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Best WvW Class? Worst? Pickles? PICKLES?!

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#1 ArlanKels

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:15 PM

What class do you feel has the greatest ease of use in WvW?


What class do you think performs, on average, the worst in WvW?

What one would you recommend for players who are not good at mastering things but overall perform average, or rather what would make the best Infantry unit?

#2 eviator

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:21 PM

Based solely on the comments from my guild mates, guardian seems to be of marginal utility in WvW, where a lot of the combat is necessarily ranged. Some may disagree, and I'm fine with that.

#3 Darknicrofia

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:23 PM

thieves, mesmers and engineers are amazing in WvW, the pure melee classes, not so much

#4 GrandmaFunk

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:24 PM

Each class has at least one build style that can fulfill one or more roles very effectively.... so there aren't any worst classes, only bad players/builds

#5 Myugen

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:34 PM

View PostGrandmaFunk, on 18 October 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

Each class has at least one build style that can fulfill one or more roles very effectively.... so there aren't any worst classes, only bad players/builds

Completely disagree, stack a team with thieves, mesmers and engis and you will be flipped, tossed, lobbed, grenaded, aoe'd, spun/reflected to death. Add a few guardians and you are set.

They are currently the insane classes imo.

Guardian i dont consider as OP, but definitely relevant. Warriors Ive seen excel in small to medium sized fights as well

#6 bashaman

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:37 PM

The question does not make much sense because you didn't specify the area. Are we talking about offence, defence, scouting, harrasing or whatever other role there might be? All of them are good, that way or the other. Engis and Mesmers might be somehow better though :)

#7 Vulkus

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:42 PM

Guardian is a damn fine class as long as you aren't expecting ranged effectiveness.  I usually stomp HB warriors or GS guardians with my spec.  Edit:  From my experience the best class right now (most well-rounded) is the Mesmer, followed closely by Engineer.

Of all the classes I've played to max or mid level, my worst experience is with the Necromancer.  I can't explain it, and even though conditions seem to be decent at annoying zergs and defenders, it seems the condition damage isn't the most effective thing in WvW (because there are so many removals).  The problem is that the condition spec is really the best spec for Necromancer.  With my Necro, I have to work extremely hard to get damage on target, which is easier done on other classes.  Finally, Deathshroud is basically a signal to the enemy team to begin crowd control on you.  It makes no sense that we get no stability boon when using DS.  Half the time I end up on my arse as soon as I activate it.

These are all just my own experiences, and I'm sure there are other, better, necromancers than I.

Edited by Vulkus, 18 October 2012 - 07:47 PM.


#8 GrandmaFunk

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:43 PM

View PostMyugen, on 18 October 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

Completely disagree, stack a team with thieves, mesmers and engis and you will be flipped, tossed, lobbed, grenaded, aoe'd, spun/reflected to death. Add a few guardians and you are set.

and yet wouldn't such teams benefit greatly from having necros or eles along to chill-bomb opponents?

Necros also have the longest pull skill in the game, which is great to isolate targets from mobs, and never underestimate the use of Fear marks on mobs trying to break down your gates.

every class can contribute worthwhile things to a team that the others can't(or not as well).

#9 Myugen

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 07:46 PM

View PostGrandmaFunk, on 18 October 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:



and yet wouldn't such teams benefit greatly from having necros or eles along to chill-bomb opponents?

Necros also have the longest pull skill in the game, which is great to isolate targets from mobs, and never underestimate the use of Fear marks on mobs trying to break down your gates.

every class can contribute worthwhile things to a team that the others can't(or not as well).

Can 2 necros pull 20 people off a bridge down tontheir deaths with 2 buttons? Thats my beef. Aoe pulling, thief ulti, constant aoe auto attack, some of these classes have such a bs edge in WVW it cant be denied. Not saying others can't contribute, but if this were dodgeball...those three kids would be the first picked for teams.

Edited by Myugen, 18 October 2012 - 07:49 PM.


#10 DireIntentions

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 12:30 AM

No love for necro??? Why????????

#11 KodiakX

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:26 AM

My Mesmer is by and large my favorite class for WvW.  It's ranged (1200 range GS).  It has great keep siege ability (phantasms).  It brings great utility (portals, feedback, focus skills reflect as well, timewarp, AOE pull, etc).  It has great survivability and escapability (teleport, invis, clones, distortion).  Deals decent AOE (Berserker + Warden are 4-5k each).  It's pretty much perfect short of the only decent AOE instead of fantastic AOE (like an Ele).

My Guardian is okay because it has plenty of survivability to survive in skirmish PvP and as support it's amazing.  I see a Guardian sitting there AOE healing and supporting it's allies and it can make my elementalist AOE just worthless.

