39 replies to this topic

[Xhelin]

I'm stumped. I honestly cannot find a counter to the Mesmer Portal dilemma. Almost everything in this game has a counter action - I'm tired of losing game just because a team can jump from point to point within seconds.

I usually run with 3 friends and a random and the only annoying comp we've fought are teams that use Mesmer portals. Before anyone comes out with a L2P comment, that's what I'm doing. I came here on the forums to shed some light on this topic.

I don't expect the only answer to be "run a mesmer" because that a really bad game model on gw2's side... for every comp to have a mesmer, just to be cheap.

[UssjTrunks]

Run a thief.

[Xhelin]

Run a thief? How does that help when a mesmer can port a whole team to a Node that'ss getting Contested. Roflstomp the 2 people there and return to their original position..

[Monumension]

He's trolling, don't roll a thief. Mesmer has been my main since day one and to be honest thieves are free kills right now. If you're looking to counter portals that are porting in several people at once, there really is nothing you can do besides lay down all of your aoe's(and marks/wells if you are a necro) on that portal. After that its GG, if you get wiped at the point and they go back through the portal go back to that same point again since they are all across the map anyways.

Rolling thief is never an alternative to losing, it is the epitome of losing.

Edited by Monumension, 16 October 2012 - 03:50 AM.

[Azure Skye]

I just got potal bomb in WvW before I'm writing this post. I wish they nerf it to same range as firestorm and other aoe. They are radar range at the moment. It give us time to see them and give us a chance to counter it. >.>

Edited by Azure Skye, 16 October 2012 - 04:00 AM.

[Featherman]

Azure Skye, on 16 October 2012 - 03:58 AM, said:

I just got potal bomb in WvW before I'm writing this post. I wish they nerf it to same range as firestorm and other aoe. They are radar range at the moment. It give us time to see them and give us a chance to counter it. >.>

That reminds me. A guildmate of mine, also a Mesmer, was able to solo siege the Dreaming Bay keep in our borderlands map after cosntant use of portals and hiding. Yeah... something needs to be done alright.

[Xhelin]

I main a guardian so I often try to save my knock-backs + sanc for Mesmer ports but that's not enough to keep whole groups from porting in and out.

I think the only option there is here is to have someone camp the Mesmer's body as they spawns and keep him out of node fights - but that just means one less person doing anything to help the team.

(I only do tournaments so I cant speak for WvW)

I'd love to have a Mesmer on our team but its stupid if every team that wants to be competitive NEEDS a Mesmer.

[off3nc3]

Monumension, on 16 October 2012 - 03:49 AM, said:

He's trolling, don't roll a thief. Mesmer has been my main since day one and to be honest thieves are free kills right now. If you're looking to counter portals that are porting in several people at once, there really is nothing you can do besides lay down all of your aoe's(and marks/wells if you are a necro) on that portal. After that its GG, if you get wiped at the point and they go back through the portal go back to that same point again since they are all across the map anyways.

Rolling thief is never an alternative to losing, it is the epitome of losing.

Thief is still the best roamer atm , its obvious to me you only fought a few thiefs d/d or p/w builds , my tpvp build can destroy any mesmer 1v1 and mostly every other class if it doesnt stack a serious amount of bleeds. Mesmer is good for the utility portal on some maps hint ( foefire, kylo ). Anet is still balancing the game and im 99% sure they will eventually touch the portal sooner or later.

[Luxiom]

Every-time someone complains about portals they make it sound like its range is unlimited, that it has no cooldown and that it stays open indefinitely.

This is not the case. The range is about "radar range" which in sPvP is far enough to cover the distance from center to side node so I'll grant you that the range in sPvP isn't a limiting factor for the Mesmer and his team.

When placing a portal entry you have 60 seconds to place the exit and create the transporter. When the exit is placed, the skill go on cooldown (60 seconds) and it stays open for just 10 seconds (tooltip is wrong, see wiki).

