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Disappointing "Personal" Storyline (SPOILER)

trahearne personal story line disappointing impersonal rubbish

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#31 Krazzar

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:57 PM

Story missions are entirely too short and many of them could be combined, such as the vigil ogre chain which begins with taming rock dogs, then guarding resource gatherers, and ends with defending the kraal. Those three missions could be combined into one. There are two problems with the story, though that I think the short duration handles, 1. Many are buggy, so restarting a long mission would be more annoying, 2. It can create more personal story choices. I would prefer for story missions to be longer and operate like dungeons with multiple paths you can choose during the mission. That would make it more enticing for myself and grouping for missions as well.  I would also like to be able to repeat missions, but that brings up problems with farming and exploiting missions.

As a sylvari character I also had no idea who Trahearne was. He showed up in a couple missions, but his interaction amounted to "hi, I'm Trahearne, I'm important but I'm going to ask you to make all the decisions". That really is my personal gripe with the personal story, you're brand new, in the case of the sylvari literally new to the world, and you're making all the decisions, which gives little insight into how the varioius groups do things.  The problem with that is games these days require players to be engaged by making decisions, otherwise they feel worthless. Personally, the call of duty one-man-army, saviour of the world concept is boring to me, but it's hard to get away from if you want the players to feel important.

#32 MFGrady

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:25 PM

View PostKrazzar, on 14 October 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

Story missions are entirely too short and many of them could be combined, such as the vigil ogre chain which begins with taming rock dogs, then guarding resource gatherers, and ends with defending the kraal. Those three missions could be combined into one. There are two problems with the story, though that I think the short duration handles, 1. Many are buggy, so restarting a long mission would be more annoying, 2. It can create more personal story choices. I would prefer for story missions to be longer and operate like dungeons with multiple paths you can choose during the mission. That would make it more enticing for myself and grouping for missions as well.  I would also like to be able to repeat missions, but that brings up problems with farming and exploiting missions.

As a sylvari character I also had no idea who Trahearne was. He showed up in a couple missions, but his interaction amounted to "hi, I'm Trahearne, I'm important but I'm going to ask you to make all the decisions". That really is my personal gripe with the personal story, you're brand new, in the case of the sylvari literally new to the world, and you're making all the decisions, which gives little insight into how the varioius groups do things.  The problem with that is games these days require players to be engaged by making decisions, otherwise they feel worthless. Personally, the call of duty one-man-army, saviour of the world concept is boring to me, but it's hard to get away from if you want the players to feel important.

I think the end of the personal story would be less flawed if Trahearne felt more iconic. I literally did not know who he was until he rolled up on Forgal and was like "Sup dog".

I feel that there are too many zone hopping missions ala "Go all the way to Gendarren Fields and poke this guy, then come back to Black Citadel and tell us if he said ouch. If he Did, go back call him a Wuss, if he didn't go to Metrica Province and give this guy a wrench".

I do like the fact that I make a choice every other quest as I have yet to do the same story. For example, I have no clue what you are talking about as far as training Rock dogs. I am Vigil and never did that. Even in Orr, Me and a Friend are on the exact same point in Our PS, but we both have different missions for the same link.

#33 AKGeo

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:36 PM

all throughout history it's the heroes of the battles that get the recognition from the people when all is said and done. The Generals have their glory, but it's the soldiers on the ground who step up and go above and beyond to achieve victory against all odds that get the everlasting glory, the legends, the stories, the songs. You're the hero in this story...Trahearne is simply the guy putting the hero into positions where heroism is required.

#34 matsif

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:57 PM

they followed the kormir story too closely here.  In Prophecies, you killed the lich and were the hero, even with devona and aiden and mhenlo, etc.  In Factions, you killed Shiro.  Not mhenlo, not the emporer, you.  In EotN, you killed the great destroyer (and woke up primordius...but still).

In Nightfall, you were going to kill abadon, but kormir appears.  She takes his place as a god.  You do all of the heavy lifting, but she becomes a god.  

