107 replies to this topic

[Typhoris]

Shatteredz, on 30 October 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:

So your enemy is just gonna let you stealth every time with CnD without either running away from you or just hitting the air and killing you?
Sure, there are builds that spend alot of time in stealth, but those numbers are simply ridiculous. Not every class(read almost none) is gonna let you stay in melee range all the time.
And it has a 3/4 second cast as well, which makes it pretty easy to dodge, if steal isnt used.

It's 1/2 cast time, do you even play your own class?

[Helexax]

Eon Lilu, on 17 October 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

Your 100% correct but expect alot of trolling and flaming come your way, the problem is I think the dev behind the thief is keeping it overpowered, it's laughable how arena net are so clueless when it comes to profession balance, its why alot of players have left the game already. There is really crappy profession balance.

You obviously don't know arena net.... the skill balances will come, and when they do, much like in guild wars, the game will change.

[MrForz]

They'll eventually do something, but I'm not expecting a nerf. Nobody would want their Thief to become unattractive in terms of gameplay and/or results and that's normal. (Even if I'd have a good time on the moment, but I'm not wishing stuff to burn.)

I'd say... a review of some sorts.

Edited by MrForz, 30 October 2012 - 07:46 PM.

[Shatteredz]

Typhoris, on 30 October 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

It's 1/2 cast time, do you even play your own class?

For some reason i had 3/4 in my head, no idea why. Probably because i see people actually dodge that skill.

[antoninusthepious]

The class is extremely squishy though.  There are trade offs.  A friend of mine runs the "perma stealth" build in WvW and although it can be fun, once they see you you're only option is to run lest you explode in one second.  I've seen it!

[AetherMcLoud]

antoninusthepious, on 30 October 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

The class is extremely squishy though.  There are trade offs.  A friend of mine runs the "perma stealth" build in WvW and although it can be fun, once they see you you're only option is to run lest you explode in one second.  I've seen it!

LOL. Every other class, when glasscannon specced, CANNOT EVEN GET AWAY. Thieves have so many active defenses, when you don't want to die, you will not die. Even if specced glasscannon. See a problem there?

[antoninusthepious]

AetherMcLoud, on 30 October 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

LOL. Every other class, when glasscannon specced, CANNOT EVEN GET AWAY. Thieves have so many active defenses, when you don't want to die, you will not die. Even if specced glasscannon. See a problem there?

Yea you're probably right.  In sPVP it is indeed annoying.  But I am coming from WvW and don't sPVP anymore so my experience with and against thieves being OP come from that aspect of the game (which for me, in WvW, thieves aren't OP).

The class has been nerfed in damage twice already afaik.  Pistol whip and.. I forgot the other one.  Now it looks like people are gunning to take away their survivability by way of stealth.  TBH I just do not know how long people who play thieves can endure being qq'd and nerfed upon to the point that they might even quit the game or just reroll and create threads in here saying "they finally broke the thief class. you happy?"

  To the OP I suggest playing more WvW if you don't!  Can be a nice change from sPVP

[MrForz]

antoninusthepious, on 30 October 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

Yea you're probably right.  In sPVP it is indeed annoying.  But I am coming from WvW and don't sPVP anymore so my experience with and against thieves being OP come from that aspect of the game (which for me, in WvW, thieves aren't OP).

The class has been nerfed in damage twice already afaik.  Pistol whip and.. I forgot the other one.  Now it looks like people are gunning to take away their survivability by way of stealth.  TBH I just do not know how long people who play thieves can endure being qq'd and nerfed upon to the point that they might even quit the game or just reroll and create threads in here saying "they finally broke the thief class. you happy?"

  To the OP I suggest playing more WvW if you don't!  Can be a nice change from sPVP

Well, some people have different mentalities, many like to be cried at so they can unleash their ultimate 'L2P' phrase before turning their back and walking away like a true professionnal assassin or whatever twsted scheme they look to do. Others don't mind selecting the class on which you get immediate results to get more comfortable with. Some chose thief purely by concept and didn't ask for this (no pun intended). The rest won't touch the class due to the disaster caused above.