My Engineer I liked a lot for WvW but I felt it was kinda disappointing in the end.  Grenades are pretty one note in that they're great for sieging/defending a keep if you can see what you're throwing at but in those battles where the enemy is invisible it can such royally not have a targeted attack.  Also Grenades are pretty easy to dodge once you realize they're being thrown at you.  Otherwise it's pretty great.  Grenades give you good stationary DPS while Rifle has a lot of CC for skirmish style battles.

Ele is great for AOE, kinda mediocre for everything else.  When the enemy has little to no support you can push back whole waves of them.  When the enemy has some support Eles and Guardian pushing their lines a lot of that AOE can be ignored unless you go full on glass cannon (30/30/0/10/0 in full Zerker gear) which can be less than healthy at times.  Really middle of the road class.

My necro is probably the biggest disappointment in WvW.  I love Epidemic as much as the next guy but sheer number of Guardian light fields mean conditions are pretty easily managed.  In addition, marks are largely ineffective on a wall other than a slight annoyance.  Their only real saving grace is they can be tough to kill cause of Death Shroud which is almost always up with how much action there is but all in all it's pretty lack luster all over the place.  The area they do shine (mid range with Scepter/Dagger) is usually a death sentence for them and I know I purposely pick out Necros when I see them charge forward for the free kill.  Corrupt Boon is hilarious on some Guardian who charged forward with "Save Yourselves!" however.  They aren't 100% worthless (no class really is) but in general Necros just don't excel at anything meaningful in WvW.

Those are the characters I have with any significant levels and my experiences thus far in WvW.

#12 Cottage Pie

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 12:26 PM

I feel each class has a role it can play, but right now mesmers are a WvW toolbox.

#13 Ezendor

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:18 PM

Rangers and probably necros are the worst classes for WvW.  Rangers are just so "meh" all around ):

#14 Hexenn

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:55 PM

Mesmer is certainly a WvW friendly class since they can do something effective in almost any situation. In the most important situations they perform rather marginally unless people are coordinating based on what the Mesmer is doing. Either way it's hard to argue with the sheer volume of group potential they have. That said, when not intensively coordinating, Mesmers are mediocre, and having more than a handful in a group makes them redundant.

Engineer in WvW is kind of a one-trick-pony, but that trick happens to be arguably the most important aspect of your typical siege.

Guardian can make all of the difference some of the time, or some of the difference all of the time. Unfortunately people who play them don't realize how little damage they do compared to other classes. Watching them play-warrior gets old fast, as most people neglect their best abilities.

Warriors might be the most useful class if you spec them for actual WvW conditions. Unfortunately just about every warrior I see wants to be a high-damage low-control buzzsaw, which they're good at, but throw a hammer on them and up their survivability and suddenly they become useful to someone but themselves.

Elementalists are something you need. They don't tend to have a major effect individually, but you still need them. A safe class since they can be good at whatever they want to be good at, and have a lot of group oriented abilities.

Ranger is excellent in WvW unless you spec it for arenas, which everyone does, so it's certainly on the low end.

Necros aren't bad, but they're just another warm body overall. I've never seen one be the difference between getting something done or not.

With Thieves, mediocre ones can do extremely well through a combination of their very forgiving class mechanics and rendering errors. Mechanically they're ill-suited to WvW, but through a few gimmicks it has become their game to lose. They can't really be put in a best-worst ranking since their core class mechanic has unintended chemistry with a major mechanical problem.

#15 Sathure

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:09 PM

It's dependent on the situation.

In large fights, Eles and Guardians.

In small skirmish, thieves with that forever stealth exploit.. Really infuriating as a ranger as it can take a large chunk of my damage completely away. Players can still  attack the area where they suspect the thief to be and deal damage. But pets stop completely. That's an extra 1-2k damage per hit from my eagle completely removed from the scenario. : /

#16 chuckles79

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:17 PM

There is no bad class.

Every class has things to add to the battlefield that help.  I can't point to any single class and say, "they aren't effective in WvW!"


From an opinion standpoint, I think guardians could use a buff in this arena and mesmer portals are all the rage at the moment thanks to rendering/culling issues.

#17 Isti

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:46 PM

I think people underestimate the incredible importance of Eles on their A game, because of their combo fields.  Need to demolish an attacking zerg?  Stack up, Fire combo field, everybody throws a blast finisher, and you hit them with 25 stacks of might.  Put an Ice field on your melee as they engage, blast finisher, and Frost Armor for everyone up front.  Now the zerg realizes you're there, so you lay down water fields, your thieves start spamming cluster bombs, and you have an unstoppable flanking force that can take out opposition 2-3 times its size (and chase down the stragglers after your clutch Ele throws a lightning field).

#18 Lunacy Polish

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 06:03 PM

View PostArlanKels, on 18 October 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

What class do you feel has the greatest ease of use in WvW?

