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"Ultra Guardian" Support Guide - PvE & WvWvW


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#31 Senatic

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:40 PM

Respectfully, I gotta disagree on the healing power. With the right items your empower can be doing 3-4k heals. It is incredibly powerful, I would sacrifice some hp for it any day, what does it matter if you have a low health pool when you can heal yourself up almost instantly without even using your self heal?

With my current setup (power/toughness/healing power) of armor and accessories I have about 14k hp and around 2800 armor. Sure, the HP pool is pretty small, but whatever damage I take I simply use one skill and it's back up. I don't really ever die in dungeons and I'm able to actually do some real healing.

Bottom line, the healing power more then doubles your heals putting them just below the level of your self heal, it's worth it. I really don't think 4k extra health is worth it when I can heal that same amount of hp with one empower.

You can still get a lot of boon duration as well with the runes you suggested and the right traits, getting the best of both worlds. That is how I run my guardian anyway.

Other then that very good guide for someone looking to understand the essentials of a guardians job.

5/5

Edited by Senatic, 16 November 2012 - 02:07 PM.


#32 Elysen

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 07:42 PM

View PostSenatic, on 16 November 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

... what does it matter if you have a low health pool when you can heal yourself up almost instantly without even using your self heal?...

Because inevitably you will be smacked a big'un by an enemy, or knocked down just after Stability was removed. You can't heal when you're dead.

Great guide, having much fun playing around with it. I must say I prefer to use Hammer/Staff instead of a sceptre/focus as the fianl skill of the default attack chain on the Hammer triggers a symbol.

#33 Ojimaru

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:49 AM

The choice between majoring in Shouts or Consecration really depends on the role you're usually in. If you're in a dedicated 5-man roaming party, Shouts are much more effective. On the other hand, the effectiveness of Shouts greatly diminishes when you become part of a zerg due to the 5-player limit (barring Save Yourselves). In the latter, Consecrations such as Purging Flames and Wall of Reflection has a much bigger contribution.

Also, if you tend to build tanky (i.e. Soldier's, Knight's or Valkyrie's), you can and - in my opinion - should be in front of a stand-off. You become a juicy target that's both hard to take down and still deal damage to unlimited targets thanks to Retaliation (something most here seem to overlook).

Finally, I'm wondering if somebody can help me verify that the +Might Duration Runes aren't stacking as they should. I have 3 sets of +20% and two sets seem to not work.

#34 CrystallineDIVA

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 07:15 AM

View PostOjimaru, on 11 December 2012 - 12:49 AM, said:


Finally, I'm wondering if somebody can help me verify that the +Might Duration Runes aren't stacking as they should. I have 3 sets of +20% and two sets seem to not work.

If you are referring to staff #4's might duration: This skill is bugged and displays a wrong duration for might. It has been reported many times but Anet did not yet change it properly.

#35 MacchiCross

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:02 PM

Right now i'm using this:
http://en.gw2skills....ajzLpNrNGNs/Y B

Focusing Power/Toughness/Healing Power. It's working pretty well :P

#36 VralGrymfang

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:12 PM

Thank you so much for this guide.  It is very well written and clearly stated.  I just finished making this build, with some minor changes to the traits hexes you listed.  Looking it over on my character, I noticed a spot that could be improved, ever so slightly.  You make no mention of the breathing apparatus, which I wouldn't think too much about, except it can hold a rune, which is very significant.  Looking it over, I would suggest a 3rd Major rune of Sanctuary, which gives a Vit boost, over the 3rd in the other rune lines, which give a healing boost.

Also, I would suggest you Edit your guide and number the Trait Hexes you use so it is easier to read.

#37 Im Legion

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:47 PM

View PostVralGrymfang, on 02 January 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

Thank you so much for this guide.  It is very well written and clearly stated.  I just finished making this build, with some minor changes to the traits hexes you listed.  Looking it over on my character, I noticed a spot that could be improved, ever so slightly.  You make no mention of the breathing apparatus, which I wouldn't think too much about, except it can hold a rune, which is very significant.  Looking it over, I would suggest a 3rd Major rune of Sanctuary, which gives a Vit boost, over the 3rd in the other rune lines, which give a healing boost.

Also, I would suggest you Edit your guide and number the Trait Hexes you use so it is easier to read.

You should place the same rune in your breathing aparatus as you normally have in your helmet, since you only get the benefits of the one in your breathing aparatus while under water.