Concerning the WvW part, it's still a force to be reckoned with.

Edited by MrForz, 30 October 2012 - 10:09 PM.

[fafnr]

Shinimas, on 30 October 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

"Our class can't be mastered instantly by a housewife who never played games or used a computer before, therefore, it's balanced!".

Wow, Thieves... just wow, that's a new low.

Amen.   Shatterdz is just a thief fanboy that doesnt want his uber class to get nerfed and will argue all day every day to keep it intact. Any one of my suggestions would work for a thief and it would still be an awesome class but the thief no skills wont listen lol.

Edited by unraveled, 11 December 2012 - 07:54 AM.
Removed insult. I'd fix the grammar but life is too short.

[fafnr]

antoninusthepious, on 30 October 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

The class is extremely squishy though.  There are trade offs.  A friend of mine runs the "perma stealth" build in WvW and although it can be fun, once they see you you're only option is to run lest you explode in one second.  I've seen it!

Yes they are squishy.  WHEN you can see them.   Usually theyre zipping around stealthed with flickers of visibility then invulnerable while attacking a lot of the time.   My elementalist is even more squishy,  and attackable for a lot more than fractions of a second.

[Asomal]

fafnr, on 30 October 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

Yes they are squishy.  WHEN you can see them.   Usually theyre zipping around stealthed with flickers of visibility then invulnerable while attacking a lot of the time.   My elementalist is even more squishy,  and attackable for a lot more than fractions of a second.

If they sneak behind your back, you should be prepared to react (or do you, when playing an FPS, ask politley to the enemy team not kill you from behind whenever they can?). Oh,and stealth doesn't make you invunerable!

Edited by Asomal, 30 October 2012 - 10:47 PM.

[ZigKid3]

thieves and warriors both need damage tuning. I literally die in 2-3 seconds from full to 0.

Also my friend who plays a thief made a trait spec where they can essentially cc lock you with daze from behind the whole time and for a split second window you have a chance to react, youre blinded, then they repeat their almost infinite cc chain till you die.

Edited by ZigKid3, 30 October 2012 - 10:57 PM.

[antoninusthepious]

fafnr, on 30 October 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

invulnerable while attacking a lot of the time.

Am i missing something?  I played a thief for one whole BWE and did not recall them having a skill that grantrs invulnerability while attacking.  I can only think of Leaping Death Blossom that fits that description.

ZigKid3, on 30 October 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

thieves and warriors both need damage tuning. I literally die in 2-3 seconds from full to 0.

(We have to take into account) What class and spec and gear are you using (?)
Guardian? Thief? Mesmer? Are you full Knight's or Berserker or Clerics?  Not to mention traits, weapon sets, utility skills and which utility skills are on cooldown when you, in 3 seconds, went from full to 0

Edited by antoninusthepious, 30 October 2012 - 11:03 PM.

[Skyro]

Initially I didn't think Thieves needed to be nerfed much or any at all since they are certainly not OP'ed in tPvP when 2 competent teams face each other, but I think there is something to be said about appeasing the casual/newbie fanbase (and I don't mean that in an offensive way). Regardless of the game this cross-section of the fanbase is the largest, and it just makes business sense to appease your largest consumer base. Top teams are hoping GW2 can become an e-sport, though personally I'm very skeptical, but IMO to become an e-sport you need that casual fanbase otherwise nobody will care to watch.

The question in my mind what is the best approach to make glass cannon d/d Thieves not so frustrating for casuals to defend against, but still viable in top flight matches between 2 good teams, and it is not as simple as making Steal not being able to be cast while using another skill as that would absolutely destroy the d/d build IMO. I really feel that if ANet had a ladder system and spectator mode in place so that people could see how competent players deal with d/d thieves this whole debate would be moot. If casual players are so turned off by thieves and ANet is losing that playerbase I would not be against toning down thieves temporarily, and then rebuffed when these systems are in place. I really hinges on the rate of player attrition due to this issue, if any, and how far along the ladder system and spectator mode are from implementation.

