hit by 1% is 21

Edited by Balala, 12 October 2012 - 10:36 PM.


#7 ToujouKoneko

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:09 PM

View PostBalala, on 12 October 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

--------------------
http://wiki.guildwar.../wiki/Precision

Taking that page, with 1962 precision, my critical chance should be 93,4% ???
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Don't forget that all level 80 characters have a base precision of 916 and base crit of 4%. So your increase in crit is (1962 - 916) / 21 which is 49.8, giving you your 54% crit chance.

#8 atomicmew

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:17 AM

Crits are fairly important on a PvE thief.  I would give up power before I give up crits, but not sure if it's really possible on a PvE theif.  Maybe runes of divinity/celestael if you're looking for more balance.

#9 Effigy

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 03:12 AM

I haven't crunched the numbers--I know just what I see on my character stats. This is what I'm wearing (all 80 exotic except backbrace):

Berserker's armor of Divinity x6
Berserker's dagger of Air
Berserker's dagger of Force
Berserker's shortbow of Bloodlust
Emerald/Knight's amulet
Emerald/Knight's earring x2
Beryl/Valkyrie ring x2
Cleric's backbrace (80 green personal story reward)

I plan to replace the back slot with a Guild Assassin Backpack with Beryl/Valkyrie jewel once I scrounge up some gold.

Here's a screenshot of the stats:
Attached File  gw001.jpg   324.35K   362 downloads

Edited by Effigy, 13 October 2012 - 03:23 AM.


#10 Castlehill

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:34 AM

Effigy, how come that all of your values are higher than mine, we have more or less the same level of equipment and (armor and weapon), see picture below. I could understand if e.g. your power and damage was higher but then my Toughness and Healt would be higher than yours.

As I understand it works like this, if you increase one stat e.g. Toughness via armor another stat will have to decrease since you only have 3 stats per unit (armor, wepon) and if you e.g. choose Toughness you cant also have e.g. Precision.

GW2 Exotic 2
Uploaded 14 Oct 2012 - 14:43


#11 8KresniK8

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 03:32 PM

I dont think stacking anything except power/percision/crit damage is worth it to be honest. Im running berserker gear and ruby with +2300 power +2000 percision and 100% crit damage bonus, no problems staying alive using dodge and having signet heal (12sec cd) ready when needed for fail moments. Anything that cant heal would kill you even having toughness or some extra health.

This is the build i use. http://www.guildhead...oLvmpx9MfoaMRqV

All you need is there. Huge multi target damage rotating signets for 5x might uptime, good mobility, good healing, condition remover and interrupt. Dagger storm as a defensive cooldowns is simply awesome.

#12 Red_Falcon

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:40 PM

Math:

Zerk armor gives a total of 16% crit damage (not counting orbs/runes because you can put those in a Knight set too).
Zerk weapons give a total of 10% crit damage.
Zerk Jewels give a total of 36% crit damage.

It's pretty obvious that jewels should always be Zerk on any class that goes for crit damage.

#13 Effigy

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:09 PM

View PostCastlehill, on 15 October 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

Effigy, how come that all of your values are higher than mine, we have more or less the same level of equipment and (armor and weapon), see picture below. I could understand if e.g. your power and damage was higher but then my Toughness and Healt would be higher than yours.

As I understand it works like this, if you increase one stat e.g. Toughness via armor another stat will have to decrease since you only have 3 stats per unit (armor, wepon) and if you e.g. choose Toughness you cant also have e.g. Precision.
I can't see your image.

I'm not sure why my values would be higher or lower than other people's, but that's my gear and stats. Here's the trait distribution as well:
http://gw2skills.net...JuCGlXBwqTBXZVA

#14 Plunderin

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:18 PM

i run 25/30/0/0/15 with 6/6 zerker armor of divinity, zerker weapons, guild assassin back, and valk jewelery.

16,000 hp, 2,227 power, 1657 precision giving me 3208 attack, 39% crit chance, 104% crit dmg

i am very happy with both my dmg and my survivability, although eventually i think i want to swap out my valk neck for a tri forge amulet

#15 Kutsus

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:25 AM

I just want to point out that the 3% crit dmg gained on a ruby jewel is proportionally much bigger than the 15 to a stat you could be getting in it's spot when compared to more efficient armor slots. It's in the range of 3 times more efficient.

If you are going to have any crit damage in your build, valk or berserker jewels are a highly efficient way of getting them, as you're exchanging 90 to a stat for 18% crit damage. You simply cannot get that kind of exchange on any other armor piece.

