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Beat Mode PvE/WvW "Ultra Guardian" Build - High Damage, Good Survivability

guardian build pvp wvw wvwvw pve dungeons support dps high damage

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#31 QTRKOBRA

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 12:14 PM

Hey man, thank you for this build, I was thinking of rolling a GS/Staff weapon choice with this build? What should I do with the last 10 points in radiance since the last trait is one handed weapon crits. Or do I have to change something else as well? Such as runes/sigils or even armor? You also mentioned Berzerker weapons, should I get a berzerker GS as well? There are two types of zerker weapons, pearl and destroyer would it matter which one I chose?



Thank You!

Edited by QTRKOBRA, 21 October 2012 - 12:16 PM.


#32 Ultramatum

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 06:48 PM

View PostQTRKOBRA, on 21 October 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

Hey man, thank you for this build, I was thinking of rolling a GS/Staff weapon choice with this build? What should I do with the last 10 points in radiance since the last trait is one handed weapon crits. Or do I have to change something else as well? Such as runes/sigils or even armor? You also mentioned Berzerker weapons, should I get a berzerker GS as well? There are two types of zerker weapons, pearl and destroyer would it matter which one I chose?

If you want to replace scepter/focus and go with Greatsword, this build will let you do that.  You'll want to get a Berserker Greatsword (One with Power/Precision/Crit Damage), so it doesn't matter which kind you choose as long as it has those stats on it.  If you tend to use the greatsword more than your staff, put the Sigil of Accuracy on that and the Sigil of Perception on the staff.

Switch out Right Handed Strength for Perfect Inscriptions.  This will make your signets more powerful, so Signet of Judgement mitigates 20% damage and Bane Signet will add +200 power to your attack stats.

View PostThe Trouble With Me, on 20 October 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

Seems like the build is evolving over time which is good. However it might be worth taking the fundamentals of the build and seperating skill slots and trait allocation (and maybe upgrade components) between WvW and PvE, since those things can be so easily changed.

EDit: also fyi rune of the pack is majorly bugged, 4) doesn't proc and 3) gives healing power instead.

Well, the purpose of the build was to have something that was viable for both PvE and WvW so you wouldn't need to retrain your traits and whatnot.

Also, I tested out Runes of the Pack, and did not notice these bugs.  I was proccing for the boons fairly regularly, and the boons you get are the same ones you get when Ranger uses the Warhorn #5 skill.  So it appears to be working just as the tooltip says.  I know it says this is bugged in the Wiki, but it appears this was fixed in the game.

Edited by Ultramatum, 21 October 2012 - 07:09 PM.


#33 KodiakX

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 06:59 PM

How did you hit 10 mobs at once with a skill that only hits 5 targets?

#34 Ultramatum

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 07:11 PM

View PostKodiakX, on 21 October 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

How did you hit 10 mobs at once with a skill that only hits 5 targets?

If you read the thread, you'll see I explained this.  That statement was a bit of hyperbolie since staff's autoattack only hits 5 mobs in a 45 degree cone.  However, using symbol of swiftness and orb of light, you will be hitting more than just 5 mobs with your attacks, since you can place SoS anywhere and Orb Of Light hits everything in it's path for 1200 meters.  While testing this build on the test dummies in the Mists, I was seeing a littany of damage numbers tick in front of me.

#35 The Trouble With Me

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 07:48 PM

View PostUltramatum, on 21 October 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

Well, the purpose of the build was to have something that was viable for both PvE and WvW so you wouldn't need to retrain your traits and whatnot.

Also, I tested out Runes of the Pack, and did not notice these bugs.  I was proccing for the boons fairly regularly, and the boons you get are the same ones you get when Ranger uses the Warhorn #5 skill.  So it appears to be working just as the tooltip says.  I know it says this is bugged in the Wiki, but it appears this was fixed in the game.

I didn't mean having to re-spec. I meant switching out trait choices and utilities within the build, although I expect people will be able to do that by themselves.

And thanks for testing, that's good news. I found this thread about guardian bugs quite interesting on the official forums, it's active too.
https://forum-en.gui...mpilation/first

Edited by The Trouble With Me, 21 October 2012 - 07:49 PM.