The whole GW2 storyline is that Trahearne was told by the pale tree that he was destined to get rid of zhaitan.  So he complains the whole time about his dream, while you do all the work, and at the end, he is the one given credit while you do all the heavy lifting again.

At the time, I thought the NF story was done well.  After claw island, I don't feel the same way about GW2's story.  This is supposed to be my legend (according to Eir if you were norn), but this tree-man shows up and takes all the glory.  Big disappointment if you ask me.  If the experience gain wasn't what it was, I would never do the PS after level 50.  The fact that it makes leveling easier is the only thing keeping me doing it after that point.

#35 Phoebe Ascension

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 12:23 AM

I have no problems with him. The story CLEARLY explains why he becomes leader. There's multiple reasons. Hell you even have to motivate him often enough to keep up his courage. (and this keeps up with your own heroic act, because this is one of those 'this is the right thing to do thing' - You know it, you do it, there's no other option). If you don't know what I mean, seriously rewind your char and watch all cutscenes closely. Perhaps in Orr he could use a little more depth. But that's only a minor complaint.

#36 fatrodmc

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 12:27 AM

Personally I would not have introduced sylvari or asura, I would have kept the human/charr war going, and would have played out the grenth vs dhumm story a lot more. But hey its not my game...

For what it was I thought the story was ok, I didn't mind Trahearne at all. Like AKGeo said the general always takes the glory.

My biggest gripes are with the length of the missions themselves, and the fact that the final mission is a dungeon. It took me about a week to find a group for Arah. Which is ok but since it is PvE I feel I should not have had to find a group at all. I imagine it will be impossible in a few months' time.

I also think the arah mission in particular was way too long. It should have been split into two separate sections, once you are on the airship.

#37 Chaos

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 12:51 AM

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you about Sieran (the priory mentor) being annoying. She's one of my favorite NPCs in the game.

But other than that, yeah It kinda feels a bit lackluster. More like you become the narrator for somebody else's heroic story.

#38 Chaos

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 12:56 AM

View PostPhoebe Ascension, on 15 October 2012 - 12:23 AM, said:

I have no problems with him. The story CLEARLY explains why he becomes leader. There's multiple reasons. Hell you even have to motivate him often enough to keep up his courage. (and this keeps up with your own heroic act, because this is one of those 'this is the right thing to do thing' - You know it, you do it, there's no other option). If you don't know what I mean, seriously rewind your char and watch all cutscenes closely. Perhaps in Orr he could use a little more depth. But that's only a minor complaint.
In my opinion the shift is too sudden. I get that he is the supposed Orr expert, but he himself admits that he submerged himself in his studies to avoid any conflict. One mission later and *boom* there he goes taking leadership and assuming the role of the lead tactician that assumes any important mission needs his assistance to avoid failure. Pretty much at this point all you get is a pat on the head and to be told "nice job Robin, but I'm BATMAN".

#39 Kurosov

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 01:04 AM

View Postmatsif, on 14 October 2012 - 11:57 PM, said:

they followed the kormir story too closely here.  In Prophecies, you killed the lich and were the hero, even with devona and aiden and mhenlo, etc.  In Factions, you killed Shiro.  Not mhenlo, not the emporer, you.  In EotN, you killed the great destroyer (and woke up primordius...but still).

And in gw2 you kill the big bad, not trahearne. His role was to "cleanse orr", your job is to kill the dragon.

I'm guessing those who read the mini stories before release as well as all the lore articles felt more comnfortable with knowing who he was and why he was chosen as the leader etc.

#40 Gremlin

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 01:29 AM

I am on the Sylvary storyline and its fun though far from perfect.
Yes some of the tasks could have been made longer, if your lower lvl that the mission they can be tough but trying and failing a couple of times isnt a fun thing to do and if your a few lvls higher then the mission is a walkover.
They do not seem to scale to your lvl which they might have done, also each part of the story could have involved several tasks.

