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Supportive Warrior Builds [Think tank]

warrior support supportive shouts banners team support vigorous shouts inspiring battle standard healing

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#91 Brand

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 06:24 AM

Here is a spread sheet for the gear I plan to use with the build, https://docs.google....MtTzYwOVE#gid=0

I got the shout heal to exactly 1400 points :P

#92 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:02 AM

View PostBrand, on 08 November 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

Here is a spread sheet for the gear I plan to use with the build, https://docs.google....MtTzYwOVE#gid=0

I got the shout heal to exactly 1400 points :P

I don't have permission to view the spreadsheet.

#93 Brand

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:48 AM

Yeah I noticed that after my email was flooded with requests, it's now public.. I think ^^

Green is for major, grey for minor, red for nonexistant (Zeros)

I believe I have all my math right (It's not too complicated really o.o)

It is worth noting that Warriors have some sort of multiplier with Power and Vitality, as I put points into tactics my bonus vitality goes to 105, then 215, then 315. So I'm not sure how exactly it works. Regardless of that, this sheet doesn't take into account the might stacks partially because they flux from 20-25 stacks and also because I was lazy.

The main point is to show off what gear I will be using, the ~60% crit I will have (Translating into "Yes I can keep up might stacks) and that I'm sacrificing only 2 Accessories and gems in order to get exactly 1400 heals (Boy, if that doesn't make math easier!). Not to mention my 20% DR, which is a lot of Effective health, and since heals are better when you have lower Vit and higher toughness, this is nice. I feel like I'm getting a lot more out of my heals even though I am focusing a lot more on damage due to this. I like that my shout's are significant to me as well as my party :P

Also, Sith, could you do me a favor and put a 260 HP (260 makes each shout heal for 1400, I'm wondering how that stacks up to 900/max HP 2x LC and 2x SIO, and how it stacks up against banners) scale into one of your sheets? Just to see how well the healing stacks up to the other builds (Obviously not as good but considering the dps you gain...)?

(Perhaps you could also throw the build and "Gear sheet" into the main post, since the build was your idea mostly you can take a lot of the credit, but I would like some for the hours upon hours I spent testing different stats and how effective they were with the build, as well as runes, sigils, and then all the time I spent determining maximum functionality as a boon/dps/support build :D Not to mention going out of my way to make the spread sheet for others to visually see the optimal gear choices :P AND also for my awesome title xD)

You should have seen the spread sheet BEFORE it was on Google docs xD it was literally a bunch of scribbles in MS paint. The scrawlings of a madman as I googled around for the stats on the exotic gear and gems etc and calculated them etc.

Edited by Brand, 08 November 2012 - 11:35 AM.


#94 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:30 PM

Shouts heal for 1400 each, so over 100 seconds you get 17 shouts:

1400 =  1192 + 0.8*260
17*1400 = 23800
23800/100 = 238 Health/s

Banners: 130+0.125*260 = 162.5 Health/s, = 16250 total

Comparison:

Shouts/Banners = 23800/16250 = 1.46 (Shouts heals 46% more)

Healing at HP 900:

Shouts = 32504
Banners = 24488

Healing at HP "max"

Shouts = 43000
Banners = 34235

Proportionately:

23800/43000 = 0.55, your HP = 260, max = 1672, 260/1672 = 0.16

So you heal Half of what you would at 1672, for only 16% of the Healing Power at max.

#95 Leviathan_85

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:38 PM

Is this new build of yours coming up today with explanations and all I made 50 gold this week so its time to spend now :P

#96 Brand

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:08 PM

View PostSithicus Dias, on 08 November 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

So you heal Half of what you would at 1672, for only 16% of the Healing Power at max.

First of all, that sounds freaking epic, am I reading that right? So for 84% less HP than max, I am only healing 50% less?

Secondly, thank you for the first part but the second part (Though enlightening) is not what I was asking for.
I wanted to compare my 3x LC shouts with 260 HP to a 2x LC build with 900/max HP and a 2x "SIO" build with 900/max HP

Basically I want to know if my 3x shouts with LC at 260 HP is better or worse (And by how much) than all 4 of those things in red there.

View PostLeviathan_85, on 08 November 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

Is this new build of yours coming up today with explanations and all I made 50 gold this week so its time to spend now :P
It is a new DPS/boon duration support build that looks very nice. Build is here. Stats/items you need are here.

And a full length description of the build can be found near the bottom of page 3 of this thread.
It will also apparently be added to the main text of the page (The original post) sometime later today :D

Edited by Brand, 08 November 2012 - 01:19 PM.


#97 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:16 PM

I didn't bother with a 2x SIO build, since to rely on Shrug it Off is overly theoretical, the capacity factor associated with it is not only nigh on impossible to determine, but surely very low as well.