Some math in this thread if interested: http://www.guildwars...theorycrafting/

#16 Rachmani

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:27 AM

As people pointed out, Jewels should always be berserker (or valkyrie) unless you're completely ignoring crit.
If you want some toughness, get knight armor instead.

#17 shadowstorme1122

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:44 AM

Hello,
Since where on the topic.. what would be the best overall combination for armors, accessories and weapon of the following gears:
> knight
> berserker

Currently i have 3 knight armor & 3 berserker armor, 2 berserker accessory & 4 knight, then my weapon is 2 berserker..

All my armors and accessory are gemmed with crest with the soldier

Thanks

#18 Ensign

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:30 AM

I'm not a huge fan of Knight's pieces as toughness is a pretty minor stat for a thief; don't get me wrong, it's useful, but you scale much better with power, precision, and vitality than toughness.  If the set had big power or precision instead of big toughness I'd be more interested in it.

I like Valkyrie/Beryl and the Invader's set (Power/Toughness/Vitality) as efficient ways to giving yourself some bulk without giving up too much of that important power.  I could see sprinkling in some Knight's gear in combination with Valkyrie pieces, but I wouldn't want to start looking at it until I was up in the 14-15k base health range.

As mentioned, the gems in your jewelry should be Beryls or Rubies, regardless of what the other stats on the jewelry is; they give strong returns on critical hit damage while many other sources of the stat are painfully inefficient.  If you did not already know, you can overwrite the gem in an item with a new one to change the stats, so you could have, say, an Emerald Orichalcum Ring of the Berserker if you bought an Emerald ring and added a Ruby Jewel to it.

#19 ivonbeton

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 04:07 PM

Some things can't be dodged. I think it works great, I used it with my previous gear and now I added some more vit instead. I'd rather take some vitality than toughness though. Thoughness is a decent stat, but with full exotic armor you will be rather ok'ish on the armor departement but still lacking when it comes to vitality.

#20 Fazzi00

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 01:04 PM

i went with full beserker gear, and emerald jewelry(power/prec/toughness). it works out fine for me. the toughness was definitely noticeable

my stats: http://i.imgur.com/scX1z.jpg

Edited by Fazzi00, 20 October 2012 - 01:08 PM.


#21 Nephele

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 02:26 AM

View PostFazzi00, on 20 October 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

i went with full beserker gear, and emerald jewelry(power/prec/toughness). it works out fine for me. the toughness was definitely noticeable

my stats: http://i.imgur.com/scX1z.jpg
But you'd have better overall stats if you went berserker jewels in emerald jewelry with a piece or two of armor switched from berserker to knights. The jewels are by far your best source of crit damage, not using zerk or valkyrie is just throwing away stats.

EDIT: Changing berserker boots to knight gives +34 tough, -10 power -2 crit damage. Changing an exquisite emerald jewel to exquisite ruby jewel gives +10 power, +3% crit damage, -10 precision and -15 tough. By changing boots to knights and one jewel to zerker you gain 19 toughness and 1% crit damage at the cost of 10 precision.

Edited by Nephele, 22 October 2012 - 02:33 AM.


#22 Ensign

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:08 AM

The emerald jewels are interesting because they have big precision instead of big toughness.  Still, ruby or beryl jewels give such good returns that they are hard to pass up.

If you're really optimizing your set-up you'll want to take advantage of the fact that critical damage has a different stat budget on different gear pieces.  1 critical damage costs you 16 stat points on your rings, helm, and pants, while it only costs you 12 points per on your shoulders, gloves, and boots.  As such you'd take Emerald rings, and Knight's helm and pants first, taking a knight's coat if you needed more toughness, and leaving the rest Berserker's for the best stats from that mix.

Jewels are rubies or beryls of course, depending on how much vitality you need.

#23 Minion

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 12:53 PM

Any jewels with crit damage/power and I'm happy.

#24 AdraCo

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 09:26 AM

Hello

I planned the gear for my thief in PvE/WvW and was big problems getting the stats that i want. I think to geared my thief base on crit burst build, but i dont want to be 100% glass cannon, so i think sacrife a bit of  damage to get a bit of survivality. My goal is get around 1300 of vitality (the same of zerk sPvP thief), over 1200 thoughtness and 1800+ precisión, the problem is i cant gear both precisión and vitality, if i get enought vitality my precisión drop, and the same in the opposit side.

