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Anet says Dungeon/open world loot is "abysmal".


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#1 Kegger

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 05:44 AM

https://forum-en.gui...irst#post477887

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"It’s not an exploit to skip Kholer. He’s a bonus boss that unlocks a central waypoint, drops loot, and also gives a chest.
People skip him because:
A) He’s hard if you don’t know what you are doing, and don’t communicate enough.
2) Our changes to our token rewards moved the tokens out of his unlocked chest, so people don’t feel they have to fight him to maximize gains
III) Our dropped loot is abysmal, so you’re not finding anything of value.

Solutions:
A) He’s supposed to be hard, it’s explorable mode. We should aspire all our bosses across all difficulties to be of similar difficulty.
2 and III) We are currently re-working and changing our loot for dungeons. I had previously hoped that it would be in for the next patch, but it requires a lot of tuning and testing, so it might take another patch.
"


"Same thing that Rob said about dungeon loot is also true in open world. I recently started looking at this and its literally such a bad chance of getting good loot from those big world bosses. Champions as well, the numbers are just too low. The Halloween patch is just too close to put this in and test it, but we are also working on improving this."
Jon

Edited by Kegger, 21 October 2012 - 05:46 AM.


#2 Afyael

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 05:54 AM

He's actually a complete joke to fight but I don't risk it in pugs because it takes forever when people don't know how to watch animations...

#3 Gli

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 07:27 AM

Well, their reward system in general needs a little work. Random open world veteran/champion mobs are indeed generally a waste of time. I haven't noticed better drops from them than from regular mobs. Also, dynamic event rewards all seem to have rewards based solely on the area they're in. Getting the exact same karma/money reward for killing a dangerous champion that takes 10 people 10 minutes to take down as for some of the easier events that can be done solo in a minute or less, that always struck me as kind of wrong.

#4 Crom_The_Pale

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 10:12 AM

I would like to see better drops from bosses and champions in general but at the same time I don't want "rare" items to become too common.  At the very least they should upgrade blue items to green from champions/chests.  They should also make certain items from those chests/drops match the level of the player, not the zone level.  More then once I have completed the Frozen Maw event on a high level character only to recieve low level loot from the chest.

#5 Gilles VI

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 10:28 AM

View PostCrom_The_Pale, on 21 October 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

I would like to see better drops from bosses and champions in general but at the same time I don't want "rare" items to become too common.  At the very least they should upgrade blue items to green from champions/chests.  They should also make certain items from those chests/drops match the level of the player, not the zone level.  More then once I have completed the Frozen Maw event on a high level character only to recieve low level loot from the chest.

It's kinda random, sometimes you'll get lvl80 loot, sometimes level appropriate to the zone loot.
If they would make it 100% certain you would get lvl80 loot in those starter zones, every lvl80 would just go there to farm.
Cause killing lvl5 enemies at lvl80 takes 2seconds.

#6 Crom_The_Pale

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 02:39 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 21 October 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

It's kinda random, sometimes you'll get lvl80 loot, sometimes level appropriate to the zone loot.
If they would make it 100% certain you would get lvl80 loot in those starter zones, every lvl80 would just go there to farm.
Cause killing lvl5 enemies at lvl80 takes 2seconds.

No, it doesn't.  When your fighting a level 5 champion your scaled down and it can be just as tough a fight as a level 80 champion.  I am limiting my suggestion to the champions and big events, not suggesting that every monster should drop loot equal to the character rather then the level.

#7 Gilles VI

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 02:59 PM

View PostCrom_The_Pale, on 21 October 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

No, it doesn't.  When your fighting a level 5 champion your scaled down and it can be just as tough a fight as a level 80 champion.  I am limiting my suggestion to the champions and big events, not suggesting that every monster should drop loot equal to the character rather then the level.

As a lvl80 you're perfectly able to solo lvl5 champs, you're not able to do that in Orr, making those easy champs always drop better upscaled drops would make it very easy and profitable for lvl80 characters to farm the starter areas..

#8 Lady Rhonwyn

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:08 AM

View PostGilles VI, on 21 October 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

It's kinda random, sometimes you'll get lvl80 loot, sometimes level appropriate to the zone loot.
If they would make it 100% certain you would get lvl80 loot in those starter zones, every lvl80 would just go there to farm.
Cause killing lvl5 enemies at lvl80 takes 2seconds.

But it still feels very wrong that when you kill a champion, be it lvl5 or lvl80 and only get a blue drop...

#9 Saintray1

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:29 AM

View PostAfyael, on 21 October 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

He's actually a complete joke to fight but I don't risk it in pugs because it takes forever when people don't know how to watch animations...

Kholer is a piece of cake. And if you are really feeling lazy, let the troll (if he spawns) fight with kohler and just watch the fight.

