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Filling the lack of Endgame!


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#1 dryst

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:16 PM

So,
I think that there's a need for some kind of traditional endgame content as we've had in Guild Wars. I love Guild Wars 2 but I'm getting bored with the dungeons and that what arena net is calling the new kind of endgame. I like that they try to go a new way and try out new things, but there is no reason to not implement the traditional kind of endgame like Domain of Anguish, The Underwolrd or The Fissure of Woe in GW1, I dont say that the current endgame is bad, its just not my kind of endgame and there might be a lot of players who think similar.

So, I am talking about a difficult area with multible Quests (probably dynamic events) where you can actually fail and have to restart completely, and something that is actually difficult and tactic depending, because most of the dungeons are just hard if you dont know hot to do it, if you know how it is mostly very easy for example Kholer in AC. I mean no imbalanced 1-Hit-To-everything-uber-leet-boss but an actual challange which requires actual skill and tactic.

But that is not enough, they have to work on the reward system aswell. The current system is a good idea, BUT it takes you away the intention to do the dungeon again once you got your items because you can neither sell the weapons, armor or the dungeon trophys.
There are also no rare items that can come out of the chests that are worth anything.

So what i would change:

1. Implement Elite Areas:
  • UW/FoW Reward system with possibilty to Rare drops, for example precursors for legendarys or the other mystic forge exotics that are currently listet at "Mystic Forge/Other Items" at the wiki
  • OR: DoA Reward System: Sellable reward gems which you can trade for weapons (but actually sellable and hard to obtain)
  • Actually failable (currently if a quest inside a dungeon fails, you actually just repeat it until you do it)
  • Need for Skill & Tactic (for example: In GW1 DoA SC you needed a well thought through tactic and the skill to tank/bond, i know it wasnt hard but you needed experience)
  • Multible Quests in such areas (currently 4-5 per dungeon -> ~10 per Elite Area)
  • Unique weapon Skins dropping from elite areas end chests

2. Dungeon Rewards:
  • Reward the reward system should be reworked, I KNOW that the main thought is to show that YOU completed the dungeon with YOUR characters and show that off, but as I mentioned it takes you away the will to do it again when you got your gear
  • For example: make dungeon tokens/weapons&armor sellable or give us the possibility to trade it for something sellable, maybe the dungeon specific lodestones? ;) 100 = 1 core 250 = 1 lodestone
So what do you think about this? I mostly miss the elite areas and  a motivating reward system, rare drops, unique items, sellable tokens/gems etc.

#2 Sheepski

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:10 PM

My first thought is: "What lack of end-game?" because quite frankly I have no real issues with the current game, especially as content additions are obviously going to arrive, such as in gw1.

However, on topic of your suggestions:

1) I do hope and think they will introduce the elite areas, I guess they're either waiting for a while to slowly drip feed us content, or maybe there's some issues with balancing challenge/reward/mobs etc.

If I read properly your suggestion is basically to bring back the same type of elite content from Gw1, which I'd back completely.


2) Well I don't know about this.Too many things atm are monetised, in that things can be exchanged for gold, and I like the fact that you can only get items by doing a certain type of content. But adding some extra rewards, tonics, potions, trade-able runes, more skins of armour/weps or some type of consumable items would be good to make some money by doing dungeons.

Currently you are able to buy 4 items and put them in the forge, so there's some re-use for tokens... whether or not a random exotic item for 4 weapons etc is worth it or not..

Edited by Sheepski, 22 October 2012 - 10:18 PM.

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#3 dryst

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 09:17 PM

What do others think about this topic? I'd like to hear some more opinions ;)

#4 Miteshu

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:28 PM

1. I would like the Elite area's mob be balanced around at least 2 Exotic geared players. When I was severely undergeared in Orr, I was forced to party up with one other random person. It was really fun when we steamrolled together.

#5 Shamadamun

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:30 PM

I'm all up for the elite areas, I need a place to really test my mettle.

Not a fan of the idea of being able to sell dungeon items though. I feel like the market is already broken in alot of fronts, I feel that'd break it even more.

#6 Arewn

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:34 PM

Rather then elite zones, I'd prefer to see an "elite mode".
It could make use of the scaling system, and while active would cause much harsher down scaling, but would increase loot (amount, quality, etc.).
I don't like the idea of elite zones because the world is already huge, and moving more people into concentrated zone will make it emptier.