Any suggestion? i really want to do burst but i dont want go to WvsW with 12K of HP :S

Thanks all and so sorry for my poor english.

Best regards

P.D: My traits are 10/30/5/0/25 (burst build)

#25 dandelions

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 09:36 AM

You can get away with berserker so no point.

#26 Ravnodaus

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 03:43 PM

I made a post about this over in the Ranger forums a lil while ago. http://www.guildwars...to-do-it-right/

But to sum it up... The best to worst berserker(Or valky) gear is:


Best
  • Jewels

  • Gems

  • Shoulder/Glove/Boot

  • Amulet/One hand weaps

  • Earrings

  • Two hand weaps

  • Chest

  • Leg/Head/Rings
Worst

This is because the amount of %s you get on the gear isn't evenly distributed, some get more than they should, and others get less. The average of about 10 basic stat is roughly equal to 1% crit damage. Even in traits it follows this rule, but on gear...it is all over the place. On jewels for example, you get 3% crit damage at the cost of only 15 stats... that is a cool 5:1 ratio instead of the average expected 10:1. That are twice as good as they should be. On the flip side, taking a look at Leggings, you get 3% crit damage here too...but this time you give up a full 48 other stats for it. That's a 16:1 ratio, and not a very optimal berserker piece at all.

If you want to start mixing berserker wit nything else, like some knights or shaman, or ramp, or rabid...it really doesn't matter. You choose which stats you like... but, which peices you mix and match with will make a difference. Adding only a few peices of Knights for giggles? Swap out your leggings or head or rings first and equip knight versions. Want more? keep moving up the list, swap out into a knight chest next, then your two hander if you use one, then your earrings...etc.

Hope this is helpful!

Ps. berserker/valky jewels (the thing that ugrades your trinkets) are so amazingly too good, that I'd even recommend equipping them if they are only semi synergistic in your build. if they absolutely do nothing for you, ok...skip em. But getting a full 2 times as much of a stat as the item should realistically have is hard to pass on.

Edited by Ravnodaus, 28 October 2012 - 03:50 PM.


#27 Red_Falcon

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 05:20 PM

*cough*

View PostRed_Falcon, on 15 October 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

Zerk armor gives a total of 16% crit damage
Zerk weapons give a total of 10% crit damage.
Zerk Jewels give a total of 36% crit damage.

*coff coff cough cough coff*

#28 AdraCo

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 05:58 PM

View PostRavnodaus, on 28 October 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

I made a post about this over in the Ranger forums a lil while ago. http://www.guildwars...to-do-it-right/

But to sum it up... The best to worst berserker(Or valky) gear is...

Follow your rules its good to keep crit damage, but loosing precision by the way, its worth get high crit dmg with low crit chance?

#29 Minion

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:12 PM

View PostAdraCo, on 28 October 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

Follow your rules its good to keep crit damage, but loosing precision by the way, its worth get high crit dmg with low crit chance?

Hidden Killer is a pretty cool guy.

#30 Ensign

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:55 AM

View PostAdraCo, on 28 October 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

\My goal is get around 1300 of vitality (the same of zerk sPvP thief), over 1200 thoughtness and 1800+ precisión, the problem is i cant gear both precisión and vitality, if i get enought vitality my precisión drop, and the same in the opposit side.

As you mentioned, there really isn't a good way to get the stat balance you seek without swapping out Berserker pieces for Rampager pieces to get the extra crit chance (at the expense of a bit of power and of swapping some crit damage to condi damage).

Using the efficient gear available I'd recommend something like this to get close:


Berserker's weapons
Soldier's Helm / Chest / Pants (Dungeon gear or Karma); Berserker's Shoulder / Glove / Boots (Craft, whatever)
Emerald Rings; Ruby Amulet + Earrings
Guild Defender Backpack

Replace the jewels in the Emerald Rings with Beryl Jewels; place a Beryl Jewel in the backpack.  Leave Ruby Jewels in the Amulet / Earrings.
Use Ruby Orbs in armor (assuming you're filling it out on the cheap)

If you use the 5% of Precision goes to Vitality talent in crit strikes, that should give you:

2099 Power
1785 Precision
1266 Toughness
1216 Vitality
87% Bonus Critical Damage

Which has a bit more toughness instead of vitality, and generally close on all the secondary stats while retaining decent power and crit damage.


-Edited for clarity

Edited by Ensign, 30 October 2012 - 02:02 PM.





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