To me greatest ease of use means that profession can use its most meaningful capability much of the time, not that it's the most powerful profession in WvW.

The ranged capabilities of certain Ranger and Engineer builds come to mind as having great ease of use as you usually need someone who can shoot far in most situations, but the Thief and Mesmer are up here too because a lot of their utility/escape and movement abilities are constantly useful.

View PostArlanKels, on 18 October 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

What class do you think performs, on average, the worst in WvW?


I play a warrior, I tend to think we're pretty weak because I can think of ways all the other professions have to easily shut us down or at least ignore us. But other players complain we're OP. This is going to be true of any other profession as well however.

I believe that's purely relative to what you play, your build, etc. because you're going to perceive things which do things you cannot as more powerful.  Similarly you're going to perceive opponents you've been more successful against as weak.  It's just very difficult to step back and say I can give you an accurate judgment here.

It's probably whatever profession has the most viable builds out there is best and whichever one has the fewest is the worst, but this really has nothing to do with your performance in WvW individually.  Every profession seems to have at least a handful of viable builds, it's kind of on the player to figure them out.

View PostArlanKels, on 18 October 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

What one would you recommend for players who are not good at mastering things but overall perform average, or rather what would make the best Infantry unit?

I can't give a singular recommendation but rather a principle and an example.  The principle is, you have to find your "lane".

The example is me.  I'm a Warrior, that's what I play.

The other part is, what do I do with my warrior?  I may do different things than some other warrior.  Like I'm not very good at fighting in zergs really.  I don't like trying to command or coordinate these big groups either.

I'm not especially good at sieges. Obviously I have some capability in those situations but they're boring and I feel ineffective, like other people just do it so much better I shouldn't bother.

These are the most common WvW situations unfortunately, so I have to do something different.  I've figured out I'm a good roamer.

I figured out where I'm good is when running in a small group, trying to take out supply camps, sentries, ambushing enemy players trying to link up with their zergs, etc.

I seem to do all those things successfully, that's my "lane".  I'm having a lot more fun with the warrior ever since I figured all of this out.

Figure out what you can do, and where to do it.  That's the best thing an average player can do, it's not about one specific profession it's about combinations of professions and player abilities being used successfully.

#19 Ngamok

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 06:54 PM

To be honest, Thief, Mesmer, Elementalist, Ranger, Guardian would be my picks.  Lots of people say Engineer as well, but they are good, but only in groups and if they keep hitting people with nades.  I find most groups move too much for me to hit lots of people constantly.  But if they sit at a choke point, that's another story.  To me they don't bring enough utility.  I like my Guardian more than my Engineer because I can sit back and help my group with anyone rushing us plus my shouts and consecrations to keep them safe.  Warriors are good for chasing down runners and leading the pack as well as the Guardians.

#20 lonelyrabbit

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 07:23 PM

My opinion:
Tier 1: Thief, Mesmer --- powerful in all kinds of circumstances, solo or group fight, super burst + super survival, also good at 1 vs multiple;
Tier 2: Guardian, Engi --- powerful in most of situation, good when group fight, not good at solo;
Tier 3: Warrior, Ele --- useful in most of situation, powerful sometimes but short-come is obvious too;
Tier 4: Necro, Ranger --- only useful in certain situation,  sucks in most of situation.

#21 Oriscalamitas

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 08:51 PM

Depends on if we are talking about solo scouting, small groups, zerg, or organized groups and if we are talking about siege, defense/offense, open field, chokes...etc.  For example, Guardians don't do that well solo or in a zerg, but can be extremely valuable in an organized group.  By the same token, Rangers tend to do well in a zerg, but do not add very much to an organized group.

On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being best and 1 for being utterly useless, I would rate the classes in the following way:  (Keep in mind this is a very general rating, since different specs within each profession would yield different ratings.  These are simply from my experience in WvWvW and based on the typical builds I see in my playtime.)

Mesmer: 9 for solo, 9 for small group, 4 for zerg, 10 for organized groups.
Thief: 10 for solo, 10 for small group, 6 for zerg, 7 for organized groups.
Engineer: 8 for solo, 8 for small group, 9 for zerg, 8 for organized groups.
Guardian: 4 for solo, 8 for small group, 4 for zerg, 8 for organized groups.
Warrior: 4 for solo, 6 for small group, 6 for zerg, 7 for organized groups.
Ranger: 6 for solo, 6 for small group, 8 for zerg, 4 for organized groups.
Elementalist: 3 for solo, 7 for small group, 10 for zerg, 8 for organized groups.
Necromancer: 7 for solo, 5 for small group, 7 for zerg, 6 for organized groups.