#38 Aloraiel

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 09:43 AM

Hello and Well Met!

I've just finished leveling my guardian to 80 and am looking for a strong supportive build just like this. With this being an older thread AND seeing your recent 5/6/13 update to the other "Ultra Guardian" build you've created, I am wondering if this build is still viable or if you've abandon it in favor of the other?

If that is not the case, are there any updates you would make to this build that would increase its potency? I've tried building my own but, well, lets just say the results were less than disastrous and I found myself dead, humiliated and waiting for the crows to finish me off, haha.

Thank you in advance,

Aloraiel

#39 Nightcr4wler2

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 03:18 AM

Ultramatum, I know this post has been here and been quiet for a while, but I was going back through it again and wanted to say thank you for posting this way back when. When I was first building my support guardian well over a year ago, I stumbled across this post, and it became the bedrock of my build. Especially regarding rune-based boon duration and the use of consecrations, this stuff is gold, and to this day, my support guardian is by far my favorite character—and my friends' favorite, because the boon output is like steroids for everyone in the party :).

The only thing I've done in my build that's notably different from your design here is something I also seldom see other support guardians do: put points into Radiance to get Renewed Justice. It seemed like a no-brainer to me, and I've never been able to get myself to go without it because it has the capacity to totally turn the tide in a fight against large numbers of enemies. Particularly when used in combination with AoE weapons, like hammer and staff, it's magic! Every time an enemy you've tagged falls, Virtue of Justice is re-upped, supplying another dose of might and fire damage to everyone in the party. I've been in fights where I've tagged so many targets that once they start falling, I can't hit VoJ fast enough to keep up with the renewals. Toss in some superior sigils of stamina, and you're hitting your party with dodge-heals on ever kill as well. It's fantastic in big-group fights.

I'd also chime in with the people here who've championed the use of the hammer in place of any one-handed weapon-sets—at least in PvE. I've always loved its steady stream of protection that lets you get up in the enemy's face and add survivability to your frontline teammates better than any healing could. As importantly, though, when you're running with consecrations, the hammer's blast finisher turns them into repeated boon sources, enabling you to throw around area retaliation and might like they're candy. People can say you need to use shouts to really give good boon coverage, but they're wrong. If you understand symbols, consecrations, and combo fields, you can easily feed your party boons without end, on both your hammer and your staff.

Regardless of the couple of things I do differently, your work here is fantastic, and my guardian wouldn't be half as helpful to parties—or half as fun to play!—as he is if I hadn't found this. Thank you!

#40 Crashproof

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 01:47 PM

View PostNightcr4wler2, on 01 January 2014 - 03:18 AM, said:

The only thing I've done in my build that's notably different from your design here is something I also seldom see other support guardians do: put points into Radiance to get Renewed Justice.

View PostNightcr4wler2, on 01 January 2014 - 03:18 AM, said:

I'd also chime in with the people here who've championed the use of the hammer in place of any one-handed weapon-sets—at least in PvE.

I'm curious how your build looks?  I realize the timing is weird here because they're literally changing the trait system and a lot of other stuff today, but I've been enjoying hammer/staff for leveling and I'm convinced Renewed Justice is golden.  (I leveled a guardian to 80 over a year ago, just got back into the game again for the last week.)

To get your 15 Radiance, are you pulling it out of Virtues, or 10 from Valor and 5 from Virtues, or what?

#41 ZCKS

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:33 PM

Healing power tends to not be much use in PVE as the mobs tend to hit hard enough that you cant make up for stupidity & keep people alive anyway.

That being said it does work decently in SPvP & small scale WvW.

Think there may be allot more people using bunker/support guardians with the 15th patch.
The new trait in valor is really the best one we got & could be insane for group play if worked with rune of the monk, shelter, retreat, renewed focus, the weapon focus, mace etc.... & pure of heart.

#42 Nightcr4wler2

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 09:13 PM

View PostCrashproof, on 15 April 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

I'm curious how your build looks?  I realize the timing is weird here because they're literally changing the trait system and a lot of other stuff today, but I've been enjoying hammer/staff for leveling and I'm convinced Renewed Justice is golden.  (I leveled a guardian to 80 over a year ago, just got back into the game again for the last week.)

To get your 15 Radiance, are you pulling it out of Virtues, or 10 from Valor and 5 from Virtues, or what?

