40 replies to this topic

[Orual Fox]

So I just watched this:



Which, I respect Wp's grasp on the lore for the most part.  But he brought up the lore of the Mad King and the breaking of the different seals to release him, as the lunatic court wants to.

One seal was something related to Dhuum

One seal was related to get the royal blood back on the throne

etc etc.

While I don't fully doubt him, I was looking for some clarification and possible sources related to this topic.  This thread could also serve as a reminder/conglomeration of Mad King Lore as halloween looms near.  

So, what do we know?

What's the relation to Palawa Joko? The mysterious Lich? Lunatic Court? The tomb in Majesty's Rest?

I plan to be back in GW1 to play the "new" stuff of Halloween that they said was incoming, but also to review the lore myself.  But again, let's just put it all in one place.

Edit: Linking this to help with those unfamiliar:  http://wiki.guildwar.../Mad_King_Thorn

Edited by Orual Fox, 17 October 2012 - 06:14 PM.

[Orual Fox]

And one more thing to get the conversation rolling is a quote from the Countess of Hakewood (an NPC during halloween, of the Lunatic Court) talking about the "seals".

The Countess of Hakewood Ah, the sounds of screaming peasants! 'Tis music to my ears! It's a tragedy that the world experiences the glory that is King Thorn but once a year. I can still taste the delicacies from the grand feasts his courtiers were treated to each night. Devastating famine or not, our glorious monarch knew how to prioritize the division of resources. Of course, the commoners weren't thrilled with his economic policies, but before our beloved king had a chance to tell them just what he thought about their opinions, his reign was cut short. With a carving knife. That is why His Royal Squashness has sent me here to perform a mystical ceremony of ancient magical...er...magic. According to his calculations, which are as infallible as everything else about His Majesty, he is imprisoned behind a series of magical seals that prevent him from materializing in the mortal realm more than once a year. The return of the Krytan royal bloodline to power has destroyed the first seal, weakening the barrier preventing our most glorious king's permanent return to your world. I am as excited as an inquisitor in a room full of dissidents! Now, I'm no expert on magical seals or summoning spirits from beyond the grave, but what I do know is these sort of fancy rituals usually require some sort of artifacts to work. At least, every sacrificial altar I've ever seen was quite cluttered with seemingly random knick-knacks! Prior to his tragic death, King Thorn had three possessions dearer to him than any others. Unfortunately, a horde of revolting peasants burned them, along with his palace, most of his courtiers, and, well, him... But don't fret, I have an alternative! After his untimely pitchfork-and-torch-related "accident," many of our most benevolent king's possessions ended up in the hands of his ungrateful, thieving servants and other unworthy swine. We must reclaim them! And by "we" I mean "you." I have located three suitable heirlooms. I trust you are as eager to please the king as I am.

[Orual Fox]

And because I was bored/reading. I will post here for benefit.  All information was pulled from the Guild Wars Wiki.  


Mad King Thorn is a former king of Kryta, known for his jokes and his insanity. Although it is unknown when he lived, much is known about his reign. During his reign, Kryta suffered a severe famine while Thorn held exquisite banquets for his courtiers. This made him unpopular with the commoners, an effect he exacerbated by once having a number of villagers skinned alive. He traveled to Elona on multiple occasions and is said to have had "many squabbles over the years" with Palawa Joko, who was an "up-and-coming king in Elona" at the time.  (This was revealed in a set of quests in Halloween 2010, where the player went to incite a feud between the two again, to keep "Grenth busy with paperwork, categorizing souls, so that he would not notice Mad King's return")

He hates the Tengu, Harpies, and Ettins (Ettins especially, as there was a quest in where you went a killed off a certain group of ettins that MK had banished years ago to Perdition Rock) but fears termites.

He once had a spat with Qwytzylkak. (This is an eidoln, that apparently was a rival of MK in terms of humor, again there was a quest in which you were sent to exterminate him in Venthendi Valley.  His joke (written in that crazy language also seen in the Durmand Priory) was Why did the Seer chase after the eidolon? Because time was of the essence!)