As for 2x LC with 900 and Max, the healing over 100 respectively is 22944 and 30355, so your 23800 compares:

23800/22944 = ~1.04, 23800/30355 = ~0.78

SIO values would be slightly more, but realistically a lot less.

#98 Brand

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:25 PM

Fair enough. Very good to hear that even with 900 HP a 2 shout build doesn't heal more than this, not even mentioning all the damage this build provides!

So what is your opinion or "Rating" of the overall build Sith? Haven't heard much from you regarding your thoughts on it's actual quality, usefulness, etc.

Would be great to hear some questions/concerns, and any critiques or praises :D

#99 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:22 PM

Hey guys, I added a concept build to the OP (Support Build #4), called the Vigorous Greatsword. The build uses runes and consumables to add significant Boon duration (80% in fact, and 100% for Might). The build takes a slightly unconventional approach towards sustained damage output. Since Forceful Greatsword kicks in in a notable way when you use Hundred Blades, stacking Might Duration helps you to avoid the "fall" in DPS between Hundred Blade uses.

Good build Brand, naturally i'm reluctant to offer too much praise since you squeezed thousands of words worth of ideas from me, it was basically mine anyway ;) I do appreciate the testing though, haven't had much time to get on this week.

#100 Brand

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:41 AM

Lol, well the build you put up ISN'T my build at all. It's yours, my build changed yours up quite a bit, even down to specific gear choices. The testing I did with Vigorous Greatsword (Your build) proved that it had a few kinks and flaws. I ironed them out in my build and altered the stats to as near perfect as they can get.

So feel free to take every ounce of credit for that build, as I had no part in it's creation at all.

Edited by Brand, 09 November 2012 - 12:44 AM.


#101 Brand

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:13 AM

http://en.gw2codex.c...hout-greatsword

I used your formatting because I am lazy :P
That will be the full and complete build!

#102 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 09:14 AM

View PostBrand, on 09 November 2012 - 12:41 AM, said:

Lol, well the build you put up ISN'T my build at all.

I did not say it was, nor did I ever say that I would add your build to the OP. The OP is just a baseline anyway, I'm trying to get people to post their own as a way to generate discussion between Warriors, and i'm pleased that you have done that by sharing your own build. The reality of this is that if I had actually written that post days ago (like I said I would), you wouldn't be attacking it so harshly, because at that point you would not have already tested some of the things out.

Will link your build in the OP.

#103 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 09:23 AM

Something really stupid has happened to the OP, it's showing all of the formatting code instead of ACTUALLY formatting it, anybody know how to fix this?

#104 Brand

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 09:30 AM

I was going to ask about that. I've got most of the formatting back for you, will send it in a PM, you'll have to iron it out yourself though :x

Edited by Brand, 09 November 2012 - 09:41 AM.


#105 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 09:41 AM

PM'd a moderator for this forum, with any luck they'll be able to revert it.

Regardless, if you look really closely between the bundles of forum code at the end of the post I linked your build :P

#106 Brand

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 09:49 AM

Don't bother with the Mods, I fixed it all for you (Except maybe the first paragraph... Can't remember if that was different)

I sent you the text in a PM so you can just copy it from there, edit your post, delete all that whosawhat and paste the thing I sent you.

And I did see that ^^

#107 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:03 AM

Right, I think we're back in business, thanks again for this :)

#108 Brand

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:19 AM

View PostSithicus Dias, on 09 November 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

Right, I think we're back in business, thanks again for this :)
Not quite, all of the links in BLUE aren't working, the ones in red are. Simply edit out the blue links, remake the builds if you need to and  paste the links again, that will fix it.

#109 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:47 PM

Hey folks, I think the forum is behaving once again, links in the OP have been corrected.

#110 xyzxyz

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:13 PM

I really like the VS build and have been working towards that. But if i wanted to keep all shouts and deal more damage, would that work? such as using knights instead of cleric accessories could that increase my damage or would that be damaging?

#111 Brand

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:05 PM

View Postxyzxyz, on 19 November 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

I really like the VS build and have been working towards that. But if i wanted to keep all shouts and deal more damage, would that work? such as using knights instead of cleric accessories could that increase my damage or would that be damaging?
Refer to this: http://www.guildwars...out-greatsword/
It is a high damage VS build. You get great damage, great survivability, and good heals/support. It uses a Greatsword and is similar to the Vigorous Greatsword #4 build you find here.

Edited by Brand, 19 November 2012 - 02:08 PM.


#112 xyzxyz

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:14 PM

Thanks Brand, but im not that keen on the GS. I much prefer the mace/shield or sword/shield. Would your build still work though if i were to use other weapons?