#36 Ultramatum

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 07:58 PM

Okay, so I played around with some upgrades and I think I found the optimal combination of upgrades for the build.

3 Superior Runes of Divinity + 3 Emerald Orbs

This combination gives you:

+90 Precision
+72 Toughness
+72 Power
+30 Vitality
+6% Crit Damage

I tested this against my full Divinity set, my 5 Emerald + 1 Beryl Orb set, and my Pack set.  I also tested 4 Divinity + 2 Emerald Orbs.  Out of all these combinations, the 3 Divinity/3 Emerald Orb combo gave me the best increase in stats.  With this combination, my stats were:
  • Power 1,988
  • Precision 1,687
  • Toughness 988
  • Vitality 1,561
  • Attack 3,099
  • Crit Chance 41%
  • Crit Damage 67%
  • Armor 2,199
  • Health 17,255
Compare with 4 Runes of Divinity and 2 Emerald Orbs:
  • Power 1,984
  • Precision 1,677
  • Toughness 984
  • Vitality 1,571
  • Attack 3,095
  • Crit Chance 40%
  • Crit Damage 69%
  • Armor 2,195
  • Health 17,355
As you can see, with the extra rune of Divinity, you gain 2% crit damage and 100 health, but you lose a small amount of attack, crit chance, and armor.  It's not a lot, but I'm not sure 2% crit damage and 100 health is worth the trade off.  Losing 1% to crit chance is small, but still not a good thing for this build.

Compare to 5 Emerald Orbs + 1 Beryl Orb
  • Power 2,006
  • Precision 1,697
  • Toughness 986
  • Vitality 1,545
  • Attack 3,117
  • Crit Chance 41%
  • Crit Damage 63%
  • Armor 2,197
  • Health 17,095
As you can see, the 3 Divinity/3 Emerald combo gives you a huge increase in crit damage and health.  Your crit chance stays the same, but you do lose some power.  However, your armor is also slightly increased.  So it seems for the increased survivability and buff to crit damage, the 3 Divinity/3 Emerald combo is far superior.

For those of you who can't afford the Divinity Runes, I would do the 5 Emerald/1 Beryl orb build, and gradually replace 1 Beryl and 2 Emerald upgrades with the Divinity runes as you get enough money/crafting materials to acquire them.  But in all my testing, this seems to be the most optimal upgrade route for this build.

#37 KodiakX

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:01 PM

Yea spreading stats around is typically good in this game.  I find the soft caps are hit pretty quickly in my limited playing around with stats.

#38 kasimmorathi

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:51 PM

Guardian Beast Adjustment

Made some talent trait adjustments.  I increased your toughness by around 300 points by sacrificing 6% in crit, but conversely I increased your crit damage by about 10% without using comparatively more expensive runes.  You might be able to increase the precision a bit more if you used gems instead.  

This is a bit more PVE focused.  I don't believe the loss of crit percentage will be too noticeable and could be offset with some jewel choices.  I don't think any group utility was truly sacrificed in this, then again I haven't been group running quite a bit yet.  Not sure what the toughness equates to in practical survivability, but if you're dealing with large groups of enemies it may be beneficial.  

Dunno!  I just finished leveling my thief so now I'm looking at a Guardian.

Edit:  I would also suggest switching to a Superior Sigil of Minor Accuracy since I believe, once you get it up to 25 kills, it ramps up the overall crit chance more than your 5% flat rate.  5% flat would be better for PVP since you will get downed more often, but in PVE you should get to 25 quickly and easily.  Just tweaking depending on if someone has focuses other than PVP without totally imbalancing it one way or another.

With minor accuracy used instead, I believe at the full 25 stacks you gain 10% critical chance.  This would lower the overall loss of crit chance from 6% to 1%, with significant gains in toughness and critical damage.  Just food for thought!

Edited by kasimmorathi, 21 October 2012 - 10:14 PM.