Thorn was married eight times, though only the identity of the fifth bride is known: During a trip to Elona, he married the Istani princess Zola, having convinced her to accept him by holding her father hostage. It is said that wars followed after he had her burned alive—a low point in their marriage. (You meet and successfully "free" her from other suitor spirits preventing her leaving Elona "again".  After doing so, she admits she wants to be the FIRST one to send her crazy husband back to Grenth.)

His cruel and insane rule was ultimately brought to an end when an enraged mob stormed his castle. Many of his staff fled, leaving him to his death, which was effected with a carving knife. After his death, the mob is said to have been "very creative" with his corpse. Afterwards, his palace and most of his possessions and courtiers were set ablaze. (In another quest, you are actually sent out to recover his body (from the mauseloum in Majesty Rest) only to find out it's not really his body, since the original was so messed up.  But any royal body will do .  

You are also sent to retrieve 3 artifacts/herilooms to assist in the ritual.  They were:
- Most Prized Half-eaten apple from his saddlebag (From Bryce the Stablehand)
-MK's left slipper (from Geoffrey the Butler)
-MK's copy of "Moa Soap for the Demented Soul" (from Guardsman Brofis the Deserter)

These were said to be used for the ritual of bringing him back as ("didn't we always send junk around other altars? We figured we needed stuff too" -Countess Hakewood)

As a spirit (often referred to as a "Spirit Lord"), he lives in the "Mad Realm" within the Underworld and, because of a series of seals restricting him, (Question is : How many? ) he is able to return to Tyria for only one day each year: Halloween.

The Lunatic Court are attempting to break the seals and bring Thorn back as an undead. The first seal was broken when Salma took the throne.
When Halloween approaches, Thorn's influence seeps through into Kamadan and Lion's Arch, transforming the citizens into assorted monsters. He is generally accompanied by Candy Corn servants.

Also, because of the jokes and weakening of seals, it caused the "Flux" to begin in PvP.  Since the seals were weakening, it was causing areas more close to the barriers of Mist to flux, causing these problems.

Edited by Orual Fox, 17 October 2012 - 06:43 PM.

[Konig Des Todes]

Uh...

No seal was related to Dhuum. The first seal was to have royal blood on the throne. The second was the Halloween quests from 2011 - the ones dealing with the Lunatic Court - which was broken via an off-screen ritual utilizing items from Thorn's life. We only know of these two seals.

Relation to Joko: They're rivals. During Thorn's life, Joko was an "up and coming prince" - but beyond this, it's fairly unknown.

Mysterious Lich: 100% Mysterious

Lunatic Court was his court of nobles when he ruled - though I doubt they were called such then.

Majesty's Rest is, as the name implies, the tomb of Krytan royalty. Though Thorn's body wasn't there, we retrieved a corpse that would be used to house Thorn's soul when he returned.


Edit:

Zola was Vabbian. The Istani princess was someone else. How he got Zola to marry him is unknown, I believe. Apparently someone altered the wiki article after I rewrote it a while back to include all that lore accurately. *sigh* Gotta go fix others' screw ups again.

[Orual Fox]

Ok.  Again I copied most from Wiki, but the Vabbian is correct.

But surely there is SOME connection between Mad King and Dhuum.  The lunatic court sends messengers (the players) as candy corn men to warn the reapers/Ice King of the possibility of Dhuum's return.  There seems to be a though that the Lunatic Court helps out where it would help the Mad King?

So my question is:  Why would the Mad King want to warn of Dhuum's return?  What's in it for him?

Mad King Steward:
Greetings! I'm glad you've returned. I have...curious news from the Mad Realm. His Dreadful Majesty, who is usually ready to believe just about anything, remains obstinate about the possibility of Dhuum's reemergence. The Reapers have sent word that Dhuum's elite skeletal soldiers have been appearing throughout the Underworld in greater and greater numbers. If we could present Mad King Thorn with the remains of one of these minions, he would most likely see the danger on the horizon. Unfortunately, killing them only adds to Dhuum's growing power. If you were instead to weaken one of Dhuum's minions without killing it, you should be able to imprison it within an Everlasting Mobstopper. Return to me quickly with the trapped enemy, and I will place it before my lord.

(later said)

The Mad King, whom I serve most obediently, appears more concerned about dripping pie filling on his invisible pony than the possible return of Dhuum. Though I am unworthy to speculate about the thickness of his head, I can see in his empty eyes that he doesn't consider one skeleton evidence of an uprising. Would you mind capturing a few more of Dhuum's minions? Naturally, I will reward you for every batch of evidence you bring.