Spoiler


#10 Kada

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:23 AM

The loot in general is definitely abysmal. For completing my level 80 story and opening my 3 loot bags I got 2 greens and a blue. Really? For something that significant, the reward should actually be comparable to the achievement. I was also incredibly disappointed with the 100% map completion reward...I'm not interested in legendary weapons because I love the mystic skins, so 2 gifts of ex and nothing else just felt empty to me.

#11 Generic Fantasy Name

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:59 AM

We pulled Kholer away from his buddies yesterday and got a surprisingly easy kill. He only did the pull+whirl twice. But this is where the problems started: the game didn't register Kholer as dead, so we never got his waypoint or his (abysmal) loot.

#12 Gli

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 12:04 PM

I've come to the painful conclusion that it isn't just the dropped loot that is 'abysmal', the entire loot/reward system for this game is pretty terrible.

Simply put, there is hardly any middle ground when it comes to getting your hands on stuff through in-game accomplishments.

You'll either stick with the simple stuff (stuff you pick up as loot, buy from the TP, or craft yourself), or you'll chose to completely invest yourself into repetitive tasks and arcane wiki-based mystic fountain nonsense.

There are practically no accomplishment-based specific rewards to be found anywhere in the 'engaged but not obsessively so' playstyle. One-time accomplishments aren't rewarded appropriately: they either give generic loot you can pick up anywhere, or they give you something that's not useful at all if you don't intend to get suckered into a greater task.

For example: 100% world completion. What's the reward? Nothing, except a useless star and 2 'gifts' that serve no purpose unless you're invested in the 'arcane wiki-based mystic fountain nonsense' I mentioned before.

This game desperately needs 'middle ground' loot rewards.

Edited by Gli, 23 October 2012 - 12:05 PM.


#13 Illein

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:43 PM

So, does anyone know whether they announced anything regarding this subject for Friday? Kinda getting tired of getting 100% blue & green drops in dungeons and outdoor events.

#14 Alex Dimitri

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:23 PM

Talkin` about loot and how weak it is, i can only speak from personal experience 700+ hrs only one Exotic dropped (and it was crap).
Recently i talked to guildies why i don`t go to dungeons, well the simple explanation would be "why should i bother" i have Exotic gear crafted and i bought weapons for multiple characters, i`ve been to majority of dungeons and saw that nothing that interests me is there.
If i want to get 20+ silver i can just kill normal mobs in high level map and i`ll get more cash in 1/6 of the time, plus i will not have expenses on repair.
Dungeons in present state are absolutely obsolete, only if you need tokens for Legendary or you have your mind set on particular armor....

#15 Xodiak

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:29 PM

Considering it takes about 2-4g to put together a full rare set (and that's on the high side), who the heck is using greens or blues at 80???
The gear drops need to be wholly revamped, and the dungeons made harder with better rewards. Hopefully this new place ups the quality of the drops, and the challenge level.

Edit------------
Alex:
Exactly.. I have zero reason to run any dungeons.. and when WvW is stale or lopsided (especially when you know you can't win).. what's left?

Edited by Xodiak, 14 November 2012 - 09:31 PM.


#16 Rachmani

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:38 PM

My group and I do it for skins (ok, not really but we're roleplayers to some degree) and for fun.
But to be honest... with the exception of Arah (maybe) the rest is just not challenging enough to be fun and not rewarding enough to be done for the loot.

#17 Bloggi

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:08 AM

Loot is abysmal? I completely agree with you. In all the time I've played, only one exotic has dropped for me and was only worth about 60s on the TP. Meanwhile, a few others who consistently score good finds (I've seen a friend get 5 exotics out of 6 runs) are quietly laughing.

Are drops truly abysmal or is it down to luck?

#18 ShezuTsukai

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:19 AM

How much does magic find gear affect? I ran with only +20% total after Halloween nerf and score rares frequently and exotics every couple of days.

#19 Tevesh

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:22 AM

Basically you have like 0.01% chance to loot a yellow item from any mob in the world. Now with 20% magic find you have 0.012 chance. Yeah good luck with that. You probably wont ever notice it in any reasonable time frame.

Also the drop is not abysmal. What is on developers' minds about this, however, is. Cuz they dont seem to really acknowledge the problem. They go like, oh well, our loot is abysmal, who cares?

And that's it. Nobody cares.

#20 I'm Squirrel

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:33 AM

I agree. GW2 loot sucks, it isn't rewarding and is plain boring. There are literally 10 unique weapons skins in the whole game. Dungeon weapons are ridiculously irritating to acquire(edit: why dungeon bosses or mobs don't drop dungeon-specific weapons and armor is a retarded development plan by ArenaNet). And don't even get me started on how stupid legendary weapons are.

Edited by I'm Squirrel, 15 November 2012 - 01:33 AM.


#21 DarkGanni

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:33 AM

From my PoV the loot system totally sucks in GW2, In GW1 we had random rare items from almost every dungeon, that in itself kept me going back and try to get the skin I wanted which was a good reason but the way GW2 is: Go in dungeon get the lame daily tokens and when you have enough get a weapon of your choice.

