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Why do mobs go invulnerable so often during underwater fight?

underwater invulnerable

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#1 ManMadeGod

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:13 AM

It's pretty annoying that mobs go invulnerable during underwater fight so often.
If they can't fight you, they flee/become invulnerable.
Sometimes they keep attacking while being invulnerable.
Despite the underwater scenes are beautiful, I hate it so much. :qq:

#2 Millimidget

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:46 AM

The pathing is bugged.

I found it most likely to happen if you gain vertical distance on them, enough to make them miss, but not enough to trigger them to repath up/down to you.

I took to facetanking them for the most part, or otherwise kite them very carefully.

#3 Omedon

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:52 AM

View PostMillimidget, on 19 October 2012 - 03:46 AM, said:

The pathing is bugged.

I found it most likely to happen if you gain vertical distance on them, enough to make them miss, but not enough to trigger them to repath up/down to you.

I took to facetanking them for the most part, or otherwise kite them very carefully.

Agreed.

To the OP, the general rule to the invulnerability state you speak of is "can they conceivably hurt you still?", if the answer is no, they become invincible until shortly after you rectify this.  I can certainly see this being more present underwater due to elevation levels in swimming.  Generally speaking, you need to maintain a "fair fight" at all times.  Sadly, facetanking is one of the most effective ways to do this.
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#4 XSevSpreeX

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 04:10 AM

I've heard that if they stray too far from their designated location/patrol they become invulnerable until they get back to their proper places, which can be easy to do underwater if you're using a spear gun. Doesn't explain why it happens on land so often though.

Edited by XSevSpreeX, 19 October 2012 - 04:11 AM.


#5 Menehune

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:28 PM

View PostMillimidget, on 19 October 2012 - 03:46 AM, said:

The pathing is bugged.

I found it most likely to happen if you gain vertical distance on them, enough to make them miss, but not enough to trigger them to repath up/down to you.

I took to facetanking them for the most part, or otherwise kite them very carefully.

Unfortunately, that doesn't explain them going invulnerable while attacking and doing damage at melee range, drakes for most part but a couple of times also with krait. Usually they then swim away while regenning HP then come back to attack while my HP is like 50% and heal still on CD. Sometimes, though, they continue to attack and do damage while my attacks do nothig but say invulnerable. Nothing to do then but get the hell out. Thankfully, it's a fairly rare occurance, but still annoying when it happens.

#6 Dayquil1923

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:35 PM

I had this happen a few times last night in Frostgorge. Was trying to kill a Veteran jellyfish thingy-o-death, pulled him and SAT there so as not to do anything I could think of to cause it to go invul.

Despite EVERYTHING I tried, every time, 5 total, then I got pissed and left, mob went invul at between 1/4 and 1/2 hp and ran away and regen'd to full. EVERY.....SINGLE.....TIME!!!!!!!

The little things like this, drives me absolutely CRAZY!!! Most things don't really bother me, little bugs here, little bugs there, etc, but this, this is just annoying :(

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#7 Hren

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:36 PM

It seems to happen to me when the mob or PC is attacking across different terrain types. That is, if it's a krait, the game thinks the krait is in the water and me on land, or that I'm in the water and the krait is on land.

#8 deitiesforce

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:37 PM

i'm just wondering when are they gonna fix this...tbh it's a pretty major problem. I avoid fighting water.

#9 Ramei Arashi

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:38 PM

How about foes on land that do the same thing, usually when I'm downed so I stand no chance at all of rallying myself.

#10 Sevens

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:44 PM

Never had it happen on Land but by the six its the worse bug in GW2 imho....I hate this and at times makes me rage!!1!

#11 Sandpit

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:36 PM

It's bugged anti-exploit code. But badly buggfed as it happens a lot. One thing I have noticed, it's better with a ranger because even if you can't hit the damned thing right in front of you, often at least your pet can!

#12 Daesu

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:37 PM

View PostOmedon, on 19 October 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

Generally speaking, you need to maintain a "fair fight" at all times.  Sadly, facetanking is one of the most effective ways to do this.