#39 AtomicDoom

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:54 PM

How am I supposed to PVE with this build? When I tried using scepter/focus, I found using greatsword a much better option, because it deals more damage and everything is just more quick. Also, the main staff I only found useful when there was like 5-6 enemies in front of me and then I just spammed autoattack, otherwise I always played with greatsword, it does way more damage.
I have 224 Power, 387 Precision, 180 Toughness, 230 Vitality as a level 27 Guardian. This build seems just weak to me against pve when leveling. Am I doing something wrong?

#40 Ultramatum

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 10:24 PM

View Postkasimmorathi, on 21 October 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

Guardian Beast Adjustment

Made some talent trait adjustments.  I increased your toughness by around 300 points by sacrificing 6% in crit, but conversely I increased your crit damage by about 10% without using comparatively more expensive runes.  You might be able to increase the precision a bit more if you used gems instead.  

This is a bit more PVE focused.  I don't believe the loss of crit percentage will be too noticeable and could be offset with some jewel choices.  I don't think any group utility was truly sacrificed in this, then again I haven't been group running quite a bit yet.  Not sure what the toughness equates to in practical survivability, but if you're dealing with large groups of enemies it may be beneficial.  

Dunno!  I just finished leveling my thief so now I'm looking at a Guardian.

Edit:  I would also suggest switching to a Superior Sigil of Minor Accuracy since I believe, once you get it up to 25 kills, it ramps up the overall crit chance more than your 5% flat rate.  5% flat would be better for PVP since you will get downed more often, but in PVE you should get to 25 quickly and easily.  Just tweaking depending on if someone has focuses other than PVP without totally imbalancing it one way or another.

Hi Kasimmorathi,

Thanks for your contribution, but I would not recommend making the changes you suggested.

First off, this is not a PvP build.  This is for Pve/WvW/Dungeons.  Equipping both the Sigil of Superior Perception and the Sigil of Superior Accuracy gives us a boost of 15% to our crit chance rate.  I would not recommend charge sigils in PvP since you die far too much to make them reliable.  And besides, this build is a far superior PvP version of my Ultra Guardian build.

Also, for your trait distribution, I believe I made my case in this thread that I find Vitality far more important than toughness when it comes to survivability.  Toughness only mitigates direct damage.  But vitality applies to all forms of damage.  Running full gear and upgrades with this build, you'll have about 2,200 armor, which is plenty of damage mitigation.  We make up for the lack of crit damage in the valor line with the Divinity Runes and consumables, such as curry butternut squash soup.  Yes, your build might give you more crit damage, but that stat is only good if you have a higher crit chance.  The purpose of this build is to have the Staff autoattack critting more than half the time, because that's when you'll be seeing auto-attack hits for over 1K a pop, and orb of light hits for 2500 a pop.

Plus, your build sacrifices the improved signet traits for traits in the valor line we don't really need.  Strength in Numbers is a poor trait choice for a non-support build, and Retributive Armor doesn't give you as much precision as fully speccing into Radiance would.  Plus, not going for 10 in virtues gimps your use of consecrations, especially in WvW play.

I would suggest actually playing Guardian and testing out your builds before recommending changes.  :-)

Edited by Ultramatum, 21 October 2012 - 11:36 PM.


#41 jpg1

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:19 AM

View PostUltramatum, on 21 October 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

Okay, so I played around with some upgrades and I think I found the optimal combination of upgrades for the build.

3 Superior Runes of Divinity + 3 Emerald Orbs

This combination gives you:

+90 Precision
+72 Toughness
+72 Power
+30 Vitality
+6% Crit Damage


You must be really darn rich to be throwing around runes every other day. I should add you to my contact in-game, I'd like a taste of that rich life. But it's really helpful that you go through all this trouble to fine tune an already solid build. So you we're back to Divinity Runes. It's a good thing that they're down to 3, I guess. :lol:

Going down the Route of Valor seems really hard to do if you want to use this kind of set-up. And if Perfect Inscriptions really does improve Signets that well, then sticking with Radiance will really be a way to go. (As for the other people reading this and are still theory-building on Valor, it's not possible to duplicate this build's performance doing that route. I should know, I've been stuck with Valor for the longest time.)