Also. the portal before activation is a big subtle pink "pool" on the ground and can easily be spotted. When activated it is glows brightly as hell and is a big AoE beacon! It also take about 1-2 seconds for the activation animation to finish before the portal is usable, so with quick reactions it is possible to nuke it without seeing the Mesmer coming first (they do have stealth after all ).

The main thing that bothers me is when people say that it can be used to portal the whole team from on place to the next, stomp you and then port back. As the portal stays open for 10 seconds you shouldn't simply die in that timeframe unless it really is a 1v5. A 2v4 should last longer then 10 seconds, especially when they all come in in a nice tight group to AoE and CC.

A main a Guardian and play on a average team that can win tournaments just fine with and without a Mesmer. Sometimes we DO have a mesmer in the team, but then we only use portal on Kylo for the treb.

Mesmers are strong, so is portal. And the whole "meta game" thingy will always make it so that certain classes and build are "mandatory" at high level play until someone figures out a better way of doing it. Right now the meta is bunker guardian and Mesmer but it won't last forever. And even if it does sPvP is still balanced in the sense that every team has instant access to everything. It will never be the case that you can roll five random classes with five random build just because you feel like and still expect to win. That would be a rather shallow game if coordination and synergy didn't matter at all.

Oh! The main trick to use portals in sPvP tough is that if you place the entry and never place the exit before the time runs out (60 seconds) the skill DO NOT go on cooldown. This is where it gets interesting. Defend two points and have the mesmers switch places every 60 seconds

(not talking at all about WvW here, portals in WvW are amazing and I love my guildmates for playing Mesmers, still don't think it is a balance issue tough, it just makes the WvW landscape more interesting)

Edited by Luxiom, 16 October 2012 - 07:06 AM.

[Gaaroth]

Easy fix: make portals destoyable or usable for both sides.
Enjoy

Edited by Gaaroth, 16 October 2012 - 09:16 AM.

[Lordkrall]

Gaaroth, on 16 October 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

Easy fix: make portals destoyable or usable for both sides.
Enjoy

Which would make them completely useless.

[Gaaroth]

Lordkrall, on 16 October 2012 - 09:23 AM, said:

Which would make them completely useless.

if you put them destoyable with a fair amount of hp it doesn't make them useless IMO, you just need to be fast, put them in non obvious places etc etc

[Lordkrall]

Gaaroth, on 16 October 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

if you put them destoyable with a fair amount of hp it doesn't make them useless IMO, you just need to be fast, put them in non obvious places etc etc

I would say the 10 second time limit means you need to be fast anyway.
10 seconds does go by very fast.

[Dirame]

Xhelin, on 16 October 2012 - 02:58 AM, said:

Run a thief? How does that help when a mesmer can port a whole team to a Node that'ss getting Contested. Roflstomp the 2 people there and return to their original position..

When they port, send the other members of your team to cap the other point. You try to stall as long as you can on the node where you're fighting the 5 v 2 giving your team the chance to cap the other two nodes. It's easier said than done but it works if your team can be coordinated enough.

[Lastchime]

Gaaroth, on 16 October 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

Easy fix: make portals destoyable or usable for both sides.
Enjoy

A destroyable glamour? It takes a utility slot which is costly enough, for a 48 sec c/d  (traited) ability that stays useful for ~12 seconds.

[Drekor]

Lastchime, on 16 October 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

A destroyable glamour? It takes a utility slot which is costly enough, for a 48 sec c/d  (traited) ability that stays useful for ~12 seconds.

Yea having something destroyable on a long cooldown would be terrible! What's next? Lower the range and make it only transport the mesmer back? They'd probably even change the name to summon flesh wurm or something stupid.

[Athletic]

Dirame, on 16 October 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

When they port, send the other members of your team to cap the other point. You try to stall as long as you can on the node where you're fighting the 5 v 2 giving your team the chance to cap the other two nodes. It's easier said than done but it works if your team can be coordinated enough.

