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Glass Cannon Syndrome


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#1 ArlanKels

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 07:39 PM

There seems to be an infestation of glass cannons on Fort Aspenwood.

While I can not attest to whether or not this is an accurate tally, I feel that 99.9% of the people I do dungeons with build glass cannon.


It makes me cringe whenever I see a ranger die with a single hit from one of the boss guys.  It makes me weep when half my entire team is dropped immediately by a single AoE blob of blobbiness.

Am I alone in this?

#2 Lemuux

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:23 PM

you arent....

a couple of guildies and me, made a "party" of:  2 tanks/supports (guardians), 1 full support/dps elementalists, 1 dps mesmer/support , 1 full dps elementalist

we run everything pretty smoothly and barelly someone dies at all.

#3 Shamadamun

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:24 PM

If I had two wishes for GW2, it'd be to remove the viability of glass cannons...

... that, and increase Orb of Wrath speed :P

#4 BeyondThyGrave

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:01 AM

Honestly it's a weird issue. I hate it and see it all the time. Whenever it's brought up, people say learn to dodge. I agree dodging/kiting will increase your survivability but you aren't going to be able to evade every attack and I don't like having to revive the same person over and over again when I'm in a dungeon.

#5 Red_Falcon

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:40 AM

People don't realize you can be a cannon without being glass.
It's called knight's armor/wep and zerk everything else.

#6 deitiesforce

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:59 AM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 16 October 2012 - 03:40 AM, said:

People don't realize you can be a cannon without being glass.
It's called knight's armor/wep and zerk everything else.

that is so true! i used to use full zerker but now i use knight armor and zerker everything else and it is SO MUCH better and i still do beastly damage

#7 Gorgexpress

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:51 AM

It's a skill issue, not a build one. There are groups that run arah with 5 people in berserker's just fine.

#8 madmaxII

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 07:10 AM

I have no problem with people who bring full berserker gear as long as they manage to stay alive. At least they do damage then.

What really annoys me are people in full mf gear. You can't tell me that you contribute to your team's success in the same way as people using non-mf gear when you sacrifice ~1/3 of the possible stats for something that has zero impact on a fight.

#9 ilr

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 07:49 AM

Pugged an AC on ranger and found it rather hilarious that even though the rest of the team was 3 Guardians & 1 Warrior, I had all the Aggro on every mob in every single fight.   ...for the uninitiated who don't know about the A.I., this means I had higher Toughness than all 4 melees.

On the other hand, mobs were also completely ignoring my Archetodos as well so maybe my own rating is so high or bugged that Anet needs to tweak the AI one moretime...

#10 Nox_Aeterna

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 02:50 PM

View PostmadmaxII, on 17 October 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

I have no problem with people who bring full berserker gear as long as they manage to stay alive. At least they do damage then.

What really annoys me are people in full mf gear. You can't tell me that you contribute to your team's success in the same way as people using non-mf gear when you sacrifice ~1/3 of the possible stats for something that has zero impact on a fight.

While i agree that this is most likely the reason so many glass cannons are created , i also think it is foolish to consider anyone using it bad.

A good experienced player full MF gear is more useful than a newcomer not MF any day.

#11 Caledore

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:01 PM

View PostNox_Aeterna, on 17 October 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

While i agree that this is most likely the reason so many glass cannons are created , i also think it is foolish to consider anyone using it bad.

A good experienced player full MF gear is more useful than a newcomer not MF any day.

True, but that same player would be much more effective using non-MF gear. I don't think using MF gear is 'bad' necessarily, but it IS selfish. A player using MF is limiting their own effectiveness - and thus the effectiveness of the group as a whole - for entirely selfish reasons of gaining loot.

Selfish play isn't anything new or uncommon in MMOs, granted, but I find it irritating when people do something to the detriment of the group just to get a chance at better loot for themselves.

#12 AndrewSX

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:04 PM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 16 October 2012 - 03:40 AM, said:

People don't realize you can be a cannon without being glass.
It's called knight's armor/wep and zerk everything else.