Alternatively, they could make the out-door dungeons more intricate and increase their difficulty sharply.

#7 actionjack

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:55 AM

I do like the concept of elite zone.  In some aspect, that is what WvW attempted to do, but it just lack enough "pretty" reward to get many people excited about it.

In that respect, I would like to see more "human elements" in such elite zone.  Not having any concrete ideas yet, but something along the line of Monster Play, open PvP or GvG, Roaming elite boss, survival items (food, water, magical thing that allow you to stay in the zone), things like that.

Might play more with this idea later.

#8 Baldur The Bold

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:01 AM

I was expecting the people who think Anet can do no wrong to collectively shout "Shields Up!".

:P

+1 for OP

#9 Asha2012

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:14 AM

View PostArewn, on 24 October 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

Rather then elite zones, I'd prefer to see an "elite mode".
It could make use of the scaling system, and while active would cause much harsher down scaling, but would increase loot (amount, quality, etc.).
I don't like the idea of elite zones because the world is already huge, and moving more people into concentrated zone will make it emptier.

Alternatively, they could make the out-door dungeons more intricate and increase their difficulty sharply.

I like this suggestion primarily because it addresses the issue of "where did everybody go?".  If difficulty was player-centric (with the reward being better drops) I think it would work.

It's an idea and a start.  I'm guessing Anet already has something in mind.  I also think we have not seen the end at all.  I think by the time Elona and Cantha come online (and I believe they will) we will see those elite areas for sure.

#10 Draycon

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:43 AM

Bring back the Underworld! It would be interesting ot see what changes have happened down there. I too would love to see elite missions back.

#11 Vayra86

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:51 AM

View PostAsha2012, on 25 October 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

I like this suggestion primarily because it addresses the issue of "where did everybody go?".  ...{}

This is a great suggestion.

Would it not be even better to fill up the existing zones with several 'red-taped' areas that are to be considered elite areas. This would provide the game world and players with a number of great advantages:

1. the zones in level brackets that become less populated over time get more attention from players of max level
2. the events in previously empty zones become doable again because there are more players in every zone, it is a small step to lend a hand somewhere in the same zone
3. the Elite areas could still provide special rewards that are instanced, providing a synergy between open world PvE and instanced PvE and making it rewarding for players of any level
4. adding in Elite areas in existing zones and seamlessly moving in and out of these areas adds to the general immersion and idea of a stronger force or threat in the area
5. the game world would become inherently more compact because there is more to do within the same space

...and then I thought of this:
6. World Events could trigger the existence or creation of an Elite area in a zone. For example, failing to defeat a dragon could spawn a dragon's nest for the coming hours or, better yet, this would have to be cleared at least once to allow the dragon respawn timer to activate.

Edited by Vayra86, 25 October 2012 - 10:52 AM.


#12 dryst

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 02:27 PM

1. I dont really like the idea of an open world elite area because everything gets easier with the more players are there. An Elite Area (instanced) like UW/FoW/DoA with 5-8 players would be perfect.

2. I didnt mean dungeon items had to be sellable but at least you should be able to do something with them, e.g. trade them for lodestones.

#13 Asha2012

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 05:31 PM

View PostVayra86, on 25 October 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

4. adding in Elite areas in existing zones and seamlessly moving in and out of these areas adds to the general immersion and idea of a stronger force or threat in the area

Yah like "in that cave lurks...."  That would be fun.  I would even like something similar to a SP challenge.  From a storyline perspective, the idea of a boss that respawns is stupid.  Either he was killed or he wasn't.  What is this respawning crap.  I like how the dragon bosses are not killed but simply driven away.  Why not have Sir Lancelot on a bridge daring you to knock him off his horse.  That way the idea of going back again and again to take him down makes sense.

Heck, with content adds, Anet could even give the foe(s) new skills, more health or what have you.  And of course they would be scalable.  Ooh, that way you could try taking on an elite solo (which should be near impossible) if you can't find any help.

These sound like simple ideas but this is the first persistent world MMORPG I've played.  GW1 was all instanced so it was easier to control how added content worked I would imagine.