Other parts that not so much fail as are a little disappointing.

Joining the Vigil Whispers etc.
Up to that point you make your own decisions based on what is known about the mission.
When you make the choice you seem to be saying I will surrender my judgement to you and do things your way.
May be a simplification but they seem to offer.
Be sneaky, Hit it a lot and then hit it some more, Use a gadget or experimental weapon.
Cannot confirm this I went whispers and their missions are being sneaky in disguise etc the other two offer variety or not.
Point is its more fun to decide how a mission should go rather than being forced to do it someone elses way.

Char Engineer character storyline, has one aspect that annoys me, I will try not to spoil it for you too much.
You invent a weapon, yet you do not get to use it outside of the storyline.
You get to choose how its developed ie siege type weapon or man portable turret but again you do not get it as a skill.

Ok now I understand that it would have been difficult to include this giving charr engineers a skill others do not get.
But its annoying from a rpg point of view.
I invented it so let me use the darn thing you could have added one such skill/equipment for each race or class.
You do that by making the storyline the way you learn the skill or get the weapon, it wouldnt need extra skills to be created done that way.

Bad planning I call it, sry to be critical of such a great game but when you are less than perfect we notice it.

Edited by Gremlin, 15 October 2012 - 02:22 AM.


#41 obsie

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 02:37 AM

I actually thought a little bit about the personal story today and why a lot of us felt disconnected with it, and here's my poke at it: we never had an opportunity to sate our connections with many of the "important" NPCs, e.g. Traherne, the Order leaders, and other side characters like Efut, Velasquez, and the Priory 2nd in command. Aside from the NPC that you spend roughly 3 missions with, like Tybalt or Forgal for example, we got to learn quite a bit about them, we fought with them, we "played" together, but most importantly, it still felt as though we were diamonds in the rough just taking on every opportunity to impress our senior. The small jibs and jabs make that connection real. The story and chemistry between our characters felt good, happy; real.

Then it goes downhill. They kill off that connection we made, the first real connection we made in the entire course of the personal story thus far, the only character that we care about. I know a lot of writers like to kill characters that have strong impact on the viewer for evoking emotions, but really? In terms of length, this character lasted at most three chapters. And you go and write them off. And you bring in Trahearne, the most monotonous character ever created in history, and I put A LOT of blame on the voice actor, sorry, but you did a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE JOB in voicing this character. Trahearne was supposed to be our bridge to close that personal gap after we lost an important friend, but the bad writing combined with the shoddy attempt at voicing threw off the importance of this character.

Before I continue onto berating the Trahearne character, let me go back to the Orders and why I think most of us didn't care about the other Orders outside of the one we joined, and even then, why we didn't care much about the Order we joined. We never had the chance to learn about the other orders. At all. None. Aside from the first two quests that introduced us to the Orders, we never had any form of communication with them. I hate to bring up filler quests, but I think this is something that was lacking for the personal story. If we were able to do quests, fulfill something for the other Orders, learn about their history, we would have cared more. But no. The Orders were simply there for you to make a friend, for Anet to kill off that friend for story (failed btw), and for the Orders to create the Pact so the dragon could be defeated. I'm suddenly the highest rank in your Order? Great. But I still feel like a hired sword. Why exactly am I Warmaster again? And to top it off, this pretty much concludes the Order chapter of the personal story, never to be heard of again.

In terms of story, it would have theoretically worked -- on paper. In the game, it plays very badly. When the Pact was being formed, at most I cared was that I got more able bodies to defeat the dragon. I didn't care what this Order did or accomplished. I would have taken mercenaries for pay. I didn't know who was in the other Orders let alone my own Order. I never had the opportunity to connect with any of these characters.