That maybe the original motivation for the feature but it doesn't work most of the time.

#13 Lastchime

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:44 PM

Yeah I haven't found a decent work around other than pulling another and waiting for it eventually to come back. I've noticed it on land too but that's profession specific, mainly happens when I'm /torch and stealth without a clone up they leash and start to regen if I'm not careful.

#14 Beta Sprite

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 06:15 PM

View PostRamei Arashi, on 19 October 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

How about foes on land that do the same thing, usually when I'm downed so I stand no chance at all of rallying myself.

Skill 4 will res you if nothing is attacking you.  Or are you saying that you just need to finish them off and the others around you have too much health?

On topic, I don't run into this issue much with my warrior (always in their face), but I have found that if I end up getting them too far away from their spawn point, they will run off and heal up.  =/

#15 Occultus

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 03:41 PM

It's not just underwater either.  I died because the mob I was fighting turned Invulnerable mid-fight, but they could still hit me.  So thanks to that bug, I had to pay to portal and pay to fix my armour.

#16 Racthoh

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 03:43 PM

It exists to give you another reason to hate underwater combat even further.
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#17 Passive Aggressive

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 09:22 PM

Everything about underwater combat is horrible.  IMO they should have left it out and focused their attentions on the things that people actually enjoy that need fixing.

The invulnerable mobs are just a tiny problem with underwater combat.

#18 Ravi Fireheart

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 09:29 PM

Truthfully, I like underwater combat. I feel there are a few bugs that ANET needs to work on,  but in my opinion underwater combat adds more depth to the game. Although I am sure many will disagree with me there.

#19 Daesu

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 02:27 AM

View PostRacthoh, on 20 October 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

It exists to give you another reason to hate underwater combat even further.

Unfortunately, the bug exists on land also.  It is annoying when you are just about to kill a monster, then it turns invulnerable and healed up before suddenly attacking you again when you least expected (e.g. when you started to fight another creature).

I just wish they would remove that feature altogether, it makes me hate GW2 combat.

Edited by Daesu, 21 October 2012 - 02:28 AM.


#20 runemima

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 02:42 AM

what does facetanking mean? diving on them from up above?

i'm an ele and i have monsters go invulnerable on land all the time. usually they also stop fighting me, but sometimes they continue to attack while regenerating and i flail around cursing.

#21 Fiwiv

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 05:32 AM

Somethimes mobs don't react, they just stand there invulnerable. They ussually wake up in 5 seconds or so,

#22 Ramei Arashi

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 05:59 AM

View PostBeta Sprite, on 19 October 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

Skill 4 will res you if nothing is attacking you.  Or are you saying that you just need to finish them off and the others around you have too much health?


Or the 4th skill isn't available. Its not automatically active, on land or underwater.  Happened to me again tonight. A couple more hits from me and I'd have rallied so it went invincible and Bandage wasn't active so I was defeated.

Equally annoying is me and foe dropping at same time resulting in me being defeated instead of rallying.

#23 Gli

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 07:38 AM

View PostBeta Sprite, on 19 October 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

On topic, I don't run into this issue much with my warrior (always in their face), but I have found that if I end up getting them too far away from their spawn point, they will run off and heal up.  =/
My 'in their face' melee characters have it on land all the time, in particular when I drop down from a height in front of something. Mobs are usually invulnerable for a few seconds when I do that. It happens so often in that adjusted my play style because of it and open every such fight with a few auto-attacks to see them take damage and fight back before risking putting more powerful skills on cooldown for nothing.

#24 Red J

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:16 AM

Honestly, 90% of underwater locations makes me tear my hair out.

Just the other day I have been doing some heart in the quaggan village near the Song of Final Exile in Snowden Drifts. Every few meters I aggro'd three or four jellyfish around me. It was insane.

#25 Grimrist

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 11:01 AM

i actually like underwater combat so this is gamebreaking to me. i'm hoping for a fix soon so i can go back to fighting underwater.

as for happening on land, maybe u guys are attacking from areas where mobs can't reach u? basically any area that would require u to jump onto. u can damage them for a bit but once they figure out they can't reach u, they'll go invulnerable until a couple of secs after returning to their original position.