#14 Captain Bulldozer

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 05:42 PM

Sounds good to me.  While I like GW2 a lot, I think there are several departures from the GW1 roots (these two included) that would be great introductions to the game.

#15 Miragee

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:55 PM

View PostCaptain Bulldozer, on 25 October 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Sounds good to me.  While I like GW2 a lot, I think there are several departures from the GW1 roots (these two included) that would be great introductions to the game.

This!

I like the idea of the OP very much. And there are several other good ideas here. Elite Areas like the UW with a small group of 5-8 players with a lot of quest (fail=new start), with dungeon specific rare drops would be awesome. I also like the idea of uninstanced elite area in lowerlevel maps where meta events grasp into each other. That would be pretty cool.

#16 Aetou

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:05 AM

I like the general idea of more, harder 80 zones but I'm not sure how you'd prevent them from just becoming easy zerg farm fests unless they were actually instances for a limited number of players (5 man group probably, unless they decide that adding Raids is actually a good idea which I doubt they will.)  So in effect what we'd really be talking about is new, explorable dungeons that are more freeform than the current linear ones.

With regards to dungeon tokens being tradable I think it is a bad idea BUT would fully support the addition of some tradable items to the dungeon vendors.  Lodestones seem like a logical choice, while I'd also have no issue with them making the Runes and Sigils no longer Soulbound.

#17 matsif

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:39 AM

-return 8 man group elite areas, that you have to pay to get into and have a series of quests you have to complete to be rewarded with an end chest reward and token system like dungeons have for weapons/armor.  make them UW/FoW difficulty level, and possibly those areas themselves.

-more level 60-80 areas in general.  right now we have mt. maelstrom, frostgorge, parts of sparkfly fen, the one area in ascalon (can't remember name right now because I never go there), and Orr as areas of any reasonable level for max level characters.

-return 12 man elite missions like Urgoz/The Deep.  Those 2 areas were very well designed and interesting, and nothing like them were ever implemented in GW1 ever again.  12 man party I thought was fun and the splitting the group had to do in The Deep made for interesting party tactics.

-Create a "hero survival" instance event, where mobs of risen/destroyers/dredge/whatever constantly attack you, and the goal is for your party to live as long as you can, earning loot from the mobs and some sort of token system or points system for other rewards.  There would be no end to the event as long as your party was alive and wanted to keep going, event gets progressively harder as you go, etc.

#18 Miteshu

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 02:38 PM

I would like for more mini-dungeons instead of raids. These mini-dungeons allows limitless amount of people and they aren't instanced. They should have the same gameplay as raids or the god's temple.

#19 Larsen

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 08:41 AM

View Postdryst, on 24 October 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

What do others think about this topic? I'd like to hear some more opinions ;)

I think the addition of an endgame (meaning productive, meaningful levelcap activities) is gravely urgent. The complaints about its absence are becoming more and more frequent, increasingly vocal, and rather insistent. I think that's fully justified since this game does lack diversity in its levelcap activities. I'm going to discount things like exploration and collecting pets since that frankly doesn't qualify as content and because the people who think that's enough are the kinds of players who are satisfied with practically anything. They don't set the standard, and it's fair to say that sightseeing and cosmetic/collectible rewards do not suffice to satisfy a broad enough range of players. As such, there need to be more things to play for at level 80. There's currently almost nothing -- it takes maybe a couple of weeks to get exotic gear if you play with any kind of regularity, and then there are literally no more progression goals in the game. That's it. You can then choose to PvP, but the PvP is going to be pretty barebones for a very long time as this takes ages to evolve. The dungeons are lackluster and there's no reason to keep doing them, the personal questline is both short and frankly very poor, and players can't be expected to enjoy doing automated events for the sheer joy of the gameplay. That's what needs to change -- this game needs meaningful goals and tangible character growth beyond level 80 and the very shallow itemization. Personally, I think the solution is 10-man instanced content with gear rewards that can only be used in PvE, perhaps even just in those very instances. As it stands, I feel like ANet designed some excellent gameplay mechanics and systems but provided no reasons to put them to use.

#20 Raagar Deathclaw

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:06 PM

I like the idea of an elite area however orr already implements dynamic events that can be failed, other than that i like the idea




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