#113 Brand

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:29 PM

Sadly no, but if you're looking to use Mace/Shield I would highly recommend going full support. If you start taking away from your support in order to increase your damage in a build such as that, you will only water it down.

There are not many support builds with good damage, Sonic Boon is one, there are a few others incorporating the Longbow and blast combo Might. Sonic Boon is the best overall build, in that the Longbow one and others are fairly situational and dependant on factors such as team composition, the type of fight, etc. With Sonic Boon you will never be wasting parts of your build, or parts of builds from other players in your group.

The reason there aren't many is because they simply aren't worth it a majority of the time. The damage you would gain by going say Mace/shield with Knight's gear (But keeping all the traits the same) will not be worth the healing/support you lose, especially when running Soldier's runes. Cleric's gear and defensive traits will give you the most bang for your buck in a Mace/shield VS build.

The same can be said (And has been said) is regards to taking a build like Sonic Boon and upping it's support/defense. Most often the question is "Can I use soldier's runes?" The answer is yes, but it simply won't be as effective since the armor, build, weapon, and etc are based around damage, not supporting the team. Not to mention there are others doing it better than you in the group such as a guardian, and any condition removal you have could actually be hurting their build. (For you, concerning mace/shield and upping its damage, this could be something like a bleed warrior on your team, if you put points into arms with a mace/shield, you're going to be adding some worthless low damage bleeds to the enemy, where there could have been strong bleeds, or etc.)

Overall the best choice is to stick with one side of the spectrum, and run with group mates who don't conflict with your build. If you want to use Mace/shield and you want to support, you should go full support/control (As Sithicus' VS build does) and let others make up for your lost damage. You can provide a lot to the group in other ways, such as healing, taking hits, controlling enemies, and removing conditions.

Edited by Brand, 19 November 2012 - 02:35 PM.


#114 Ciclosano

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:34 PM

Hi Guys, I'm currently running the Vigourous shouts build, and i just wanted to say that it's awesome . I can keep alive the party most of the time, also if i have my shouts in CD, i have 3 different skills to stun/daze the foes, and the 3s of blocking are just OP. Now i have around 1k healing power, my question is , Do i have to get as much healing power as possible? or there is a moment when it doesnt worth to get more healing power...Oh, also i would like to know if there is a proper legendary weapon for this build, beacuse i've been looking for one of them with healing power but i couldn't find it. Thanks in advance.

PS: Sorry for my poor english, i'm not native english speaker.

#115 Brand

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:40 PM

View PostCiclosano, on 19 November 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

Hi Guys, I'm currently running the Vigourous shouts build, and i just wanted to say that it's awesome . I can keep alive the party most of the time, also if i have my shouts in CD, i have 3 different skills to stun/daze the foes, and the 3s of blocking are just OP. Now i have around 1k healing power, my question is , Do i have to get as much healing power as possible? or there is a moment when it doesnt worth to get more healing power...Oh, also i would like to know if there is a proper legendary weapon for this build, beacuse i've been looking for one of them with healing power but i couldn't find it. Thanks in advance.

PS: Sorry for my poor english, i'm not native english speaker.
It is a good build. You should take as much healing power as what's available to you, I think Sithicus details the gear and etc pretty well. So you could just do what he does. As for the legendaries, as far as I know they all have the same stats, you'll have to use a Fine Transmogrification stone to put the Legendary appearance on a weapon that is for your build. So basically, go find an exotic Cleric's mace, and use the T-stone to get the mace's states and the legendary appearance.

Edited by Brand, 19 November 2012 - 02:41 PM.


#116 xyzxyz

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:47 PM

Ah right. Thanks for the quick reply Brand. Well, i guess now VS seems like the build i should go for. I really dont mind the damage loss i guess, i usually run around with a couple of friends so it'll be an extra bonus for them with all the healing and condition removals i'll provide. Thanks again!

#117 Brand

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:10 PM

Sure thing ^^

#118 Ciclosano

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:21 PM

Oh! Thanks man, I said that, because i thought there was something like a "Maximun healing amount" (I know there is another way to call it , i dont remember tha word) . That was all, thanks so much

Edited by Ciclosano, 19 November 2012 - 03:21 PM.


#119 Brand

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:45 PM

Well "maximum healing" is just that, the max you can get period, it's not really a realistic goal though. Healing power does have diminishing returns after 500, but it's not bad enough to make you not want to use more (You still get good numbers, just technically and mathematically they are diminished)

No problem, good luck with your endeavors! ^^

#120 Sithicus Dias

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:34 PM

Going to revamp the OP, cut down gratuitous explanation, organize builds better, and even omit some sections now. Watch this space...




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