(and later still)

Well done! On behalf of my liege, I thank you. The more crystallized skeletons I show him, the brighter his candle burns. For this reason, my offer remains open: capture more minions and claim more rewards.

So, was just the Steward worried?  Or is there more to it?

[Konig Des Todes]

The connection between Thorn and Dhuum is simply that they're both from the Underworld (currently). Dhuum is imprisoned there and Thorn lives there. Dhuum's awakening affected Thorn and he (Thorn) wanted to put Dhuum down because he (Dhuum) is a threat.

There's little more other than that.

In other words: Dhuum waking up, who hates those who cheat death, means that Thorn's home will have new management and the chances of Thorn being able to visit Tyria yearly reduces (since that's a form of cheating death, I'd bet).

[Chava Blue]

Konig Des Todes, on 17 October 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

Lunatic Court was his court of nobles when he ruled - though I doubt they were called such then.

Not officially, I'm sure, but that always struck me as a derogatory nickname that stuck. It's very possible the peasants called them that.

[Orual Fox]

Also:  http://www.guildwars...html?t=10329152

the original discussion from GW1 guru.  

Not trying to start any old discussions there, just moving things up to the present, to make this thread ready for GW2 info.

[draxynnic]

Konig Des Todes, on 17 October 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

The connection between Thorn and Dhuum is simply that they're both from the Underworld (currently). Dhuum is imprisoned there and Thorn lives there. Dhuum's awakening affected Thorn and he (Thorn) wanted to put Dhuum down because he (Dhuum) is a threat.

There's little more other than that.

In other words: Dhuum waking up, who hates those who cheat death, means that Thorn's home will have new management and the chances of Thorn being able to visit Tyria yearly reduces (since that's a form of cheating death, I'd bet).

It probably goes beyond that even, in fact - the impression I get is that while Grenth allows souls to persist in the Underworld, Dhuum consumed them. So Dhuum taking full control of the Underworld might concern Thorn less because it means he wouldn't be able to return, and more because Dhuum would proceed to bring a final death to him and all the other spirits of the dead in the Underworld.

[Orual Fox]

So according to the newest post by Anet, we see that King Thorn died about 500 yrs ago.  So, lore-masters, what was happening 500 yrs in the GW universe?  I don't know all my dates.

[Konig Des Todes]

That'd be approximately 825 AE - since we know Anet loves to round events to the nearest fiftieth (and sometimes to the nearest hundredth), we can say this means 800-850 AE. At this time we have only 1 real major event, in 851 AE: Lord Odran opens portals to the Mists.

Other events of note are in 860 AE - Nolani is established (irrelevant), and Palawa Joko conducts his first invasion of Elona.

However, given that Joko was an "up and coming king" during Thorn's lifetime, we can probably assume that Thorn either lived a long time, or died on the earlier end of the rounding spectrum, as Joko established his Bone Palace in the Desolation (which marks the earliest mention of him) in 757 AE.

For future reference, Orual, all major dates are here: http://wiki.guildwar...m/wiki/Timeline

[Orual Fox]

Why thank you kind sir.  Again, I am just trying to keep the lore updated here, as we find things out in GW2.  

So, to understand right, taking the Anet Rounding principle, Thorn was most likely older as he knew Joko as an upcoming king, and since that didn't happen until 757 AE.  My question is, was Joko already undead when he established his Bone Palace? Or did that happen later.

Edited by Orual Fox, 19 October 2012 - 05:06 AM.

[Konig Des Todes]

We don't know. Joko's history is more mysterious than Thorn's at this rate.

[silavor]

I think Joko might have still mortal back then, since at some point Joko had to learn how to tame the junundu wurms. Undead don't need to use the wurms for crossing the Desolation, since the sulfur doesn't affect them. If Joko never used the wurms as a means of transport for himself, then how did he learn that the wurms could be used to safely move mortals across the sulfurous wastes?

[EliteZeon]

Is it me or do really significant things seem to happen in roughly 250 year intervals?

