84 replies to this topic

[BrotatoSoup]

I have been following this guide for a while and I am really enjoying the Sword+Dagger playstyle. I have a quick question though. What crit chance should I aim for?

I am currently wearing full Berserker's armor+weapons with Valkyrie trinkets+jewels. Although the extra vit has considerably boosted my survivability, it was at the expense of a lower crit chance (around 44% I believe).

I can plan around my runes (Eagle/Ranger), sigils (Accuracy) and consumables to boost my precision. But I want to know if there's a sweet spot/minimum figure I can strive for.

[Shatteredz]

BrotatoSoup, on 08 November 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

I have been following this guide for a while and I am really enjoying the Sword+Dagger playstyle. I have a quick question though. What crit chance should I aim for?

I am currently wearing full Berserker's armor+weapons with Valkyrie trinkets+jewels. Although the extra vit has considerably boosted my survivability, it was at the expense of a lower crit chance (around 44% I believe).

I can plan around my runes (Eagle/Ranger), sigils (Accuracy) and consumables to boost my precision. But I want to know if there's a sweet spot/minimum figure I can strive for.

Personally i got 49%(berserker jewels, toughness+vit+power boots+head+shoulders+weapons, berserker body+legs+hands).
After 49% precision gets less effective(at least, what I have heard, not sure) and 49% is a good crit chance for me. Also, I use rune of the thief, but thats more because of a lack of money.

So i would say ~50% is good to aim for. You always have 5% more crit above 90%hp, and 7% when flanking/behind, along with the random fury buff, you will be hitting and critting like a trick with still a decent amount of survivability.

[skuko]

i'm using s/d for leveling my thief alt (just for the sake of learning the skill patterns for later pvp) - so far level 22 and it's quite good with the daze lockdown and aoe sword autoattack.

[BrotatoSoup]

Shatteredz, on 08 November 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

Personally i got 49%(berserker jewels, toughness+vit+power boots+head+shoulders+weapons, berserker body+legs+hands).
After 49% precision gets less effective(at least, what I have heard, not sure) and 49% is a good crit chance for me. Also, I use rune of the thief, but thats more because of a lack of money.

So i would say ~50% is good to aim for. You always have 5% more crit above 90%hp, and 7% when flanking/behind, along with the random fury buff, you will be hitting and critting like a trick with still a decent amount of survivability.

Thanks! I'll try to change my rune set to bump my crit chance a bit. I'm only using Ruby Orbs at the moment since I can't afford the Scholar runes.

[EDYAN]

Shatteredz, on 08 November 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

Personally i got 49%(berserker jewels, toughness+vit+power boots+head+shoulders+weapons, berserker body+legs+hands).
After 49% precision gets less effective(at least, what I have heard, not sure) and 49% is a good crit chance for me. Also, I use rune of the thief, but thats more because of a lack of money.

So i would say ~50% is good to aim for. You always have 5% more crit above 90%hp, and 7% when flanking/behind, along with the random fury buff, you will be hitting and critting like a trick with still a decent amount of survivability.

Whats your HP and Toughness with your gear?

[Exylia]

Is it worth to use a full berserker's set if the crit dmg cap is 80? (from equip)
Isn't it better to stack other stats like vit\tough?

[Kutsus]

Exylia, on 10 November 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Is it worth to use a full berserker's set if the crit dmg cap is 80? (from equip)
Isn't it better to stack other stats like vit\tough?

Every single piece of berserker's gear provides a benefit to crit damage.

[EDYAN]

Exylia, on 10 November 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Is it worth to use a full berserker's set if the crit dmg cap is 80? (from equip)
Isn't it better to stack other stats like vit\tough?

There's a crit DMG cap?

[Exylia]

Kutsus, on 10 November 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Every single piece of berserker's gear provides a benefit to crit damage.

Isnt it capped to 134%? (84 from items)

EDYAN, on 10 November 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

There's a crit DMG cap?

i think yes..

[Mursie]

so the final build i chose was 10/30/15/15/0

the extra stealth second and the reduced cnd cost i felt was worth it for the 15 points in DA.  I thought at one point u were trying this.  thoughts?

[Shatteredz]

EDYAN, on 10 November 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

Whats your HP and Toughness with your gear?