My second biggest complaint about the loot is that rare skins come mostly from the mystic forge and the horrible recipe idea. I mean WHAT THE HELL? First of all getting a Legendary precursor as a drop is almost insanely rare but what's worse is that it's a total gamble if you don't want to grind, it's totally jackpot *Inser coins (aka 4 items)* and pull the lever.

To me ANet left out the challenge of hunting for an item in GW2, almost every "rare" skin is: get these items and go to mystic forge.

For all the things that I see wrong in GW2 and I disagree with about 70% of ANet's choices for GW2, I gotta say this time I agree the drops are abysmal to the point where I just open the merch box and sell everything.

I want to go do a dungeon where I don't have to feel "meh another day another 60-120 tokens" but Instead I want to say "hey there's a chance for cool skin 1234 from the final chest" let's go have a few shots at it.

Ok I think I'm pretty much well done with my rant about drops, I could go on about how poor and boring the game is in it's current state.

#22 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:58 AM

At least is fun they admitted their game's drop system is trashy. :D
From trashy to proper, oh, so long road.. :angel:

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 15 November 2012 - 02:58 AM.


#23 Mister Stygian

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:07 AM

I think champions should drop the unique exotics you can get from the forge at a rate similar to Green weapons were dropped by GW1 bosses. The precursors shouldn't be included but you could change the percentage of getting one by throwing 4 of these exotics in the forge to something reasonable-like 5-10%.   While you can get most of these for a few gold on Trading Post anyway, I would like to see a chance of an exotic drop from bosses and it seems like a good fit to me.

#24 Wifflebottom

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:16 AM

Loot drops in this game are terrible, I've never even equipped anything I've gotten from chests or looting usually it's a fairly common item or I am not able to use it. There really isn't any incentive to loot dungeon chests and that's a fairly big issue.

#25 Gerroh

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:24 AM

Jesus *.
If Kholer is "hard" my guild must be hardcore pro gamers.
We ran straight at him with none of us having previous experience with him and slaughtered him. We died a few times, sure, but it wasn't hard to catch on to "Kholer pulls arm back = time to dodge".

I never cease to be amazed by just how goddamn awful average players seem to be if they think dungeon bosses like Kholer are hard.

Edit: I know this thread is about something else, but why does anyone care that Anet said the loot sucks? You think they're not aware the loot from dumpsters--err--chests sucks?
Even with the garbage loot the dungeons are still worth it to me.


Edit again:

View PostMister Stygian, on 15 November 2012 - 03:07 AM, said:

I think champions should drop the unique exotics you can get from the forge at a rate similar to Green weapons were dropped by GW1 bosses. The precursors shouldn't be included but you could change the percentage of getting one by throwing 4 of these exotics in the forge to something reasonable-like 5-10%.   While you can get most of these for a few gold on Trading Post anyway, I would like to see a chance of an exotic drop from bosses and it seems like a good fit to me.

That is a terrible idea! What the hell.
Champions should give decent loot, sure, but dropping forge exotics is an awful idea. Those are meant to be between normal exotic and legendary, and difficult to acquire.

Edited by Gerroh, 15 November 2012 - 03:28 AM.


#26 Resolve

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:28 AM

Make chests drop Lodestones and unique skins.

#27 Mister Stygian

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:37 AM

Maybe you never played GW1, but you would have to kill a boss 50 times to get their green sometimes.  Personally, I would like to see more stuff from GW1 in GW2, and unique weapons from bosses wouldn't be a bad start.

#28 Illein

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:17 AM

600 hours in, yet to see an exotic drop.

Hilarious how others get a BOX OF X ARMOR. With 6 exotics in xD Makes me totally jelly.

#29 Swoopeh

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:29 AM

Glad to hear they're addressing the dungeon loot. I mainly run them because I actually enjoy them (most of the time anyway) and you get some karma, but it feels wrong never to get any upgrades from dungeons. Just the occasional exotic/rare item would be nice (for example on average 1 item of at least rare quality for a run so you get a glob). I don't mind that only the chest loot contains level specific loot and the drops are all dungeon level, just wish the chests contained something interesting once in a while :P

#30 lagrangeify

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 03:06 PM

Personally I'd just like to see a big hike in gear skin variety and a tweak in their drop rate chance. I'd happily do every champion or group DE I see in any zone if I knew there was at least a fair chance of a new unique skin drop. Heck, if those encounters only dropped specific mats needed to craft more unique gear I'd be more than happy to get stuck in.

As of now, the only incentive is taking part and getting some karma. That has to change, and I think it's one of the issues that's hurting the game more seriously than the devs anticipated. A lot of people who have complained about endgame probably had their backs up about the very flat sense of risk/reward that exists everywhere in the game.

I take this topic as a good sign that ANet are at least aware of what needs addressing. What we get out of it is another thing.




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