250 years ago was the golden age of my lorebreaking adventuring, 250 years before that was the fall of Thorn, followed by the rise and fall of Joko decades later, and the Jade Wind caused by Shiro another four years after that.

[Konig Des Todes]

200 years prior to GW1 was an eventful timeframe (Odran, Joko, Shiro).

[AgonyTheHex]

You know, what always made me wonder is why did the Mad King become a spirit lord in the underworld? How did he acquire the might he showed during Halloween in gw1, where he could slay a whole city of rather powerful adventurers on a whim? If he could be defeated by an angry mob of peasants when alive, I think it safe to assume that he was no extraordinarily powerful wizard back then.

Is there any information on why he, and not any other of the royal family, would rise to such apparent prominence after his death?

[draxynnic]

Well... he could have been. Anyone can be overwhelmed or caught by surprise, after all.

It's probably more likely that he did gain his power after death, though - one of these cases of a strong but deranged personality resulting in a powerful spirit, or it could be that all the things he did when he lived, combined with the circumstances of his death, served to power him up after death. For instance, the peasants being "creative" with his body may have accidentally stumbled on a ritual to make a pumpkinheaded spirit lord.

That's all speculation, though - from what I know, there's no hard information.

[Konig Des Todes]

Spoilers
So GW2 halloween lore I've gained thus far:

His full name is Oswald Thorn, nicknamed Os as a kid, he had a brother Ewan (who was liked more by the noble family girls - particularly a "Serene Brody" and a "Lyrica") - unlike Os, Ewan was nice. He loved cruel pranks even as a child, and tormented animals by giving them hot peppers. He killed his father to ascend the throne and when accused of it at his crowning ceremony, he had the accuser (Lord Humphrey Faren - perhaps an ancestor of our favorite playboy Lord Faren?). 1325 marks the 500th anniversary of Oswald's death, so he died in 825 AE.

It's interesting that Thorn is his last name (well, odd first name I guess) - I wonder if this means if Doric is a surname too (and for that matter, the case of other kings' names).

Time to find more of Thorn's briography!

Edit: Ewan Thorn was nicknamed Ewie apparently, and Oswald might have killed him (just saw an item that said they got into a "sticky situation" and only one returned). Oswald Thorn's first wife seems to be Lady Lyrica, who married him after he wooed her into believing she could carry on Ewan's works (not sure what they were), but became violent afterwards - when she went on a summer trip to visit her sister, she was assassinated under Oswald's orders.

Edit2: Seems he was forceful in marrying Lyrica, her servant not trusting him though. Thorn's first attempts at Lyrica was chasing her down a dark alley and trying to make her play "Prince Oswald Says" - Lyrica slapped him, but before he could retaliate her servant stepped in the way - a few days later, Thorn beat said servant to death.

The Thorn brothers had a childhood friend, Samson. Though Samson liked Ewan more, he enjoyed Oswald's jokes often - one day Ewan was sick so Samson and Oswald played alone - in the LA sewers, where a giant wurm latched onto Samson - Oswald fled despite having a sword.

One more biography page left!

Edit3: Oswald did indeed kill Ewan, the heir to the throne - though indirectly. Ewan was protective of his brother, disclaiming the sayings that Oswald was cruel. On one day, however, Oswald tricked Ewan into a giant spider's web thus becoming heir.

[Orual Fox]

It might be noted: From here on there may very well be SPOILERS for the halloween event.

[Icdan]

Konig Des Todes, on 23 October 2012 - 05:20 AM, said:

Spoilers
So GW2 halloween lore I've gained thus far:

His full name is Oswald Thorn, nicknamed Os as a kid, he had a brother Ewan (who was liked more by the noble family girls - particularly a "Serene Brody" and a "Lyrica") - unlike Os, Ewan was nice. He loved cruel pranks even as a child, and tormented animals by giving them hot peppers. He killed his father to ascend the throne and when accused of it at his crowning ceremony, he had the accuser (Lord Humphrey Faren - perhaps an ancestor of our favorite playboy Lord Faren?). 1325 marks the 500th anniversary of Oswald's death, so he died in 825 AE.

First of all: Interesting to finally get some lore about the Mad King. Where did you find all of this?
Second: What did Mad King do to Lord Humphrey Faren? "he had the accuser..." ?