14,4k hp, 2,2k armor, 1,1k toughness

[Engel Jorgenson]

I'm using something very similar actually and it does wonder in both PvE and WvW. Tough I always keep my bag opened on the right side of my screen and often switch weapons depending of the situation. A build like this is good for roaming but I found it excels in big zergs. I'm very glassy but I dodge and kite a lot so no particular problem. I've read some of you are in the guild Ruin. Lol, ... we are on the same battleground actually. I'm on Vizunah and my character's name is Astrid Ferguson. Maybe we will cross daggers ^^.

Edited by Engel Jorgenson, 15 November 2012 - 07:57 PM.

[Glavius]

How viable is Sword/Dagger after the 50% "dancing dagger" nerf?

[Vexd]

omg this helped me so much!

Before i was running around with 30 in Deadly Arts and Critical Strikes, 10 in Shadow Arts to get the blinding powder on low HP, but the whole time i was like "wish i could dodge more"

then it just clicked, after reading this, going 15 into Acrobatics and using the food buff means you can dodge more AND i get more power from the stacks of might AND condition damage so im dodging more, getting speed buff, AND i do mroe damage than i was before!

cheers! xD

[Glavius]

I'm having some trouble vs. veteran mobs with this build. Is it me sucking, or is the build abit weak for that?

[Scarnah]

Glavius, on 26 November 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

I'm having some trouble vs. veteran mobs with this build. Is it me sucking, or is the build abit weak for that?

It depends on the specifics of your build.  The strategy oh how you actually play depends pretty much on how you allocated the 30 points that go into Shadow Arts and Acrobatics.  I've been running 30 in Shadow Arts and have no trouble with veterans by going into stealth whenever I can.

I plan on switching to 15 Shadow Arts and 15 Acrobatics, however, which I anticipate will give me the ability to both dodge and stealth frequently.  Don't forget about the evade on both sword and shortbow #3.  

Having full exotics and getting the timing on evading right helps a ton also.

[Taleon]

Any one have some confirmation on this Crit Dmg cap ?
If so I would like to see some information it..

As for my build, I run a number of different variations from 10/30/15/15/0 to 0/30/25/15/0 to a 0/30/20/20/0 and others in between
Each are more dependent on what my role is going to be in Wv3 that night.  SB is always used, and normally S/D but on occasions D/D.  Again, it all depends on what is expected out of me each night.

[erick5876]

I just wanted to say THANK YOU for this build. It is everything I have been looking for. Just about everything I had read before recommended S/P or D/D with 30 in Deadly Arts & Crit Strikes, and 5 in Trickery. While it worked well for SPVP, but I felt it lacking in WvW. I have found that your build works rather well in most situations. You are billing it as a Solo / Roamer, but I find it's rather useful in group fights also. As usual with this class, it's all about tactics and understanding your role. Before, in group fights I was basically reduced to a combat medic & used the short bow for everything unless I happened to get a single target away from the main group. Now, I find myself actively selecting specific targets in the opposing group, and I'm not afraid to wade right in. All the dodges & shadow steps make it real easy to get out. It's also really easy to walk around the perimeter of a battle, and pick off anyone trying to run or heal. It's the perfect skirmisher for taking camps or smaller group fights, which I find way more enjoyable than the zerg anyway. So, thanks again!

[funkybudda]

I also fell in love with the S/D build with this thread, however I cant seem to reproduce the damage numbers showcased in OP's video. I am not using runes of scholars, maybe that's the main reason. I am currently in all beserker gears with divinity. In the video he seems to always crit  for 4k to 6k, my highest numbers are in the 4k to 5k range mostly. Maybe it's just a highlight reel

[Asparagus Reflex]

I love the "slightly more tanky s/d build. However, I have 2 questions:

1. Is this build still viable (the build was written a while ago)
2. Could you use pistol/pistol instead of the shortbow or would that take away some survivablity?

[Blaidez]

With all the nerfs  and updates I'm wondering if the information in the OP is still up to date? Also I'm having some trouble understanding the gear break down; for optimal survivability and crits would making all gear pieces numbered under 13 be berserker and gear over 13 soldier be the way to go? I don't want to waste time and gold getting it unless I know it's what I want. I'm primarily a d/d and sb Thief focusing on WvW. I most enjoy running solo or with a couple of people to disrupt supply lines and camps. Hoping you could post your thoughts on this. Thanks

Edited by Blaidez, 30 January 2013 - 10:53 AM.

[Yamirashi]

I believe the OP has quit playing, or at least quit posting here.