This.

Love Knight armor - just pair it with right accessories (berserk/valk/rampag) and you're up to be a nice Thoughness heavy cannon.

#13 masmer

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 05:23 PM

View PostAndrewSX, on 17 October 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

This.

Love Knight armor - just pair it with right accessories (berserk/valk/rampag) and you're up to be a nice Thoughness heavy cannon.

The loss of power and crit damage is much larger than you think. Not to say that melee wearing knights/zerk is a bad thing, but it is a 100% complete waste on ranged, especially safe ranged classes like rangers/eles/engis.

View PostNox_Aeterna, on 17 October 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

A good experienced player full MF gear is more useful than a newcomer not MF any day.

MF gear is bad. You'll realize it sooner or later. I also think gimping your character like that would ruin the fun for me. I love being able to carry dungeons.

View PostCaledore, on 17 October 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

True, but that same player would be much more effective using non-MF gear. I don't think using MF gear is 'bad' necessarily, but it IS selfish. A player using MF is limiting their own effectiveness - and thus the effectiveness of the group as a whole - for entirely selfish reasons of gaining loot.

Selfish play isn't anything new or uncommon in MMOs, granted, but I find it irritating when people do something to the detriment of the group just to get a chance at better loot for themselves.

I'm glad you said that. Everytime I see a post about "best class for damage or tanking or healing ect" I see someone say "a good player on any class" and I think to myself, huh so I'd beat my engis DPS on my necro? Nope!

I also think it's worth noting that the yellows you gain are worth less than 15s a pop. You couldn't pay me 3 yellows a run to intentionally lower my DPS as that would ruin my fun.

Edited by masmer, 17 October 2012 - 05:25 PM.


#14 AndrewSX

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 05:23 PM

View Postmasmer, on 17 October 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

The loss of power and crit damage is much larger than you think. Not to say that melee wearing knights/zerk is a bad thing, but it is a 100% complete waste on ranged, especially safe ranged classes like rangers/eles/engis.

Matter of playstyle i guess - i still prefer a more balanced approach allows much more flexibility than not being "the guy who dies in a sneeze". I know that usual response is "Dodge - L2P - just don't get hit", but that's not my style, even if i do dodge stuff - know my class - rarely get under 50% hp, i just prefer another combo.

Especially for DGs.

Edited by AndrewSX, 17 October 2012 - 05:24 PM.


#15 ArlanKels

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 07:42 PM

In my opinion there is no such thing as a "safe ranged" class.  Not with the amount of stuns, immobilizes, ranged capable creatures out there.  Take Sorrow's embrace exploration for example, there is a ton of AoE being thrown around by mortar cannons or god forbid you play Path 2 with the golems...one of which whips AoE's around like crazy.

IMHO you are going to get hit, you are going to get hit hard and it's just a matter of time.

#16 Red_Falcon

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 07:45 PM

View PostAndrewSX, on 17 October 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

Matter of playstyle i guess - i still prefer a more balanced approach allows much more flexibility than not being "the guy who dies in a sneeze". I know that usual response is "Dodge - L2P - just don't get hit", but that's not my style, even if i do dodge stuff - know my class - rarely get under 50% hp, i just prefer another combo.

Especially for DGs.

No need to justify yourself, you are right.

I have 2 full exotic sets on my Warrior, one being zerk the other being knight.
I did all sorts of tests and ultimately the damage difference between zerk armor and knight's armor - when everything else is zerk - is negligible.
The 20% damage reduction you get from Knight's armor is definitely not.

If people want to go glass let them, more kills for us ;)

#17 Dokem

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 07:59 PM

Toughness, vitality or hybrid? What is more important?

#18 exp1os1v3

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:04 PM

View Postilr, on 17 October 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

Pugged an AC on ranger and found it rather hilarious that even though the rest of the team was 3 Guardians & 1 Warrior, I had all the Aggro on every mob in every single fight.   ...for the uninitiated who don't know about the A.I., this means I had higher Toughness than all 4 melees.