[Konig Des Todes]

It's from the GW2 event that began a few hours ago - talking to Magister Tassi (sp?) begins a little scavenger hunt to find ghosts from Mad King Oswald Thorn's past to complete a biography of his life (I've only completed the first volume - up to his coronation it seems, not sure if the second volume is able to go after - haven't figured out the current clue).

Humphrey was beheaded - on the spot. His ghost is even headless with a bloody stump of a neck, not like the neckless GW1 headless.

[Orual Fox]

3 new quests popped in Guild Wars 1, a two-stage one in LA and one from Kamadan.  Learning from this, we find out the Mad King likes the sound of Harmonicas and apparently the seals that the Lunatic Court have been breaking, accidentlly broke the seals on the pony pen and let out Mr. Gum Drops.  No spoilers, those are in the quest description.

[Konig Des Todes]

Discoveries from the Act 2 scavenger hunt (which completes the Mad Memoires):


During the famine, there were thieves who tried to steal food. Thorn's response to this was to round up everyone suspected of thievery and cut off their hands - irregardless of innocence of guiltiness (this seems like a reference to the Eye for an Eye law - stealing a loaf of bread meant getting a hand cut off).

Furthermore, during said famine, Thorn increased taxes - which starved many people. When some pleaded to him to lower the taxes so they could survive, he laughed and told them to eat candy corn (the page itself says "In which King Thorn says "Let them eat candy corn!"" - a reference to Mary Antoinette from the French Revolution, "let them eat cake").

Zola was forced into marrying Thorn as well - since she refused him, he kidnapped her father and threatened to kill him - which both believed. After Zola married him, the father (Seamarshal Bennu) was forced to let the issue slide since Thorn effectively had Zola as a hostage, however when he tired of her and had her burned at the stake (wow, Thorn's just full of references!), Bennu waged war with Kryta in fury - and lost. Bennu claims that when Thorn was killed, the gods put Zola in the Mad Realm in order to try to calm him down (which doesn't make much sense given that she's in Vabbi during GW1...).

Later during the famine, people began calling Oswald "Mad King" due to his random bursts of yelling for no reason and his horrible jokes. During this time, he enforced a policy where those who couldn't pay taxes were killed - now known as the "Tax Massacre." These people rounded up were lined up, with pumpkins placed on their heads instead of bags, and hung.

There was a rebellion as well later on - the village was in modern Harathi Hinterlands (further north of Demetra). He burned it to the ground and, apparently, even the village's name was removed form history.

After the village was burned, the people had enough and stormed the palace. They not only killed his court and Oswald himself, but all his children as well - to end the Thorn line - and placed his cousin on the throne. Apparently, Oswald had powerful magic even when living and before his death he sword vengeance and that he would return in time. The people believed him so they cut him up, stuffed different pieces of him in different boxes, casted obscuring spells on the boxes, and buried them far apart from each other (guess that's how they got creative). The ghosts believes this is what keeps Thorn weaker in Tyria rather than in the Mad Realm. And supposedly, the spells on these boxes are weakening due to Thorn's powerful magic and will.

[Orual Fox]

Congrats on whoever it was that called the seals being pieces of his body!

[Konig Des Todes]

Obscuring magic isn't seals though. A ghost merely makes the speculation of Thorn being weaker due to his body being scattered every which way - not because of the spells placed on the individual boxes.

Though it could be either or really.

[Sans]

Would it be a safe bet to say that in Act 3, a new scavenger hunt will be available, which will let us go recover his body parts?

[Konig Des Todes]

Would be kinda boring, imo, if they had 4 different scavenger hunts. I'd expect more variety in the activities.

[Orual Fox]

I wouldn't see us recovering body parts.  That would seem to be helpful to the Mad King and I am getting a vibe (different than GW1) that we DON'T want to help.  

Pure speculation.  

Or maybe we find them to destroy them? or find them to reestablish seals?

[Valkaire]

Maybe we end up doing that in later Halloween events but atm I'm thinking that Act 4 consists of Mr. Thorn breaking out and going on with his usual shenanibaggery. Considering act 3 is him almost breaking out and us trying to stop him from doing so, there isn't a lot of room/time for us to hunt down his body parts and destroy them/reestablish the seals.