Oops, sorry Crashproof. I totally didn't see that anyone had responded to my comment over a year ago. Compared to the build that started this thread, I take traits out of Valor and Virtues and move them to Radiance, making it a 0 15 0 30 25 build. Sure, I have make up the Toughness elsewhere, and I don't get a Grandmaster Virtues trait, but the endless supply of fire and might, as well as the boost to crit chance, is worth it in my opinion.

#43 Nightcr4wler2

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 06:35 AM

Oh, that's right. I almost forgot. The other benefit of the Radiance line is Justice is Blind. Not only are you building might for the party and lighting targets ablaze every time an enemy falls, but you're also throwing an area blind, saving you and your party from being hit by the next incoming attack. So, as long as enemies continue to drop, you remain, for all intents and purposes, super-powered.

#44 Aloraiel

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 07:36 PM

View PostNightcr4wler2, on 19 February 2015 - 09:13 PM, said:

Compared to the build that started this thread, I take traits out of Valor and Virtues and move them to Radiance, making it a 0 15 0 30 25 build.

So basically your build is exactly like the OPs other than moving traits from Valor and Virtues and placing them into Radiance? You kept the same sigils, armor, runes, skills, traits etc? Do you think following the OPs guide on the first page is still viable?

I really liked the look of the OPs build and had replied to this topic some time ago but, alas, the OP seems to have abandoned this thread for whatever reason and my questions were never answered. So imagine my delight when the thread was revived! After reading your posts, I'm want to take the dust off my guardian and redo everything! Your reviving this thread has revived my interest in my guardian!

Edited by Aloraiel, 25 February 2015 - 08:13 PM.


#45 Nightcr4wler2

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 06:51 AM

That's awesome, Aloraiel. Glad you're back to guardian-ing!

It's actually good that you asked to clarify how close my build really is to OP's, because there are some other subtle differences, generally due to the fact that updates to GW2 since the original post have altered what you can actually do with his build. You can see most of my build here. I say most because I couldn't include the upgrade slots on my back piece and pendant, which are platinum dubloons (apparently not an option with this editor).

The primary differences are these:
  • Different rune set. One update to the game changed the way runes worked, and it made OP's holy-trinity set no longer get the boon-duration boost it was designed to. I had to switch to completing a single kind of rune, so water was the choice, as it gave to most boon-duration and a couple of good little healing benefits.
  • Sentinel armor instead of Soldier. That choice was strictly based on accessiblity. Sentinel armor came out after OP's post, it has similar stats as soldier, and it was a lot easier to get.
  • Magi trinkets. The choice here did two things, giving me a boost to precision, so that all the things I have on critical hits proc more often (for a defensive guardian, Minkus has a pretty high critical-hit rate), and a boost to healing power, since I have several automatic outbound heals.
  • Signet of Resolve. Though OP's build says to use Healing Breeze, I opted for this because the automatic condition-cleanse is very helpful. In my experience, conditions are the great bane of a guardian, especially one focused on buffing the party.
  • Signet of Judgement. The weakness effect of this is a nice-to-have. I really keep it for the 10% damage reduction at all times. Stacked with the tons of protection the hammer throws, Minkus (my guardian) can take a serious beating.
  • Signet Mastery. Since I had points to spend in Radiance, this just made sense, making me able to heal myself 20% more often in a fix.
  • Empowering Might. I had a hard time giving up Writ of the Merciful at first, but this trait was just too good, especially for a defensive guardian who doesn't output a lot of base damage, this, alongside my other might-delivery mechanisms, helps a lot. And because it gives might to my whole party, everybody wins.
Now, before I go pontificating, I want to be the first to say that I'm no pro player. I took a lot of input from all over the internet to build a support guardian, then I looked at how I played, and I build something accordingly. If it works for you too, great. If not, that's totally fine; this is not the end-all-be-all, and I'm sure you can find holes in my plan. ;)

That said, I tried to make a build that specializes at boosting a party when they're horribly outnumbered, and I think that's what I've accomplished. There are several things that take effect on critical hits, all hits, and enemy deaths, and they all help the party, not just the guardian. While this guardian doesn't do big burst damage, almost every attack is AoE, so you have the capacity to hit virtually every target in the area, sometimes several times a second. That means lots of hits, lots of criticals, and—of course—lots of kills, because whenever anyone else kills a target you've hit, you get credit for it. All that, on top of the benefits from the staff and hammer that OP talks about (oh, how great that 4sec blast-finisher on the hammer is!), and you've got, in my opinion, the most helpful guardian for an all-hell-broke-loose situation. I won't say the same for big fights against, say, a single champion, but that's fine; every build has a strength and a weakness.