In addition to this, the pacing of the personal story was off and I think this is how it went for many players: Assault on Claw Island, grind levels, forgetting much of the story (which was already weak on its own), your friend NPC is killed off leaving players bewildered, more grind for levels so you don't get 1-2 shotted in the next mission, trying to forget the bad writing and voice acting, defending the assault on LA, more grind, foreshadowing of Trahearne leading the Pact to victory, more grind, Orders create the Pact. Trahearne takes over. Everything is suddenly about Trahearne. Trahearne is our new master. We report directly to Trahearne.

It's exactly like the Kormir syndrome. It's absolutely invasive. Except even worse -- its much longer than the Kormir syndrome. We're stuck with this guy for the rest of the game. In OUR PERSONAL STORY. I don't like Trahearne, I don't like how he's stealing my character's spotlight. My character is supposed to be the attention whore, not Trahearne. They need to acknowledge my character, not shoving me aside. I'm the one leading US to victory, NOT Trahearne. He's my lackey riding MY thunder in MY PERSONAL STORY. And yet the story is about Trahearne. It's almost as if I were Batman and Robin is showing me up and taking credit for the job I'm doing. Same goes for the secondary NPCs. They simply don't give my character any acknowledgement other than my title. "<Title>, do this, do that." Very checklist style. Except I'm suddenly Commander. Great. Why exactly again? Then I learn that there are other Commanders. AWESOME. I'm just a statistic. A number. Great personal story.

At least with our partner in our Order we took the time to talk to each other, have conversations. These secondary characters don't even acknowledge me. At all. So why would I care about them? Or if they are killed off because they sacrificed themselves to save us? Something I disagree with by the way, because it makes me feel weaker. That I couldn't save them, even though I know I CAN. But I'm not given the chance. All this just because the creation of the Pact to defeat the dragon was written in the script. Good on paper, bad in practicality. Trahearne feels more like my boss than my friend.

tl;dr: Anet never found a way for us to care about their characters, AT ALL. And when they did, they killed them off.

#42 Gerroh

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 03:01 AM

Anyone who doesn't like Trahearne needs to play sylvari.
As a sylvari player it kept confusing me and making me wonder why people hated Trahearne so much, then one of my buddies pointed out that it was because they hadn't played sylvari and didn't get to know Trahearne prior to him becoming the leader of all of this.
Play as sylvari, forget about your hatred for Trahearne and act like you've never met him before and he'll seem much better, even a bit charming.

I don't think the player character being the great leader would be fitting, because as much as you all like to think you're the best of the best out there, you have to remember that according to the perspective of the world and the NPCs within it, you're just another adventurer. Perhaps a really good adventurer who out-adventures all others, but an adventurer nonetheless.
Hell, if you played as a sylvari your character is only a few weeks old, as in a character of any other race would still be in diapers.
Plus, I'm sick of all these RPGs making my character something incredibly amazing through some legendary BS. "Ah, yes, the escaped prisoner the prophecies told us about, for the fifteenth time", you guys don't get sick of that?

PS: Trahearne, Caithe, Tybalt, and Eir are the only likeable story characters if you ask me.

Edited by Gerroh, 15 October 2012 - 03:02 AM.


#43 ogrejd

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 03:11 AM

View PostGremlin, on 15 October 2012 - 01:29 AM, said:

Char Engineer character storyline, has one aspect that annoys me, I will try not to spoil it for you too much.
You invent a weapon, yet you do not get to use it outside of the storyline.
You get to choose how its developed ie siege type weapon or man portable turret but again you do not get it as a skill.

Has nothing to do with Engineers - that's the Iron Legion storyline.

#44 Theworldasd

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 03:18 AM

View PostGerroh, on 15 October 2012 - 03:01 AM, said:

"Ah, yes, the escaped prisoner the prophecies told us about, for the fifteenth time", you guys don't get sick of that?



Not really, no. Beats having a desk job and posting on forums because you're bored.

#45 Kattar

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 04:00 AM

No rant threads. It's in the rules. Also there are a lot of other threads on this topic, some of which are listed here.

You are fooling yourself, user. Nothing here is what it seems. ANet is not the plucky hero, Guru is not an evil empire, and this is not the grand arena.



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