For a sake of a  last attempt with Valor, I'm might be more inclined to do this: 0/20/10/30/10. Can you test this, Ultramatum?
  • You get 100 Toughness just to bump it up a bit.
  • Retributive Armor will give you back 50 - 60 Precision which is a about -50 Precision if you went full Radiance. (And Perfect Inscriptions & Right-hand Mastery, Great drawback I think too)
  • +10% Critical Damage.


#42 Ultramatum

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:38 AM

View PostAtomicDoom, on 21 October 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

How am I supposed to PVE with this build? When I tried using scepter/focus, I found using greatsword a much better option, because it deals more damage and everything is just more quick. Also, the main staff I only found useful when there was like 5-6 enemies in front of me and then I just spammed autoattack, otherwise I always played with greatsword, it does way more damage.
I have 224 Power, 387 Precision, 180 Toughness, 230 Vitality as a level 27 Guardian. This build seems just weak to me against pve when leveling. Am I doing something wrong?

Scepter/Focus is more handy for when you're doing dungeons and WvW where you need a ranged option.  You can use this build with GS/Staff very easily, since the two weapons synergize well together.

I did not use this build while leveling.  I did an empowering might + altruistic healing build while I leveled.  This is more for end-game stuff, and there may be better builds to level with.  You may not need to use the staff while you level since it doesn't really shine until later in the game when you take on more mobs and need to hit harder and support a team.  Also, with staff, you really need to learn how to incorporate Orb of Light and Symbol of Swiftness into your autoattack to help you kill things quicker.

While leveling, I'd recommend following Red Falcon's post about how to build a guardian Properly.  I followed his basic suggestions while leveling and found them to be quite helpful.

#43 Ultramatum

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:47 AM

View Postjpg1, on 22 October 2012 - 06:19 AM, said:

You must be really darn rich to be throwing around runes every other day. I should add you to my contact in-game, I'd like a taste of that rich life. But it's really helpful that you go through all this trouble to fine tune an already solid build. So you we're back to Divinity Runes. It's a good thing that they're down to 3, I guess. :lol:

Going down the Route of Valor seems really hard to do if you want to use this kind of set-up. And if Perfect Inscriptions really does improve Signets that well, then sticking with Radiance will really be a way to go. (As for the other people reading this and are still theory-building on Valor, it's not possible to duplicate this build's performance doing that route. I should know, I've been stuck with Valor for the longest time.)

For a sake of a  last attempt with Valor, I'm might be more inclined to do this: 0/20/10/30/10. Can you test this, Ultramatum?
  • You get 100 Toughness just to bump it up a bit.
  • Retributive Armor will give you back 50 - 60 Precision which is a about -50 Precision if you went full Radiance. (And Perfect Inscriptions & Right-hand Mastery, Great drawback I think too)
  • +10% Critical Damage.

Yes, it helps to sell things on the Trading Post, lol.  Though after this last test I'm back to being a po boy.  lol.

The affordable route is to apply the Orb build I laid out, and slowly add in the Runes as you get money for them.  If you have a supportive  guild or can farm some coin, that will help.  I tend to sell a lot of crafting materials on the TP since there's always a market for those.

I really don't know what your hang up with Valor is dude, lol.  With the rune set I laid out I don't really think you need to go down the Valor route at all.  I've tested tons of set-ups with the Guardian, using Knights, Clerics, Valkyrie, and Berserker armor, trying variations on all different trait lines.  I've theorycrafted with a number of smart players, and I've come up with 2 builds that work extremely well for me.  This DPS build and a Support build.  Neither of which use Valor at all (Well, the Support build has 10 points into it, but they're kinda throw-away there).

The thing is, unless you want to go an Empowering Might + Altruistic Healing build, i don't see much use for Valor at all.  If you like it, you can try and find a build that incorporates it, but this build I laid out works very well for me and I don't feel like losing a grandmaster trait in Radiance is worth the trade off for Valor.

