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Sword/Pistol PVE Numbers?

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#1 Jackprevite

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 12:43 PM

Normally i run P/P or P/D with Shortbow, but i thought i'd give sword/pistol a try for dungeons based on a thread i read on this forum about 3-4 weeks ago:

I recall a post where an individual claimed to be getting pistol whips for up to 17-20k about a month or so ago. I know since then that pistol whip has been nerfed by 15% which changes his 17-20k range to ~14.5-17k, but i still haven't even broken 10k on a pistol whip. My power is right around 3000 and my crit% is about 55%, crit damage is about 90% ish. I have 30 points in deadly arts and critical strikes, as well as 10 points in trickery. I pick up the increased % crit chance and increased % damage dealt from behind as well, and i make sure to strike from the back side. Typically when in groups the mob has about 15-20% vulnerability.

I'm using full Exotic armor with Power, Precision and % Crit Damage, as well as Ruby Orichalcum Jewelry with exotic Beryl gems. I haven't been using food, but i know that i'd only be losing out on maybe 300 or so precision; last i checked, 21.6 points of precision [for me, at least] equates to 1% of crit percent.

I figure even with precision from the crit and ruby jewels i would only pick up an extra 10-15% crit?

Does anything throw any red flags to you other thieves? Perhaps i'm overlooking something, just looking for a second opinion.

Thanks!

This is the post i am eluding to.

#2 Balala

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 12:54 PM

I do a lot of CoF runs (level 75) and land about 9-10k on PW.
Guess on level 80 dungeon would be around 14-15k.

All depends on vulnerability stacks. First attack goes around 5k, after others members stack some vuln, it goes higher.
That comment about 20k must be with a lot of vuln.

#3 Tenofas

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 02:46 PM

Do you use Sigils as Zerj is suggesting?
Have you tried to Steal-->Pistol Whip?
Do you have the same traits he posted?

#4 Elan

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 03:56 PM

Most I ever got out of PW was around 15k before the nerf. No more then 12k post nerf. Sword pistol isn't as one dimensional as PW spam unless you make it do, however.  The weapons supply some incredible tools for functioning as a pseudo warrior by blind tanking, causing weakness, interrupting big hits, or just plain absorbing attacks with pistol whip's invulnerability frame. The shear utility of the build is really the big draw to the set IMO, though much of the time really will be just standing there hitting 3-3-3.

#5 JaeJae

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:39 AM

My power is around 2100 and i can hit 10-14k PW at Cursed Shore consistently .

The damage dealt varies on the amount of vulnerability stacks too.!


#6 shadowstorme1122

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:43 AM

View PostJaeJae, on 16 October 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

My power is around 2100 and i can hit 10-14k PW at Cursed Shore consistently .

The damage dealt varies on the amount of vulnerability stacks too.!


Wow... is that after the +150% damage buff after signet use? i have a power of 3k + crit chance of 55% crit damage of 40% , i can't barely hit 10k damage...

Edited by shadowstorme1122, 16 October 2012 - 07:43 AM.


#7 JaeJae

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:59 PM

View Postshadowstorme1122, on 16 October 2012 - 07:43 AM, said:

Wow... is that after the +150% damage buff after signet use? i have a power of 3k + crit chance of 55% crit damage of 40% , i can't barely hit 10k damage...

Nope, i can hit harder when the mob is below 20%? Due to the Executioner effect.

Probably it's something to due with your weapon ??


#8 Elan

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:09 PM

Too much passive crit chance IMO. You're giving something up for that, be it crit damage or power. Unless that 55% is after trait induced bonuses that is. With 80% or more crit damage it really starts to stack up even if you crit only 49-50% of the time.

#9 Balala

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:04 PM

Throw a 10 face dice up, 5 or lower you cut an arm off.
55% isnt too much.
80% is enough.

I dont want to spend all my stats into crit damage and dont crit all the time.
I would replace crit damage, if something else is missing, never precision.

#10 Elan

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:02 PM

Extremely excessive and somewhat unfitting metaphore aside, crit chance at the cost of base damage isn't good either. Same with survivability and crit damage boosting. There is a balance you need to strike. 100% crit chance with 0% additional crit damage and poor base damage means crits hit like wet toilet paper. If its a backstab setup your crits can be set to automatically happen reguardless of your %, and a pistol whip build hits multiple times per use. % additional crit damage is a huge thing the posted numbers indicate being ignored as it multiplies the damage any crit does. Your attack of 3k is great but you lose out a lot of damage by sacrificing 40% additional crit damage for only 5% greater odds the trade off is too great and easily explains the OP's lack of 14k damagd output.

tl;dr:

5% crit chance vs 40% additional crit damage is not a great trade off at all.

Edited by Elan, 16 October 2012 - 08:07 PM.


#11 Rachmani

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:52 PM

Why do the 2 of you even argue? Just do the math.
Both crit chance and crit damage are in direct relation to each other.
Rule of thumb: The higher your crit chance, the better + crit damage gets. So there is a point at which + crit damage is better than additional crit. Below that point it's the other way round.





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