I ran this build for a while with a Knight/Valk mix, switched to a Carrion/Rabid mix P/D build, then full Carrion and then quit my thief. Leveled a Guardian then switched to Necro then back to Guardian. Just in the past week came back to my thief and started gearing him up again this time with Berserker/Soldier and I can say DON'T GO KNIGHT/VALK. The difference in Power alone makes this build work so much better.

For the gear question:

Helm, Legs, Rings
Chest
Accessories
--------------------------------
Amulet, Weapons
Shoulders, Gloves, Boots
Jewels


That's your basic split if you want to go half and half... Top side is Soldier and bottom is Berserker. If you want to go more Damage move the line up, if you want more survival move the line down.

That's where I recommend starting if you're starting from scratch. If you're already full Berserker just put the line at the top and move it down till you get the survival you want. If you're for some reason full Soldier (much less common) you can start the the line at the bottom and work your way up till you have the dmg you want.

I would personally recommend at some point working up a full set of both, then you can move the line up and down on the fly for the situation.

Edited by Yamirashi, 25 February 2013 - 07:12 PM.

[Quack530]

Yamirashi, on 25 February 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

I believe the OP has quit playing, or at least quit posting here.

I ran this build for a while with a Knight/Valk mix, switched to a Carrion/Rabid mix P/D build, then full Carrion and then quit my thief. Leveled a Guardian then switched to Necro then back to Guardian. Just in the past week came back to my thief and started gearing him up again this time with Berserker/Soldier and I can say DON'T GO KNIGHT/VALK. The difference in Power alone makes this build work so much better.

For the gear question:

Helm, Legs, Rings
Chest
Accessories
--------------------------------
Amulet, Weapons
Shoulders, Gloves, Boots
Jewels


That's your basic split if you want to go half and half... Top side is Soldier and bottom is Berserker. If you want to go more Damage move the line up, if you want more survival move the line down.

That's where I recommend starting if you're starting from scratch. If you're already full Berserker just put the line at the top and move it down till you get the survival you want. If you're for some reason full Soldier (much less common) you can start the the line at the bottom and work your way up till you have the dmg you want.

I would personally recommend at some point working up a full set of both, then you can move the line up and down on the fly for the situation.

I read on the official forums that for thieves many people find that P/T/H is better than P/T/V.  Can you confirm or deny this?

Also, thanks very much for your input, I've been looking for experienced ppl's gearing opinions!

[Vysander]

Quack530, on 28 February 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

I read on the official forums that for thieves many people find that P/T/H is better than P/T/V.  Can you confirm or deny this?

Also, thanks very much for your input, I've been looking for experienced ppl's gearing opinions!

took me a second, but you mean power/toughness/healing right?

no.

I mean, maybe you could make a healing power heavy (though, where you get heavy healing power while still doing good dmg...) thief work, with some of the on crit food heals and on crit/hit traits, and signet of malice... but why? We dont have the AoE heals to benefit other people. We don't scale that well with healing. There really isn't a point in going a healing power spec unless you can heal other people (Refuge doesn't count).

I guess i could see it being more effective (maybe, like, the tiniest maybe i can muster) then having health because of our low starting health pool and lackluster vit scaling. The argument could be made you would heal faster then you would lose health (very likely true using the healing while invis trait), but then the much more sensible argument is that the thief is not a sponge, and is incredibly effective at doing nothing when played as such.

You're best contribution to a fight at that point would be trolling people (and obviously some stealth/blind field, and maybe venom sharing, but come on). Sure, you could scout wherever and never die, but is that really that much harder to do with any build if you spec into 30 shadow arts?

Edited by Vysander, 28 February 2013 - 08:24 PM.

[Yamirashi]

One thing to point out, the difference in power between a PVT and PTH is a nice chunk because Power is the Primary stat on PVT and a Secondary stat on PTH or Clerics gear (probably better abbreviated HPT if you had to). A full set of armor gets you 315 primary and 224 secondary, so you're loosing out on 91 power and 224 Vitality or 2240 health only to pick up HP which as pointed out above you don't really make a lot of use of. If I was going to drop Vitality there and drop my Power I'd think you'd be much better off with Knights gear for more Toughness and Precision.

From my own personal play style, I need Vitality more than I do Toughness. I can dodge hits easier than I can dodge the conditions, and toughness doesn't help me stay alive from conditions. More vitality gives me time to take care of them before they take care of me. That's not saying I don't value toughness, as it helps a lot and is the reason I run Soldier rather than Valk for the extra survival.

Edited by Yamirashi, 01 March 2013 - 07:50 PM.