They won't all leave ofcourse. A point being contested is usually only 1 person, so the mesmer (being one of the strongest 1V1 professions) can usually take care of it by himself. The bunkers staying on the other nodes will survive more then long enough for help to return.

Edited by Athletic, 16 October 2012 - 05:20 PM.

[Dirame]

Athletic, on 16 October 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

They won't all leave ofcourse. A point being contested is usually only 1 person, so the mesmer (being one of the strongest 1V1 professions) can usually take care of it by himself. The bunkers staying on the other nodes will survive more then long enough for help to return.

Well the OP seemed like he was talking about more than one person contesting a node and then getting their butts wiped because a bunch of people ported to the node. In that scenario, my earlier statement is what I would propose.

[Mr Goop]

Run a staff Elementalist. If they are good they can support middle and keep the treb down the whole game.

[Trishian]

rly.. why just dont make it like it should be:

MAKE IT ONLY WORK IN ONE WAY, why on the earth ppl enter "Portal-Exit" and are moved to "Portal-Enter". Make it last 30s but ppl can only travel Enter>Exit and problem solved, its still be used to supprise enemy, but not for abuse 2 points assult at one time.

[M00nfish]

In my opinion the worst cases of portals are: porting and army through it in WvWvW, that stays invisible because of culling. And instant treb-repairs.

For these two things I recommend: A limit of 5 people for each portal to teleport through (mesmer portal bombs still possible if a mesmer portals more mesmers, but this delays it and requires coordination

And drop all bundles when entering a portal (especually the repair kit).

The standard-way to use portals in sPvP, as a tunnel to a node, is OK in my opinion. It is strong as hell, but you can work around it.

[Psikerlord]

I only just realised how long the range on portal is when i saw it in action in a tPvP. It is stupidly good with a well organised team. It needs a nerf, maybe....  longer CD, or only one person can travel through it, or shorter range, or make it destructible... or a combo of these. I dunno. But it is too good right now... esp that bug about if you dont lay the second portal, it doesnt go on cooldown....

[YourBadKarma]

Lordkrall, on 16 October 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

I would say the 10 second time limit means you need to be fast anyway.
10 seconds does go by very fast.

If by 10 seconds you mean 60, then yeah.

[Wifflebottom]

Can you throw Necro wells onto the portal? Never seen it before and I know nothing about necros, so I have no idea how effective it'd be.

[Lordkrall]

YourBadKarma, on 01 November 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

If by 10 seconds you mean 60, then yeah.

The portal connection is only open for 10 seconds.
The first portal might be there for 60, but you still only have 10 seconds to actually use it when both are up.

[YourBadKarma]

Lordkrall, on 01 November 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

The portal connection is only open for 10 seconds.
The first portal might be there for 60, but you still only have 10 seconds to actually use it when both are up.

You have 10 seconds to capitalize on it, but you have 60 seconds of choosing when to. How is that forcing somebody to be quick about using it? Limiting how long you can use it, and forcing them to be quick about using it, are two very different things.

Edited by YourBadKarma, 01 November 2012 - 10:33 PM.

[Shadowrose]

disable that skill in spvp.

fixed...? mesmers won't suddenly become worthless because of that.

[Nabuko Darayon]

How to counter the mezmer is simple. make an organized team and a mezmer and do the same thing. There's only 1 counter against organized team - a better organized team.

Try using the portal with the pugs, you'll see no one will listen or do what you want to do.

[Killyox]

Lordkrall, on 01 November 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

The portal connection is only open for 10 seconds.
The first portal might be there for 60, but you still only have 10 seconds to actually use it when both are up.

actually it's 15s with 20sec displayed on tooltip

[Featherman]

Nabuko Darayon, on 10 November 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

How to counter the mezmer is simple. make an organized team and a mezmer and do the same thing. There's only 1 counter against organized team - a better organized team.

Try using the portal with the pugs, you'll see no one will listen or do what you want to do.

Wouldn't that make the game too centered on Mesmers? No one profession should change the metagame that much.