On the other hand, mobs were also completely ignoring my Archetodos as well so maybe my own rating is so high or bugged that Anet needs to tweak the AI one moretime...

That's not quite how aggro works...it's more of a random thing.  Tests have been done that show that the mobs either aggro randomly, or take in so many factors at once that it's nearly random.  Still, it's strange that the mobs chose to attack you the whole time...

#19 Edge

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:09 PM

Berserker gear is still the most popular option at the moment. For a while it seriously toppled other stat types in terms of costs. Vials of Powerful Blood were selling for 21s and other T6 mats for 1-2s.

I run a full set of berserker gear, and I don't have problems with staying alive. I'll only die in dungeons when the entire team wipes. It goes along with the class you chose though, I think berserker is more suited for warriors and thieves. A guardian using berserker gear for example is going to have problems. As a thief, my class is delicate anyway and I rely on evading attacks period. Shadowstep skills do this perfectly.

With the right trait distribution the thief also has arguably the best DPS in the game with berserker gear.

I tried builds with other stat types and I found the effects to be meager, I don't need vitality or toughness because I don't stand in place and get hit. The extra defense will let me take 2 or 3 more hits? No thanks. In WvW a class like the thief can destroy other players as a glass cannon. People start to run away from you because your starting attack damage is so high, and they don't realize that you get increased damage and a crit boost when attacking from behind or the side. I've won so many 3 on 1 situations with ease, though it honestly depends what you're up against.

Edited by Edge, 17 October 2012 - 08:16 PM.


#20 Gilles VI

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:17 PM

View Postexp1os1v3, on 17 October 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

That's not quite how aggro works...it's more of a random thing.  Tests have been done that show that the mobs either aggro randomly, or take in so many factors at once that it's nearly random.  Still, it's strange that the mobs chose to attack you the whole time...

It's not that weird.
When I do dungeon runs with guildies I can almost choose when I will take aggro from a mob or not (I'm playing support guardian) and it's very easy to keep the boss focussed on you.

#21 Lastchime

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:19 PM

View Postilr, on 17 October 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

Pugged an AC on ranger and found it rather hilarious that even though the rest of the team was 3 Guardians & 1 Warrior, I had all the Aggro on every mob in every single fight.   ...for the uninitiated who don't know about the A.I., this means I had higher Toughness than all 4 melees.

On the other hand, mobs were also completely ignoring my Archetodos as well so maybe my own rating is so high or bugged that Anet needs to tweak the AI one moretime...

  I get this all the time on my mesmer too, makes me sad cause aside from boss specials I don't get to spawn clones on blocks and just end up dazing/blinding stuff

EDIT: oh sorry I thought you meant they avoided you, cause they avoid me like the plague I always attributed it to being a harder target.

Edited by Lastchime, 17 October 2012 - 08:21 PM.


#22 AndrewSX

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:41 PM

View PostDokem, on 17 October 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

Toughness, vitality or hybrid? What is more important?

Well, it's up to

-your build
-your prof
-what you want to do
-how do you play.

If there's one thing that GW2 teached me, tho, is that the ultimate best way to tackle the content (manly dg, but wvw too) is being able to adapt. If you go with a single kind full armor/weapon/ccessory/upgrades, you'll be excellent at something, but as soon as game trows at you something else you're in trouble.
Now, berserk armor itself is fine - but i wouldn't get it as first and unique set. If you already have a more good for all set (like asd said, Knight or Valk istead of Berserk), then go for it: when situation allows you to do so, put up the DPS gear - no problem.
If you're in shortage of money, getting first hard worked exotic set, go for versatile stuff - you won't be stellar dmg or unkillable guy maybe, but you won't be the "die in a sneeze" or "deals so low dps that is like doing dg in 4" guy.


Then there are lots of little different considerations due to different build/prof - a guardian should worry first for the vit rather than thoug, while a nec will probably be perfectly fine w/o boosting vit, but surely get a lot more survivable by boosting thoug - first random example crossed my mind.