#22 Gunshow

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 07:21 AM

IMO, there are two irreplaceable classes in WvW:  

1. Mesmer - their portal is insanely useful and has no substitute.
2. Guardian - AoE heals, retaliation/stability, and the ability to chain wall abilities.

Now don't get me wrong, EVERY class can be either amazing or awful in WvW (1v1 -> full zerg) and that is solely up to the player, and to a lesser extent spec.  Mesmer/Guardian simply have very specific and unique abilities that are extremely useful in WvW.

Edited by Gunshow, 20 October 2012 - 07:23 AM.


#23 Gunshow

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 07:28 AM

You could also make a case for thieves.  Their ability to chain stealth and keep circles from turning can be a lifesaver.  AoEs will get them sooner or later, but I've seen good thieves hold off a caps long enough for help to arrive, that it's more than just a fluke.

#24 dawdler

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 07:46 AM

View Postlonelyrabbit, on 19 October 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

Tier 2: Guardian, Engi --- powerful in most of situation, good when group fight, not good at solo;
I dont really understand how you place these two classes in the same tier... Engineer isnt even close to the Guardian in WvW IMO. They are good at tossing nades up or down walls - Guardians are god at everything else.

I agree on tier 1 though. I play a Mesmer when I'm not on my mediocre Engineer and the Theif is the only major threat. Any skilled player can beat me (I'm not uberhaxxor cloning portal good) but the Theif is the only class that does it with such ease I must be like a free sandwich to them. I cant see them, I cant counter them, I cant outdamage them. They swoop in and oh I am dead. Every freaking time. They really do excel at being anti-glasscannon glasscannons.

#25 Jacbo

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 07:47 AM

A lot of the posts in this thread have very valid points. The basic idea is that not every class will be ideal for every situation. Every class has some abilities that scale to different situations, but most have a niche.

For Guardians a good example of this is the Guardian's Staff #4 skill. It's practically useless in a solo fight, but get into a zerg fight just behind the front lines? Suddenly you're healing masses of people while giving them might stacks.

Same thing with Wall of Reflection, it's not going to be a factor in a 1v1 against any competent opponent, but it can generate 100k+ Damage over its duration if placed at a ranged DPS funnel (in front of a gate, for example), especially when the attackers don't stop attacking. Three Guardians chaining it can block an area from ranged damage indefinitely.

Edited by Jacbo, 20 October 2012 - 07:48 AM.


#26 burpyierz

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 09:06 AM

You guys never tried bomb healing engineer.

Each bomb heals 260 HP, 10 engineers 2600 HP per sec :)
Bomb does about 800 damage each

#27 slam5000

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:42 PM

Wow, so much hate on Necroes! I completely disagree. I play a well based build, and can dish out a huge amount of AOE damage to enemy zergs. Also, with Chilling Darkness (inflicts a chill whenever you blink) and well of darkness, I can stop a mobile large groups for a pretty significant amount of time. Finally, Flesh Golem is a hugely underrated Elite. It is basically a huge glass cannon that has a AOE CC and regens out of combat. If I target an enemy at the back of a zerg, than use charge, nearly their entire army is knocked down for a good few seconds, pretty much breaking up any sense of formation they had prior, and very often winning a battle that otherwise would have resulted in defeat. People also argue that Necroes suck at 1v1, but once again, I beg to differ. Wells dish out a huge amount of damage, and with a great number of cripples, and immobilizes, (plus flesh golem knock down) I can usually force a single enemy to eat the entire duration of my wells, during which they can't attack (they're blinded) they take immense damage (from well of corruption and well of suffering) and they can't have any boons on them to make the situation any easier. Wells are ridiculously underrated, and it's a shame. Finally, people hate Necroes because they simply use death shroud incorrectly. I never actually use death shroud for damage, and hardly ever use life transfer. Rather I use it as a way to instantly fear (for a nice interrupt which has a short cd), as a pursuit tool, (it's tp to target, and chill them), and as a way to trap them in my wells if my other things are off cooldown. (the aforementioned chill helps with that) Anyway, that's my necro rant.

#28 Orikx

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:37 PM

Speaking of Necro

#29 MrZero

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:02 AM

View PostOrikx, on 18 December 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

Speaking of Necro

I see what you did there. I approve.

#30 JACK the Somnolent

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:45 AM

I've seen a few people in here claiming rangers aren't very good for WvW. I'll preface this by say that I am not super into WvW and I am not trying to gloat, at all.

So far I have a little over 1000 kills in WvW and the majority (probably around 90% of them) were achieved on my ranger. In huge zerg fights it's easy to just throw on a longbow and score tons of kills. With smaller skirmishes it's all about the axe+warhorn and a short bow. In general I think that rangers are fairly good in WvW, especially if you're running with a smaller group of 5-10 people raiding supply camps and harassing dolyaks.





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