#26 Syorac

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 11:03 AM

View PostOmedon, on 19 October 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

Agreed.

To the OP, the general rule to the invulnerability state you speak of is "can they conceivably hurt you still?", if the answer is no, they become invincible until shortly after you rectify this.  I can certainly see this being more present underwater due to elevation levels in swimming.  Generally speaking, you need to maintain a "fair fight" at all times.  Sadly, facetanking is one of the most effective ways to do this.

On a broader point: why does this "fair fight" rule exist? Basically, I cannot take advantage of the terrain to destroy mobs with good positioning because they are protected by an arbitrary measure.

#27 Daesu

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 04:11 PM

View PostSyorac, on 21 October 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

On a broader point: why does this "fair fight" rule exist? Basically, I cannot take advantage of the terrain to destroy mobs with good positioning because they are protected by an arbitrary measure.

I agree.  

They added this feature because they thought it would make it more challenging but as it is now it is just annoying.

1.  Even with this feature, the monster AI is still limited compared to human intelligence and that would always be the case in a PvE situation.  The fight would never be fair since the smarter human player would have the upper hand in terms of terrain usage, regardless of this feature.  For example, my warrior was able to remove the veteran troll who was guarding a field of artichoke in mount maelstrom by luring him down and jumping around back up the cliff.  I didn't even need to kill it.

2.  Combat is very dynamic by nature.  Just because a player can't be hurt at a point in time doesn't mean the player can't be hurt always.  Even when the player jumps down a rising (i.e. which means he can be hurt now), the AI still doesn't know at that point in time and still remains invulnerable.  If it is a AI pathing issue, this makes it even worse.

3.  The combat is still not fair because it is solely AI-centric.  The AI decides when to ignore the player and turns invulnerable and when to reset to attack mode.  The player doesn't know when those events are going to happen so he loses control of the timing of the combat.  This never happens in a fair pvp situation, adding this feature in a pve setting doesn't make it fair, and only makes it utterly annoying.

Edited by Daesu, 21 October 2012 - 04:18 PM.


#28 theSollith

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:21 AM

View PostSyorac, on 21 October 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

On a broader point: why does this "fair fight" rule exist? Basically, I cannot take advantage of the terrain to destroy mobs with good positioning because they are protected by an arbitrary measure.

I'm always thinking the same thing... Combat involves almost no strategy in this game as is and is really just face tanking things at this point.

Remove the invulnerability (except in a select few "sniped" locations where it is the only real option available, and even then use sparingly) ...

I mean they could have (each where they make sense and not just done as a blanket solution like invulnerability is now):
  • AI move away and out of range (at least to get the player moving a bit...)
  • Projectile reflection (have it make sense and have a duration; no perma reflects...)
  • Give most AI at least one ranged attack to hit at players range (enemies that can do so like humanoids could swap weapons, elementals could have some stone/fireball/etc. attack, etc.)
  • Underwater invulnerability seems to be a bug (which means that it just needs to be fixed in the first place)
  • etc.
Just stuff that gets a player moving or at least reacting a bit instead of using their positioning for a completely easy kill.

Edited by theSollith, 22 October 2012 - 08:23 AM.


#29 Arquenya

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:57 AM

View Postdeitiesforce, on 19 October 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

i'm just wondering when are they gonna fix this...tbh it's a pretty major problem. I avoid fighting water.
Same here. I was fighting some krait and every single time the type that throws a net becomes invulnerable short after. It just happens so often, I try to limit my water visits to the minimum possible nowadays. Strange thing is that this wasn't the case up to approximately a week ago.

#30 Solid_Gold

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:27 AM

It's not only underwater, it happens to me all the time, they are invulnerable, I'm dieing, what's that all about then !

You are not allowed to gain any advantage, as a ranger to be higher up, or use the terrain like a ranger would.

The stupidest idea ever.

Small things are game breaking.

And as said before everything about underwater combat is horrible, I try to stay away from it as much as possible.





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