Edited by Skyro, 30 October 2012 - 11:05 PM.

[AetherMcLoud]

People should stop judging class balance from WVW. Gear is much more important there than everything else. The only way to judge class balance is in sPVP.

[Shatteredz]

fafnr, on 30 October 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

Amen.   Shatterdz is just a thief fanboy that doesnt want his uber class to get nerfed and will argue all day every day to keep it intact. Any one of my suggestions would work for a thief and it would still be an awesome class but the thief no skills wont listen lol.

Both of you should be banned from this forum for trolling. In those posts i never said anything, at all, about the current state of balance about thieves. All i said was, that, a housewife couldnt just create a thief and own everybody in pvp, therefore the class requires at least some degree of skill. I never said thief is the hardest class to play(hell its probably the easiest to do decent with).
I know you just got owned by a thief and came here to QQ, but making stuff up, and then saying im a retard cus of your made up argument, then go somewere else.

AetherMcLoud, on 31 October 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

People should stop judging class balance from WVW. Gear is much more important there than everything else. The only way to judge class balance is in sPVP.

Balancing around spvp, lets see.
Stun-breaker will be used automatically if you get stunned.
A stun breaker will automatically be part of your skill-set.
100b will only do 50% of the damage cus half of spvp doesnt dodge it.
That is balancing around spvp, and it doesnt make a healthy game at all.

As i said, we should balance GW2, like every other major MMO(name a game that balances around the bad players, for example), should revolve around high-level play, for obvious reasons i cant be bothered to post for the 50th time. Thus we should balance around Tpvp.

Skyro, on 30 October 2012 - 11:04 PM, said:

The question in my mind what is the best approach to make glass cannon d/d Thieves not so frustrating for casuals to defend against, but still viable in top flight matches between 2 good teams, and it is not as simple as making Steal not being able to be cast while using another skill as that would absolutely destroy the d/d build IMO. I really feel that if ANet had a ladder system and spectator mode in place so that people could see how competent players deal with d/d thieves this whole debate would be moot. If casual players are so turned off by thieves and ANet is losing that playerbase I would not be against toning down thieves temporarily, and then rebuffed when these systems are in place. I really hinges on the rate of player attrition due to this issue, if any, and how far along the ladder system and spectator mode are from implementation.

Most people aint complaining it all, its just a very small part of the vocal minority(the part that goes on the forum), I have been flamed in Spvp for using a thief once, or twice, while using various builds. You would think, that i would get flamed alot more if thief was really that OP. The amount of people that actually feel like thief is OP in pvp, is a very small minority.

Edited by unraveled, 11 December 2012 - 07:54 AM.
Amended quote.

[AetherMcLoud]

Shatteredz, on 31 October 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

bla bla bla

Oh look some guy who doesn't realize that tournaments are STRUCTURED PVP too... go troll somewhere else thief fanboy. Also strawman arguments make you look even more stupid than you actually are.

Edited by AetherMcLoud, 31 October 2012 - 01:09 AM.

[Shatteredz]

AetherMcLoud, on 31 October 2012 - 01:08 AM, said:

Oh look some guy who doesn't realize that tournaments are STRUCTURED PVP too... go troll somewhere else thief fanboy. Also strawman arguments make you look even more stupid than you actually are.

I cant help it that you already made the suggestion a few times that we should balance the game around scrubs. Then again, I quess you would like that the whole world revolves around you, and thus balance should revolve around noobs with big e-peens.

And, spvp is refered as 8vs8, by anet themself. Tpvp is the 5vs5 tournament mode, where the actual high-level play is supposed to happen.

Also, I am gonna go ahead and do my last magic trick. In no single pvp mode, the objective is to kill the enemy. The objective is to hold the point. If a person dies and respawns and comes back 30 seconds later, or runs away and comes back 30 seconds later has pretty much the same effect on the objective.

Edited by Shatteredz, 31 October 2012 - 01:31 AM.