#44 AtomicDoom

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:56 AM

View PostUltramatum, on 22 October 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

Scepter/Focus is more handy for when you're doing dungeons and WvW where you need a ranged option.  You can use this build with GS/Staff very easily, since the two weapons synergize well together.

I did not use this build while leveling.  I did an empowering might + altruistic healing build while I leveled.  This is more for end-game stuff, and there may be better builds to level with.  You may not need to use the staff while you level since it doesn't really shine until later in the game when you take on more mobs and need to hit harder and support a team.  Also, with staff, you really need to learn how to incorporate Orb of Light and Symbol of Swiftness into your autoattack to help you kill things quicker.

While leveling, I'd recommend following Red Falcon's post about how to build a guardian Properly.  I followed his basic suggestions while leveling and found them to be quite helpful.

Thanks for replying. Can you tell me which skills and traits did you use with the empowering might + altruistic healing while leveling?

#45 Ultramatum

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:03 AM

Hi AtomicDoom - I basically just followed Red Falcon's suggestions.  If you look at Stife's build, he lays out the AH + EM build in detail and you can follow it easily.  If you use Greatsword, I'd try to get to the 20 point Honor trait 2 handed mastery as quick as possible because it will up your DPS dramatically while increasing your health pool.  Then I'd go 15 into Radiance for the spammable Virtue of Justice.  I tended to use Spirit Weapons a lot while leveling so 10 into Virtues can increase their duration.  That's what I'd recommend until you can unlock the Grandmaster traits.

#46 jpg1

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:50 AM

View PostUltramatum, on 22 October 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

Yes, it helps to sell things on the Trading Post, lol.  Though after this last test I'm back to being a po boy.  lol.

The affordable route is to apply the Orb build I laid out, and slowly add in the Runes as you get money for them.  If you have a supportive  guild or can farm some coin, that will help.  I tend to sell a lot of crafting materials on the TP since there's always a market for those.

I really don't know what your hang up with Valor is dude, lol.  With the rune set I laid out I don't really think you need to go down the Valor route at all.  I've tested tons of set-ups with the Guardian, using Knights, Clerics, Valkyrie, and Berserker armor, trying variations on all different trait lines.  I've theorycrafted with a number of smart players, and I've come up with 2 builds that work extremely well for me.  This DPS build and a Support build.  Neither of which use Valor at all (Well, the Support build has 10 points into it, but they're kinda throw-away there).

The thing is, unless you want to go an Empowering Might + Altruistic Healing build, i don't see much use for Valor at all.  If you like it, you can try and find a build that incorporates it, but this build I laid out works very well for me and I don't feel like losing a grandmaster trait in Radiance is worth the trade off for Valor.

Thanks for the reply. It's just that I got so used to working with Valor all this time but I agree with you with that the best build for it is EM+AH. BTW, do you have a post for your support build? I'd like to take a look at that one too.

#47 Ultramatum

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:33 PM

Not yet.  I'll see if I can whip one up.  I love my support build and it really shines in WvW, which I'm doing much more of than dungeons.  It's just finding the time to write it up that can be a bit of a pain, lol.

#48 Sepp

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:46 PM

Just wanted to say I've been running this build in in Orr and WvW, and loving it. I use a staff/GS, which does all I need. Still saving up for the focus/scepter, which I'll likely only use in WvW. GS is just to useful with its pulling and leap.

One question, I can't seem to add gems to armor that already has runes in it. Is there some trick to this? I'd assume they'd overwrite the existing rune, but that doesn't seem to happen.

#49 Ultramatum

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 12:37 AM

You can't apply gems to armor.  You have to use Orbs.  Orbs are required to make gems, but gems can only be applied to accessories.

#50 Sepp

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 01:00 AM

Oh well. I guess I'll save them for jewelry then. Thanks.

#51 jpg1

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 01:19 AM

View PostUltramatum, on 23 October 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

You can't apply gems to armor.  You have to use Orbs.  Orbs are required to make gems, but gems can only be applied to accessories.

That's another thing. Can't use Orbs yet since I have to make Exotic Jewelry first. Oh the pains of being poor. But I'm getting there. I'm dying less and less, as I've gotten used to the build.