So, that's the overview of my build. I hope it helps, and I'd be happy to talk through anything else you like!

#46 Aloraiel

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 09:41 PM

First of all, thank you so much for the detailed reply. It is so nice to see the information you've put forth here so that I, and others, can refer back to this post with ease.

I personally LOVE when all hell breaks loose! It is so much more fun when everything gets chaotic and I'm still standing when it's over :D That said, your build looks like it will accomplish just what I'm hoping to achieve and then some. After reading over your post and before I start to put the build together, the only question I have at the moment is how do I go about getting Sentinel's armor? I can't seem to see where to buy it and it is sure pricy on the TP. Is there a karma or dungeon vendor that sells it?

#47 Nightcr4wler2

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 03:29 AM

Where you can get Sentinel armor isn't something I'm really familiar with, and I'm sorry to hear it's so pricy on the TP. If I remember correctly, when I got my armor, that prefix had just been added, and people weren't too stoked on it, so there were a lot of sentinel insignias on the TP that people had gotten as drops (because you can't craft those). I had originally planned to run Ascolonian Catacombs about a hundred times to get the soldier gear (which you can certainly do), but when I found those insignias, I opted for the faster route, using them to craft the similar sentinel gear. At the end of the day, both sets work just fine, and there are different ways to acquire them both: http://wiki.guildwar...sition_by_stat. (Sorry for the link. I'm on my phone.)

By the way, when I say I was going to run AC a hundred times, I am exaggerating. I don't know what the real number is, but it was daunting to me.

Edited by Nightcr4wler2, 27 February 2015 - 03:27 AM.


#48 Aloraiel

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 04:09 PM

Hello! And thank you again for your reply!

Lucky for me I have run AC about one hundred times and had enough AC tokens to purchase the armor. About the only change I made to the build was to add my ascended cleric's staff in place of the Sentinel's staff. Since I run fractals, need the agony resist and already had the ascended cleric's staff from my previous build, I hated to have it go to waste and incorporated it into your build (plus ascended weapons takes so long to make). I am in process of making an ascended Sentinel's hammer so I'll be spot on with that at least.

In the mean time, I'm using an exotic hammer and having a blast running around with your build!!

Thanks again,

Aloraiel

Edited by Aloraiel, 01 March 2015 - 04:11 PM.


#49 Nightcr4wler2

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 09:30 PM

Oh yeah, if you have ascended stuff, do it! And really, you can use any gear you  like. Personally, I actually use knight's weapons. I like the added precision for the crit  chance, but whatever works for you. If you come  up with other enhancements, let me know. Enjoy!

#50 Age

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 12:03 AM

This is how I got my traits set up and I have both 13 in zeal and radiance.

http://gw2skills.net...34EtODOhFtyAoBA

What do you think and I ma still using sceptor and sword.

#51 Nikephoros

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 10:29 AM

Radiant Retaliation is an awful trait.  You should be using Right Hand Strength, especially since you have sword and scepter.

Revenge of the Fallen?  My god no.  Fiery Wrath is the best choice possible.

#52 Age

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 09:45 PM

What is wrong with them tho. and already got fiery wrath in first slot?

#53 OChunx

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 10:11 PM

View PostAge, on 03 March 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

What is wrong with them tho. and already got fiery wrath in first slot?

Revenge of the Fallen creates a moral hazard problem. You never want to be downed, so why make it better for you to be downed and create that mindset that it's less bad? In essence, it's a wasted trait that isn't utilized most of the time for skilled players that don't get downed, creates bad incentives to be downed, and has a negligible effect even when you are downed.  

As for Radiant Retaliation, retaliation does very little damage overall and given the sources of damage for guardians, you would presumably have very little condition damage as well. I'm assuming the entire point of you taking this trait is to increase your damage, but let the math stand that Right Hand Strength provides magnitudes more damage than the poor scaling of retaliation's already poor base damage.

Finally, it should be stated that condition damage simply doesn't scale well on guardian because guardian has very little outlets to apply condition damage (no bleeds, no poison, no torment, no confusion). Because burning doesn't stack in intensity, the damage that burning can apply is extremely limited. Trading off going power for condition damage has no upsides because you aren't any safer either, you simply do less damage. So I would recommend changing both traits in the Virtues line as well.




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