#23 ilr

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:10 AM

View Postexp1os1v3, on 17 October 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

That's not quite how aggro works...it's more of a random thing.  Tests have been done that show that the mobs either aggro randomly, or take in so many factors at once that it's nearly random.  Still, it's strange that the mobs chose to attack you the whole time...
WRONG.  They will always "prefer" the ranged character with the highest Tough/Vit who pulled them first.  Or didn't you read the part when I said every mob was chasing me?  ...every time?  That's not an exaggeration.  That's not within the bounds of "unlucky" RNG scope.  That's Aggro working the way it was designed to work and me and my guildmates "utilize" the hell out of it on our staff guardians for most Dungeons.

Edited by ilr, 18 October 2012 - 03:13 AM.


#24 Di-Dorval

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:15 AM

Aye, theres only dps/MF sets for some dungeons armors.

#25 Nox_Aeterna

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 05:11 AM

View Postmasmer, on 17 October 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

MF gear is bad. You'll realize it sooner or later. I also think gimping your character like that would ruin the fun for me. I love being able to carry dungeons.

Well , most of your arguments are simple how MF ruin your fun when you use it... then dont use it , problem solved to you, nobody is saying people are forced to use MF.

The real thing here is how people are complaining about other people using MF.

Honestly i find that lame , we could begin then to ban low lvl/newcomers and so on.

What is the difference really on a player who does less because of his gear and one who does less for other reasons? To me it matters nothing why he is doing less , it is not my problem really , if it is gear/skill/knowledge.

If i began to go after MF people , i would go after all the other people who does less dont matter the reason.

#26 Princess Fatora

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 06:22 AM

MF people are the only people that, I think, should be banned from group simply because they expect to get carried.

A low level newcomer that isn't full exotic and that is doing their best and making an effort >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 80 person in MF gear that expects to be carried and thinks it's okay to give les than their group, yet get more rewards.

M/F people in pugs are douchebags 100% of the time. Just a matter of decency, really. Thankfully most of them tend to rack up repair bills nicely, since people tend to stop ressing them the tirst time they brag about their Kewl Lewt they get through MF. Teaches the lesson nicely.

#27 LithePanther

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 06:29 AM

I think some people in this thread need to get off their high horses.

It's starting to sound like gearscore requirement in WoW, except here it's no MF gear.

#28 madmaxII

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:22 AM

View PostNox_Aeterna, on 18 October 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

The real thing here is how people are complaining about other people using MF.

Honestly i find that lame , we could begin then to ban low lvl/newcomers and so on.

What is the difference really on a player who does less because of his gear and one who does less for other reasons? To me it matters nothing why he is doing less , it is not my problem really , if it is gear/skill/knowledge.

If i began to go after MF people , i would go after all the other people who does less dont matter the reason.

If you pick MF you willingly sacrifice effectiveness. Tons of effectiveness. Someone who has a full masterwork (green) equipment should have more stats in total than someone who runs full MF exotics. Give the the masterwork dude an exotic weapon and he is miles ahead. I am too lazy to do the maths right now but here are the stat values for the different rarities if someone wants to calculate it. Look at the table and think about the relative strength of exotic MF gear.
That said, it is almost impossible to have gear that is worse than MF. Even the poorest players can afford a better one.

As far as noobs are concerned they don't play bad on purpose. They are inexperienced and they need some time to learn. That's okay. Just give them some guidance and it get's better. People using MF gear usually know exactly that the team would be more efficient if they had other items.

#29 Minion

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 12:06 PM

I play the most glass cannon there is possible; absolutely no +health or +toughness modifiers. Why do I rarely die? Stealth, dodging, utilities that add extra evades. The important thing in this game is evasion+damage. The damage taken isn't important, especially in dungeons as it's almost always going to down you in two hits. The best thing to do is smash before you get smashed.

#30 redcomyn

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:29 PM

Reading through this thread, I have been trying to figure out what "MF" means through context, but I am coming up blank. Some kind of armor I think. What is 'MF"?




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