#52 Sepp

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:02 AM

View PostUltramatum, on 21 October 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:


For those of you who can't afford the Divinity Runes, I would do the 5 Emerald/1 Beryl orb build, and gradually replace 1 Beryl and 2 Emerald upgrades with the Divinity runes as you get enough money/crafting materials to acquire them.  But in all my testing, this seems to be the most optimal upgrade route for this build.


Are you still using the same accessories as recommended in the first post? And, are you implying that Divinity Runes are craftable? I haven't seen the recipe for that, on GW2DB or elsewhere.

#53 jpg1

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:23 AM

I wanted to ask if the Emerald Ori Earring Could be replaced with Another Beryl Earring instead. I know that that you change precision slightly.

For that matter, would it be okay if Earrings Were both Beryl, and the amulet can be the one that's Emerald?

I'm just being OC right now, as I don't want mismatching accessories. Would it be a big effect if I went for pure Valkyrie Trinkets?

The real reason actually is that following your support build, it uses pure Valkyrie Trinkets, and it would be nice to save the Gold for yet another Amulet or Earring.

Edited by jpg1, 24 October 2012 - 05:06 AM.


#54 Ultramatum

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 06:00 AM

View PostSepp, on 24 October 2012 - 03:02 AM, said:

Are you still using the same accessories as recommended in the first post? And, are you implying that Divinity Runes are craftable? I haven't seen the recipe for that, on GW2DB or elsewhere.

I assumed you could craft them.  Apparently you need to salvage them from items labeled "Divinity."

My accessories are the Guild Assassin Backpack and full Valkyrie accessories.

View Postjpg1, on 24 October 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

I wanted to ask if the Emerald Ori Earring Could be replaced with Another Beryl Earring instead. I know that that you change precision slightly.

For that matter, would it be okay if Earrings Were both Beryl, and the amulet can be the one that's Emerald?

I'm just being OC right now, as I don't want mismatching accessories. Would it be a big effect if I went for pure Valkyrie Trinkets?

The real reason actually is that following your support build, it uses pure Valkyrie Trinkets, and it would be nice to save the Gold for yet another Amulet or Earring.

Sure, I guess.

Edited by Ultramatum, 24 October 2012 - 06:03 AM.


#55 jpg1

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 06:10 AM

View PostUltramatum, on 24 October 2012 - 06:00 AM, said:


My accessories are the Guild Assassin Backpack and full Valkyrie accessories.


Ah so it's full Valkyrie already. Your OP had one Emerald Ori Earring with Beryl Jewel. That clears it up. Thanks.

#56 LumintX

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:44 PM

So would you suggest getting runes of the pack instead of the divinity runes? I mean considering divinity runes are 4x the price.

I see that 3divinity/3emerald orb is best from your post above, but it doesn't compare it to the pack runes.

Edited by LumintX, 24 October 2012 - 11:51 PM.


#57 Ultramatum

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:23 AM

Well, you don't get the swiftness bonus or the group buff with the 3/3 Divinity/Orb combo, but that gives you the best over-all stat increase.

For optimal min/max, I recommend the 3 Divinity runes + 3 Orb combo.  But you can use anything you want, really.  I recommend Runes of the Pack because its 6/6 buff is the +100 precision increase.

#58 LumintX

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:19 AM

I'm going to give the 3/3 a try and see how it is, appreciate you taking the time to write all this up.

#59 Aeneas

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:46 PM

Just came across this thread - great work to all involved!  This seems like a bit improved version of the gear setup that I have on my GS/staff guardian, so I think that I will be looking to make some changes when I get home and will post some feedback :).

Quick question: Perfect Inscriptions for Radiance 30 was recommended, has this trait been fixed?  When I was playing with it a few weeks ago and it was bugged.

#60 Fenice_86

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 10:53 AM

Premising i dont have a guardian and i'm just theorycrafting i've edited a few major traits and a skill to use it in a pve environment only:

http://gw2skills.net...qxWjrGZNLCGEs/A

What do u think about it? (pve only usage and i underline once again, i dont have a guardian, just experimenting on the browser)




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